Triathlon - Running Pains

So my winter off season workouts have expanded to longer distances. I am running 5-7 miles per day now to start (even though I still have a Duathlon to go Oct 26th). I plan to extend these runs to 8 or even 10 miles per day. However I am finding pains I never had before. Taking the shoes out of the equation (I have a brand new pair of NB 805's in size 9.5, I have been wearing the same size NBs that were fitted at a running shop for 15 years on and off of running, I have a size 10 pair of NBs I ran in as well and the pain is equivalent, size 9 would crush my feet), I have a new pain I never got before in my inside rear right ankle. I get it on the left occasionally too but very minor, the right though its like the tendon at the back of my ankle on the inside is tight or something I dont know. Happens about 1.5 miles into a run. Is there maybe a stretch I am missing, or maybe a way I am landing my foot? Maybe my feet have changed and its time for some sort of insole? I was not getting these pains as heavily earlier this year, but I wasnt running as much either. Its NOT unbearable, I run through it but it definitely slows me down. Any ideas?

Have you considered that you may be adding too many miles too soon? A good rule of thumb is no more than 10% more miles per week. Also, you probably should be taking some days off. Running every day may be unrealistic until you've built up. I'd back off a bit....especially as you're currently experiencing pain.

In the meantime, get to a very good local running store and have them evaluate the shoes again...and your running stride. Your body does change over time and shoes certainly do every season. The shoes also might be shot even though they look fine.....or might be wrong for your feet/gait. Another big problem folks seem to have as they push for more mileage is having too large a stride. Shortening your stride and go for more turnover.

With regard to stretching, there's somewhat of a debate about that. Currently, many are saying that stretching after the run is better....and suggest starting off at a pace of at least one minute slower than your regular pace for the first mile. That'll give your muscles time to warm up. Stretching those cold muscles usually leads to problems.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Have you considered that you may be adding too many miles too soon? A good rule of thumb is no more than 10% more miles per week. Also, you probably should be taking some days off. Running every day may be unrealistic until you've built up. I'd back off a bit....especially as you're currently experiencing pain.

In the meantime, get to a very good local running store and have them evaluate the shoes again...and your running stride. Your body does change over time and shoes certainly do every season. The shoes also might be shot even though they look fine.....or might be wrong for your feet/gait. Another big problem folks seem to have as they push for more mileage is having too large a stride. Shortening your stride and go for more turnover.

With regard to stretching, there's somewhat of a debate about that. Currently, many are saying that stretching after the run is better....and suggest starting off at a pace of at least one minute slower than your regular pace for the first mile. That'll give your muscles time to warm up. Stretching those cold muscles usually leads to problems.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

I am intermixing bike days and swim days into my routine, as well I am taking days off I shouldnt have said every day, but like 3-4 days a week is run, 1-2 days off, 1 day bike 1 day swim. I will likely be increasing the swimming as that is my biggest weakness. Weeks vary depending on my schedule.

The shoes are brand new maybe 30 miles on them, but thats good advice, I think I will head to the store to have them check it out.

I agree on stretching. if I dont have time to "warm up" and stretch then I just run and stretch afterwards, and never have a problem. Cold muscle stretching leads to injuries.

I'm going to try a shorter stride tonight and see what happens, however I ran about a minute slower miles two weeks ago and still had similar pains....

I just ran another 5 miles and made the following changes:
Tighetned my laces VERY tight on the right side (tighter than I ever normally would)
Lowered my body position with a slight forward lean
shortened stride
I went slower (I was doing 8 - 8:30 minute miles before, today I did 8:30-9 minute miles) I started to feel the pain much later in the run (at about the 2.5 mile point) I stopped for a minute and stretched my calf and then continued on and while I still felt the pain slightly its about 1/4 as painful, maybe thats just residual from the other day.
Any ideas? I would prefer to be going faster.

I have a couple of thoughts and a questions.

- Some progress but it's hard to attribute it to any particular thing....I'd keep experimenting.

- You didn't quite slow down enough. You slowed about 30 seconds/mile. I'd slow the pace by a minute....or 1.5/mile. Target 10 to 10:30/mile for the first mile 2 miles. The idea is 2 miles at the slow pace, then pick it up to normal pace. When you build, you can shorten the duration of the initial slow part. Do you have a decent way of determining your pace? Most runner can't seem to slow down without some sort of technical clue (e.g., Garmin) or having a pace person to run with.

- Don't lower your running position. Chest-up/head-up always. Leaning forward a little is only to get a little more push down a hill and even then, you want as long a body as possible.

So - question. What's up with the tight laces? I know this is a personal preference but why crank them down? Decent running shoes should fit well enough that you only need to snug them up. (check those shoes at the running store!).

I'm not training for a tri, but I run, bike, and swim regularly. I got into the biking and swimming because my body felt like it was falling apart from the running. I consulted a sports medicine specialist, and suggest if you feel pain, you do the same. I pulled a calf muscle and was out of running for almost 3 months. Thankfully it was the winter, so I was able to resume training in the summer.

Pain in the heel area is likely Achilles Tendonitis. I have it because of bone spurs on both heels. I spend about 30 minutes stretcing every day, whether I run or not. I stretch the muscles in my lower leg whenever I get a chance. The wall stretch is good for loosening it up. Go to runnersworld.com to get info on a good stretch routine.

I run at least twice a week, but usually 3 times. I try to get 3 bike rides in also, but usually 2. I ride to the YMCA and swim laps, and on the in between days, run. I spend some time on a heavy bag too, but since I have a job, I miss workouts or cut them short. I have had to learn the hard way, if I don't have time to stretch before and after my run, I run a shorter distance. My Monday run is 2-3 easy miles, my Wednesday run is 5 miles with intervals or 3 at race pace, and my Friday run is a long slow run, I am up to 7 miles regularly. The bike rides to the Y are 15 miles round trip, and I usually swim 15-20 laps.

I would rather miss a few days because I felt some pain and decided to lay off a bit, than end up going backwards again like last November. I do not subscribe to the run-through-it approach. Soreness is one thing, pain means get some help.

BTW, I don't tighten my shoes running or on the bike. I used to buy the same size shoe for running as what I wear normally. Now I get my running shoes a half size bigger, and leave them fairly loose. I think my feet swell a little and I'm more comfortable. It took a little getting used to though.

I've always liked tight laced shoes, don't know why but I never really had a foot swell issue, I feel fine after a run. I have continued to stretch extra and the pain has decreased significantly. I really think I just was injuring myself with the 1/2 size too big shoes I was running in. I should have went with my proven correct size, but I was being cheap. I ran a Duathlon this weekend with almost negligible pain in that area. I also ran a 5k race last week at a 7min/mile pace with negligible pain as well. With the half size bigger shoe it just doesn't feel like my foot is landing right, and it feels like my foot is almost shifting in the shoe. Its a bad feeling. Pace wise I have no problem keeping a pace time in my head, I have all my routes landmarked, i wear a stopwatch, and I have been doing this for so long (~16 years) I never have a problem keeping a pace time that I choose.

Unfortunately due to my work schedule bike rides during the week in the fall/winter are out of the question (I don't want to ride in the dark, too cold and its taking my life in my hands with the traffic around here). Running is really my main workout so I end up doing it more often than not. I swim as well of course, and I need to increase my swims (probably gonna get a swim coach) because thats one part that i suck at. Thanks for the tips guys, Its great to have acommunity here that can answer questions like this!

Its great to have acommunity here that can answer questions like this!

Yes it is. If you'd posted this in the Road Cycling section, there would have been 35 responses like this...

"It's because you are running. Running is for sissies. Cyclists rule, and they only ride $10,000 AMERICAN built, hand made, full carbon frames with $1500 wheelsets, and DuraAce EVERYTHING."

or...

"Did you realize you posted a running question in a cycling forum?"

Sorry, elitists make me want to puke. If you're the greatest in the world at something, good for you. I would rather be good at a lot of things, than only be great at one thing, and have to poopoo everything anybody else does.

BTW, I have had an issue with muscle spasms in the small muscles in my shins. I've done some deep tissue massages that a PT showed me. VERY painful, and left me sore for 3 days. I took some muscle relaxers and Motrin, and a few days off. Lots of stretching, and I feel 10 years younger. If you have some more questions about running, check out Runners World website. Good resource. Also A Time to Run.

Glad the stretching is working out for you.

Haha I hear ya about that. I'm very careful about what I post in prettymuch any of the other forums here. However I know triatheletes are a different breed and so far in doing it (albet for a short time) I haven't yet met any true *******s (I'm sure there are some out there but not many).

I pose a lot of my more important questions here in Triathlon, like about wheelsets and stuff, because elsewhere here I get answers that I should light my frame on fire before upgrading it because it doesn't say Trek or Cervelo on the side of it. Meanwhile between buying a cheaper but correctly sized bike, searching for deals and upgrading, I've built a fast light bike for about 1/2 the cost and learned how to do the work myself. Instead of running to the LBS and dropping $3gs and whining to them every time the chain falls off.

Back on topic though, I am adding spin classes to my workout now to get the bike action in for the winter. Also I have started to wear wind pants now that its cold, it has totally screwed up my pace, I think I'm gonna forgo them and stick with the tights, I used to be able to do it, but now they really mess me up. The pain is now limited to the center of my ankle only, and it is really minor. Also I was having some knee issues with my bum knee (from high school track), and those have subsided as well.

Just goes to show what a huge difference shoes make, and how just putting a new set on won't instantly cure you.

Just a comment from a 58-yr old life time runner: sometimes lacing tightly keeps your foot centered firmly in the shoe's "sweet spot" so a stiff heel counter can work better to combat pronation or some other issue. If that issue is what is causing the tendon to inflame, the tighter laces make good sense.

For what it's worth.

TysonB
Cushing, OK

Just a comment from a 58-yr old life time runner: sometimes lacing tightly keeps your foot centered firmly in the shoe's "sweet spot" so a stiff heel counter can work better to combat pronation or some other issue. If that issue is what is causing the tendon to inflame, the tighter laces make good sense.

For what it's worth.

TysonB
Cushing, OK

Thanks, I highly agree thats what works for me. The slightly larger shoe, and not having the laces tight enough caused my problems, the smaller shoe and tight laces corrected them.

I ran 2 nights ago with 0 pain, I think its finally done for now....

So my winter off season workouts have expanded to longer distances. I am running 5-7 miles per day now to start (even though I still have a Duathlon to go Oct 26th). I plan to extend these runs to 8 or even 10 miles per day. However I am finding pains I never had before. Taking the shoes out of the equation (I have a brand new pair of NB 805's in size 9.5, I have been wearing the same size NBs that were fitted at a running shop for 15 years on and off of running, I have a size 10 pair of NBs I ran in as well and the pain is equivalent, size 9 would crush my feet), I have a new pain I never got before in my inside rear right ankle. I get it on the left occasionally too but very minor, the right though its like the tendon at the back of my ankle on the inside is tight or something I dont know. Happens about 1.5 miles into a run. Is there maybe a stretch I am missing, or maybe a way I am landing my foot? Maybe my feet have changed and its time for some sort of insole? I was not getting these pains as heavily earlier this year, but I wasnt running as much either. Its NOT unbearable, I run through it but it definitely slows me down. Any ideas?

You might find taking 1 or 2 Ibuprofen BEFORE you run would help you and/or using a piece of 'refrigerator' magnet (that thin, flexable stuff) held on with a sock or one of those elastic, joint support type bandages.

These ideas seem to help me. I'm 68 and running isn't getting any easier. :-)

I haven't run long but I do know anything you ice down feels better the next day. :)

Ice is good.

I have a coworker who was a Navy SEAL, and he said the RICE method helps with most ailments.

Rest Ice Compress Elevate

I either read somewhere or was told by a doc not to take NSAIDs like Ibuprofen before you run. I don't remember the explanation, but it made sense.

Just a comment from a 58-yr old life time runner: sometimes lacing tightly keeps your foot centered firmly in the shoe's "sweet spot" so a stiff heel counter can work better to combat pronation or some other issue. If that issue is what is causing the tendon to inflame, the tighter laces make good sense.

I know from seeing a podiatrist that I have bone spurs on the back and bottom of both heels. I was told (or could have misunderstood what I was told) that this is what is causing my Achilles tendonitis, and that surgery might not solve the problem, and could make it worse. I've dealt with it by stretching. A lot.

I tried loose shoes at the suggestion of a fellow runner. I always liked any of my shoes fairly snug, but now I've gotten used to my running shoes being a bit loose. I am wondering if anybody has any idea if this might help with the tendonitis. I'd like to stay with the stretching, but I'd like to be able to run more than 2 or 3 days a week, especially while it's too cold to ride as much.

Ideas? I guess I could get a smaller pair of running shoes and experiment.

I looked for the article I read. It was on the runnersworld.com site under the name Pill Primer. Basically it said using pain meds to get through a run is masking pain, which is a sign you need to not run. A little ache or discomfort is pretty normal, but real pain is the symptom.

I knew it made sense. BTW, it also said something I missed the first time. Taking too much of an anti-inflammatory can cause problems. Some of the swelling is your body sending fluid to overworked muscles, which aids in recovery. It's also why I never do hard runs 2 days in a row in training.

Also read another article on lower leg pain. I will be replacing my shoes this week, and get a 1/2 size smaller (little snug) pair and try them out.

One last thought. The last week the weather here has been rough. I don't run much in hard rain. I don't mind being wet really, but I live in the city, and I've almost been hit by drivers who I don't think either expected to see me, or DID see me. Thanks, but missing a run isn't THAT big a deal. So, I've spent time stretching, and when I did run, they were short but fairly fast runs. I can feel the difference in my gait and my theory is that I am doing less of a jog, where the balls of my feet do a lot of work, and put stress on my lower leg muscles, and more of a run, where I land on my heels, and am stretching out my legs. I feel NO pain after, but a little soreness (not used to that!) in my legs from a hard run.

What do you guys think?