Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Vanilla Bicycles

Was poking around Momovelo and noticed he now carries Vanilla...then went to their site and saw some very nice eye candy. Has anyone here seen/ridden one? It's: http://www.vanillabicycles.com/

They're locally made in Portland. I haven't ridden one, but they've got a good local reputation, and I've seen one up close. Very pretty.

from what i heard from kai when he was working the deal out, momovelo is the ONLY bike shop distributor of vanilla frames now. and they were working together to come up with something unique for the shop. like a city bike with disc brakes and some other crazy ideas. whatever it looks like, it'll be beautiful and original.

vanilla... mmmm...

i was trying to work out how to make a trackbike ss/fg type thing with disks... but didn't get much further than that thought.

i really need to learn how to braze.

or alternatively, move continent and buy whatever vanilla dn momovelo are cooking up.

fssb
sparky

"i was trying to work out how to make a trackbike ss/fg type thing with disks... but didn't get much further than that thought."

I thought about that too. easiest way would
be to get a cyclocross fork with disc tabs.

I thought about that too. easiest way would
be to get a cyclocross fork with disc tabs.
and how hard would it be to get someone to braze a canti stud onto a [steel] track frame?

http://paulcomp.com/dskunit.jpg (http://paulcomp.com/diskunit.html)
wait a minute... did i just have a viable idea? [if only i had a steel frame lying about to experiment on...]


fssb
sparky

and how hard would it be to get someone to braze a canti stud onto a [steel] track frame?

http://paulcomp.com/dskunit.jpg (http://paulcomp.com/diskunit.html)
wait a minute... did i just have a viable idea? [if only i had a steel frame lying about to experiment on...]


fssb
sparky
Why in gods name would you want to add all that weight to the already perfect track bike frame? Other than for an exercise in mechanical nonsense.
Curious minds want to know.

fixedgearhead

i get off on subversion...

[thinking about it... a rear brake is probably overkill. stick with the cyclocross fork idea.]

[but that linkage is techy wank-fodder]

fssb
sparky

Why in gods name would you want to add all that weight to the already perfect track bike frame? Other than for an exercise in mechanical nonsense.
Curious minds want to know.

fixedgearhead

Crack, crystal meth, and speedball.

All in succession.

Crack, crystal meth, and speedball.

All in succession.
skunk, absinth, shrooms.
repeat until you need to call [hopefully sober] aquaintences to check if sane people still exist.

fssb
sparky

To much money for me to chain up to a fence, hammer through town.

perhaps I'm to practical, or poor.

skunk, absinth, shrooms.
repeat until you need to call [hopefully sober] aquaintences to check if sane people still exist.

fssb
sparky

Those aren't reasons, they're excuses. There is a difference. The reason explains the process. The excuse begs forgiveness.

fixedgearhead

reason:

get off on subversion...techy wank-fodder
excuses:

Crack, crystal meth, and speedball.

skunk, absinth, shrooms.
i hope that clarifies things.

fssb
sparky

reason:

excuses:


i hope that clarifies things.

fssb
sparky
A case of way to much money and not enough restraint.

Fixedgearhead

it's not like i have
[a] the frame [or any of the associated parts - canti boss, disc brake bits etc].
[b] the associated money to rectify that situation.

so tragically, the paul components site will remain as pornography in a metaphor that should probably feature a comparison to sex...

fssb
sparky

it's not like i have
[a] the frame [or any of the associated parts - canti boss, disc brake bits etc].
[b] the associated money to rectify that situation.

so tragically, the paul components site will remain as pornography in a metaphor that should probably feature a comparison to sex...

fssb
sparky
The internet is responsible for more bike lust than any 10 magazines. I fall victim myself. Sometimes I find myself oggling a Fat Tubed Aluminum Track Bike which is in direct opposition to all my avowed prejudices.
Stop me before I cave in and order one and then hate myself in the mourning.


Fixedgearhead

Stop me before I cave in and order one and then hate myself in the mourning.
freudian slip or deliberate?

nice word play if it was...

fssb
sparky

eo: tyrant - no shoes, no cake

freudian slip or deliberate?

nice word play if it was...

fssb
sparky

eo: tyrant - no shoes, no cake
The mind is a terrible thing to waste
But on the other hand,
the waist is a terrible thing to mind.

fixedgearhead

Sometimes I find myself oggling a Fat Tubed Aluminum Track Bike which is in direct opposition to all my avowed prejudices.
Fixedgearhead
Funny, I rode a mutli speed alm this morning, and am considering a al frame track bike now.

Love how all the power goes to the pedals.

Hate how jittery it is on corners.

Funny, I rode a mutli speed alm this morning, and am considering a al frame track bike now.

Love how all the power goes to the pedals.

Hate how jittery it is on corners.
some of the faults with alum bikes that I have are:

The welds are usually crude at best.
I understand there is a longevity question with accumulated fatigue failure.
I can live with the harsh ride; does the name Cinelli Olympic ring a bell?
Most of the alum frames use some form of the Threadless headset system.

All that being said, I have never owned one but sometimes, in the dark of night, after too much time on the computer, and a long winter stretch of snow, I come across one on a website and go, Hmm, that's interesting. Then I stop myself and say, What would the lugged gods say if you forced one of those modern evil creatures to abide in their realm in the basement. I know at that point it is time to shut it down until the cold clear light of day comes again and I can think clearly. But Then......


Fixedgearhead

some of the faults with alum bikes that I have are:

The welds are usually crude at best.

Cannondale's are pretty clean. Better than the specialized I saw. Not lugged, but nonetheless, somewhat pleasing if you're into asthetics. (I understand the asthetic push, but it's not practical for me.).



I understand there is a longevity question with accumulated fatigue failure.

I spent some time looking for proof of this. I've found little to none. Pretty even with steel. A bike magazine did an article on this lately.
My fear is how thin the tubes are in relation to locking it up. A dent, and it's done.



I can live with the harsh ride; does the name Cinelli Olympic ring a bell?

Tell me more, I'm looking for info on something that doesn't get wobbly under my wieght and hammering. Really.




Most of the alum frames use some form of the Threadless headset system.
I'm an ametuer at bikes, so either way, doesn't bother me. Yet.



All that being said, I have never owned one but sometimes, in the dark of night, after too much time on the computer, and a long winter stretch of snow, I come across one on a website and go, Hmm, that's interesting. Then I stop myself and say, What would the lugged gods say if you forced one of those modern evil creatures to abide in their realm in the basement. I know at that point it is time to shut it down until the cold clear light of day comes again and I can think clearly. But Then......


Fixedgearhead
I could trade you my C'dale, put one of those eccentric hubs on it, there you go.
Trade for the cinelli?

A case of way to much money and not enough restraint.

Fixedgearhead

Said the man with umpteen fixed gear bikes in his garage...and a dedicated van to cart them around in. :D

It's the jealousy talking--again.

orbea.

fssb
sparky

With regards to frame life:



I spent some time looking for proof of this. I've found little to none. Pretty even with steel. A bike magazine did an article on this lately.

Do a web search: 'bicycle metallurgy' All materials have a "fatigue limit" spec. For Al and carbon fiber, the fatigue limit is almost zero which means: If you ride it ... it will fail eventually. Of course that still could take years. Steel an Ti have very high fatigue limits.

With regards to frame stiffnes (ie power transfer to pedals):



Tell me more, I'm looking for info on something that doesn't get wobbly under my wieght and hammering. Really.

William, have you had the opportunity to ride a modern steel frame like Tru-Temper OX Platinum preferrably with oversized tubing? I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. I believe your Bianchi is older and may have alot more flex (do to the tubing diameter and alloy).

Take care...

Jim

With regards to frame life:



Do a web search: 'bicycle metallurgy' All materials have a "fatigue limit" spec. For Al and carbon fiber, the fatigue limit is almost zero which means: If you ride it ... it will fail eventually. Of course that still could take years. Steel an Ti have very high fatigue limits.Jim

I don't wish to get into this arguement again, however, this is a stretch of the truth to a large extent, and myth perpetuated on the internet and non proffesional talk. I called EVERY BIKE SHOP in the San Diego area, the BBB.. and there has been no fantastic frame failure. The situation you alude to would take..Lifetimes. Plural. No one on this forum has been able to post up a picture, or a REAL person with a situation of a failed AL frame. It just has not happened. And I've asked, posted.. questioned. I did the leg work because I wanted to know, not because one out of 4 frames I have is AL.


With regards to frame stiffnes (ie power transfer to pedals):

William, have you had the opportunity to ride a modern steel frame like Tru-Temper OX Platinum preferrably with oversized tubing? I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. I believe your Bianchi is older and may have alot more flex (do to the tubing diameter and alloy).

Take care...

Jim

I firmly beleive you're correct. I have been wanting to try a few of the "newer" frames out there (Bianchi Pista, Fuji..) to see how they respond. I am wondering.. and planning a newer FG in about 4 - 5 months, and am considering many options. The Cinelli seems to be at the top of the list from a recommendation stand point.

But I'm also going to keep an eye out for old track frames.

i've seen an AL frame fail. it wasn't pretty. i've also seen numerous cannondale tubes crumpled beyond recognition, chainstays, seatstays, top tubes...how they got that way, i don't know, but i've seen enough of them to steer me clear of any cannondale products.

my main concern about AL is with HOW it fails, when it does. it usually does so without warning. while steel (even forged steel) usually bends under stress, aluminum has a tendency to just snap. (unless it's near a weld and has been heat fatigued, in which case, steel crack, then snap.)

i don't trust OX platinum tubing on street BMX bikes. the stuff is just too darn stiff.

Said the man with umpteen fixed gear bikes in his garage...and a dedicated van to cart them around in. :D

It's the jealousy talking--again.
Yes I speak from the experience of never seeing a Lugged steel frame I didn't want. My collection comes from a lifetime of acquisitions tho. Just think what you young'uns have to look forward to.


Fixedgearhead

Would you like me to go out the back of my local bike shop and take pictures of the piles of Cannondales out there - all with snapped stays? At last count there was 5.

I largely agree that most modern Aluminium bikes are refined enough and well built enough to last a long time unless you're a super serious high milage pro, so the finite fatigue life is not so much an issue.

A bigger issue for me is the harsh ride quality, and the aesthetics when it comes to a nice traditional looking track frame. How much of a dickhead would you look on some bizarre super aero track frame cruizing around town? *Waits for people on said frames to flame my ass*

From the tone of this thread, my Vanilla would drive some on this board crazy. Lugged steel, of course. Nice Vanilla stainless horizontal rear drops, with a derailleur hanger added on. Cantilever brakes & room for fenders, actually Honsho aluminum fenders mounted from the start. The bike will be easily switchable from multi-gear to fixed gear.

I'll ride (or try to ride) my first brevet series this year on it as a multi-gear, but then will switch it to fixed gear for a week-long tour late in the summer. to swithch I swap the right-side crank arm and the rear wheel, and pull off the derailleurs. Next year I'll do at least the start of a brevet series fixed gear. If it's too hard, I'll switch it back to multigear.

Sacha is great to work with, thoughtful, creative, and a dang nice guy. He does gorgeous work.

You have got to post a pic. It sounds great.

Dave

I had a Fuji steel frame break from fatigue at the top of both seat stays, probably because I used to do a lot of touring / camping with this bike and frequently carried heavy loads on the rear rack. I've been riding aluminum for a couple years now without a problem. It seems to me that the construction of the aluminum bikes is a little stronger at the stress points, to compensate for the lower resistance of aluminum to fatigue failure.

I had a Fuji steel frame break from fatigue at the top of both seat stays, probably because I used to do a lot of touring / camping with this bike and frequently carried heavy loads on the rear rack. I've been riding aluminum for a couple years now without a problem. It seems to me that the construction of the aluminum bikes is a little stronger at the stress points, to compensate for the lower resistance of aluminum to fatigue failure.

I don't think that there is any question that aluminum bikes can be built strong. There are many examples of races being won by aluminum bikes. I think the question was the longevity factor of aluminum bikes with the known Stress Memory Failure of aluminum and it's Catastrophic Failure potential. Did your Fuji just collapse one day or did it get some stress cracks and gradually give up the ghost? The knock on aluminum is that you are riding it down the road and one day the final straw that breaks the camels back happens, and your bike frame breaks in two. Hopefully not during a 40 mph decent when you hit a small bump in the road. If you will, I think that aluminum bikes are almost to be considered to be disposable items. Pro racers rarely ride one for more than one season. The usual Replacement urge happens to most non pro racer people on a little longer time line; Say when the major Mfgrs bring out the latest sure fire whis-bang bike to let you ride one, "Just Like Lance". If you are somebody who keeps their bike for any extended length of time then you may experience the catastrophic failure I have mentioned. Hopefully not, but it is a hard to estimate time of accumulated failure potential. Especially if you subject it to extreme loads that touring entail.


fixedgearhead

Would you like me to go out the back of my local bike shop and take pictures of the piles of Cannondales out there - all with snapped stays? At last count there was 5.
Do that. And make sure you show what design they were (caad 2, 4 etc).

I'd like to see, really!

Can I just say them va-niller frames look dahmn tasty.

You have got to post a pic. It sounds great. Dave

I forgot about this thread, but here's a link to some pics of my Vanilla.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=3810&highlight=vanilla

I've had it 3 weeks, and I've ridden it on a 300km brevet and a 400km brevet. 500 miles total so far. It rides wonderfully. Easier and more comfortable than my Litespeed Tuscany, but still a good climber too. I crashed late in the 400k ride this weekend (60 miles to go). I trashed the front wheel and scratched the fenders a bit, but the frame is fine. I rode that last 60 miles a bit slower.

It's currently set-up as a multi-gear, but I plan to switch it to fixed gear after the 600km brevet in mid-May. The switch is easy. Change the rear wheel, left crank, and chain, and pull off the derailleurs & shift cables. A fixie in 45 minutes.... OK, a bit more the first time so I can get the chainline right.

Sacha did a great job. I'm very happy with it.

http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2004/roberts.htm

All I have to say is this is one of the prettiest bikes I've ever seen. Damn chrome lugs are sexy, and those track ends...let's not go there. I'm getting all hot and bothered. Need a cold shower.


Chris