Road Cycling - Some things I'd like to address

I had a wonderful ride. I rode 12mi, only cut short because I had to go to lunch with my sister. I could have gone on for 15 or so. I remember when I could BARELY ride out 2mi. Look how far I've come! Im stronger than ever before.

But my main reason Im typing this is up is because I have a problem. And its old drivers. Im not trying to offend anyone here so PLEASE dont take this the wrong way. But it seems a lot of my problems with cars stem around old drivers. They just really dont seem to know whats going on. Today i was riding down the road at a pretty good clip and this old guy just pulled out infront of me. I had to jam my brakes and I almost ate **** into his trunk. Again, I was riding and this old lady got so close to me that her passenger side mirror brushed my left hip. THAT WAS SCARY! :eek: I also noticed that both drivers had handicap signs. Im not trying to imply that all old drivers are bad, but it seems they were given these handicap signs for a reason and MAYBE they dont need to be driving, or atleast should retest. What do you guys think?


PS. I really dont mean to offend anyone, and if i have im terribly sorry

No one would argue that there are drivers who really should not be on the road. Some of them are old, but not all of them. Some of them are drunk, stoned, eating and talking on the cell phone at the same time. Some are maniacs, and some are just plain stupid. Your own survival depends upon your own ability to predict what drivers may do and initiate a response based on that prediction. Sure, cycling would be safer if all the drivers on the road were alert and courteous, but that will never happen.

Statistically for me, I've had much more close calls with elderly drivers than any other group. These drivers definitely wouldn't be issued drivers' licenses outside of the US.

George

Yep. Old drivers are definitely a high danger group.

Just keep an eye out for the double-wide Oldsmobuicks with no discernable driver.

When I was a driver, I regularly - several mornings a week - watched the 90-year-old woman in the giant Ford Exploder from down the street turn the wrong way onto a one-way single-lane highway frontage road and travel half a mile against traffic to the drugstore, seemingly oblivious to the honks, swerves, and shouts of the oncoming drivers.

I personally live between several retirement homes and I just assume that the person pulling out of the driveway isn't going to stop. I know this stinks but this is a huge political issue..

Politicians do not want to support any legislation that prohibits or tests elderly people because as a group elderly people vote at a higher percentage than any other group.

This was brought up about 1 year ago when an elderly
person driving the wrong way in a Farmers market in Santa Monica killed 10 people and injured 100's... He drove in a crowded farmers market for over 1/2 mile before stopping. He said he was confused and hit the gas instead of the brakes.. Politicians made statements that testing should be done, but of course nothing has been done, so we just have to live with the fact that we have be ultra aware as the most vulnerable part of the traffic flow..

As cyclists regardless of who is driving we have to be defensive and completely aware of our surroundings at all times.. I have personally been hit twice, both hit and runs.

The 2nd biggest problem that I see are people using cell phones. I have been witness to people blowing lights and stop signs because of cell phones..

I have to say that older people should be forced to take have a medical exam every 6 months in order to keep their license. They can go into the DMV and pass the simple test there and still have serious conditions that can impair their driving. My mom is 75 and she knew to give her driving up 4 years ago and never objected to it. She told me that she was a danger to others and didn't want to hurt anyone else.

The other night, I was driving down a road, here in Nashville, and this older man was weaving from the side strip and back into his lane. Cyclists, including myself, and runners go down that side strip all of the time. If one had benn there, he could have killed them. I called the police and reported him.

I am 31 and have been driving for 6 years. I couldn't drive before that because of epilepsy; I had no objections to not driving because I also knew that I could kill someone if I had a seizure while behind the wheel. Older people need to take that same responsibility that I did and my mom has now done!

Why do elderly people hug the shoulder of the road?

Why do elderly people hug the shoulder of the road?

They are afraid of side swiping a car to their left and they cannot judge where their car is in relation to the line separating the lanes. I also think they are more afraid of hitting another automobile than a cyclist.

Why do elderly people hug the shoulder of the road?

Because as they get older, their depth perception AND vision get suspect. That combo causes them to be a poor judge of exactly where their car is in relation to the road - but oncoming traffic tells them with headlights flashing and horns honking when they're too far on THAT side, so they tend to be too far towards the shoulder to compensate.

Hey, not darken the condemnation of the old with a touch of reality, but I've had more problems with soccer moms than elderly drivers.

Get a soccer mom with two or three brats chug-a-lugging sodas, her cell phone to one ear, and a pooch licking her face--that's recipe for disaster. Not only that, when she finally notices the bicyclist ahead and swerves to barely miss him (we hope), she blames the cyclist for being on the road rather than her own ineptitude as a driver.

Yes, some elderly people are menaces, but so are a large amount of people in other age groups

They are afraid of side swiping a car to their left and they cannot judge where their car is in relation to the line separating the lanes. I also think they are more afraid of hitting another automobile than a cyclist.

Lack of lane-discipline runs rampant across the board. Despite all the criticism about how big and lumbering my SUV is, I somehow manage to keep it tracking within the boundaries of the lane at speed with room to either side to spare while watching people in their super-agile race-tuned autobahn-inspired sports-sedans float fully over into the shoulder and drive in it during the curves... sometimes they drive in it during the straights too. I have a feeling that it's not about type of vehicle or age of driver but general lack of driving skill and/or applied concentration on the part of the motoring public at large.

I have found that the older crowd will just maintain their position in the lane rather than move to the left. Of course this morning, a younger girl almost got me with her mirror and then after passing me shot way over to the left. Better late than never.

Why do elderly people hug the shoulder of the road?

LOL! Where I live (Chicagoland) they do this too. Only they do it in the outside lane!

Well now that we all agree that elder drivers are a problem how do we fix it. Im talking quick fixes. I guess one of my suggestions would be to just take the whole lane. If the lane is small enough I wouldnt have a problem just claiming it as my own for the time Im using it and there is another lane beside it so they can pass, it sure beats getting pushed into the curb or getting hit

Well now that we all agree that elder drivers are a problem how do we fix it. Im talking quick fixes. I guess one of my suggestions would be to just take the whole lane.

That may not be as good a fix though. Consider that if it's a problem with their depth perception going then you could end up getting rear-ended and run over. Such was the case as discussed in a previous thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=39228&highlight=lady+jeep).

A old guy was telling his friend about all his problems, knees, hands that had no grip, bad eye sight............then the friend says," we may be old, and have lots of problems, and live in a nursing home, but at least we still can still drive"

Whoa kids, lighten up! I am 71 years old, have a driver's license and have pedaled singles/tandems for a quarter million miles!
Been hit by a 16-year-old that just got his license and he 'did not see us' on our tandem. Twenty years later got hit at 45 mph by an old geezer (Hey, he was 75 and I am only 71!) with glaucoma, restricted license and NO insurance! Told police he didn't see anything and "I try to drive between the lines." Ouch! Takes all kinds!
Agree that seniors should take a driver road test once a year for a license, but bureaucracy what it is, lets me renew my license every 5 years here.
Rode my Merlin 26 miles today . . . didn't even have a close call!
Pedal on!

I agree with you. 16yr's old is too young to get a drivers license. I think there need to be some VAST improvements made to the driving system and roads in general.

Whoa kids, lighten up! I am 71 years old, have a driver's license and have pedaled singles/tandems for a quarter million miles!

FWIW, I personally couldn't care less about age. to me, it's about skill. I'd be quite happy to have people tested (fully tested as if they were just getting their licenses for the first time) on an annual or biennual basis regardless of age.

Pilots undergo this sort of testing schedule. I think one of the greatest compliments to my driving was when a fellow pilot who had never flown with me previously told me that he'd be happy to fly with me based on the level of skill, competency and judgement I've shown while he was a passenger in my Jeep. Now I'm not a perfect driver but because I know what kind of training pilots undergo and proficiency they're required to maintain, I took that as a definate compliment.

Im also in the process of becoming a police officer and I plain to crack down HARD on motorist in general when it comes to riding to close to cyclist.
Also Khuon, I read the thread you posted, Whats up with the "I didnt see him" defense. I cant just go run over some 8yr and say I didnt see him and get off. This society is screwed up

Whoa kids, lighten up! I am 71 years old, have a driver's license and have pedaled singles/tandems for a quarter million miles!
Been hit by a 16-year-old that just got his license and he 'did not see us' on our tandem. Twenty years later got hit at 45 mph by an old geezer (Hey, he was 75 and I am only 71!) with glaucoma, restricted license and NO insurance! Told police he didn't see anything and "I try to drive between the lines." Ouch! Takes all kinds!
Agree that seniors should take a driver road test once a year for a license, but bureaucracy what it is, lets me renew my license every 5 years here.
Rode my Merlin 26 miles today . . . didn't even have a close call!
Pedal on!

How much you want to bet cycling has something to do with your ability to drive (from a guy whose body keeps reminding him he turns 50 this year)? :)

on the road, the biggest nuisance for me IS soccer moms talking on the cell phone in SUVs

yes, i realize its cliched and beat-to-death and all... but i wouldn't be one to hyperbole. i seriously do seemingly have the most problems with these types of drivers.

elderly arent as problematic... just slow... and especially annoying on the freeway



as a rider in austin, though, the bigger danger are college-aged kids in daddy's F150. im in their age group, but these guys have no patience and no tolerance for bike drivers... they'll often honk behind you for awhile (oblivious to the open lanes available for passing), and then whizz by you intentionally cutting it close to scare ya....

if only their cars were as vulnerable as bikes...

Whoa kids, lighten up! I am 71 years old, have a driver's license and have pedaled singles/tandems for a quarter million miles!
Been hit by a 16-year-old that just got his license and he 'did not see us' on our tandem. Twenty years later got hit at 45 mph by an old geezer (Hey, he was 75 and I am only 71!) with glaucoma, restricted license and NO insurance! Told police he didn't see anything and "I try to drive between the lines." Ouch! Takes all kinds!
Agree that seniors should take a driver road test once a year for a license, but bureaucracy what it is, lets me renew my license every 5 years here.
Rode my Merlin 26 miles today . . . didn't even have a close call!
Pedal on!

Kudos to you! :D
A 16 year old hit my parked car infront of my house last year!
Pedal on, to you, too!

It might be that you are not riding assertively enough. Especially if you are getting "brushed", it probably means you're too far to the right.

That's one reason I use a glasses-mounted mirror. I can easily see the cars coming up from behind. If I see they are not moving over enough, I intentionally move my bike left 12-18" into the lane. I do this subtly, with plenty of room before they get close, while keeping an eye on them in the mirror. 99% of the time, that maneuver gets their attention and they shift left too. As they get close, I move towards the right edge of the road. If they don't move over, I still have plenty of time to dive for the right-hand edge.

Another way to avoid getting brushed is to intentionally "wobble" a bit as they are coming up behind you. This works well against teenagers who just want to give you a scare...they'll move left when they see your bike wobble.

I doubt these techniques would work with high traffic volumes, or high traffic speeds, but on the semi-rural roads that I typically ride on (very little shoulder, and speed limits around 45-50), it seems to work pretty well.

Also, if there is oncoming traffic and overtaking traffic at the same time, and no shoulder, I intentionally move to the center of the lane and indicate with my left palm facing backwards that the overtaking driver should not attempt to pass. Once the oncoming traffic clears, I move to the right and signal them to come around me. This works very well with older drivers, who are often unsure of how they should handle passing me. Essentially, I take the decision out of their hands. I've actually had many drivers wave (with all 5 fingers!) after these types of encounters, and it prevents the "squeeze play" of two cars and one bike abreast on a narrow road.

Why do elderly people hug the shoulder of the road?

Duh! We can't see!

OK, a more sane response -

First, would someone please define "older"?

I want to know if I have to go into a rant about not all of us "OLD" people being bad drivers or not!!

Lets see - I'm 54 (race age 55) and I race bicycles and also race cars (not with my bike usually). I think age is relative to a point.

As for the bad drivers, I live in an area notorious for bad "elderly" drivers (I am talking upper 70's and up). Yes they are a problem. I agree that there should be some sort of competency test for people who are above a certain age, but the problem is figuring out what age. On the other end of the age spectrum - what really burns me are the kids (20 and below usually) who race all over the place and tail gate while talking on their cell phones (or in the case of the women - putting on their makeup WHILE THEY TALK ON THE CELL PHONE). This freaks me out when I am on my bike or in the car (vintage RX7 rotary monster by the way).

When I go my new bike I opted NOT to put a mirror on it because I reolized how anxious it made me to see what was coming at me from behind. Call me foolish, but I feel more relaxed when I ride (and my hearing has improved emesly too - Not bad for an OLD person).

Now let me put my teeth back in and get back to eating my lunch.

Bill

Lets see - I'm 54

54 is NOT old. Not even close.

How to calculate "old":

1) Take your current age

2) Add 10 years to it.

Anything over that is "old".

Hope this helps...

54 is NOT old. Not even close.

Thanks, I needed that!!

That's right - 54 is not old. :)
I'm 59 and I have a BIG problem with old drivers.

A few weeks ago I was out riding and came to a red light. Shortly after I stopped an old couple in a Lincoln Towncar pulled up behind me. When the light changed they proceeded forward and started to turn right like I wasn't even there. It took some quick thinking and maneuvering on my part to keep from being run down.
F**king old people. If I could only afford one of those handlebar mounted rocket launchers.....

That's right - 54 is not old. :)
I'm 59 and I have a BIG problem with old drivers.

A few weeks ago I was out riding and came to a red light. Shortly after I stopped an old couple in a Lincoln Towncar pulled up behind me. When the light changed they proceeded forward and started to turn right like I wasn't even there. It took some quick thinking and maneuvering on my part to keep from being run down.
F**king old people. If I could only afford one of those handlebar mounted rocket launchers.....

If you have the launcher installed inside the top tube it doesn't interfeer with handling as much. Only the trigger needs to be on the handlebar. Mine looks like an extra bar end shifter!!

Glad you dodhed the old Fart!!

I saw pilots mentioned earlier. They have to really learn how to fly. They also have to learn emergency procedures, and actually do them.

To get a car license you putt around at 35MPH. Don't have to show any car control to speak of. Don't have to perform any emergency procedures. Grown men don't even know how to change a tire anymore! And then they hand you your license and you get on the freeway and drive home at 70MPH. Go figure.

The first prerequisite for a drivers license should be a passing grade in a high school level physics class. Then a level 1 performance driving school. (this is basic braking, and car control)

They found that in Glendale, CA $25 slipped to the DMV person and you don't have to take ANY stinkin' test. Of course Glendale has the highest pedestrian death rate in CA.

OMG. I'm ranting, aren't I?

I saw pilots mentioned earlier. They have to really learn how to fly. They also have to learn emergency procedures, and actually do them.

One of the things that stuck in my head from flight school was something an instructor said during one of my first preflights.

"Always act professionally... even if you're not one."

I wish this same attitude was instilled into the driving public.

As the name implies I am not young, but after over a million miles of driving everything (I have a class A CDL with ALL endorsements, I am legal to drive anything that can be driven on the road) with out a chargeable accident,

I feel that there are three types of drivers that scare me....

1.) the older driver that has lost their road perception.

2.) the drunk

3.) the young, male that has more testosterone than sense.

The old driver may hit me, the drunk may not even know that he hit me, but with either I feel that I survive. But the young male that thinks he is the best and fastest driver in the world and that a residential street is a pre-race track will probably kill me. I fear him!

One other type to add to that list...young females, yakking on a cell phone while changing the radio and attempting to weave around slower traffic. I see this more and more...they appear to drive very agressively, but unlike the young males, I think they're just clueless. I had one like this pass me on a completely blind 25 mph corner with a double yellow line...and I was going 40 at the time!