Road Bike Racing - Hincapie, inspiration or underachiever

I thought this might make for some lively chat. I feel George doesn't get the credit due him. We talk about the issues that may arise with T-mobile...too many chiefs...then some bash on poor ole Georgie as an over-rated rider. I feel he is underappreciated by those dirty bashers...lol. I mean imagine it...he didn't win Paris Roubaix in 2001 when up against 3 Domo riders...what a loser. I'll save some of my other comments for later in this post. By the way...everyone knows that Brad Johnson is a much better QB than Jim Kelly...after all he won a Super Bowl....he must be.

George is a very strong rider who at one time had the capability of winning one day races. He reminds me of Duclos-Lasalle though George seems to have trouble being at the front at the critical moment or he may be like Ulrich and lack the tactical smarts to know where to be.

I don't know if I'd call him a super-domestique but he is an overly strong support rider.

In my opinion Hincapie is one of the best if not the best domestique in the peloton. The fact that he can also ride the classics is a plus. So he has not won a "major", big deal. He has finished in a lot of the classics higher than supposedly more talented riders.
George generally gives up most of his season to ride for Lance in the TDF. I feel on any other team Hincapie would garner more respect and not be tagged an underachiever.

After further thought, George may have the strength to win some big races. It's just that he seems to not be able to make the big effort when the chips are down. That may be why he's been labled as an underachiever.

Well he seems to ride to have his form in July rather than April. If April was his sole preparation, maybe he would have more wins eh?

In the races Ive seen where he goes for the sprint it always seems he starts his sprint way too soon and then ends up in 6th or 7th. Ive seen this a couple of times so it shows that he can get up there and stay up front but it seems he needs to learn to time his sprints better.

I think George would have won a stage or two in the TdF by now, but Postal riders are not allowed to go in any of the breakaways during the Tour.

Gee he lost P-N by 46 seconds what a looser, wish I could do that!

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IMO George is a great rider who either through bad luck,bad tactics or a lack of team support has not been able to win a classic - other than GW of course but does that really count?-.
But he is one of the few like Zabel & OGrady who are strong from April to October. He also is willing to work himself into the ground for his teammates.
A real classy rider indeed!

Ekimov impresses me more than Georgie ever did. Now there's one tough rider.

Ekimov impresses me more than Georgie ever did. Now there's one tough rider.

Wow, he's a loser too...remember him at Paris-Roubaix last April?.... :D

I get a hoot out of the CATV evaluations of these professionals.

If he sucked, he would not be riding for Lance.

Brent pointed out his form's better in July. Exactly. He gets paid a LOT of money to be that way. That's his job. Anything else he picks up along the way is gravy.

Word is the bonus Lance pays his guys when they win the Tour is more than he'd make winning other races.

He knows what his job is....

Eki's tough and won a lot of big stuff...but he goes to battle with George at his side and vice versa.

Team mates...and why Postal wins so much.

ALOT of riders get second place. If Hincapie inspires you than that's great. He is a great rider but he is not on the top tier and he is not a finisher like Van Petegem, Bartoli, Dekker, Boogerd or the dozens of other better riders that have won Classics, stages or championships.

Ekimov is a class above Hincapie. He is a WC, a Olympic champ and a true finisher.

Hincapie is a super-domestique not a finisher.

Very nice summary, RacerX.

And you forgot the most important part. He does what he is paid to do, and in doing so sacrifices himself. He rides and guides LA in July. I don't call that a loser. I call that selfless.

I'm surprised by the passion expressed in this thread. Hincappie's a great rider. I think this debate started when people began commenting on OLN's treatment of George as the next coming of Eddie. "He's placing himself in a position to steal this stage!" Or "This stage suits him well." The problem is George rarely proves them right. There was a bunch sprint last year where George was briefly off the front and by the tone of Paul and Phil's voice you'd have thought he was in position to win the worlds. Of course he was swallowed up shortly after.

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IMO George is a great rider who either through bad luck,bad tactics or a lack of team support has not been able to win a classic - other than GW of course but does that really count?-.

Ghent Wevelgem, or Gent-Wevelgem, depending on your locale, is a classic.

There are nine original one-day monuments in this sport and Wevelgem is most certainly one of them.

Yeah, there are the 5 monuments:

Paris Roubaix
Milan San Remo
Tour of Flanders
LBL
Tour of Lombardy

and then 8 or so other major classics. GW being one of them.

*edited to say that I really need to find more exciting work*

The reason I feel that you hear so much about George on American TV during the classics season is twofold. One he is usually the only American near the front. Two he is riding for the only Div 1 American team. I remember last year during Paris Robaix when it looked like Ekimov had a chance. All OLN could talk about was Ekimov. Pieri and Van Petegem were barely mentioned.
I am sure in every country where cycling is broadcast the nationalistic fervor comes out with each countries stations trying to put the best face on their countries riders. The TDF is broadcast by French TV and everytime Jackie Durand goes on one of his kamikaze runs you would think that he will win the race by miles. Never happens though. Its just the networks trying to keep the "home folk" interested and tuned in.

And you forgot the most important part. He does what he is paid to do, and in doing so sacrifices himself. He rides and guides LA in July. I don't call that a loser. I call that selfless.

most have no idea what you are talking about....unless they have raced over a hundred miles at a time with a team, they don't understand.

you are correct.

I think much of George's potential has been blanketed by the team he rides for. It's very possible that on another team, he may have a more illustrious palmares. He has finished as high as 5th in the TDF points competition.

I think Gilbert Duclos-LaSalle was a much better rider than Hincapie. By the time he was the age George is now, he had more than twice as many victories, including the overall victory in Paris-Nice. He then raced for another ten years, and won his first Paris Roubaix when he was almost 7 years older than George is now. He also won 4 six day races in his career and could smoke in a sprint.

Lars Michaelsen is probably a more similar rider to this point. One classic win, Gent-Wevelgem, and numerous less significant victories. Big diesel, a fast finisher but not a top sprinter.

George may surprise us this spring. I can't ever remember him riding this well this early.

It's pretty easy to sit back and judge when you watch it on TV. Try just one of these stages/races at a racing pace and then continue with your comments. He gets my full respect for the great job that he and all the others do.

i've said it before, and i'm going to say it again, because it's the simplest way i've found to illustrate what i think of hincapie.

he's as strong as an ox, but as dumb as a pile of bricks.

i wish i could be 1/4th as strong as he is on the bike, i'll be the last person to say he doesn't have the ability to do well. it's just that i think he's one of those types of riders that needs to have their hand held. seriously. how many times has he just sat there while a very scary-looking breakaway rode off the front? how many times has he started his sprint WAY too early? he did just that last week in Paris-Nice.

Outside of the U.S., he probably doesn't get the credit he deserves. He has plenty of respect among his peers. I've always thought though that Phil, Paul and Bob maybe give him to much credit. They pump him up to do great things and he never follows through.

Maybe part of it (OLN hyping him) is that he is on USPS, which sponsors OLN?

...but as dumb as a pile of bricks.

Sad...

Seems to me that George was one of the few...very few who consistently made the breaks in ParisNice. Seems to me some of the more capable riders names thrown around here consistently missed those breaks. George makes an awful lot of breaks...more than most. He does seem to sprint too early at times...perhaps, since he trains more for improving his climbing and TT as his team demands, he chooses to go early as his sprint may lack a little, (kinda like an Ekimov). Maybe not dumb as a brick but " smarter than the average...Fore". I stand strong that he may not be a top sprinter...but is a top rider. Strong as an Ox, climbs just below the little guys, sacrafices and buries himself for the team, finishes the TDF year after year near the top in overall team and TTT. He's the kinda rider every DS wants on the team, every rider wants him on their team, and those on the sidelines and not in the trenches lament what he hasn't done while those in the know praise him. I would bet he holds back a little in the TT during the TDF just to have a little more for the team. You don't see Van Petegem so important to his teams overall performance...a great rider but a cherry picker compared to George. He was also considered an underachiever until the last 2 years. Man I love a good debate!

I think it´s been said before, Hincapie is a good and solid rider, he may could win a spring classic like Paris-Roubaix, but he definately is no champion, no campionissimo.
I doubt he´ll ever win a major stage race. No, never.

the simplest way i've found to illustrate what i think of hincapie.

dumb as a pile of bricks.

Just curious if you have started any companies, built any organizations using the strength of your name, provided any jobs...things like that??

Hincapie Sports (http://www.hincapiesports.com)

the things people think up with no facts....it's unbelievable...

do you know or have you ever met George and spoken with him??

I didn't think so.

Ok, so it's been decided: George is a great team rider but a mediocre individual rider.

How can you call any Division 1 rider mediocre? Hincapie's "palmares" are probably better than 3/4 of the other riders in the peloton. He is no Lance, Jan, or Miguel. He knows this. He is a team player in a team sport. In football the QB gets all of the credit and glory. In baseball its the pitcher. Can these games be played without the other players?
If Hincapie was shopped on the market can you think of one team that would not want him? And why would they want him, because he is a team player who gives his 100% plus every time he's on the bike.

Ok. He's a slightly above average individual rider.

Agreed that he is a great team rider.

Maybe part of it (OLN hyping him) is that he is on USPS, which sponsors OLN?

Then OLN would do better to focus on Ekimov. A proven winning rider who rides on an American team.

Then OLN would do better to focus on Ekimov. A proven winning rider who rides on an American team.

OK, then it's decided....we shoudn't watch any more single day bike racing until there is an American who is a good enough individual rider on an American team that can win. :D ;)

Could it be that the early sprints are part of some stragity to tire out the other teams so that LA can win or for some other reason not that GH can't decide when to sprint for his best chance to win. It would tickle me if after LA retired GH started winning.

Joe

If he is a slightly above average rider in the peloton, then how would you rank yourself in the peloton of your chosen profession Laggard. Now remember ranked against the best in the world. Please search for the appropriate description.

I'm a slightly above average husband.

By your standards I see you lack some humility. That would put you in the top 1/8% of the top 1% of all husbands in the world. Perhaps you could elaborate on your husbandly palmares as I would love to strive to such lofty heights....lol. And do you have a profession which allows less subjective analysis?

I can tell this thread is near it's end...but I have another!

ok, a few things here if I may.
The statement I made a few threads back (about OLN)
was they treated Georgie like the second coming of
Roger De Vlaeminck not the second coming of Eddy.
OLN sponsors USPS not the other way around.
Georgie gets bashed alot on internet forums, mostly
for his non results. My take on it is yeah he does make
alot of the breaks, but not all the significant ones.
He seems to me to be 1 break off the winning breakaway
at alot of races (like stage 6 P/N ),
were he in the final sprint he'd kill em.
I don't think its a lack of smarts, maybe a lack of tactics
which would reflect on the director sportif. Bruyneel is
a brialliant tactician for grand tours, not so classics.
Give Georgie a better DS and I'd bet he would do better.
personally, I like him, he is a class act.
Marty

By your standards I see you lack some humility. That would put you in the top 1/8% of the top 1% of all husbands in the world. Perhaps you could elaborate on your husbandly palmares as I would love to strive to such lofty heights....lol.

I took the garbage out last night without even being asked! :p

Laggard....how is it that you rank Voight as the MVP of Paris Nice...not just his team but for the whole race. George rides a similar ride, albeit with less pulls, and ranks as a plain bellied sneetch. These are two of the most similar type riders in the peloton...foundations of their teams...I just don't get it??

I gave him MVP based on how much he helped his team leader and eventual winner of the race. Maybe it should be most valuable team player.

i don't know, marty, i'm not sure it's so much a question of tactics as it is sheer determination. i think the 2002 paris roubaix is a good example of that. what it took to win that race was museeuw's willingness to lay it all out on the line and take a chance on an attack 40 km from the finish. i can't imagine hincapie ever doing something like that. he's just too cautious. sure, in the 2001 p-r, domo had him and dierckxsens completely covered, but ludo kept begging george to come and play, and the two of them had nothing to lose by pressing an attack. but hincapie just sat in/ that's not tactics, that's a lack of killer instinct and a lack of what the french call elan -- what jaja and dudu had in amazing quantities.

he is too easily discouraged. when he crashed into the ditch in 2002 p-r, he just gave up. boonen's performance showed that the gap to museeuw was bridge-able, and with the two of them working together with wesemann, they could have been in on the kill. but hincapie sulked.

he has the strength and the intelligence to win, but despite what phil and paul say, he doesn't seem to have the heart to win. maybe after all these years of carrying water, he just doesn't believe in himself.

mateo,

I don't disagree here, and I have a suspicion that
(may have been mentioned previously) under the tutelage of someone like Bjarne Riis Georgie could be
a player. Agree he doesn't seem to have that killer
instinct of say a Museeuw but good tactician can make
up for alot of that (at least it seems that way to me).

Marty

Ghent Wevelgem, or Gent-Wevelgem, depending on your locale, is a classic.

There are nine original one-day monuments in this sport and Wevelgem is most certainly one of them.

KingRene,I most certainly agree. I'm not sure a lot of people understand this. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I don't see Hincapie as some sort of "Super Domestique" but a damn good rider who on his day and given the right circumstances can win on any day.

KingRene, I most certainly agree. I'm not sure a lot of people understand this. That's the point I'm trying to make.


Ahhhh, understood! :)

Poor old Hincapie is being hammered for not being in the Armstrong league. Well few people are. The guy is a super domestique, Sean Yates with a better sprint but without the TT ability. Being given his head in early season races is his loyalty bonus and the team's inexpensive insurance policy.

As a rider, Paul Sherwen was the type who could wring just a little more from his body when riding for someone else. He lacked just that last bit of class to win for himself, he knew it and his confidence suffered from that realisation. Perhaps Hincapie is in that mould?

I know Americans love a winner, nothing wrong with that. By comparison, the British fans adored and identified with Yates and merely respected Chris Boardman, who was by far the more successful (and still nowhere approaching the Palmares of Armstrong).

Hincapie is an inspiration and an underachiever. He chooses to serve in a team which can propel a classier rider to lucrative victories. That is Pro road racing, in essence. Doesn't preclude George from one day landing a classic win, though...........there's always an element of luck, and he's strong enough to sometimes be around when the crucial break goes.

Just curious if you have started any companies, built any organizations using the strength of your name, provided any jobs...things like that??

Hincapie Sports (http://www.hincapiesports.com)



i'm probably mistaken about this, but i believe it's George's brother Rich that actually runs the business. George is highly immersed in product testing and design, i'm sure, but when it comes to the day-to-day operations i can't imagine him being that involved.



do you know or have you ever met George and spoken with him??

I didn't think so.

i haven't, you're right, but a teammate of mine (who's a fan of George) has interviewed him in the past and came back with the same view of him that i have.