Advocacy & Safety - I initiated a car accident on the MUP

MUP

Somerville to Bedford, on my SS road bike in the dark.

At the last road crossing before I95 headed to Bedford, is a crossing over rt4.

The MUP has a crosswalk, and a walk button that work instantly if it hasn't
been used in 5 minutes. So I roll up real slow to the sidewalk and lean against
the pole, getting ready to smack the button and get an immediate yellow
for cross traffic.

I am stationary and chilling.

So some cars are coming but it doesn't matter, I smack the button. Instant yellow. NOW... most
folks would expect if there is a car within 30 feet it will just continue past the yellow, and
even another car may cruise by. I always wait and let cars buffer out.

Anyhow, yellow comes on :innocent: and a car 30 feet away going west about 30 mph LOCKS the brakes and
skids into the crosswalk and ends halfway onto the paint. :lol: And the car behind him smashes his bumper. :eek:

So...driver #1 is a tool for jamming the breaks instantly...he should have rolled through the yellow
like a normal person. Yellow means it is about to change red, but go through for cripes sake if you
are right there

and driver #2 is a tool for following too closely.

I wait for my green/white crossing, and roll through at 3 mph just shaking my head and
looking dumbfounded...'cuz I was.

i dunno if my post has a point but it was really funny that a driver wanted to stop so damn bad
for me that they broke normal driving rules and locked them up. I'd much rather have them blast
by like any normal driver. a yellow does not mean stop. it certainly doesn't mean lock them up
and skid into the sidewalk.

D'oh!

I can't say much about this in particular, but I think there has been an increase rear end collisions at lights in places where there are camera's. If there person thought there was a camera or something, they may have over reacted.

Maybe the driver was from another area of the country. I've met people from some cities that told me the police still ticket people for going through a yellow light.

Stinks to be them. I am shocked to hear that there are actually MUP crossings with traffic lights.

:roflmao2: Dang. That is pretty funny. Thanks for sharing. lol1

As a witness to an accident why didn't you leave any info?

Maybe the driver was from another area of the country. I've met people from some cities that told me the police still ticket people for going through a yellow light.

Yellow means stop if it is safe to do so. Clearly it was not.

From what I recall the officer telling me was, yellow is for clearing the intersection. If your front wheels are over the stop line and the lights turn yellow, you may proceed through the intersection. If your front wheels have not crossed the stop line before the the light turns yellow then you may not proceed through the intersection and that was why he had to fill out the citation.

From what I recall the officer telling me was, yellow is for clearing the intersection. If your front wheels are over the stop line and the lights turn yellow, you may proceed through the intersection. If your front wheels have not crossed the stop line before the the light turns yellow then you may not proceed through the intersection and that was why he had to fill out the citation.

That seems pretty extreme to me. Depending on your speed and where the stop line is, it may be pretty hazardous to stop for every yellow. But a lot depends on placement of the stop line which I'm sure varies greatly from place to place.

As a witness to an accident why didn't you leave any info?

I am a bike rider, def. not interested in sparing time to witness for some crumpled bumper

I have better stuff to do, like finish riding

no one was laying in agony bleeding




if it was a more messed up accident, loose dog, some other anomaly i'd stick
around. but it was just a 'tool driver', and just some crinkled bumper, which nowadays
is 1000 or more to repair. clearly, for whatever reason, the driver in back who
did the hitting is guilty.

it is clear cut and inescapable. no witness needed.
no matter the circumstances, no matter what, if you rear
end someone, you are guilty of following too close for conditions or not paying attention

I am a bike rider, def. not interested in sparing time to witness for some crumpled bumper

I have better stuff to do, like finish riding

no one was laying in agony bleeding




if it was a more messed up accident, loose dog, some other anomaly i'd stick
around. but it was just a 'tool driver', and just some crinkled bumper, which nowadays
is 1000 or more to repair. clearly, for whatever reason, the driver in back who
did the hitting is guily.

it is clear cut and inescapable. no witness needed.
no matter the circumstances, no matter what, if you rear
end someone, you are guilty of following too close for conditions or not paying attention

Nice justification of your inaction. Let's hope you don't need a witness someday.

:roflmao2: Dang. That is pretty funny. Thanks for sharing. lol1

Wish I lived there. I would do that every day for laughs.

Nice justification of your inaction. Let's hope you don't need a witness someday.

Jeez Louise, he didn't witness a murder or anything. Not a big deal.

Almost all drivers routinely follow the vehicle in front of them way too closely. It is virtually impossible to rear end someone no matter what they do if you maintain a generous buffer. No one is ever going to get me to rear end them. It doesn't sound like you needed to stick around for this either.

silly cagers.

Nice justification of your inaction. Let's hope you don't need a witness someday.

inaction ? I pressed the damn button.

Wish I lived there. I would do that every day for laughs.

about 2 miles down the path is a second light I get to trigger, the road to the Air Force Base. people
on that strip usually drive a lot better though.

Nice justification of your inaction. Let's hope you don't need a witness someday.

Hey get with the program.
Nowadays people Do Not interact with other people; those driver's may be crazed or dangerous psychos!
Or the cop might flip out and pull crazy **** when he sticks around to talk!

When you see something happen, it's best to get out of there fast and stay uninvolved. :thumb:

From what I recall the officer telling me was, yellow is for clearing the intersection. If your front wheels are over the stop line and the lights turn yellow, you may proceed through the intersection. If your front wheels have not crossed the stop line before the the light turns yellow then you may not proceed through the intersection and that was why he had to fill out the citation.

That doesn't make sense. If the light turns yellow and you're five feet before the intersection then there's no way you'll be able to stop before entering the intersection (assuming 25 mph in a normal car). As long as the car clears the intersection before the light turns red then there's no problem. That's why yellow lights are on longer for intersections with faster traffic.

Hey get with the program.
Nowadays people Do Not interact with other people; those driver's may be crazed or dangerous psychos!
Or the cop might flip out and pull crazy **** when he sticks around to talk!

When you see something happen, it's best to get out of there fast and stay uninvolved. :thumb:

Lexington Bike Cops would:

1) laugh in my face about waiting around as a witness for a rear-end collision fender bender

2) high five me for triggering this because jerk drivers are always going fast here anyway

in Mass. the only ones who care are the insurance companies. it's a crinkled fender. who the
hell is going to stick around for that except an attention wh*re ????? I quit staring at fires and
listening to fire and police sirens back when I was 12. I just move aside.

MUP

Somerville to Bedford, on my SS road bike in the dark.

At the last road crossing before I95 headed to Bedford, is a crossing over rt4.

The MUP has a crosswalk, and a walk button that work instantly if it hasn't
been used in 5 minutes. So I roll up real slow to the sidewalk and lean against
the pole, getting ready to smack the button and get an immediate yellow
for cross traffic.

I am stationary and chilling.

So some cars are coming but it doesn't matter, I smack the button. Instant yellow. NOW... most
folks would expect if there is a car within 30 feet it will just continue past the yellow, and
even another car may cruise by. I always wait and let cars buffer out.

Anyhow, yellow comes on :innocent: and a car 30 feet away going west about 30 mph LOCKS the brakes and
skids into the crosswalk and ends halfway onto the paint. :lol: And the car behind him smashes his bumper. :eek:

So...driver #1 is a tool for jamming the breaks instantly...he should have rolled through the yellow
like a normal person. Yellow means it is about to change red, but go through for cripes sake if you
are right there

and driver #2 is a tool for following too closely.

I wait for my green/white crossing, and roll through at 3 mph just shaking my head and
looking dumbfounded...'cuz I was.

i dunno if my post has a point but it was really funny that a driver wanted to stop so damn bad
for me that they broke normal driving rules and locked them up. I'd much rather have them blast
by like any normal driver. a yellow does not mean stop. it certainly doesn't mean lock them up
and skid into the sidewalk.


Despite the both drivers stupidity why didn't you call 911 and check to see if anyone needed help? Someone could have been injured. Also I thought if you witness an accident you are supposed to stick around to help with the police report. Most people would also render aid to anyone injured. Someone could have had an injury that was not bleeding. Also can't witnesses who do not stick around be cited for leaving the scene, regardless of how major or minor it is? What if the guilty party challenges the citation, if there was one given, and it goes to court. They will need all witnesses for this purpose. You were a witness who left the scene. Again this is regardless of how severe the accident is.

I hate to say it but some may think if you are ever in an accident and injured and require medical aid and there is a witness to it who left the scene when he or she could have and should stayed around to help you, but did not would be sort of a return or pay back for what you did. Put yourself in that situation.

The fact is you did not know how bad if anyone was hurt or if anyone was even hurt at all. Sure it looked like a fender bender and only minor damage to the cars. But that' doesn't mean no one was hurt.

Also you admitting that you caused an accident and then took off after on an internet forum is probably not to smart of a move on your part. You basically admitted to a crime. You may as well just wait for the police to come knocking on your door at this point.

You need to get a helmet camera for next time ! :D

Despite the both drivers stupidity why didn't you call 911 and check to see if anyone needed help? Someone could have been injured. Also I thought if you witness an accident you are supposed to stick around to help with the police report. Most people would also render aid to anyone injured.

Yes, he should have called 911 so they could sort out all the dead bodies, and who knows, maybe coax some of the critically injured back to life.

I got the impression from this thread that this was a minor fender bender.

A&S clairvoyants come out to correct the evaluation of the situation by the OP, who was actually there when it happened.

Also you admitting that you caused an accident and then took off after on an internet forum is probably not to smart of a move on your part. You basically admitted to a crime. You may as well just wait for the police to come knocking on your door at this point.

The OP hit the traffic signal button. The light changed from green to yellow, then to red. The OP then moved across the street. In what sense did he cause an accident?

A&S clairvoyants come out to correct the evaluation of the situation by the OP, who was actually there when it happened.



The OP hit the traffic signal button. The light changed from green to yellow, then to red. The OP then moved across the street. In what sense did he cause an accident?

In the sense that the A&S clairvoyant in question is also a Drama Queen. Call 911 for an obviously minor fender bender? Good Grief!

apparently we always blame the cyclist for something, it must be a rule

Despite the both drivers stupidity why didn't you call 911 and check to see if anyone needed help? Someone could have been injured. Also I thought if you witness an accident you are supposed to stick around to help with the police report. Most people would also render aid to anyone injured. Someone could have had an injury that was not bleeding. Also can't witnesses who do not stick around be cited for leaving the scene, regardless of how major or minor it is? What if the guilty party challenges the citation, if there was one given, and it goes to court. They will need all witnesses for this purpose. You were a witness who left the scene. Again this is regardless of how severe the accident is.

I hate to say it but some may think if you are ever in an accident and injured and require medical aid and there is a witness to it who left the scene when he or she could have and should stayed around to help you, but did not would be sort of a return or pay back for what you did. Put yourself in that situation.

The fact is you did not know how bad if anyone was hurt or if anyone was even hurt at all. Sure it looked like a fender bender and only minor damage to the cars. But that' doesn't mean no one was hurt.

Also you admitting that you caused an accident and then took off after on an internet forum is probably not to smart of a move on your part. You basically admitted to a crime. You may as well just wait for the police to come knocking on your door at this point.


I did not cause an accident. what do you do, work for FOX news ? How can I cause an accident ? I trigger a yellow light , and that action seemed to induce a car driver to slam on the brakes. That was the problem, not me. when both drivers got out and started walking around i figured well gee no one died.


I initiated a series of events which a driver then took as an excuse to act stupid
and jam the brakes. the actual and definitive criminal is the following driver who was following
too close. throw that person in jail.

using your logic, the town is also at fault for having a big yellow post with a button
on it that screams PRESS ME if you want a crossing signal. and while we are at it, all
people on earth are at fault for wanting to cross any street in the first place. How dare we ???
and the town maint crew for painting the crosswalk. and people who build yellow streetlights.

gawd are you taking crazy pills ??? holy crap how do you even get out of the house each day ?
you must sign a foot thick stack of releases and legal contracts each day...just to fart


get a grip. I do not like being told what to do or how to act.
YOU weren't there. I was. nothing happened. sheesh. no air bags. it was funny.

Most people would also render aid to anyone injured. Someone could have had an injury that was not bleeding. Also can't witnesses who do not stick around be cited for leaving the scene, regardless of how major or minor it is? What if the guilty party challenges the citation, if there was one given, and it goes to court. They will need all witnesses for this purpose. You were a witness who left the scene. Again this is regardless of how severe the accident is.


Actually its best not to help at all, because you might be sued by the injured person you're trying to help. They might claim that your medically-untrained attempts to help aggravate an injury or whatever, etc later on.

And he's not a 'witness' (with the associated obligations) unless he gets subpoena-ed as one, right now he's just an anonymous bystander.



Also, Yes it sounds funny to me.
And wtf? who drives without anti-lock breaks nowadays? Silly.

Actually its best not to help at all, because you might be sued by the injured person you're trying to help. They might claim that your medically-untrained attempts to help aggravate an injury or whatever, etc later on.

And he's not a 'witness' (with the associated obligations) unless he gets subpoena-ed as one, right now he's just an anonymous bystander.
.

He was A witnesss...
Good Samaritan Laws prevent being sued.

Actually its best not to help at all, because you might be sued by the injured person you're trying to help. They might claim that your medically-untrained attempts to help aggravate an injury or whatever, etc later on.

Actually most (if not all) states have good samaritan laws to protect you from this sort of situation.

you must sign a foot thick stack of releases and legal contracts each day...just to fart


:lol: :lol: :lol:

The one thing that the law does not protect against is getting a subpoena and having to appear in court with no reimbursement for lost wages and travel expenses. I witnessed an accident a year and a half ago and was called in as a witness. It only cost me $75.00 in wages and travel expenses.

If I witness another accident, which is bound to happen some day, I will stop again, check on the occupants, and give my name to the police. It is what I would want someone to do for me if I were in that situation.


it was funny.
I may be old fashioned and it is only my opinion, but to view anyone's misfortune, regardless of how well deserved it might be, as funny shows questionable character.

I may be old fashioned and it is only my opinion, but to view anyone's misfortune, regardless of how well deserved it might be, as funny shows questionable character.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

From what I recall the officer telling me was, yellow is for clearing the intersection. If your front wheels are over the stop line and the lights turn yellow, you may proceed through the intersection. If your front wheels have not crossed the stop line before the the light turns yellow then you may not proceed through the intersection and that was why he had to fill out the citation.

Uh, no. In most jurisdictions, if your wheels are past the stop line and the light turns RED, then you HAVE NOT run a red kight. Its only if your wheels are behind the stop line when the lights turn red that you have run a red light.

I may be old fashioned and it is only my opinion, but to view anyone's misfortune, regardless of how well deserved it might be, as funny shows questionable character.

So does leaving the scene of an accident after witnessing it. As does posting about it on an internet forum.

Uh, no. In most jurisdictions, if your wheels are past the stop line and the light turns RED, then you HAVE NOT run a red kight. Its only if your wheels are behind the stop line when the lights turn red that you have run a red light.

In Arizona there is a red-light violation at an intersection if the intersection has been entered by vehicle after the light has turned red. Entering an intersection is defined as crossing the imaginary line drawn from nearside curb to curb. This line is always beyond the stop line and/or crosswalk if either are present.

I am not sure what the violation line is for a non-intersection signal such as for a crosswalk only signal. Probably the stop line.

Al

So does leaving the scene of an accident after witnessing it. As does posting about it on an internet forum.

so you have always stopped for a fender-bender you witnessed
and stuck around providing infos ? geeze, how can I be just like you ?

nice

call the Lexington Police Dept. In Mass, show them this thread, and then go get bent

http://www.lexingtonma.gov/police.cfm

last night, Oct 14th, 2008, intersection of Minuteman Bikeway and rt4. 8:15pm on or about
conditions: 58deg, dry, dark, partly cloudy, 15mph breeze

Cyclist hit the walk button. fender bender occured. rogue witness loose on the internets OMG WTF ????



you can go freaking bonkers, and be a maverick and DO WHAT YOU MUST

the Lex Police will contact Mass State Police, cybercrime division, and they
will have to contact the BF admins and have them provide my user infos

otherwise please go away. I will be home awaiting the paddy wagon LOLLERZ

So does leaving the scene of an accident after witnessing it. As does posting about it on an internet forum.

The two people involved probably wouldn't want some strange busybody meddling in their business.

so you have always stopped for a fender-bender you witnessed
and stuck around providing infos ?

Yes, because it is the law in my state, regardless of how minor or major the accident is. It probably is where you live too. It is also the right thing to do, regardless.

^^^ In Fl, the road rage capitol of the world, there is real, HUGE possibility
that one of these people will go ape-psycho on you as a bike rider. Seeing
the stuff I see here, I not only wouldnt have stopped but I would have pedaled
out of there like my life depended on it, because it probably did. :)

The car that slammed on it's brakes must have been from out of state. Squeezing the last little bit out of a yellow is an art form in Massachusetts.

Speedo

Yes, because it is the law in my state, regardless of how minor or major the accident is. It probably is where you live too. It is also the right thing to do, regardless.

What about the LEFT thing to do? Ever consider that not everyone votes the same way you do? leave the politics out of it eh?

D'oh!

I can't say much about this in particular, but I think there has been an increase rear end collisions at lights in places where there are camera's. If there person thought there was a camera or something, they may have over reacted.

I've read that's pretty common.

Not sure about other areas, but in Honolulu, if you have an accident with no injuries and property damage less than $3,000.00. The cops don't want you calling them. They want the 2 parties to simply exchange insurance information. (And here, what the cops consider $3,000 in damage; will likely cost you an actual $6,000 to repair).

A second consideration for those that want the cyclist to get involved in this minor accident: suppose he dose provide his information, the 2 drivers who both have some fault in this accident may decide to shift the blame to the cyclist. What happens if both drivers decide to claim the cyclist road out in front of them and therfore the cyclist was the cause of the accident. How honest do you folks think motorist are when they have someone else they can blame for their bad driving?

I did not cause an accident.

You were not directly the cause of the accident, no.

My own personal beef is that you appear to gloat of the fact that you had some small part in the chain of things that made it happen.

-Kurt

I would've stopped, but only to have a good laugh at them.

And before the morality police have another fit, it's not laughing at their 'misfortune', it's laughing at their stupidity.

You were not directly the cause of the accident, no.

My own personal beef is that you appear to gloat of the fact that you had some small part in the chain of things that made it happen.

-Kurt

I read it as just telling a funny anecdote. Not everything needs all this moral analysis. Don't you people ever joke?

That seems pretty extreme to me. Depending on your speed and where the stop line is, it may be pretty hazardous to stop for every yellow. But a lot depends on placement of the stop line which I'm sure varies greatly from place to place.

You mean I didn't have to pay that ticket. Where were you about 25 years ago when I needed you? I was being a typical cager and making a left turn. It was so long ago, I could be remembering wrong.

The car that slammed on it's brakes must have been from out of state. Squeezing the last little bit out of a yellow is an art form in Massachusetts.

Speedo

after moving to RI, MA is a cake walk.. MA drivers are predictably nuts.. RI you have nooo clue. Yellow lights are the cue to cram as many cars into the intersection as possible to completely block all traffic.

Last week on a road crossing on the bike path a guy blew right on through a normal red light (has a button but does not work as fast as the OP)

I read it as just telling a funny anecdote. Not everything needs all this moral analysis. Don't you people ever joke?

:eek: Not in A&S! :eek:

http://www.scottaerator.com/images/shocked.jpg

-Kurt