Pacific Northwest - Silverdale anti-cycling idiot and your opinion

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Fazhu
10-10-08, 10:09 PM
Hello all. The other day my mother-in-law was riding her bike northbound on Silverdale Way when some idiot in a car shouted out to her " Get the f**k off the road"! I was so peeved because I firmly believe that we cyclists have every bit as much right to use the streets as motorists but it got me thinking about something. If any of you are familiar with this road (between Bucklin hill rd. and the 303) you will know that this section is a very tight two lane. It is part of most of my cycling routes. I almost always ride on the actual street because I feel that it is safer despite the narrowness. But here is my question, because of the narrowness do you think it would be better to ride on the sidewalk or exercise my right to ride on the road and just make cars get into the other lane ( both lanes are going in the same direction)? Anyway, what do ya think?


DJayne
10-10-08, 10:33 PM
I don't know the road, but when there are two lanes available and no shoulder/bike lane, I take the right hand lane. The only time I would consider using the sidewalk is when the road is very busy and the sidewalk is empty of pedestrians.

kpug505
10-10-08, 10:40 PM
Use the road......
WA state law:
RCW 46.61.770 Riding upon roadways and bicycle paths.
(1) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is safe except as may be appropriate while preparing to make or while making turning movements, or while overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway or highway other than a limited-access highway, which roadway or highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near to the left side of the left through lane as is safe. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway may use the shoulder of the roadway or any specially designated bicycle lane if such exists. (2) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.

And:
RCW 46.61.755 Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles.
Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter, except as to special regulations in RCW 46.61.750 through 46.61.780 and except as to those provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.

You have the right to use the road under state law........Do it! Be visible, same road-same rules and take the lane!


East Hill
10-11-08, 08:25 AM
Hello all. The other day my mother-in-law was riding her bike northbound on Silverdale Way when some idiot in a car shouted out to her " Get the f**k off the road"! I was so peeved because I firmly believe that we cyclists have every bit as much right to use the streets as motorists but it got me thinking about something. If any of you are familiar with this road (between Bucklin hill rd. and the 303) you will know that this section is a very tight two lane. It is part of most of my cycling routes. I almost always ride on the actual street because I feel that it is safer despite the narrowness. But here is my question, because of the narrowness do you think it would be better to ride on the sidewalk or exercise my right to ride on the road and just make cars get into the other lane ( both lanes are going in the same direction)? Anyway, what do ya think?

Take the road!

The only time I ride on a sidewalk is when I am going up a steep hill, and only if there's no driveways along the stretch of the sidewalk I'm using.

Sooner or later drivers need to get used to people on bicycles going about their business. No time like the present to start educating them.

East Hill

Fazhu
10-11-08, 11:06 AM
Thanks everyone. And I will continue to ride on the road!

1bluetrek
10-11-08, 11:36 AM
I always thought it sucked living where I do cuz there are no other cyclists here, but maybe its not so bad. Every one seems to give me plenty of room and the roads are pretty low traffic. Just watchout for the folks who arent watching out for you fazhu!

Butcher
10-11-08, 11:58 AM
I am amazed how bicyclist seem that they have the right to be on the road and when they exercise there right they wonder why other motorist get upset. Ever drive a car and wonder why the speed limit is 60 mph and the person in front of you is going 40mph? It is frustrating that one person who has the right to be on the road does and effects everyone else. I try [in my car and bike] not to effect someone else. I do ride on the shoulder most every time. If I can lower my effect with the cars on a narrow road and ride in the side walk I will, but only when I am screwing up traffic so bad that I am in danger of causing accidents. I do not go 60 mph in the fast lane and tell my self that I have the right to be in that lane and not move over so the guy behind me can pass. I would rather be alive than right. Dead people have no rights.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we all have to use the road, lets all work together and not be so stubborn because it is your 'right'.
There is no reason to cuss at someone that obviously is trying to take a small share of their portion of the road. Some people will never understand but most people I run into on the road are more than fair and give me the space I need. I too give the space the car needs so they can pass me safely.

BengeBoy
10-11-08, 12:01 PM
Thanks everyone. And I will continue to ride on the road!

Given the gray/wet skies we have around here most of the year - esp. fall and winter - it's helpful to wear a blinking tail light, even in the middle of the day. Anything you can do to make yourself more visible to drivers is a potential help.

Shifty
10-11-08, 02:20 PM
Use the road......
WA state law:
(2) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.

And:
RCW 46.61.755 Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles.
Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter, except as to special regulations in RCW 46.61.750 through 46.61.780 and except as to those provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.

You have the right to use the road under state law........Do it! Be visible, same road-same rules and take the lane!
The haters often get mad and vocal when two riders are riding side by side, the law is clear on this also.

We had a guy honk and yell at us last spring, so I invited him to stop and talk. He did, and when I asked him why he thought we shouldn't be on the road, he had a really weak "you don't pay taxes" reason. It was pretty lame and pathetic, I guess he didn't listen to talk radio well enough, or read the laws. I didn't get into it, but I pay a LOT of taxes, it was lame to have some yo-yo telling me I don't pay enough to ride:rolleyes:

Bottom line, these people are idiots, but they can be dangerous idiots, be careful.

East Hill
10-11-08, 02:36 PM
I am amazed how bicyclist seem that they have the right to be on the road and when they exercise there right they wonder why other motorist get upset. Ever drive a car and wonder why the speed limit is 60 mph and the person in front of you is going 40mph? It is frustrating that one person who has the right to be on the road does and effects everyone else. I try [in my car and bike] not to effect someone else. I do ride on the shoulder most every time. If I can lower my effect with the cars on a narrow road and ride in the side walk I will, but only when I am screwing up traffic so bad that I am in danger of causing accidents. I do not go 60 mph in the fast lane and tell my self that I have the right to be in that lane and not move over so the guy behind me can pass. I would rather be alive than right. Dead people have no rights.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we all have to use the road, lets all work together and not be so stubborn because it is your 'right'.
There is no reason to cuss at someone that obviously is trying to take a small share of their portion of the road. Some people will never understand but most people I run into on the road are more than fair and give me the space I need. I too give the space the car needs so they can pass me safely.

I think you may have possibly not understood the OP's postition. The OP described a situation where there is a very narrow road. It's safer for the OP to 'take the lane' rather than riding on the sidewalk. And, it's still good for drivers to understand that bicyclists DO have the right to ride on the road, even if they think we are in the way.

East Hill

Oroluk Lagoon
10-11-08, 06:41 PM
If there is no shoulder and the rider keeps as far to the right as possible he or she does not deserve to be yelled at. On the other hand when a rider exercises his or her "right" by riding up a long hill in the middle of the lane on a 2-way, 2-lane road with wide shoulders, they aren't doing the rest of us any favors.
With a rear-view mirror I can ride 2-abreast to chat with a friend and easily pull in behind him when I see a car coming. This makes it safer for both the riders and the car that has to swing out over the centerline to pass, perhaps on a hill or a curve. Courtesy like this costs us nothing and hopefully is noted and appreciated by the driver of the vehicle(s).
Thanks KPUG for posting the law.

Butcher
10-11-08, 09:45 PM
if there is no shoulder and the rider keeps as far to the right as possible he or she does not deserve to be yelled at. On the other hand when a rider exercises his or her "right" by riding up a long hill in the middle of the lane on a 2-way, 2-lane road with wide shoulders, they aren't doing the rest of us any favors.

+1

Butcher
10-11-08, 09:56 PM
It's safer for the OP to 'take the lane' rather than riding on the sidewalk. And, it's still good for drivers to understand that bicyclists DO have the right to ride on the road, even if they think we are in the way.

I ride a Tandem with my son and I would rather take a sidewalk then be dead and 'right'. Try taking James Street [going up hill] in the 'lane' and I would be certain you would be dead and right. I have seen cars that cannot make it up that hill when they are both right. Common sense should precident before any laws and any sharing that may take place.

East Hill
10-11-08, 10:11 PM
I ride a Tandem with my son and I would rather take a sidewalk then be dead and 'right'. Try taking James Street [going up hill] in the 'lane' and I would be certain you would be dead and right. I have seen cars that cannot make it up that hill when they are both right. Common sense should precident before any laws and any sharing that may take place.

Well, I avoid James and go up Canyon. Or, go up 208th. James is dangerous no matter how you cut it. There are back ways of going up James, too.

East Hill

mtnwkr
10-12-08, 02:03 AM
I live in Bremerton and ride into Silverdale via bucklin hill to get to the LBS often. I'll take the lane when it's not too busy, otherwise I'll ride through the parking lots or take the MUP to get where I need to go. Nobody uses the sidewalks in silverdale though.
-Josh

Butcher
10-12-08, 12:33 PM
Well, I avoid James and go up Canyon. Or, go up 208th. James is dangerous no matter how you cut it. There are back ways of going up James, too.

No matter how you cut it, if you live off of James [which I do] there is no way to get home safely without taking the sidewalk. Which makes me a firm believer that taking the lane, even if you are right, is not the best bet to get to your destination safely.

kpug505
10-12-08, 05:05 PM
Alright.....Lets settle the bikes on sidewalks debate in Washington state. According to WA state law cyclists have the right to use the sidewalk. However, there is a clause written into the law that allows cities to ban bikes from sidewalks in certain areas.......Therefore you might be within your legal rights to use them. But that in my opinion is beside the point. I'll get to that after I post the law and links to it:
http://www.cascade.org/Advocacy/legalspin_June07.cfm
Question: Is it legal to ride on the sidewalk? Answer: Maybe, depending on the location of the sidewalk. Although the general rule is that it is legal to ride your bike on a sidewalk, individual cities may enact an ordinance prohibiting riding on the sidewalk.

Washington law (RCW 46.61.755(2)) provides as follows: “Every person riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk or crosswalk must be granted all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to a pedestrian by this chapter.” While this statute gives cyclists the right to ride on sidewalks, Washington Administrative Code (WAC) 308-330-555 sets forth a Model Traffic Ordinance which city governments may incorporate into their local traffic codes which provides as follows:
(1) No person shall ride a bicycle upon a sidewalk in a business district.
(2) A person may ride a bicycle on any other sidewalk or any roadway unless restricted or prohibited by traffic control devices.
(3) Whenever any person is riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk, such person shall yield the right of way to any pedestrian.

Basically.......Check with your city.

Now my opinion on sidewalks (and cutting through parking lots if not acting like a car).
Sidewalks are scary and uncomfortable places to ride. I read somewhere once (I wish I could find that link) that you are far more (upwards of 75%) likely to get hit by an automobile while riding on the sidewalk or in the crosswalk. You've got people wanting to turn into their driveways, back out of them, obstructing the sidewalks while waiting to enter the road way, etc.
Parking lots are scary places to ride too. Cars are not looking for you. Don't cut through parking spaces and be hyper aware of your surroundings.

The gist of it all is....Be safe out there. You've got the right to be there. Ride like people don't see you. Make eye contact. Be courteous. Know your rights just in case you get into an altercation with someone. Dress brightly. Use lights day and night. Don't take risks by darting on and off the sidewalks or in and out of parking lots to save yourself a couple seconds on the ride. Be predictable. Hold your line. Find a safer route even if it means adding miles. (We are all here 'cause we love to ride right?)

Oh ya! Don't be a chicken! Over 40,000 people die every year in the US in cars while about 800 die on bikes (mostly by being hit by cars between the hours of 4:30 p.m. and 8 p.m. in the fall months).

The facts: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810791.PDF

Ride safe!
Kelly D

Fazhu
10-12-08, 10:29 PM
This all brings up everything that was going through my mind when I originally posted. I didn't necessarily choose to ride in the lane to show motorists that I was "right" or to exercise my rights (although I do believe in defending them) but because I felt it was safer than the sidewalk. Sidewalks can be very scary to ride on. I have taken the lane today and yesterday and I think I will stick with it. Thanks all for the different angles. And as Kelly D sez "Ride safe!".

bmaxwell
10-20-08, 10:02 PM
Fazhu.... I take it you have to ride through silverdale? I am not sure I have the tomach for that place or at least the part you are talking about ... I have a hard enough time driving through that part of town without getting hit.... you are a brave soul...

I am up here on Island Lake... go north on Silverdale way toward Poulsbo and hang a right at the gas station at the top of the hill.... not sure I would venture down into silverdale.

that is my thought... I say avoid trouble and stick with where you know it is safe.

amann1
10-21-08, 12:21 PM
There's a signed bike route that connects Bremerton to Poulsbo through Silverdale (Kitsap Bike Plan (http://www.kitsapgov.com/pw/bikeplan.htm)). Unfortunately, it ends abruptly when you enter Silverdale and doesn't start back up again until you leave town. It seems pretty obvious to me that the county wants to give the impression that it promotes alternative forms of transportation by putting "Bike Route" signs on roads that already have wide shoulders.

But getting through Silverdale on a bicycle isn't something the county has bothered to consider. The sidewalk is too dangerous because there are so many business entrances. The street is dangerous because the traffic is so heavy, the lanes aren't wide, and many Silverdale drivers are ignorant toward cycling, health, courtesy, morals, etc.

I ride in the street whenever I go through Silverdale and I just try to ride fast. There are also a couple side streets that can make getting through town easier. On the west side of town, you can take Randall Way. On the east side of town, you can take Mickelberry. Either way, you'll still have to take the lane and deal with drivers, but traffic should be a bit lighter/slower on those roads.

I ride regularly in Kitsap and the only place I've ever been honked at or yelled at is in Silverdale. I agree with bmaxwell that the whole area should be avoided whenever possible.

dogbreathpnw
10-21-08, 01:06 PM
A speed "limit" is a maximum safe speed that may ever be legally used on a given piece of roadway. It is not an indication of expected speed and has no relevance to the actual speeds that people are expected to have on that given piece of roadway.

I think that in general no roadway user should ever expect to travel at a speed greater than that of a fully laden cart drawn by horses.

Your frustration as a motorist occurs when the reality catches up with you that a motor vehicle is truly a modern inconvenience and that you could have gotten there just as quickly if you had left the automobile at home and used a bicycle. This occurs not only when you encounter a bicyclist but when you are faced with a large number of other vehicles (i.e., rush hour traffic).

If it is acceptable to be angry with a bicyclist because they are slower than you, is it acceptable for me to be angry with you when you slow me down in my 300 horsepower sports car?

Read Bob Mionske's book. The public right to the roads has been interpreted as all of us proceeding on the road at a rate of speed appropriate for our vehicle, not a single rate of speed posted by a speed limit sign.

As more people realize that they are funding Al Q'aida via their gas dollars, I expect you will see more people using alternate conveyances on the public roadways, and your automobile will become more and more inconvenient. Get used to it!


I am amazed how bicyclist seem that they have the right to be on the road and when they exercise there right they wonder why other motorist get upset. Ever drive a car and wonder why the speed limit is 60 mph and the person in front of you is going 40mph? It is frustrating that one person who has the right to be on the road does and effects everyone else. <snip>

Butcher
10-22-08, 11:02 PM
If you are going 20mph on the freeway you would be ticketed for obstructing traffic. Check out the laws. There are several states that have a minimum speed limit.
Don't get me wrong. I believe we can all use the roads. Bicyclist and drivers need to share the road. If you can make someones life easier by moving over, then you should [law or no law]. If it is safer to take another route including the sidewalk then you should. Life is too sweet and precious to be a road hog because you can.

amann1
10-23-08, 10:16 AM
If you are going 20mph on the freeway you would be ticketed for obstructing traffic. Check out the laws. There are several states that have a minimum speed limit.
Don't get me wrong. I believe we can all use the roads. Bicyclist and drivers need to share the road. If you can make someones life easier by moving over, then you should [law or no law]. If it is safer to take another route including the sidewalk then you should. Life is too sweet and precious to be a road hog because you can.The section of road where the MIL was yelled at has:
* 2 lanes in each direction so all drivers can pass easily
* center 2-way turn lane, giving drivers even more space
* sidewalks on both sides, but are dangerous because of lots of busy business entrances
* speed limit of 35 (maybe 30?), so a cyclist won't be going too much slower than everyone else
* several stoplights (about 7 in one mile), so a cyclist will often catch up to any drivers that pass

But it's also near a shopping mall, a military base, and is the center of a somewhat rural area. So there'll be plenty of young, uninformed, intolerant, and/or self-centered anti-cyclist drivers around to yell, honk, or just get angry. The cyclist in the OP's example didn't do anything wrong, shouldn't have been on the sidewalk, wasn't holding anyone up, and probably couldn't have been ticketed for anything.

Fazhu
10-23-08, 09:08 PM
That's right amann1, I keep up with traffic pretty well and definitely do not hold up traffic nor was my mother-in-law when she was yelled at. Since my original post I have taken the route several times and am convinced that it is much safer to ride on the street than the sidewalk. Thanks all for the responses.

bmaxwell
10-23-08, 11:26 PM
fazhu again I say you are a brave soul... I drive the area you are talking about and the folks are nuts... lots of young drivers also... perhaps what happens sometimes is that drivers don't pay attention to what they are doing and not looking for cyclists ... they end up getting suprised and startled so instead of looking at themselves as the problem they yell at the exterior scape goat.

Just a thought.

So Fazu you are in Chico I am at Island Lake mtnwkr is near the fair grounds... who else comes in here from this area... oh there was also amann1 are there more of us central kitsap folks out there?

mtnwkr
10-25-08, 02:21 AM
Am I the only one who uses the MUP to get through town(Clear creek trail)? There's no traffic and its a nice little ride. The trail system is pretty large actually. Check out the map! (http://www.clearcreektrail.org/map.htm)

Fazhu
10-25-08, 02:48 PM
I regularly use the Clear creek trail north of 303 but i've never used it to the south. Are we allowed on it with bikes? That would sure be cool and I really appreciate the suggestion. I'll give it a try. Thanks mtnwkr.

Russ
01-15-09, 08:03 AM
So Fazu you are in Chico I am at Island Lake mtnwkr is near the fair grounds... who else comes in here from this area... oh there was also amann1 are there more of us central kitsap folks out there?

One more here - I live near the Fairgrounds and commute to Jackson Park via Tracyton Blvd, Bucklin Hill, and Silverdale/Chico Way. I ride around Silverdale a lot. I try to avoid Silverdale Way in the vicinity of the mall - too much traffic, no shoulders whatsoever.

In my opinion, the most dangerous stretch in this entire area is where Bucklin Hill crosses Clear Creek. Five lanes funneling into two across the bridge, and that left turn prohibiting "curb" at Levin prevents cars from swinging over the centerline to pass. That's the one place where I'll occasionally take the sidewalk.

navyrider
01-15-09, 08:57 AM
My .02.... From Silverdale Way (New Berry) till NW Bucklin Hill Rd the lanes are more than ample for Cars to go around a cyclist. Hell the shoulders are actually not bad.... Anywere north of that towards the Mall is a Death Trap. Regardless of the center lanes (to which cars can go around you). There are some go arounds but then your dealing with Mall traific or Costco buisness area Trafic. The Kitsap Trails Start off of Ridgecrest Ave and it's mostly all dirt and slightly hilly till you get to the 303 onramp bypass, to which it it's paved all the way out to Trigger Ave (One of Sub Base Bangors gates). I run cross country on those paths all the time, it's not a really a Mt. Bike area.
I'm all about cycling in Silverdale but I don't want to end up like that poor SOB from PSCC who died on Bond road a few years back.
In the End somebody yelled at someone and they got butt hurt. We all know It's not against the law to ride in the area in question but in the relam of cycling Darwinsim and the amount of traffice that goes through there during the daytime It's best to avoid that area whenever possible.
BTW I grew up in Silverdale and visit my folks live in Tacyton on weekends from Whidbey twice a month. Come up here if you want a good ride with less drama.

ngateguy
01-15-09, 09:23 AM
I usually ride in the street on my comute, but I have been known to jump on the sidewalk. Part of my commute takes me up 7th Ave NE from the BG trail to the bus stop at the freeway om NE 45th. After months of taking lanes and getting yelled at and drivers not safely passing me I conceeded. Now on the stretch of my commute I ride the sidewalk. Yes I know I have the "right" to be in the street, but I would rather live another day than be right.

crackerdog
01-29-09, 12:23 PM
Do something about it. Call the local government and ask politely about the situation. Most governments in the NW are concerned about safety of bicyclists. If more people call about bicycling, it becomes a larger factor in roadway design.

Andy-JCL-
01-29-09, 05:19 PM
Get that traffic law, make some number amount of stickers with it and slap it on them cars.

bmaxwell
01-30-09, 05:17 AM
The problem around the mall is there is just no where to expand, it is the so called concrete jungle there and all the land has been developed. The amount of traffic in Silverdale can be amazing during business hours, the are just so many businesses there to attract drivers. I would love to see more bike lanes around the area or something like the Burke Gillman trail on this side of the water, perhaps a trail from Tracyton to Silverdale to Chico, to West Bremerton maybe stick close to the water to avoid so many hills. I mean have a few hills but avoid the killer hills so that anyone can get out and go for a long ride and enjoy it no matter what there ability may be. That is my .02 for what its worth... if someone wants to propose such an idea I would support it.

navyrider
02-03-09, 09:57 PM
The problem around the mall is there is just no where to expand, it is the so called concrete jungle there and all the land has been developed. The amount of traffic in Silverdale can be amazing during business hours, the are just so many businesses there to attract drivers. I would love to see more bike lanes around the area or something like the Burke Gillman trail on this side of the water, perhaps a trail from Tracyton to Silverdale to Chico, to West Bremerton maybe stick close to the water to avoid so many hills. I mean have a few hills but avoid the killer hills so that anyone can get out and go for a long ride and enjoy it no matter what there ability may be. That is my .02 for what its worth... if someone wants to propose such an idea I would support it.


There is trail as I've stated in a previous post.

http://clearcreektrail.org/map.htm

It's doable on a mt bike. Someone on a road bike with high end wheels and tires would proably not want to ride the section from Ridgecrest drive or behind the bowling alley to the merger by Hyw #3, it's mainly all dirt. If you go on this trail you'll wind up on Silverdale Way and to which you'll have more than enough shoulder to continue your ride Northbound.
In order to go around the the Mall or the center of Silverdale, while comming from the south off of Newberry, and looking at a map of the area i'd go left on to NW Lowell ST (across from Silverdale Cyclery), left on NW Anderson, Right on Old Frontier and then a Right on Half Mile road to Clear Creek. It will add only about .5 miles to the total route. If you have to go up to Silverdale way, this route will add aother 1.5 miles but you will have to go up Clear Creek and then right on NW MOUNTAIN VIEW road. You will bypass all the center Silverdale/Mall/Costco traffic.
As far as a trail comming from Tracyton, it would have to go pretty far inland, at least East of Tracyton Blvd NW. My parents live on the water off of Kint Rd, I don't think they'd give any easment to the county to build a trail through their precious waterfront property. LOL>...

bizzz111
02-04-09, 08:58 AM
No matter how you cut it, if you live off of James [which I do] there is no way to get home safely without taking the sidewalk. Which makes me a firm believer that taking the lane, even if you are right, is not the best bet to get to your destination safely.

no way to get home without taking the sidewalk???

I live off of james and I haven't ever ridden on a sidewalk. Going home (up the hill) I take the interurban trail until smith street, take the lane until I hit the bike path that starts when it turns into canyon drive going up the hill. Then I take a left (walk the bike across at the intersection) onto 94th and take the lane up 248th (actually half of it is on the shoulder which is protected by a curb). If you need to cut across, you can just stick on 94th which has a 25mph max speed limit.

That gets you to the top of the hill and you have a multitude of options (bike lanes, back roads) from there if you are going further east.

The only place I could think you would want to ride on the sidewalk is if you stayed on canyon drive where the bike lane runs out (still going up the hill). No real turn outs or drive ways along that stretch. However I would probably take the lane once I got to the top of the hill where there are tons of driveways.

STSCS
02-05-09, 12:12 PM
Another CK rider here. I've had one too many close calls on Silverdale Way to ride it anymore. It's to the point of walking my bike down that road before I ride it again. As stated earlier...there is inherent risk when we ride on highly populated roadways, this road is your ticket for an accident. Not worth it for me.

Butcher
02-06-09, 09:34 PM
no way to get home without taking the sidewalk???

I live off of james and I haven't ever ridden on a sidewalk. Going home (up the hill) I take the interurban trail until smith street, take the lane until I hit the bike path that starts when it turns into canyon drive going up the hill. Then I take a left (walk the bike across at the intersection) onto 94th and take the lane up 248th (actually half of it is on the shoulder which is protected by a curb). If you need to cut across, you can just stick on 94th which has a 25mph max speed limit.

That gets you to the top of the hill and you have a multitude of options (bike lanes, back roads) from there if you are going further east.

The only place I could think you would want to ride on the sidewalk is if you stayed on canyon drive where the bike lane runs out (still going up the hill). No real turn outs or drive ways along that stretch. However I would probably take the lane once I got to the top of the hill where there are tons of driveways.

I do not think you understand I REALLY live off James St. I have to take James St. to get to my house. My road starts on James and ends on James. So being that I live off James St. I have to go on James to get to my house. I have never gone down the street but if I did I would have no problems taking the lane. I do not usually ride on sidewalks but I do believe there are times that it is best. I did most of my bike riding in Tokyo Japan so I usually do not worry about cars and how close they get. I have never been hit and do not plan to get hit.

Sunny1952
02-11-09, 03:23 PM
Let's face it, Seattle's a cosmopolitan city, we get a lot of people here from a wide range of states, countries, cultures and backgrounds; that isn't the case in the rest of the state. When you've got a lot of different people in the same place people tend to be more accommodating. People who aren't used to cyclists are often put out by having to share the road with them, I experienced A LOT of this living in Eastern Washington. The closest thing I can liken it to is Skiing and snowboarding. Way way back in dinosaur times when I started skiing, there was no such thing as a snowboarder, but all of a sudden twenty, maybe twenty five years ago, we started seeing them on our slopes and I as a skier was upset, I felt they didn't belong there, that they ruined the experience for skiers and that they had no right to use SKIareas. They didn't move like a skier, they were slower, always in the middle of the ski-run...certain resorts even banned them. Bad blood built up on both sides MOSTLY for two simple reasons, adherance to the "skiier responsibility code" (rules of the road) and a lack of familiarity with the mechanics of snowboarding v. skiing. Any of this sound familiar? I guess my point is, once we all got used to each other things calmed down but that doesn't change the fact that a snowboarder doesn't move the same way as a skiier any more than a bike behaves the same way as a car. Not everyone who drives a car rides a bike, not every skiier has ever strapped on a board, so it's sometimes difficult to anticipate where someone's going to go. In areas where motorists don't see bikes much, they're not as "Understanding," they'll feel putout, as far as they're concerned a cyclist falls into the same cattagory as a deer.

How I as a cyclist (and sometimes motorist) try to make things easier on myself:

1) Visibility! Bright jacket/bag/pans/lights, if they can see me, then I'm less likely to get merged into/squished.
2) Common sense, if I know a stretch of road has little or no shoulder or bail out areas, I try to find another route that is less dangerous. If I can't well then, that's what rule #1 is for.
3) Be polite but be vigilant: As hard as it is for me to do so when I feel wronged, I try my utmost to accomodate motorists, particularly agressive ones before escalatations. I keep a pen and waterproof write in the rain note-book in my bar-bag to take down a vehicle description and licence plate incase things DO get out of hand. Someone can swear at you all they want, only you can decide how you'll handle it.
4) Being prepared: an ounce of prevention is the best remedy. Keeping your bike in good working order and keeping yourself in good-working order are very important when it comes to avoiding obstacles and dangerous situations.
5) Obey the rules: If I don't obey the laws, I can't expect anyone else to.

Catgrrl70
02-11-09, 05:00 PM
Way way back in dinosaur times when I started skiing, there was no such thing as a snowboarder, but all of a sudden twenty, maybe twenty five years ago...

Hey, wait a minute! That was me! Dinosaur...oh, I am getting old...