Living Car Free - How do you avoid mooching all the time?

I've got a brother-in-law that doesn't have a cell phone out of principle, I guess. Whenever we go down to see him, he asks to borrow our phones to call people. It doesn't bother me because it's not an inconvenience to me. But it would be an inconvenience to a car owner to loan it out once a week to a friend that only owned a bike. For you guys that don't own a vehicle other than a bike, how does this work? Do you have to borrow other people's cars a lot?

Ben

Are you serious?

I think he's serious. Can I borrow your car?

Yes its a serious question.

Just looking at the area I live and the places I have to go on a daily basis, I don't think I could get by without a car. I'd have to ask friends if I could use theirs all the time. It'd be a major inconvenience to me and to them. Do you guys just live in mostly bike friendly areas or do you just live right next door to the office? Or do you have to borrow vehicles all the time?

During the 6 or so years I was carfree in Winnipeg, I never borrowed a vehicle.

To get to the start of events that were some distance away, I might see if I could carpool ... if carpooling was not an option, I rented a car.

To get large pieces of furnishings home (I was redoing my apartment at the time), I might make arrangements with friends where I'd take them out for coffee or dinner or whatever if they helped me transport whatever it was ... but I think that only happened 3 or 4 times in all those years, the rest of the time I made arrrangements with the company to have whatever it was delivered ... or I carried it home on the bus or by taxi.

Other than that, I saw no need to use a motorized vehicle.

Personally, I'd not want to borrow other people's cars.

I live in a place where it's easy to be car free. That was no accident, by the way, it was chosen precisely because it's easy to be car free.

What you can do right now is learn how to be less dependent on cars. Major life choices have big impacts on car dependency. You may not be in a position right now to make big changes, but you can figure out what's involved. You might get a chance to make new choices in the future.

I never, EVER borrow cars. I've been coaxed into driving someone else's car occasionally, but only as a favor to THEM.

Bike, bus, feet. I have a trailer than can haul the largest loads that I need to haul... anything larger and I'm getting it for someone else, not me, so it's THEIR problem how to get it home.

Yes its a serious question.

Just looking at the area I live and the places I have to go on a daily basis, I don't think I could get by without a car. I'd have to ask friends if I could use theirs all the time. It'd be a major inconvenience to me and to them. Do you guys just live in mostly bike friendly areas or do you just live right next door to the office? Or do you have to borrow vehicles all the time?

I borrowed a friend's truck about 2 years ago to relocate, but that was his idea, not mine. Otherwise, I've never borrowed a car. You just learn how to take care of business. It's really no big deal to live without a car.

BTW, I live in a typical American city that happens to contain two large auto assembly plants. I've never heard it described as bike-friendly.

So if someone borrows a car (or cell phone), they're labeled as a moocher? :lol:

i ain't even got a driver's license, so borrowing a car isn't an option for me. like someone else said: bike, bus, feet.

living in seattle, there's not really a need for a car (for me). plenty of people that live right next to me don't see it this way, but being car free is about lifestyle change too.

i work ~15 miles outside of seattle, and either bus or bike there. sure a car would be more convenient, but i'm all for sacrificing time like that for the greater good.

that said, i get rides from people more often than i'd like to admit (i prefer the bus, but having our own music, cigarettes, etc, is nice too, and at least we're carpooling!)

edit: the rides i do 'mooch' are when we're both heading to the same spot, not "can you take me here?"

Yes its a serious question.

Just looking at the area I live and the places I have to go on a daily basis, I don't think I could get by without a car. I'd have to ask friends if I could use theirs all the time. It'd be a major inconvenience to me and to them. Do you guys just live in mostly bike friendly areas or do you just live right next door to the office? Or do you have to borrow vehicles all the time?

I'm curious as to what you would be borrowing a car to do?
* Get to work?
* Go to the grocery story?
* Spend a weekend in a neighboring city?

Most folks around here have figured out how to get by without a car for these things...

Most folks around here have figured out how to get by without a car for these things...

reminds me of a (bad) joke i made up:

Q: "how does a car free person do a road trip/buy that big TV/pick someone up from the airport?"

A: "they don't."

So if someone borrows a car (or cell phone), they're labeled as a moocher? :lol:

Haha, sorry guys, not trying to say anybody here's guilty of "mooching":D

Just wondering how you guys get by with only a bike. Like I said, I'm not sure I could do it. I'm commuting to two colleges and working. The office is about 12-13 miles away plus I don't go home directly after. I hit the bus at a park and ride off the interstate and go up to Blacksburg. Not sure its safe (and pretty sure its illegal) to ride 10 miles of interstate on the bike.

But I do also go to a community college that's a couple of miles away and was actually planning my first bike commute there tomorrow.

Just wondering how you guys get by with only a bike. Like I said, I'm not sure I could do it. I'm commuting to two colleges and working. The office is about 12-13 miles away plus I don't go home directly after. I hit the bus at a park and ride off the interstate and go up to Blacksburg. Not sure its safe (and pretty sure its illegal) to ride 10 miles of interstate on the bike.

But I do also go to a community college that's a couple of miles away and was actually planning my first bike commute there tomorrow.

1. 12-13 miles is a short commute.

2. There are usually other routes out there besides the interstate ... you just don't know about them yet because the interstate is the quickest and easiest way with your car. Get a decent map and start exploring.

3. I, on the other hand, need to use a car these days because my commute to college is 300 kms round trip.

Haha, sorry guys, not trying to say anybody here's guilty of "mooching":D

Just wondering how you guys get by with only a bike. Like I said, I'm not sure I could do it. I'm commuting to two colleges and working. The office is about 12-13 miles away plus I don't go home directly after. I hit the bus at a park and ride off the interstate and go up to Blacksburg. Not sure its safe (and pretty sure its illegal) to ride 10 miles of interstate on the bike.

But I do also go to a community college that's a couple of miles away and was actually planning my first bike commute there tomorrow.

Well, if you enjoy riding a bike, and if you're smart enough to type and go to college, I imagine you could figure out this carfree stuff pretty easily.

The hardest part is just getting the first idea to do it.

The simple truth is, car free won't work for everyone at this point in time. If you don't think you could pull it off currently, then don't worry about it. There's no way I could have done it when I had my previous job. Some day you may be in a position to be car free, and in the mean time you can simply try to use your bike when you can, and using your car when you must. We have many members here who are in the same boat as you (I used to be one of them!)

That being said, I avoid any kind of mooching at all cost. I've accepted rides from my parents once or twice, but that had more to do with spending time with them than needing a ride. And my dad let me borrow his truck back in March to go to a wedding several hundred miles away, but I only took it because he insisted. I had planned to rent a car. And of course, I filled his tank up for him before returning it. BTW, it cost me just under $100 to fill it up! :twitchy:

1. 12-13 miles is a short commute.

2. There are usually other routes out there besides the interstate ... you just don't know about them yet because the interstate is the quickest and easiest way with your car. Get a decent map and start exploring.

3. I, on the other hand, need to use a car these days because my commute to college is 300 kms round trip.

OP is in the mountains of VA... quite often there aren't any viable alternate routes, they close off the old routes and run them concurrent with the interstates; or they go way out of the way.

Aaron:)

I went nine years without borrowing, renting or mooching a car.

Then this past June I rode with a guy to a weekend camping/cycling thing and discovered to my horror I'd left my shoes at home. Ratty old sneakers (my toes poke through) and SPD pedals didn't sound like a good combo for a century and two half-centuries over three days.

My ride tossed me his keys and said, "You'd better go back and get them." I drove two hours each way just to get my stupid shoes.

Then I hit a deer three miles outside of camp. Worse, Bambi's buddy got pissed and head-butted the trunk. I still don't think he believes me that I didn't back into anything.

BTW, I don't consider sharing a ride to be the same as mooching one. Especially not when I pay for all gas and tolls in both directions.

I do have a friend who drops by once or twice a year on her way to Sam's Club. I'll admit to mooching off her membership, but she offers the ride. And I buy gas and lunch.

When the car sells, I'm lucky.

Car share is up the street, bus line is 500 ft away and my sister is leaving for college in a year. If I "need" a car, I could borrow hers.

Just wondering how you guys get by with only a bike. Like I said, I'm not sure I could do it. I'm commuting to two colleges and working. The office is about 12-13 miles away plus I don't go home directly after. I hit the bus at a park and ride off the interstate and go up to Blacksburg. Not sure its safe (and pretty sure its illegal) to ride 10 miles of interstate on the bike.

But I do also go to a community college that's a couple of miles away and was actually planning my first bike commute there tomorrow.
That's a very good start! Car free is a tough nut to crack. Even car light can be quite challenging.

I tend not to mooch, cell phones or cars. I rent a car if I need it. And admittedly, when our office was breaking up, I did allow a co-worker to take some of my office stuff to my home so that I could continue to support the product from there. But then again, I also threw my heavy-duty hand truck into use when we moved all the office stuff into a storage unit. So it's give and take, as is all of life.

And recently, I shared a ride to a town 30 miles away to attend a Python language conference. My contribution, food and the fact that I had discovered the conference. My ride won a book at the conference which put him ahead cost wise. ;)

The point is the attitude. You make sure that you are giving not mooching. It's part of the independent feel of being car-free.

But with three different locations you need to hit regularly, I hope you are central to them. In L.A. as a student, I had a 5 mile commute to work and a 10 mile commute to school. But that was during the first gas crisis. I was the only student with perfect attendence. No gas, no problem. :) But for my daily chores like grocery, christmas shopping, library etc. I have no problem pedaling.

You are right that planning helps. Currently my location is planned and works well. I live close to all the major services I need and I was only a 3 mile ride from work. As I am unemployed with a fresh lease on my apartment, we will have to see how that works itself out in the future.

Good luck with your efforts. Car-free is a goal, not an imperative. As far as you can get towards that goal is good.

Besides, I have a station wagon!

http://www.pointhappy.com/gcf/Bike&Trailer2.jpg

Yes its a serious question.

Just looking at the area I live and the places I have to go on a daily basis, I don't think I could get by without a car. I'd have to ask friends if I could use theirs all the time. It'd be a major inconvenience to me and to them. Do you guys just live in mostly bike friendly areas or do you just live right next door to the office? Or do you have to borrow vehicles all the time?

I dunno, I think you're missing the point.

Living car free means living CAR FREE

Not just living without your car.

If you can get by using an occasional car share service, or rarely, cadging a ride, well, you're gettin' close.

Just getting rid of your vehicle, then borrowing other peoples to do the same things, is missing the point entirely.

Personally, I do 35-40 km every day, in all weathers, mostly on paths, but mix it up in traffic too. About once a month i get a delivery in my neighborhood, and use that to do heavy/bulk shopping. ( Kitty Litter etc ) If it's not gonna work for you at this time, so be it.

OP is in the mountains of VA... quite often there aren't any viable alternate routes, they close off the old routes and run them concurrent with the interstates; or they go way out of the way.

Aaron:)

You're probably right, but I'm sure we've all known people who said they couldn't get from point A to point B because there's no good bike route. Often the reality is that they're so used to "thinking like a car" that they're unaware of alternate routes. Once you start thinking like a bike, the world opens up with all kinds of wonderful new routes.

(As an illustration, here's a little alternate route (http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Lansing-south-to-MSU-via-Scott-Woods) I posted on bikely.com.)

You're probably right, but I'm sure we've all known people who said they couldn't get from point A to point B because there's no good bike route. Often the reality is that they're so used to "thinking like a car" that they're unaware of alternate routes. Once you start thinking like a bike, the world opens up with all kinds of wonderful new routes.



+1

If they "close off the old routes and run them concurrent with the interstates" that says to me that the old road still exist ... maybe not to "car" (motorized vehicle) traffic ... but possibly to bicycle and pedestrian traffic.

On a bicycle, we can cut down alleyways, use bits of MUPs for shortcuts between residential roads, etc. etc. Also some places have bicycle/pedestrian bridges which provide us with convenient shortcuts ... but cars are not allowed on these bridges so a car driver might forget about them.

+1

If they "close off the old routes and run them concurrent with the interstates" that says to me that the old road still exist ... maybe not to "car" (motorized vehicle) traffic ... but possibly to bicycle and pedestrian traffic.

On a bicycle, we can cut down alleyways, use bits of MUPs for shortcuts between residential roads, etc. etc. Also some places have bicycle/pedestrian bridges which provide us with convenient shortcuts ... but cars are not allowed on these bridges so a car driver might forget about them.

Yes, my commute includes about 1km of tracks through a bit of woodland, quite rideable even with road tires.

One way streets with low traffic are delightful on a bicycle.

I think the OP is confusing "car free" with "car OWNERSHIP free".

For you guys that don't own a vehicle other than a bike, how does this work? Do you have to borrow other people's cars a lot?

Ben
Here's how it works. I don't borrow people's cars.

Funny thing is some of my car dependent friends ask me to do errands on my bike for them, or ask me to drive them in the city. Right now several car dependent friends owe me trips. Some suburban friends drive into the city, call me on their cell phones and ask me to come out and park their cars for them. Yes, people who live in the DC suburbs don't know how to parallel park.

Renting is not lower down on the ethical scale than borrowing or mooching. The only difference is in whose money is paying for the vehicle. Refusing to rent but being okay with mooching is like refusing to buy a fur coat, but wearing a fur coat if someone else bought it for you. Either way, it means money is going into the industry. Suck up your pride, and if you need a car once in a while, get a driver's license and rent.

If you can't afford to rent or can't get a license for one reason or another, there are ways to borrow that aren't as imposing or moochy. I've occasionally put out a notice on my Facebook or LiveJournal, telling my friends that I need a vehicle and driver on such-and-such a date to pick up some furniture, and I'll pay for gas and buy them dinner. I'm offering something in return but it's still cheaper than renting. I'm not approaching one person in particular and wheedling a favour out of them, I'm giving people a chance to volunteer if they feel they can. It takes the pressure off them and doesn't make me look like I'm trying to take advantage of people.

reminds me of a (bad) joke i made up:

Q: "how does a car free person do a road trip/buy that big TV/pick someone up from the airport?"

A: "they don't."

A: Do it by bike/bus/train or rent... delivery is available for most anything if you take the time to look. (Our furniture a few years ago cost me $30 to have delivered by a third party company) ... Pick someone up? There is bus and shuttle service from the airport... will bring them right to my door. ;)

Pick someone up? There is bus and shuttle service from the airport... will bring them right to my door. ;)

There's something I've done -- I've met people at the airport and ridden back with them on public transit, helping carry their luggage so that they didn't have to shell out $40 for a cab.

Yes, people who live in the DC suburbs don't know how to parallel park.

At the café around the corner, that's how we entertain ourselves in the fair weather--watching suburban people try to parallel park.

A: Do it by bike/bus/train or rent... delivery is available for most anything if you take the time to look. (Our furniture a few years ago cost me $30 to have delivered by a third party company) ... Pick someone up? There is bus and shuttle service from the airport... will bring them right to my door. ;)

+1

I managed to do road trips, pick up large items, and get to and from the airport for 6 years when I did not own a car ... all without borrowing a car.

I belong to Zipcar and use about $125 a year total in service from them. With the $50 membership fee, that works out to about 10 hours of rentals. It's totally worth it. Beyond that, my mother lives in the same city and has a beater that she pays a fortune to garage (many times what it's worth every year) and travels a lot so she tends to toss me the keys when she leaves for 2 months with the expectation that I can use the car and if it's over a month, she would really like me to use it just to keep it rolling. I hate driving, though, and rarely use her car. It was convenient this summer when my kitty was in the final stages of renal failure and we had a lot of late night trips to the regional vet hospital but nothing we couldn't have managed with a zipcar or more expensively, a taxi.

As far as outright asking someone for a ride, I can't remember the last time I did that. I don't know if I ever have unless it was freely offered to me first and wouldn't inconvenience the person doing it. I get annoyed by my 'carfree' friend in another town who doesn't drive or bike, but doesn't know how he's going to do his shopping every month now that his driving girlfriend is out of the country for several months. So far, I think he's just been going down his friends list and begging for rides. Freeloader.

You're probably right, but I'm sure we've all known people who said they couldn't get from point A to point B because there's no good bike route. Often the reality is that they're so used to "thinking like a car" that they're unaware of alternate routes. Once you start thinking like a bike, the world opens up with all kinds of wonderful new routes.

Sometimes :). Other times, there's a 15% grade if you want to get back home.

It looks to me like Roanoke is pretty flat, by Appalachian standards. So some of the stuff that made my teen years so dire won't give the OP trouble. Still, the city is a radial pattern (like most older towns on the east coast) not a grid, so it may well be that alternate routes are tricky buggers. Once you *know* where the damn paved cowpath goes, it's not so bad... but it can take a long time to learn. Cows do not make good highway engineers.

Anyway... I have never borrowed a car to handle a task. I have borrowed a bike trailer once or twice. I do often have large items delivered. And for anything ordinary like groceries, my panniers or backpack or tote bag will handle things just fine.

But I do also go to a community college that's a couple of miles away and was actually planning my first bike commute there tomorrow.

If your community college is only a couple miles away, why not walk? I wouldn't even bother with the bicycle for that distance.

But ... how did the commute go?

The simple truth is, car free won't work for everyone at this point in time. If you don't think you could pull it off currently, then don't worry about it.

That just about sums it all up right there. If you don't think you can get by without a car, then don't get rid of yours.

The only time in recent memory I've had to "mooch" was a trip to the hospital to get some wisdom teeth removed -- and that was a trip I wouldn't have been physically able to drive for another 24 hours even if I'd had a car. I might accept a ride with someone else occasionally if they offer (and if they're actually reliable enough to show up, which is surprisingly rare), but apart from that, I just don't need to. I generally get large furniture items delivered, other errands I'll ride. I've run errands as long as 200km on my bike previously.

If your community college is only a couple miles away, why not walk? I wouldn't even bother with the bicycle for that distance.

But ... how did the commute go?

Really? For two miles, I'd much rather ride. I did a 3/4 mile walk throughout undergrad (no bike), and that was about 18 minutes, and it wasn't bad because I got to listen to some sweet music. But two miles is a 40-minute walk. There's no way I'd do that daily, or even weekly, when the same distance would take 15 minutes or less on the bike. Besides that, a bike at that distance allows you to go home and make it back whenever you've got an hour's break. On foot, there wouldn't really be a point in leaving campus for anything less than a two hour break, and you'd spend the majority of that time just walking.

I currently park just a bit over 2 kms (1.25 miles) away from my University and walk there and back three days a week = 12 kms. Then I walk 2 kms at lunch at work 2 days a week = 4 kms. Total: 16 kms (10 miles) per week of walking.

If I were 2 miles (3 kms) from my University, I'd definitely walk!!

I love walking, and it provides me with a weight-bearing exercise.

If your community college is only a couple miles away, why not walk? I wouldn't even bother with the bicycle for that distance.

But ... how did the commute go?

It actually went pretty good. I live on top of a short but steep hill. After going down that it was mostly back uphill to the school. Took 5-10 minutes which is about the same time as in my truck.

Rode the mtb the first day because I wasn't sure about the condition of the road (never really paid attention in the car) but today I think I'll ride my roadie.

BTW, thanks for all the good replies.

Personally, I'd not want to borrow other people's cars.

I second that, a few years ago my sister insisted that I borrow her car when she went on vacation. On the way to pick her up at the airport after her vacation I was in accident that totaled her car, man that sucked big time. After paying my sister back (rental and deductible, thank god her car was fully covered), I will never borrow anyone’s personal car. I do occasionally take the company van when I work late, though it's only because the drive thrus at the fast food chains only serve cars after 10pm.

For you guys that don't own a vehicle other than a bike, how does this work? Do you have to borrow other people's cars a lot?I would never borrow a friend's car, unless there were absolutely no other options. I've driven their cars for them on occasions when asked to. If I have to, I'll rent or take a taxi. I use buses and trains. I'm looking into joining a carpool system.

For example, I'm about to buy a new washing machine. I don't have a flatbed cargo trailer, so if this machine were an off-the-shelf model, I would probably rent the store van for a nominal fee. But the one I'm looking at will have to be ordered, so in all likelihood I will buy it delivered. Regardless of delivery method I can request the shop to take back all the packaging materials instead of trying to fit the huge styrofoam pieces in my household waste bin. For an additional small fee, the shop will also deliver my old washing machine to the nearest recycling center.

Such small details make my "car-free" living a lot easier. Like I've said earlier, I don't consider myself truly car-free in the sense that I never need a car. As described, I do need it every now and then. But there's no need for me to own one.

--J

I rent/use zipcar maybe 3 or 4 times a year. If I have to meet an out of town client I use zipcar because I can't show up for a business meeting in shorts. On roadtrips with non-biking people I contribute gas and driving time. I take the bus/metro when it will save time.

This sounds like a lot of cheating, but I bike the rest of the time, which means most of the time. You have to start somewhere. But can you realistically be 100% car-free if you work and/or study at least 30-40 hours a week or have non-biking friends, kids, partner, or spouse?

reminds me of a (bad) joke i made up:

Q: "how does a car free person do a road trip/buy that big TV/pick someone up from the airport?"

A: "they don't."

http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=47


So if someone borrows a car (or cell phone), they're labeled as a moocher? :lol:

Well look, if you don't own a cell phone "out of principal" but then are asking to borrow your friends' cell phone on a regular basis, then yes I would call that mooching. Similarly, if you decide to go car free, but expect your friends and family to give you a ride to where ever you need to go, that is also mooching.

That is, however, different from borrowing a friend's truck to move a bed or some such. Or you might just ask that friend to help you move it in exchange for beer and pizza.

Well look, if you don't own a cell phone "out of principal" but then are asking to borrow your friends' cell phone on a regular basis, then yes I would call that mooching. Similarly, if you decide to go car free, but expect your friends and family to give you a ride to where ever you need to go, that is also mooching.

That is, however, different from borrowing a friend's truck to move a bed or some such. Or you might just ask that friend to help you move it in exchange for beer and pizza.

I was talking about a one time thing. Not on a continuous basis. I do not own a cell phone and I've been car-free since 2003. :)

I second that, a few years ago my sister insisted that I borrow her car when she went on vacation.

I've gotten put in that spot as well. A co-worker got sent abroad with his wife for 2 months and he didn't want to leave his car in his parking lot. He told me about that just before he asked me to drive him to the airport. So I was stuck. And someone had vandalized cars during the day in my apartment parking lot so I couldn't leave his car at my place, and the company parking lot was used as a meeting place for drug dealers at night, so I couldn't leave it there. The only solution I was able to come up with was to drive it to work and back, where it was safer by day and safer by night.

Fortunately, I didn't have an accident. I was very relieved to pick them up when they returned, and hand the keys back to him.

I don't have a cell phone because I don't like talking on the phone and I don't want to be tracked or spied on or get charged for text messaging at over $1000 per megabyte. So I naturally recoil at the thought of using someone else's phone. What would I use it for? I don't like talking on the phone! If people need to reach me, email or face to face is super simple and cheap.

i don't have a cell phone because i don't like talking on the phone and i don't want to be tracked or spied on or get charged for text messaging at over $1000 per megabyte. So i naturally recoil at the thought of using someone else's phone. What would i use it for? I don't like talking on the phone! If people need to reach me, email or face to face is super simple and cheap.

+1000!!!!!!!!

I don't have a cell phone because I don't like talking on the phone and I don't want to be tracked or spied on or get charged for text messaging at over $1000 per megabyte. So I naturally recoil at the thought of using someone else's phone. What would I use it for? I don't like talking on the phone! If people need to reach me, email or face to face is super simple and cheap.

For those in this situation, who have little day to day use for a cell phone, but have a possible need for an "emergency" phone, ( like me ) 7-11 has the best deal in prepaid for low use. The phones start at $75 ( sometimes free with air time ) and the air time doesn't expire for 365 days. That is, if you don't use it, it doesn't just "go bad" after 30, 60, 90 or 120 days like other systems. rates vary from 15-35 cents ( I think, check that ) depending on whether you're in USA or Canada, obviously, overseas is more.