rlodewell
10-13-08, 12:10 PM
I guess Kohl can go back to being a chimney sweep.
Professional Cycling - Bernhard Kohl tests non-negative
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USAZorro
10-13-08, 01:35 PM
Another one that doesn't surprise.
JoelS
10-13-08, 04:57 PM
Who's next?
USAZorro
10-13-08, 05:03 PM
I think they popped all the guys who I thought were obviously riding beyond their ability. I think the jury is out on the Schleck brothers. I'm hoping that Christian was riding clean. That would be a real heartbreaker.
127.0.0.1
10-13-08, 05:11 PM
ha ha doping is on it's way out
someday....only the local rich boy townie TT clowns will dope because there is
no testing and pretend racing is all they have
someday....only the local rich boy townie TT clowns will dope because there is
no testing and pretend racing is all they have
MadeInItaly
10-13-08, 05:16 PM
I said it before , I'll say it again. Let em all dope and have at it. Racing was a whole lot better when they were doped to the gills.
PS: Doping is bad..
PS: Doping is bad..
Edgecrusher
10-13-08, 06:31 PM
ha ha doping is on it's way out
Uh, no it is not. Nor will it ever cease. Too much money and prestige
on the line. Yes the consequences of getting caught are extreme,
but as long as PED's exist - there will will always be riders who will
give a shot.
I said it before , I'll say it again. Let em all dope and have at it. Racing was a whole lot better when they were doped to the gills.
Absolutely! Racing over the past 50 maybe or more years has been exciting
and kept getting better and better - due in part to doping. In won't matter
in the future anyway...once bio-tech can execute genetic engineering on a low cost
basis for potential parents, the ability to have a super-human cycling athlete will be
as easy as a few choices and clicks. I'll take a power sprinter...and a climber as well doc.
Thank you. This goes for football, baseball, track, etc.
As science progresses at such a rapid pace, no organization or dumb-***
board of anti-this or world "dopes"will be able to stand in the way.
It's inevitable. Life will be prolonged, as humans will become designer machines
with exacting specifications, and sports - all sports will be amazing.
I hope I am around to witness the evolution of science and nature.:thumb:
Uh, no it is not. Nor will it ever cease. Too much money and prestige
on the line. Yes the consequences of getting caught are extreme,
but as long as PED's exist - there will will always be riders who will
give a shot.
I said it before , I'll say it again. Let em all dope and have at it. Racing was a whole lot better when they were doped to the gills.
Absolutely! Racing over the past 50 maybe or more years has been exciting
and kept getting better and better - due in part to doping. In won't matter
in the future anyway...once bio-tech can execute genetic engineering on a low cost
basis for potential parents, the ability to have a super-human cycling athlete will be
as easy as a few choices and clicks. I'll take a power sprinter...and a climber as well doc.
Thank you. This goes for football, baseball, track, etc.
As science progresses at such a rapid pace, no organization or dumb-***
board of anti-this or world "dopes"will be able to stand in the way.
It's inevitable. Life will be prolonged, as humans will become designer machines
with exacting specifications, and sports - all sports will be amazing.
I hope I am around to witness the evolution of science and nature.:thumb:
jaxgtr
10-13-08, 07:45 PM
Didn't Kohl just make a statement about how his whole team was upset with Schumacher???? What a piece of crap.
SamDaBikinMan
10-13-08, 07:54 PM
And this is a surprise to who exactly? I feel no shock or surprise anymore with dope positives.
I actually expect it to be honest.
I actually expect it to be honest.
Suzie Green
10-13-08, 08:07 PM
It's amazing that we still follow this sport after all this insanity. What does that say about us, that we're willing to go down with the proverbial ship?
MadeInItaly
10-13-08, 08:16 PM
I can care less if NFL players dope and even less if cyclist do. It's entertainment to me . Nothing else..
erader
10-13-08, 10:26 PM
It's amazing that we still follow this sport after all this insanity. What does that say about us, that we're willing to go down with the proverbial ship?
there's cheating in all sports. yep even nascar :eek:!
the mistake cycling made is they let the genie out of the bottle with the thought that they could clean up the sport .... ain't gonna happen. after CERA they'll find another drug that will avoid detection for awhile and so on................
ed rader
there's cheating in all sports. yep even nascar :eek:!
the mistake cycling made is they let the genie out of the bottle with the thought that they could clean up the sport .... ain't gonna happen. after CERA they'll find another drug that will avoid detection for awhile and so on................
ed rader
127.0.0.1
10-14-08, 06:50 AM
there's cheating in all sports. yep even nascar :eek:!
the mistake cycling made is they let the genie out of the bottle with the thought that they could clean up the sport .... ain't gonna happen. after CERA they'll find another drung that will avoid detection for awhile and so on................
ed rader
The gov'ments of EU countries will regulate all hormones and treatments and place markers in them
so they are easy to test for. they do it now with some EPO.
but...yeah...some third world chemist will still be paid huge bucks to make private batches.
I guess ya'll are right. it will never go away. it'll just become a bigger game of cat and mouse.
millions are at stake in the sponsorships.....people have been whacked for less
the mistake cycling made is they let the genie out of the bottle with the thought that they could clean up the sport .... ain't gonna happen. after CERA they'll find another drung that will avoid detection for awhile and so on................
ed rader
The gov'ments of EU countries will regulate all hormones and treatments and place markers in them
so they are easy to test for. they do it now with some EPO.
but...yeah...some third world chemist will still be paid huge bucks to make private batches.
I guess ya'll are right. it will never go away. it'll just become a bigger game of cat and mouse.
millions are at stake in the sponsorships.....people have been whacked for less
CheatorBeat
10-14-08, 10:10 AM
More details on the Kohl, with a bit of commentary :
http://www.cheatorbeat.com/bernhard-kohl-cera-doping/cycling/1378
http://www.cheatorbeat.com/bernhard-kohl-cera-doping/cycling/1378
USAZorro
10-14-08, 01:52 PM
Didn't Kohl just make a statement about how his whole team was upset with Schumacher???? What a piece of crap.
No. That was Lang. That made me remember how suspicious I was about Kohl's appearance out of nowhere.
No. That was Lang. That made me remember how suspicious I was about Kohl's appearance out of nowhere.
xfimpg
10-14-08, 04:47 PM
And people are worried that Armstrong is bringing back the older generation of dopers.
More like the old generation that was doping on EPO, cause now it's CERA.
And I agree, let them dope, makes it more entertaining.
More like the old generation that was doping on EPO, cause now it's CERA.
And I agree, let them dope, makes it more entertaining.
tigershark
10-14-08, 08:38 PM
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27165070/
Sangetsu
10-21-08, 07:00 PM
The gov'ments of EU countries will regulate all hormones and treatments and place markers in them
so they are easy to test for. they do it now with some EPO.
but...yeah...some third world chemist will still be paid huge bucks to make private batches.
I guess ya'll are right. it will never go away. it'll just become a bigger game of cat and mouse.
millions are at stake in the sponsorships.....people have been whacked for less
It's funny that I was arguing such a point 4 years or so ago after Millar was banned. Someone mentioned that it would be impossible to test for drugs because so many new ones were coming out. I suggested that the drug manufacturers chemically or genetically "mark" their drugs, so that they could be readily detected and identified. I was surprised when I read the reports during last summer's tour that Cera included such a "marker".
Drug marking can be variable, so that different lots can be individually marked, and the drug company can tell by which marker turns up in testing which lot was used, who it was distributed to, and possibly, to which doctor it was shipped.
These chemical markers can be added to any drug, making it impossible to mask them. Legislation can be passed requiring all prescription drugs contain such markers, which, besides making cheating impossible, will go a long way to increasing safety, and allowing hospitals to quickly determine what medications a patient is taking if he/she arrives unconscious at an emergency room.
Apparently, the makers of Cera thought that their drug might one day be used by cheating athletes. I applaud their foresight and effort in making sure that only those who require the drug as legitimate treatment should receive it.
I'm often amazed at how little intelligence professional athletes possess, but using drugs made in "private" batches by crooked doctors is farfetched. These doctors would be prosecuted in the same manner as those who run meth labs, and would be liable for illegally trafficking in such drugs. Doctors make enough money without having to run the risk of losing their hard earned licenses or spending considerable amounts of time in prison.
Other countries (where regulations are not so strict) will likely make numbers of these drugs. But more often than not, the these drugs are made with poor manufacturing controls, and are either ineffective to the point that they don't work, or so overly effective that they can cause immediate death.
Cera is the first of the potentially "performance enhancing" drugs to be marked, hopefully others will follow.
so they are easy to test for. they do it now with some EPO.
but...yeah...some third world chemist will still be paid huge bucks to make private batches.
I guess ya'll are right. it will never go away. it'll just become a bigger game of cat and mouse.
millions are at stake in the sponsorships.....people have been whacked for less
It's funny that I was arguing such a point 4 years or so ago after Millar was banned. Someone mentioned that it would be impossible to test for drugs because so many new ones were coming out. I suggested that the drug manufacturers chemically or genetically "mark" their drugs, so that they could be readily detected and identified. I was surprised when I read the reports during last summer's tour that Cera included such a "marker".
Drug marking can be variable, so that different lots can be individually marked, and the drug company can tell by which marker turns up in testing which lot was used, who it was distributed to, and possibly, to which doctor it was shipped.
These chemical markers can be added to any drug, making it impossible to mask them. Legislation can be passed requiring all prescription drugs contain such markers, which, besides making cheating impossible, will go a long way to increasing safety, and allowing hospitals to quickly determine what medications a patient is taking if he/she arrives unconscious at an emergency room.
Apparently, the makers of Cera thought that their drug might one day be used by cheating athletes. I applaud their foresight and effort in making sure that only those who require the drug as legitimate treatment should receive it.
I'm often amazed at how little intelligence professional athletes possess, but using drugs made in "private" batches by crooked doctors is farfetched. These doctors would be prosecuted in the same manner as those who run meth labs, and would be liable for illegally trafficking in such drugs. Doctors make enough money without having to run the risk of losing their hard earned licenses or spending considerable amounts of time in prison.
Other countries (where regulations are not so strict) will likely make numbers of these drugs. But more often than not, the these drugs are made with poor manufacturing controls, and are either ineffective to the point that they don't work, or so overly effective that they can cause immediate death.
Cera is the first of the potentially "performance enhancing" drugs to be marked, hopefully others will follow.
urodacus
10-21-08, 10:01 PM
.... or so overly effective that they can cause immediate death.
???
???
PhilaRider
11-15-08, 07:09 PM
but using drugs made in "private" batches by crooked doctors is farfetched. These doctors would be prosecuted in the same manner as those who run meth labs, and would be liable for illegally trafficking in such drugs. .
What makes you think a DOCTOR is needed to make these "private" batches?
Any chemist would have the wherewithal. I know pharmacy reps who know the process/recipe to making their drugs.
There will be cheating, but I do think the testing will get better and hopefully more accurate. (lots of sloppiness in the testing regimens)
What makes you think a DOCTOR is needed to make these "private" batches?
Any chemist would have the wherewithal. I know pharmacy reps who know the process/recipe to making their drugs.
There will be cheating, but I do think the testing will get better and hopefully more accurate. (lots of sloppiness in the testing regimens)
vik
11-16-08, 02:46 PM
I was surprised when I read the reports during last summer's tour that Cera included such a "marker".
The manufacturer categorically stated Cera has no marker (http://www.velonews.com/article/80701) and was not in any way modified with anti-doping tests in mind. They did point out that no special marker was necessary for detecting Cera.
"The company, however, said that while it had cooperated with WADA researchers, it had not altered CERA in order to make its detection easier. Indeed, the company said such a marker would not even be necessary."
“The fact is that Mircera is an innovative molecule that is both functionally and structurally different and it can be differentiated in samples from both naturally occurring erythropoietin and from all other traditional ESA products,” the company noted in its statement. “Roche has provided samples of Mircera and assay reagents to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) to help ensure that WADA laboratories will be able to carry out reliable anti-doping testing.”
The manufacturer categorically stated Cera has no marker (http://www.velonews.com/article/80701) and was not in any way modified with anti-doping tests in mind. They did point out that no special marker was necessary for detecting Cera.
"The company, however, said that while it had cooperated with WADA researchers, it had not altered CERA in order to make its detection easier. Indeed, the company said such a marker would not even be necessary."
“The fact is that Mircera is an innovative molecule that is both functionally and structurally different and it can be differentiated in samples from both naturally occurring erythropoietin and from all other traditional ESA products,” the company noted in its statement. “Roche has provided samples of Mircera and assay reagents to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) to help ensure that WADA laboratories will be able to carry out reliable anti-doping testing.”
Bontrager
11-27-08, 08:42 PM
It's amazing that we still follow this sport after all this insanity. What does that say about us, that we're willing to go down with the proverbial ship?
We are fans of the sport, not the riders.
We are fans of the sport, not the riders.
Reid Rothchild
05-26-09, 10:30 AM
Kohl rules out return to cycling
Bernhard Kohl will not return to cycling after his doping-related suspension ends. "I don't want to continue leading a double life which is based on lies," he said at a press conference Monday morning in Vienna.
The 27-year-old tested positive for the EPO derivative CERA during the Tour de France and later confessed to having used illegal doping products and methods for most of his career. He was given a two-year suspension.
"Without doping there is no equal opportunity in the top international field," Kohl said, according to nachrichten.at. "This is absolutely the end."
The former Gerolsteiner rider acknowledged, "I have voluntarily doped – in a system in which you can't win without doping. Talent, training and iron discipline just aren't enough at some point. Doping becomes the rule. A clean sport is unfortunately an exception."
Kohl said that he would now dedicate himself to doping prevention, by speaking on the subject and organising cycling camps. He is currently still under investigation for his part in purchasing a blood centrifuge.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=new...ay09/may25news2
Is the Giro a top international field?
I wonder how the Lance fan's think he's going to win the TdF?
Many here seem to be impressed with his increasing strength as the Giro goes on.
Bernhard Kohl will not return to cycling after his doping-related suspension ends. "I don't want to continue leading a double life which is based on lies," he said at a press conference Monday morning in Vienna.
The 27-year-old tested positive for the EPO derivative CERA during the Tour de France and later confessed to having used illegal doping products and methods for most of his career. He was given a two-year suspension.
"Without doping there is no equal opportunity in the top international field," Kohl said, according to nachrichten.at. "This is absolutely the end."
The former Gerolsteiner rider acknowledged, "I have voluntarily doped – in a system in which you can't win without doping. Talent, training and iron discipline just aren't enough at some point. Doping becomes the rule. A clean sport is unfortunately an exception."
Kohl said that he would now dedicate himself to doping prevention, by speaking on the subject and organising cycling camps. He is currently still under investigation for his part in purchasing a blood centrifuge.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=new...ay09/may25news2
Is the Giro a top international field?
I wonder how the Lance fan's think he's going to win the TdF?
Many here seem to be impressed with his increasing strength as the Giro goes on.
hocker
05-26-09, 11:21 AM
I guess I am in the minority that I like the sport as it stands. I want them to test as extensively as possible, kick out the guys that are caught, and celebrate the guys that are not. Same thing with baseball...test, test, test and kick out the bad apples.
I just don't think about it until someone is caught. And when they are, the first thing I think is, 'what an idiot' because I believe that if you're cheating it is just a matter of time before you are caught given drug test technology advances. I will follow my favorite riders and assume innocence (I.e. CVdV, Levi, Nibali, Phinney, etc.) until busted.
I just don't think about it until someone is caught. And when they are, the first thing I think is, 'what an idiot' because I believe that if you're cheating it is just a matter of time before you are caught given drug test technology advances. I will follow my favorite riders and assume innocence (I.e. CVdV, Levi, Nibali, Phinney, etc.) until busted.
JoelS
05-26-09, 11:39 AM
I guess I am in the minority that I like the sport as it stands. I want them to test as extensively as possible, kick out the guys that are caught, and celebrate the guys that are not. Same thing with baseball...test, test, test and kick out the bad apples.
I just don't think about it until someone is caught. And when they are, the first thing I think is, 'what an idiot' because I believe that if your cheating it is just a matter of time before you are caught given drug test technology advances. I will follow my favorite riders and assume innocence (I.e. CVdV, Levi, Nibali, Phinney, etc.) until busted.
I'm with you on this.
I just don't think about it until someone is caught. And when they are, the first thing I think is, 'what an idiot' because I believe that if your cheating it is just a matter of time before you are caught given drug test technology advances. I will follow my favorite riders and assume innocence (I.e. CVdV, Levi, Nibali, Phinney, etc.) until busted.
I'm with you on this.
jjpat
05-26-09, 03:49 PM
I want to see random start line testing.
Any ideas why the UCI won't do it?
Any ideas why the UCI won't do it?
gear
05-28-09, 07:34 AM
I'd like to see blood tested not urine. I'd like to see standardized testing by one test outfit. I'd like to see lifetime bans for first offense.
People will still try to cheat but the risk would be greater so less would be tempted.
People will still try to cheat but the risk would be greater so less would be tempted.
USAZorro
05-28-09, 08:29 AM
I'd like to see blood tested not urine. I'd like to see standardized testing by one test outfit. I'd like to see lifetime bans for first offense.
People will still try to cheat but the risk would be greater so less would be tempted.
They need to change the ADA hearing rules for evidence if the consequences will be that harsh. I have no problem with the concept, but if you're going to ban someone for life, you'd better be 100% certain.
People will still try to cheat but the risk would be greater so less would be tempted.
They need to change the ADA hearing rules for evidence if the consequences will be that harsh. I have no problem with the concept, but if you're going to ban someone for life, you'd better be 100% certain.
gear
05-29-09, 04:32 AM
They need to change the ADA hearing rules for evidence if the consequences will be that harsh. I have no problem with the concept, but if you're going to ban someone for life, you'd better be 100% certain.
Absolutely, there needs to be a system to appeal. In order to have a persons privilege (not calling it a right) of being able to compete in professional cycling revoked for life, the testing needs to be 100% accurate. I think tests based upon genetic markers from blood, would be more accurate than testing based upon urine.
Absolutely, there needs to be a system to appeal. In order to have a persons privilege (not calling it a right) of being able to compete in professional cycling revoked for life, the testing needs to be 100% accurate. I think tests based upon genetic markers from blood, would be more accurate than testing based upon urine.
Reid Rothchild
05-29-09, 10:10 PM
They need to change the ADA hearing rules for evidence if the consequences will be that harsh. I have no problem with the concept, but if you're going to ban someone for life, you'd better be 100% certain.
Any evidence of false positives. We know there are hundreds of false negatives. Kohl said he had 198 of them. If someone's turning up positive, THEY'RE POSITIVE.:roflmao::wtf:
Any evidence of false positives. We know there are hundreds of false negatives. Kohl said he had 198 of them. If someone's turning up positive, THEY'RE POSITIVE.:roflmao::wtf: