Foo - Old vs New

How many people here have gone to replace theyre 20-25 year old refrigerator ( that still worked fine) just because they wanted to update theyre kitchen and then had the new one break after a month?

Ever sell that old car that worked just fine to buy a newer more fuel efficient one only to break down on the highway? then you open the hood and dont know what your looking at?

Had a nice kenmore washing machine for 15 years and replaced it with the newer model of the same one because the motor was almost as much as a new machine, and on the very first wash during the spin cycle the cheap plastic hose clamp on the bottom breaks and dumps the entire drum of water on your kitchen floor ....

My mother still has the same electrolux vaccume she had when I was growing up and it still works fine...I have been through 3 of them in the last 5 years.

Is it just me? or is every single thing on the market just made like complete crap?
just wondering if its me? :twitchy:

It is not you.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=151675

It is not just you. I am continually discovering that new things are almost never better than old things. "Planned obsolescence" has gotten completely ridiculous in recent years. So much so that I try to avoid buying new things whenever possible, and when I have to a try to buy something that hasn't changed in design in 50+ years.

Things are made to break now and days, or at least not made to last.
I will actually purposely buy many older appliances at times if I know they're made better.

While there does seem to be a Wal-Martization effect with higher volume of lower-quality crap being sold, you can still find quality-products if you look. Such as Kirby vacuums, SubZero fridges, Bosch dishwashers, etc.

And cars are another completely separate thing altogether. I don't mind hooking my laptop up to the car, driving around for a while as it datalogs info, then specifying new fuel & ignition parameters with a couple of mouse-clicks. Much, much more convenient than swapping carb-jets and adjusting float-levels endlessly. I've even been able to tune some of my customers' cars in Europe across the internet while they were at the dyno shoppe. :)

brokenthingie! How ya doing?

I keep stuff till I can't possibly scotch tape it together anymore....though that has been changing as I get older.

with the economy being what it is, I may stop changing

My mom wanted a good home radio, because her 40 year old GE radio broke, and none of the new ones she tried worked as well. I ended up taking speakers, a car radio, a 120AC-12DC wall adapter, and an antenna and making her a radio which I sent to her.

Another great example is the cheap rubber stoppers on canes. When I was using my cane while my leg healed, I had to shoe goo them, otherwise the stoppers lasted for literally about a mile of walking.

One more example of old VS new is cars. Speaking only in terms of commuting and not performance, new cars in many instances are getting cheap and less reliable. My dad's Chevelle went for nearly 300,000 miles, and nowadays that's almost unheard of. Cheap, often chinese parts are prone to breakage. But there are a lot of new cars (many or most of them Japanese) which are long term reliable, cheap, and efficient.

A lot of new stuff is garbage, but a lot isn't. Sometimes you need to pay extra for good products, (non chinese stuff) and sometimes you have to make your own stuff, or do modifications. But it's certainly not hard to have durable tools and other possessions.

While there does seem to be a Wal-Martization effect with higher volume of lower-quality crap being sold, you can still find quality-products if you look. Such as Kirby vacuums, SubZero fridges, Bosch dishwashers, etc.

And cars are another completely separate thing altogether. I don't mind hooking my laptop up to the car, driving around for a while as it datalogs info, then specifying new fuel & ignition parameters with a couple of mouse-clicks. Much, much more convenient than swapping carb-jets and adjusting float-levels endlessly. I've even been able to tune some of my customers' cars in Europe across the internet while they were at the dyno shoppe. :)

I agree with you on some points there Danno, but Subzero fridges suffer the same inferior quality components as every other fridge. I have 2 friends and 1 parent that bought them and all had problems. one was the ice maker, one was the compressor and the other one was iceing over. I only know 3 people that bought brand new subzero refrigerators and all 3 of them broke within a year. thats not bad luck lol...thats bad quality.

And the cars...you and I work on them all the time...so it makes sense to us, what about the hobby guy and the sunday car enthusiast? if something went horribly wrong with my carburator car chances are I would still get home...and the number of things that could go wrong were minimal...now any number of hundreds of things can go wrong and any one of them will keep the car from running altogether. I dont know who came up with the Idea that we have to make cars more f***ing complicated to get better gas mileage and better emmissions, isnt the more obvious answer to have a cleaner renewable fuel source and make the cars easier again? If I run a bone stock 67 chevy impala on hydrogen or alchohol it will burn cleaner than any new civic
just sayin
more complicated and cheaper dont work
its obvious
where do we draw the line?

brokenthingie! How ya doing?

hows it hangin UA ;)

While there does seem to be a Wal-Martization effect with higher volume of lower-quality crap being sold, you can still find quality-products if you look. Such as Kirby vacuums, SubZero fridges, Bosch dishwashers, etc.

And cars are another completely separate thing altogether. I don't mind hooking my laptop up to the car, driving around for a while as it datalogs info, then specifying new fuel & ignition parameters with a couple of mouse-clicks. Much, much more convenient than swapping carb-jets and adjusting float-levels endlessly. I've even been able to tune some of my customers' cars in Europe across the internet while they were at the dyno shoppe. :)

I miss carbs. Now I have to throw my laptop instead of my tools.:mad:

Bikes are better than they've ever been. Other than that.

Bikes are better than they've ever been.

I disagree. None of my newer bikes hold a candle to most of my older bikes in terms of reliability and sheer enjoyment.

Edit: I will admit, however, that some new bike parts and accessories are far superior. Brakes, for example.

hows it hangin UA ;)

It doesn't. It kind of pokes out. :p

I disagree. None of my newer bikes hold a candle to most of my older bikes in terms of reliability and sheer enjoyment.

Edit: I will admit, however, that some new bike parts and accessories are far superior. Brakes, for example.

I think I know what you mean....I'd say they're just different now. I have an old bike and a newer one and they 're both cool in their own ways....just rode the old one today....yep, the brakes suck

One thing that's not so good these days is how well our memory works. The "good old days" never were...they're a figment of our imagination.

The feeling can be summed up as, "The older I get, the better everything used to be."

A very good example is the automobile. Compared to when I was young (I'm 68), cars are enormously superior these days. They last twice as long, get twice the fuel mileage, and vastly out-perform the much beloved cars of those bad old days...braking, cornering, and acceleration are all better these days.

And, of course, just think of computers...

It doesn't. It kind of pokes out. :p

Oh ew. TMI. :mad:

I have to disagree with the comment about Sub Zero refrigerators being inferior. They make an excellent product that can be expected to far outlast most competiive products. Sub Zero does not manufacture icemakers, they sell icemaker that are made by others. Sub Zero refrigerator compressors have a 12 year warranty, most other companies offer only a 1 year warranty. Like most products they are not immune from having problems, but ask any service technican how reliable they are and you will discover they are very reliable.

Oh ew. TMI. :mad:

My hair! I have really short hair that just sort of pokes out of my head rather than hanging down. What were you thinking?... :p

I've had 5 SubZeros growing up and have the ones in my house for 14-years. As previously mentioned, you need to consult a larger sampling and compare to other brands. The ones who service them can tell you all about their experiences. The thing that makes the biggest difference is the quality of the installation. Many people skimp on that part; and it's not uncommon for the install to be just as costly if not more than the fridge itself.

For example, not many people will vent the rear of the fridge. This causes a large delta-D across the system and overdrives the compressor & motor. You have to build a whole ventilation system just for the fridge with cool inlet and vent out the hot exhaust. Much easier done when the architect is designing the house. :)

Another commonly overlooked maintenance is cleaning the condensor coils. This helps them exchange heat much more efficiently; again, reducing load on the compressor & motor. This should be done at least once a year. If you designed your ventilation system with air-filters, then you won't have to clean the coils as often.

:notamused:

I refuse to acknowledge the fact that screens now come in other colors than monochrome!!! IT STILL LIVES!!

:D

http://divadonna.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/tandy-trs80.jpg

TANDY RULES!! Early Hefty info for Mobil Chemical Co was all controlled via this state of the art device!

hehe - I actually grew up on old DOS with the 10-1/2 floppies - then going to 5-1/4" stuff - and NO hard drive. uh dear dog - I just let out me age!!

:D

Actually, somewhere in my stuff that is in storage is my Grandmother's electrolux - dam thing is/was awesome as well as being an antique.

My mom has an old Kelvinator refrigerator that's been in the family since the early 60's. It still works great.

I haven't done it for 4 or 5 years, but I'm licensed to work on refrigerators. They are pretty simple things. Not nearly as hard to fix as most cars, provided you have the tools.

That said, my grandmas GE ammonia fridge has been going strong since the 50s with no work done to it. Heck, these days, it's essentially unfixable. The only fix I've ever heard of for those old things is to drain the ammonia and toss it. But it still works perfectly. I think a lot of GE stuff was and still is really well made. They tend to be a really good company.

I've had 5 SubZeros growing up and have the ones in my house for 14-years. As previously mentioned, you need to consult a larger sampling and compare to other brands. The ones who service them can tell you all about their experiences. The thing that makes the biggest difference is the quality of the installation. Many people skimp on that part; and it's not uncommon for the install to be just as costly if not more than the fridge itself.

For example, not many people will vent the rear of the fridge. This causes a large delta-D across the system and overdrives the compressor & motor. You have to build a whole ventilation system just for the fridge with cool inlet and vent out the hot exhaust. Much easier done when the architect is designing the house. :)

Another commonly overlooked maintenance is cleaning the condensor coils. This helps them exchange heat much more efficiently; again, reducing load on the compressor & motor. This should be done at least once a year. If you designed your ventilation system with air-filters, then you won't have to clean the coils as often.


I'm not saying its not the best one built today...I'm saying that the older ones didnt need maintenance...no cleaning anything but the shelves and drawers...my parents never cleaned the condenser coils and the old bird is still running in the garage some 35 years later and it works just fine. As a matter of fact they had to put all they're food in it when the new one broke. I understand that you have had yours and it works just fine for 14 years but I'm not talking about the ones they made 14 years ago...I'm talking about the ones they make today. 3 people 3 bad refrigerators...dont care what the tech says...if you had 3 friends who bought the same brand toasters and they all broke and all of your other friends have a different brand and none of them have problems...then its the brand plain and simple. I shouldnt know 3 people that have problems with the same product, thats rediculous. If I had 3 friends with Trek bikes and all the frames broke...I wouldnt buy Trek.
My american bike isnt even made here. Trek only makes the top end frames here. The companies are buying crap parts because there arent any good ones available anymore...its all crap...crap I say!!!

:notamused:

I refuse to acknowledge the fact that screens now come in other colors than monochrome!!! IT STILL LIVES!!

:D

http://divadonna.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/tandy-trs80.jpg

TANDY RULES!! Early Hefty info for Mobil Chemical Co was all controlled via this state of the art device!

hehe - I actually grew up on old DOS with the 10-1/2 floppies - then going to 5-1/4" stuff - and NO hard drive. uh dear dog - I just let out me age!!

:D

Actually, somewhere in my stuff that is in storage is my Grandmother's electrolux - dam thing is/was awesome as well as being an antique.

and my commodore 64 ;)

I think I know what you mean....I'd say they're just different now. I have an old bike and a newer one and they 're both cool in their own ways....just rode the old one today....yep, the brakes suck

I think I jumped the gun a little with my post. A lot of it has to do with personal preference. If you want the lightest, stiffest, fastest road bike then a new one is going to be perfect. If you want to attack gnarly trails at full speed and take huge drops, then a new MTB is going to be perfect.

But neither of those things concern me. My Univega is comfortable on all roads (even unpaved ones) and in all weather, it's versatile, and it can carry things. And it's very metallic and mechanical, if that makes any sense. It reminds me of an old mechanical watch that still works great. To have a similar new bike, I'd have to fork over thousands for a custom. I now have a Long Haul Trucker as well and it's fine, but it doesn't have that "feel" that the Univega has. Currently I even have it built up with mostly vintage parts, yet for some reason it's not the same. It does have much more clearance for tires and fenders, so it beats the Univega in that respect.

I shouldnt know 3 people that have problems with the same product, thats rediculous. If I had 3 friends with Trek bikes and all the frames broke...I wouldnt buy Trek.
My american bike isnt even made here. Trek only makes the top end frames here. The companies are buying crap parts because there arent any good ones available anymore...its all crap...crap I say!!!I think it's a chick-and-egg problem. Consumers nowadays aren't as discerning as they used to be. Low-price seems to have taken priority over quality. And the manufacturers are really just responding to market conditions. Part of it is the bling-culture in the U.S. where people want more and more "things" in their lives. I haven't seen anything similar to it in any other culture. People tend to be more satisfied with simpler lives abroad.

and my Apple 2c+ which I still fire up once in a while to write a letter or other something.

I can tell you one place where this comes into play:

Tools. Used to be two categories of tools out there. US made that lasted forever, and crappy imports that are usable for a specific job, then are chucked away.

Now its extremely hard to find a name brand that even approaches the quality of stuff made ten years ago.

I think it's a chick-and-egg problem. Consumers nowadays aren't as discerning as they used to be. Low-price seems to have taken priority over quality. And the manufacturers are really just responding to market conditions. Part of it is the bling-culture in the U.S. where people want more and more "things" in their lives. I haven't seen anything similar to it in any other culture. People tend to be more satisfied with simpler lives abroad.

Bingo!! ;)

I can tell you one place where this comes into play:

Tools. Used to be two categories of tools out there. US made that lasted forever, and crappy imports that are usable for a specific job, then are chucked away.

Now its extremely hard to find a name brand that even approaches the quality of stuff made ten years ago.

Snap on, but you pay through the nose for it.