Living Car Free - Isolation...

I was noticing the geographic distribution of friends and people we associate with. It looks to me like being car dependent facilitates ignoring your near neighbors and choosing to only associate with very like minded people who you don't have to come to compromise with. If you take public transport or walk you should perform little courtesies for people you don't know or don't especially like if you do know them, just to make life better. If you're always driving you reduce the amount of compromise with other people. On the other end of the association, spectrum if you depend on the car you can choose to disperse your in group and your near neighbors can remain part of your out-group. Since I became car free I have two in-groups, my neighbors and suburban people dispersed around the metro area. A way to quantify the effect is to look at the geographic distance between you and the nearest person you socialize with. For me and my urban friends it is measured in feet, we visit and hang out with neighbors. For my suburban friends it is more like miles, some have never set foot in their neighbor's homes, not even within the neighborhood. Some who are auto aware will recognize a neighbor's car but not the person in the flesh.

A way to quantify the effect is to look at the geographic distance between you and the nearest person you socialize with.


13955 kms (8672 miles) :D

That is an interesting thought. I particularly picked up on your comment about "you should perform little courtesies for people you don't know...". I was commenting to a friend of mine the other day how it seems people are less and less friendly. When I walk down the side walk and pass someone, I usually say, "hi" or acknowledge them in some way. It's amazing how few people respond.

I recently moved to a rural location and one of my goals is to get back to knowing my neighbors and make friendships with them. In the coming future, we may have to depend on these close strangers and without ties, you may be seen as just another trespasser.

I say hello to my neighbours, and help out with computer and telephone problems from time to time - in exchange, they weed my garden, mow my lawn, and clean my windows! I really get the best end of the deal! I greet people on the bus, and do little things like helping them get their luggage into the luggage rack, giving up my seat for old people, and holding open doors. It takes very little effort, and the reward in sheer smugness is well worth it!

If there's ever a disaster in your area, you and your neighbors will have to rely on each other.

Even when I was car free, I socialized with people all over the place, not just with my next door neighbors.

I had a friend in the apartment building I lived in, but the rest were scattered all over Winnipeg, and one lived about 50 kms away from me, outside of Winnipeg.

We'd agree to meet somewhere, cycle to that point, and then cycle together for several hours, before cycling back home. Or we'd meet at cycling events which started in various locations around the outskirts of Winnipeg.

In addition to the Manitoba crowd, I had (have) family in Alberta and BC who I'd fly out to see (and then cycle in those areas), and I flew to cycling events in various other places around the world. I met many people at those events, who I'm still friends with ... and of course, I, a Canadian, met my Australian husband Rowan, through Bikeforums here, at one of those events in France. :) :)

That is an interesting thought. I particularly picked up on your comment about "you should perform little courtesies for people you don't know...". I was commenting to a friend of mine the other day how it seems people are less and less friendly. When I walk down the side walk and pass someone, I usually say, "hi" or acknowledge them in some way. It's amazing how few people respond.

In church circles, we talk about the difference between a 'parish' and a 'congregation.' In traditions that have 'parishes', everyone in a particular geographic area is expected to attend the church nearest to his/her home; thus, all sorts of people are gathered together for worship and service. In traditions that have 'congregations', one seeks out a church whose members are most agreeable to one; hence, the church is a club or society of like minded people. Of course, in practice, the line between the two often gets blurred, but the principle is still there.

I recall a post in a discussion about using public transit where the person complained that he didn't want to "ride with a bunch of strangers". This is so shortsighted. If you are regularly going to use transit instead of a long commute isolated in a car, then the you'll likely see those "strangers" every day. After a few rides watching all the other poor suckers stuck in traffic in their cars, you will likely have a great topic of conversation to share. Then.... what do you know, you made a friend!

Interesting post. I know none of my close neighbors. I've lived in my apartment for over 6 months but with heading to work before dawn and getting back from school after dark, I rarely see them outside to strike up a conversation. It's the custom here to sit out on your porch to chat with neighbors who walk by but I don't have a porch and it seems a strange custom to a northener like me. "But what will we have in common to talk about?" Most of my socializing happens at "activities" and "events" with like minded people as qwd mentioned.

I sometimes regret this and hope my upcoming bike tour will help me.

I recall a post in a discussion about using public transit where the person complained that he didn't want to "ride with a bunch of strangers". This is so shortsighted. If you are regularly going to use transit instead of a long commute isolated in a car, then the you'll likely see those "strangers" every day. After a few rides watching all the other poor suckers stuck in traffic in their cars, you will likely have a great topic of conversation to share. Then.... what do you know, you made a friend!

If you are very regular with your public transportation you'll probably be more likely to find familiar faces on your commute.

I recall a post in a discussion about using public transit where the person complained that he didn't want to "ride with a bunch of strangers". This is so shortsighted. If you are regularly going to use transit instead of a long commute isolated in a car, then the you'll likely see those "strangers" every day. After a few rides watching all the other poor suckers stuck in traffic in their cars, you will likely have a great topic of conversation to share. Then.... what do you know, you made a friend!


One thing I like about the bus is the friendly atmosphere. A lot of our bus drivers are also on friendly terms with their passengers.

I think the way your community is built influences how you view the world. If you live in an isolated suburb or exurb, you are not forced to deal with different people on a daily basis and don't see the needy around you. I've always thought this contributed to the conservative, anti-social services and xenophobic tendencies of suburbanites. This could simply be self-selection, but I think if you have to deal face to face with people different from you in ideas, income, ethnicity, etc it changes your outlook and the way you treat others.

I don't have enough like-minded people in my life right now at all, even though I still drive. I have driven 50 miles one way to meet with a group from meetup dot com, but that's about it. Only a couple of my friends are somewhat like-minded. To be honest, I do feel alone and isolated even though I still own an automobile.

I would like to live car-free, and I'm seeking the right location to live in. I'm single, and "location" is even more important to me for that reason.

To be honest, I do feel alone and isolated even though I still own an automobile.


It seems that you are close to realizing that replacing "even though" with "because" in this sentence will make it a more accurate description of your situation.

Bus rides show you a unique side of your city. I was on the bus the other day and had one woman screaming at another passenger to hang up his phone unless he wanted to speak English.

Talked football with another passenger that sat next to me. And as I was getting off the bus and unloading the bike, I had some random person talk to me about the bike and how they used to use the bike for just about everything.

I've recently moved back to the beautiful little City of Portland, Maine, and I'm working my way towards carfreeness. I am also studying architecture and doing my thesis on designing a multi-modal transport station in the middle of a giant scar of an arterial that cuts our peninsula in two. But that's another story.

So as part of my research, and as part of my plan for carfreeing, I rode the bus into and around town just to observe the experience and the people and the spaces involved. While waiting for the bus I started a sketch of a nearby house. When I got on the bus with my sketchbook, I continued sketching for a bit. Then realized I was sketching, and getting somewhere at the same time. I had intended to be all observant and such, but ended up enjoying my time and being creative.

Related anecdote: Our bus system provides front-of-the-bus bike racks. To celebrate my return to town and gear up for carriddance, I bought a great commuter bike. And my 10 ride bus pass. I was across town riding my brand new bike along the waterfront when I discovered that some people like to hit golfballs into the bay. I discovered it because I reamed a big hole in one of my brand new tires with a golf tee. So I got on my cell phone and left messages for some friends to affect a rescue. Then, duh, I realized I could just hop the bus. Problem solved the right way. Irony of it was that the hardest part of the trip was crossing the 5-way intersection on foot after I got off the bus two blocks from my apartment.

...I'm working my way towards carfreeness. I am also studying architecture...
Yay! We need a whole new concept of how to live and work in the future. It will all start with a few young architects scratching their heads and putting pencils to sketchpads. Great oaks from little acorns and all that. Good luck!

I am also studying architecture and doing my thesis on designing a multi-modal transport station in the middle of a giant scar of an arterial that cuts our peninsula in two. But that's another story.


It's a story I'd be interested in hearing more about. I hope you'll consider starting a new thread to tell us more about it.
:)

A way to quantify the effect is to look at the geographic distance between you and the nearest person you socialize with. For me and my urban friends it is measured in feet, we visit and hang out with neighbors. For my suburban friends it is more like miles, some have never set foot in their neighbor's homes, not even within the neighborhood. Some who are auto aware will recognize a neighbor's car but not the person in the flesh.
I'm in a town of around 12,000 people. Most of my friends and close acquaintances are somewhere within the same town. I've worked to keep a wide variety of people around me with different temperaments and different interests. It would be possible to associate almost exclusively with people who share my religious faith or personal interests, but I don't think it's healthy to have a completely homogenous network of friends.

Gwd's premise -- that the source of isolation is that the car keeps you from your "near" neighbours -- is only part of the picture. Other forces tend to keep you from your neighbours:

* the lawn-mower is too loud to disturb a mowing session with chit-chat
* neighbours are rushing off to appointments, classes, dinner, movies, etc and don;thave time to stop and shoot the breeze
* no one sits out on the front stoop; mostly such behaviour seems "nosy" or "familiar".
* no one appears to have nothing to do; everyone is heading somewhere, doing something
* often the only contact with the neighbourhood is that brief moment when the garage door opens and the car shoots out.

Having moved to the US from eastern Canada, I am amazed that people don't seem to be all that friendly... it's like they are just too busy or something.

Gwd's premise -- that the source of isolation is that the car keeps you from your "near" neighbours -- is only part of the picture. Other forces tend to keep you from your neighbours:

* the lawn-mower is too loud to disturb a mowing session with chit-chat
* neighbours are rushing off to appointments, classes, dinner, movies, etc and don;thave time to stop and shoot the breeze
* no one sits out on the front stoop; mostly such behaviour seems "nosy" or "familiar".
* no one appears to have nothing to do; everyone is heading somewhere, doing something
* often the only contact with the neighbourhood is that brief moment when the garage door opens and the car shoots out.

Having moved to the US from eastern Canada, I am amazed that people don't seem to be all that friendly... it's like they are just too busy or something.

I think another factor is air conditioning. People are "comfortable" indoors rather than trying to catch a breeze (and a conversation) outdoors.

Having moved to the US from eastern Canada, I am amazed that people don't seem to be all that friendly... it's like they are just too busy or something.

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/tag/total-us-television-viewers/

And yet we as a society have tons of time to devote to our televisions, our internet forums, and so on.

Compared to sitting in front of the tube, it's not very "safe" and "comfortable" to be out on the front stoop ready to make friends with the neighbors. "What if they don't like me? What if they think I'm weird?"

To some degree, people try to keep themselves busy to avoid the challenging situation of unplanned, un-programmed human interaction.

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/tag/total-us-television-viewers/

And yet we as a society have tons of time to devote to our televisions, our internet forums, and so on.

Compared to sitting in front of the tube, it's not very "safe" and "comfortable" to be out on the front stoop ready to make friends with the neighbors. "What if they don't like me? What if they think I'm weird?"

To some degree, people try to keep themselves busy to avoid the challenging situation of unplanned, un-programmed human interaction.

There have been recent news reports of bad health outcomes related to internet and TV exposure:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Parenting/12038

But, maybe it isn't the TV but lack of un-programmed human interaction that causes the bad outcome? Living car free seems to give me more spontaneous human interaction- even with car drivers. In DC they seem very willing to ask bikers directions, we're more accessible.

Living car free seems to give me more spontaneous human interaction- even with car drivers.

+1 I really dig the random interactions being on a bike brings. I'm now a "regular" at stores that I've shopped at for years. They recognize me when I come in and ask me how I'm doing. Shoot... one of the cute ladies at Trader Joes gave me a hug the other day when I hadn't stopped by in a few weeks. Guess where I'm shopping this weekend. :)

I've recently moved back to the beautiful little City of Portland, Maine, and I'm working my way towards carfreeness. I am also studying architecture and doing my thesis on designing a multi-modal transport station in the middle of a giant scar of an arterial that cuts our peninsula in two. But that's another story.

Sounds like you could already have a specialty laid down for you. Car-free architecture.