Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Could we be Nader'd?

This morning, I was late to work. Well, late for the time I like to arrive. So, I was hammering in. I came up on another cyclist, and, despite being behind, I slowed up to say hello. Something dictates being friendly to a fellow rider.

He commented on how quitely I had ridden up, and I pointed to the lack of a derailer, etc. He looked me over carefully, and announced that he didn't want me to ride near him because the bike I was riding was unsafe. He was polite enough about it, but was pretty strong on it. So I took off.

I realize that this is just one person, but I'm wondering if FG preferences could be "Ralph Nader'd" ala the Corvair. One person or a few deciding it was unsafe, and then moving towards some sort of ban.

Has anyone else considered this?

Maybe he was the ped you ran over and the sight of your bike induced a flashback.

I think that bikes are pretty far below the radar for that kind of legal enforcement. Most cops around here don't care what you do on a bike (run lights etc) as long as you don't plow into stuff.

I think the other rider is misinformed like many consumers out there.

A couple of years ago here in Boston they were thinking about making fixed gears illeagel. If it went through I was going to put a coaster brake arm on my bike and tell the officials that it was my brake.

bring it

hahahah. 165, that picture is elite.

i feel safer on my fixed gear since i have to pay attention to so many other environmental factors and don't get "brain ********" from not pedaling and just hanging out on my bike.

re: "One person or a few deciding it was unsafe, and then moving towards some sort of ban."

We control our own destiny there. The average joe, including politicians and policemen, have no idea what a 'fixed gear' is. In their world, there are '10 speeds' and 'coaster bikes'. They have no idea that your bike isnt a 'coaster bike'.

However, if the fg crowd starts making the public more aware by pointint out that our bike 'doesnt have brakes' (which is already illegal in most states), i guess the brakeless set deserves what we get.

Dont know why else a fg would be deemed 'dangerous'.

I was riding home after a 65 mile road loop the other day and was on one of the local paved bike paths for a 10 mile leg of it, and came up on some guy who was all decked out in a touring bike and bags and Bob Trailer and all the rest of the things necessary to that life style and passed him when he said to me. "You really should call out that you are going to pass someone or you might get slammed down by the person you are passing". The ironic thing was that I did call out that I was passing but what with the high head wind and noise of the Bob Trailer he was hauling he didn't hear me. So rather than try to explain to him that I did call out I just said "That's why I ride a Track bike with no brakes", "So I can avoid the Amateurs". Needless to say he was not amused and I lost what he was saying in the rush of wind as I left him in the dust. Not all people who ride bikes are brethren. Some are what I would call Jerks on 2 wheels.

fixedgearhead

Fixedgearhead - very nicely taken care of.

nader's cool [or atleast less evil than the others].

wasn't he running on a $10/hr minimum wage platform amongst other things?

fssb
sparky

The chances of us being Nader'd are so incredibly minimal I can't even begin to calculate them. It would take a sudden explosion of fixies into mass, and in specific, kid, culture for this to happen.

Let's look at the record of the CPSC and bicycles for starters. The CSPC insisted reflectors be put on bikes, for example, but oddly made no insistence for lights. Frankly, lights are so much better than reflectors it's not funny. I'll ride a bike w/o reflectors at night if I'm running a few blinkies.

Or the "crotch-ripper" shifters popular on kid's bikes in the seventies. The CPSC banned 'em, but okayed the "gut-ripper" stem mounted shifters popular on so many bike boom ten speeds. And they never went after the "suicide levers", which have absolutely no braking power. Go figure, but gut rippers and suicide levers werem't on those cool bannana-seat Huffys we used to ride.

So unless some Japanese cartoon featuring cool Dragon Ball Z characters or cute cuddly Pokeman figures riding fixed gear suddenly becomes popular amoung the under fifteen set, I think we're perfectly safe. But if you see a fixie at Wal-Mart decorated with cute little liscenced characters, we're all doomed. Then it'll be like the Simpsons, where someone yells "but what about the children?" at random town meetings. Yes, doomed, I say.

Let's look at the record of the CPSC and bicycles for starters. The CSPC insisted reflectors be put on bikes, for example, but oddly made no insistence for lights. Frankly, lights are so much better than reflectors it's not funny. I'll ride a bike w/o reflectors at night if I'm running a few blinkies.
Regardless of what you think is better, reflectors are passisive and always reflecting. Not the same for your blinkie when it runs out of juice. Your analogy, though understood, is flawed.

I think the other rider is misinformed like many consumers out there.

Misinformed, definately. What did he think, that your lack of brakes was going to affect him? Was he thinking that just because you ride a fix, that makes you suicidal? What a tool.

Just to be fair to the other cyclist in Willy's original post, I think all bets are off if he actually knew who it was. I mean let's face it, if I saw Karstens riding up behind me--regardless of the bike he was on--I think I would give him puh-lenty of leeway. Ya never know what's going on in that boy's head.

I thought getting Nader'd meant something about shifting the electoral votes from one candidate to the other.

if I saw Karstens riding up behind me--

You'd crash because you weren't looking where you were going.

And out of all possible luck, it'd be a pedestrian. Just for my shere joy.

:D


I'm not crazy, nor insane.

He looked me over carefully, and announced that he didn't want me to ride near him because the bike I was riding was unsafe. He was polite enough about it, but was pretty strong on it. So I took off.

You should have just said "eff you slow-poke", then rubbed his tire and made him wreck :fight:

If it comes to that, I think, you will see an upsurge in the growth of the Abu Campag faction of the Popular front for the Liberation of Gears. This is a little known underground bicycle society that I am hear-by aquatinting you with.
We will contact you if you are truly worthy of enrollment.


Abu Abas Abot,
Ababamus Abatus,
Abant

This is a little known underground bicycle society that I am hear-by aquatinting you with.
We will contact you if you are truly worthy of enrollment.



I eagerly await contact.


William (lover of secret society stuff) Karstens

You should have just said "eff you slow-poke", then rubbed his tire and made him wreck

I'm in the Military.

He was, in all likely hood, a higher ranking enlisted or senior officer.

Ramming him, etc, while not my style in the first place, would likely be detrimental to my ability to pay my mortgage, or maintain health care.

And believe it or not, I do respect rank. (Despite my demeanor here).

I'm in the Military.

He was, in all likely hood, a higher ranking enlisted or senior officer.

Ramming him, etc, while not my style in the first place, would likely be detrimental to my ability to pay my mortgage, or maintain health care.

And believe it or not, I do respect rank. (Despite my demeanor here).
I was just kidding. I wouldn't advocate running another cyclist down simply because they were:
a. ill-informed
b. an unfriendly jacka$$

I was just kidding. I wouldn't advocate running another cyclist down simply because they were:
a. ill-informed
b. an unfriendly jacka$$
Yeah, I know.. but for those that wouldn't get yours, nor mine, I include the disclaimer.

I am curious about fixed gears and mostly reading this to learn about them and single speeds. Anyway, I doubt we have much to fear from Nader or the likes. I think in many areas riding a bicycle without a brake is already illegal. There might be local zealots who attempt to get the cops to enforce compliance, but i suspect such efforts tend to be short lived. As for actually making riding fixed gear (with or without brakes) illegal on the streets is tougher case... after all for the most part I think most law makers tend to lump all bicycles together wheather they are a fixed gear, a mountain bike or loaded touring bike. Most people just are not aware enough of fixed gears (I know I wasn't aware of them outside the velodrome until I came across Sheldon Brown's web site).

--
Bill

As for actually making riding fixed gear (with or without brakes) illegal on the streets is tougher case...
A fixed gear does have a brake. If it doesn't, it's not a fixed gear.

A fixed gear does have a brake. If it doesn't, it's not a fixed gear.


Exactly. Something I keep trying to tell those in the local group. To little end tho.

Dave

I was riding home after a 65 mile road loop the other day and was on one of the local paved bike paths for a 10 mile leg of it, and came up on some guy who was all decked out in a touring bike and bags and Bob Trailer and all the rest of the things necessary to that life style and passed him when he said to me. "You really should call out that you are going to pass someone or you might get slammed down by the person you are passing". The ironic thing was that I did call out that I was passing but what with the high head wind and noise of the Bob Trailer he was hauling he didn't hear me. So rather than try to explain to him that I did call out I just said "That's why I ride a Track bike with no brakes", "So I can avoid the Amateurs". Needless to say he was not amused and I lost what he was saying in the rush of wind as I left him in the dust. Not all people who ride bikes are brethren. Some are what I would call Jerks on 2 wheels.

fixedgearhead

Alright, so this dude you're passing didn't do anything wrong. If he didn't hear you then you didn't notify him that you were passing him. At the very least it was a simple misunderstanding, the type that we all deal with every day and move on.

Then you reacted by calling him an "amateur"?!? So touring cyclists are amateurs and fixies are the real thing?

When does the therapy start?

A fixed gear does have a brake. If it doesn't, it's not a fixed gear.

What is it?

(And please don't say "track bike")

What is it?

(And please don't say "track bike")

What is what?

I reacted to his rather superior attitude. Yes it was a, "Miscommunication", but he was a Jerk none the less. If therapy is needed, look for some guy with an attitude riding a local bike trail with a bob trailer. His attitude indicated he was somehow in the right. I guess we should all have fog horns mounted on our bikes so that in the event somebody doesn't hear us call out, we can rectify their inabilities. Carry that out to it's logical conclusion. It wasn't a slam on touring riders as I do a fair amount of touring myself. It was a slam on Self Appointed Bicycle Police of whatever stripe. I think everybody should ride their own race, and we would all be better off.

Fixedgearhead

What is what?

Originally Posted by William Karsten
"A fixed gear does have a brake. If it doesn't, it's not a fixed gear."

Me:
"What is it?"

The gear itself. Your legs act as the lever and the fixed gear acts as the brake. A more primitive version of the coaster brake you might say.

Dave

Originally Posted by William Karsten
"A fixed gear does have a brake. If it doesn't, it's not a fixed gear."

Me:
"What is it?"
It was my understanding that Fixed Gear applied to the Drive System not the stopping system. I have a couple of Bikes that are converts from road bikes and don't run brakes but have brake holes. They are not Track bikes but are in fact Brakeless fixed gear bikes. QED.


Fixedgearhead

Originally Posted by William Karsten
"A fixed gear does have a brake. If it doesn't, it's not a fixed gear."

Me:
"What is it?"

It's a SS or a coaster.

They are not Track bikes but are in fact Brakeless fixed gear bikes. QED.
Fixedgearhead
CA law says a bike must be equiped with a brake that can cause a skid on dry even pavement. I can lock the rear wheel on my FG and skid. With out shoving my foot in the tire, in the spokes, etc. This is repeatable. Thus, my FG has a brake.

This is my interpratatatatation. Yours, as well as others, may vary.

It was my understanding that Fixed Gear applied to the Drive System not the stopping system. I have a couple of Bikes that are converts from road bikes and don't run brakes but have brake holes. They are not Track bikes but are in fact Brakeless fixed gear bikes. QED.


Fixedgearhead

I agree.

It's a SS or a coaster.

A Single Speed is a bike with a single speed that can coast. It has nothing to do with the brakes, except for the fact that a SS requires brakes.

A fixed gear can have brakes or not, it's still a fixed gear either way.

A Single Speed is a bike with a single speed that can coast. It has nothing to do with the brakes, except for the fact that a SS requires brakes.

A fixed gear can have brakes or not, it's still a fixed gear either way.

Go ahead, split hairs. I'm sure you know what I meant, but only desire to be pendantic, and pick away at any scab you can fine. But, go ahead and split hairs. Just know, it just makes you a comb over freak.

Edit:

I apologize. What I'm trying to say is that a fixed gear with out a "hand brake" is not brakeless, per my opinion. It still has a brake that is operable and fits the discription as required by law.

I'm not sure what your intention is, but based upon previous post, you're some what preditory in your comments. So, I reacted in a manner befiting what you've done in the past.

At any rate, a fixed gear has a brake. If it doesn't. Then it must be a coaster, SS, etc.

My definition. Yours may vary.

And again, I apologize.. I left what I said up above anyway.. 'cause I'm not a post retractor.

At any rate, a fixed gear has a brake. If it doesn't. Then it must be a coaster, SS, etc.


Gotcha. Wasn't trying to being predatory, just honestly thought you were talking about an actual handbrake.

My bad.

As for "my past", I think if you go back and reread that thread you might see (in hindsight) that I was only egging you on due to a pretty heavy duty overreaction type post from you. Whatever, I thought that was done with.

Go ahead, split hairs. I'm sure you know what I meant, but only desire to be pendantic, and pick away at any scab you can fine. But, go ahead and split hairs. Just know, it just makes you a comb over freak.

Edit:

I apologize. What I'm trying to say is that a fixed gear with out a "hand brake" is not brakeless, per my opinion. It still has a brake that is operable and fits the discription as required by law.

I'm not sure what your intention is, but based upon previous post, you're some what preditory in your comments. So, I reacted in a manner befiting what you've done in the past.

At any rate, a fixed gear has a brake. If it doesn't. Then it must be a coaster, SS, etc.

My definition. Yours may vary.

And again, I apologize.. I left what I said up above anyway.. 'cause I'm not a post retractor.
We agree that the drive system is a brake by the nature of back peddling
The single speed without a hand brake is by definition an accident waiting to happen.
As to my being a comb over. I have sported a complete shaved head look for low these many years after the thinning of my hair and the only other option being a comb over. That would have been totally unacceptable. I also have a rather fetching handlebar mustache. On my upper lip, not my bicycle.


Fixedgearhead

Whatever, I thought that was done with.

Exactly, which is why I went the unusual route to apologize. Bygones are that.

"Regardless of what you think is better, reflectors are passisive and always reflecting. Not the same for your blinkie when it runs out of juice."

Here you go, Mr. Karsten... read up on just how effective reflectors are:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/reflectors.html
I'll take a blinkie any day, and run about three. If the batteries on one go, I'm still running two. I do run reflectors on my regular night rides, but they're not primary. Some of my blinkies even double as reflectors. And reflectors are not always on; they need a light source hitting them to be "on". In other words, they need something to actually reflect. No external light source, no on. Incorrect placement, no on. Passive, my foot-- in the way doing nothing is passive, maybe.

But again, fixies are so far down the list they're unlikely canidates for any kind of intervention-- unlike, say, baby strollers.

I remember the last time I bought a new bike from a dealer when I lived in California,1997. It was a Bianchi road bike that was for my wife. When the salesman delivered the bike after the prep, he handed me the reflectors in a small box, that, By law, are required to be installed on all new bikes that are delivered in California. He said, here, you can install these if you want to. I appreciated that even though it was against the then prevailing law. That is one of the examples of naderism run rampant. I think that if they could, they would try to prevent us from doing anything that they viewed as "Dangerous".
I hope we are flying under the radar when it comes to fixed gear bikes. I know that in Boston, there was an attempt to enforce the law on Brakes attached to fixed gear messenger bikes by the State Legislature as a result of somebody accidentally running down a legislator. If there is one somebody you don't want to hit on a brakeless track messenger bike it is a polititian.


Fixedgearhead

I'll take a blinkie any day, and run about three. If the batteries on one go, I'm still running two. I do run reflectors on my regular night rides, but they're not primary. Some of my blinkies even double as reflectors. And reflectors are not always on; they need a light source hitting them to be "on". In other words, they need something to actually reflect. No external light source, no on. Incorrect placement, no on. Passive, my foot-- in the way doing nothing is passive, maybe.

But again, fixies are so far down the list they're unlikely canidates for any kind of intervention-- unlike, say, baby strollers.


You miss the point. A reflector is passive. Doesn't need anything to work other than a light source, and thus meets the requirement of the people who decide.
It's not a matter of which is better, because that's known. (A blinkie, of course).

But, assume the kid who's dad buys a bike at Wallly world. Puts it in the garage. No maintance, etc. He'd blame the company for not having reflectors when the battiers died. Just human nature. A reflect will reflect when shined upon. Which is the situation we are talking abouti.

If there is one somebody you don't want to hit on a brakeless track messenger bike it is a polititian.


Fixedgearhead


Perhaps you want to, just don't want the out come, eh?

:D

Perhaps you want to, just don't want the out come, eh?
a fixie's not going to kill a politician.

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m-82-dvic539.jpg

fssb
sparky

Perhaps you want to, just don't want the out come, eh?

:D
I definitely would like to hit a few. I can't think of any I would like to "hit on". They have been screwing us all rather regularly if you know what I mean.


Fixedgearhead

I remember the last time I bought a new bike from a dealer when I lived in California,1997. It was a Bianchi road bike that was for my wife. When the salesman delivered the bike after the prep, he handed me the reflectors in a small box, that, By law, are required to be installed on all new bikes that are delivered in California. He said, here, you can install these if you want to. I appreciated that even though it was against the then prevailing law. That is one of the examples of naderism run rampant. I think that if they could, they would try to prevent us from doing anything that they viewed as "Dangerous".
I hope we are flying under the radar when it comes to fixed gear bikes. I know that in Boston, there was an attempt to enforce the law on Brakes attached to fixed gear messenger bikes by the State Legislature as a result of somebody accidentally running down a legislator. If there is one somebody you don't want to hit on a brakeless track messenger bike it is a polititian.


Fixedgearhead

i think i remember reading about this, and i don't think it was a politician. i seem to remember it being some CEO/corporate bigwig type. i bet he/she was walking out into the street from between parked cars (which happens all the friggen time in boston, and they walk out RIGHT the hell in front of you and then get the deer-in-headlights syndrome). either that or the messenger just didn't stop at the crosswalk (which also happens a lot), but most of the time they at least slow down at intersections.

maybe the one i read about was much more recent, but i know that the CEO one was responsible for making all the messengers in boston register with the city and carry a license and courier ID with them at all times. and also wear a big old blaze orange and black number patch on their bag...i think they also had to display a little placard on their bikes too. most either don't do either, or they just put the placard in their spokes.

It's been 2 years but they made us wear the big ol reflective number on the bag and a big sharp licence plate on our bike. Sharp corners and all, the thing was the size of an automobile plate. I refused to ever put the reflective number on my bag because I do not know any other private working citizen that needs to do such a thing while they are working.
The guy that got hit was William Spring, I think he had something to do with the schoolboard. It's an easy story to find on the net. The doctors had to put him into a coma for some reason ot other, but the press claimed that it was the offduty messenger that did that to him.

I refused to ever put the reflective number on my bag because I do not know any other private working citizen that needs to do such a thing while they are working.

Prisoners. Military. Police officers.


http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1G1:56413596&refid=ovft_overture_hlth_news

It's been 2 years but they made us wear the big ol reflective number on the bag and a big sharp licence plate on our bike. Sharp corners and all, the thing was the size of an automobile plate. I refused to ever put the reflective number on my bag because I do not know any other private working citizen that needs to do such a thing while they are working.
The guy that got hit was William Spring, I think he had something to do with the schoolboard. It's an easy story to find on the net. The doctors had to put him into a coma for some reason ot other, but the press claimed that it was the offduty messenger that did that to him.
Story (http://www.messengers.org/messville/BST99-1.HTM)