Classic & Vintage - Which Campy Grouppo and Merckx Model am I?

I am looking to maybe acquire this bike from a gentleman locally. He says the bike is Chorus but it sure looks to me to be Athena. The RD seems to be a Chorus as it has the cut out on the pull shield thingy. Looking at old catalog I can't even tell there which group it is. How do you tell the difference?

Can anyone tell what model Merckx this is. The tubing says SLX. Anyone care to chime in about the quality?

The bike is from a coastal community so I would have to soak the frame and do a bit of clean-up. I actually don't mind the work - take my mind off my real job.

So, does this bike look any good? Estimated worth? (I know I hate answering that question, too)

Guy

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/1f313b147ZZZZZZZZZ89id42d05ccba0f17ae.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12241192590002

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/Picture-201152.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12241189680001

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/Picture-201148.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12241187830001

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/Picture-201149.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12241187550001

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/1fb1461g6ZZZZZZZZZ89ie175143fedcf1625/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/Picture-201155.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12241188610001

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/Picture-201157/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/Picture-201150.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12241188970001

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/1f212b135ZZZZZZZZZ89id513ad5cad6016d7.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12241192300002

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/Picture-201147.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=12241190170001

I have an Athena grouped bike. All of the Athena componenets are silk screened with "Athena" on them.

Actually, It has Chorus brakes and the aero levers just say "Campagnolo" after doing a quick verification. Crank, FD and RD are all screeened with Athena.

Nice looking machine. SL or SLX?

-Kurt

quality is excellent...I think it is a corsa SC. about $500 on ebay mas a meno.

Fix the rust.

oh, and lose the handlebar stem. they didn't have a good track record.

Nice looking machine. SL or SLX?

-Kurt
One of those photos shows an SLX sticker. Is $500 an approximate value in total?

One of those photos shows an SLX sticker. Is $500 an approximate value in total?

Wouldn't know. Never paid much attention to Merckx's other then for their looks. So happens that it wasn't until this very afternoon that I had ever seen one in person.

-Kurt

Athena in the late 80's early 90's seems to be Chorus, just a year or two later and a little heavier. Sometimes very hard to tell a difference visually. The rear derailleur is easier. If not labeled & Chorus, the adjustment screws are on the "bottom". Athena has them on the "top".

Athena in the late 80's early 90's seems to be Chorus, just a year or two later and a little heavier. Sometimes very hard to tell a difference visually. The rear derailleur is easier. If not labeled & Chorus, the adjustment screws are on the "bottom". Athena has them on the "top".

Well, here is the RD.

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/Picture-201153/web.jpg

One of those photos shows an SLX sticker. Is $500 an approximate value in total?


If the bike was in excellent non-weathered condition, I'd guess up to twice that. But the schmutzie finish on the parts and the rust will definitely hurt the resale. You can always make more breaking it up, though.

If the bike was in excellent non-weathered condition, I'd guess up to twice that. But the schmutzie finish on the parts and the rust will definitely hurt the resale. You can always make more breaking it up, though.
I think it can be had for about $300. I specialize in removing rust. Unless it is REALLY bad I can shine this sucker up. Corsa CX, huh?

yes. you are right, I was wrong. Corsa Extra, or Corsa CX, depending on year and release location. And that'd be a righteous deal. Jump on it.

I haven't ever had a Merckx, but I have had several friends that just won't ride anything else.

aw, crap. I forgot.

Aargh!

I'll let you know what the outcome is. I am taking a look at it tomorrow AM.

looks like crica 1992-1994 athena or possibly stratos.. with the exception of the FD which is C-record.

looks like crica 1992-1994 athena or possibly stratos.. with the exception of the FD which is C-record.

Good call on the FD. It matches the Record FD in the catalogs. I am not sure what the RD is. Someone said earlier that Athena had the adjustments on the Top. The Campy 1994 catalog shows Athena adjustments on the bottom too. The difference between Athena and Chorus seems to be a cutout on the pulley guard (for lack of a better name). The cranks could be either Athena or Chorus depending on the year. I am so damn confused.

Guy

The first generation Athena (1988-1990?) rear derailleur had the screws on the top, later generations on the bottom. This one is about 1992-1993, it could be Athena but Athena/Chorus/Record rear derailleurs are very similar and difficult to tell apart.
The chainset is Athena, not Chrous. The Chorus had selfextracting bolts and have a slightly different profile.
The Ergopower shifters are 1992, the very first generation.

The first generation Athena (1988-1990?) rear derailleur had the screws on the top, later generations on the bottom. This one is about 1992-1993, it could be Athena but Athena/Chorus/Record rear derailleurs are very similar and difficult to tell apart.
The chainset is Athena, not Chrous. The Chorus had selfextracting bolts and have a slightly different profile.
The Ergopower shifters are 1992, the very first generation.

Thank you for the info. Can these, first generation Erogs, be converted to 9 speed?

Guy

Campy Only can tell you. They do the rebuilds and upgrades.

Yours looks like mine. Mine is a 85 Corsa Extra with SLX tubing. Very nice riding bike and I still enjoy riding it. I have only seen 2 other Panasonic team color Merckx and yours is the third. Have fun working on it.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=5288670&postcount=73

Make mine the fourth.

FWIW, mine is a mixture of 9 spd. Record and Chorus. My frame had it's share of scrapes and scratches when i bought it a few years ago, but it was rust free and the components were later additions and in nice condition.

I was quite happy to pay about $750 for mine, if that gives you any frame of reference.

Best of luck,
Bob




QUOTE=steelblue;7677312]Yours looks like mine. Mine is a 85 Corsa Extra with SLX tubing. Very nice riding bike and I still enjoy riding it. I have only seen 2 other Panasonic team color Merckx and yours is the third. Have fun working on it.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=5288670&postcount=73[/QUOTE]

If you get the serial number off the bottom, finding out the vintage is much easier.. Here is a website to help you find out which model..

http://www.cadre.org/Merckx/

I don't have mine with me here at work to check, but mine didn't easily match any of the patterns in the Merckx registry. Anyone else have that problem?



If you get the serial number off the bottom, finding out the vintage is much easier.. Here is a website to help you find out which model..

http://www.cadre.org/Merckx/

OK, I bought the bike and paid $300. It is in much better condition then it looks in the pics. It only has a couple of places rust shows. I plan on stripping (the bike) and soaking it in that deck stuff to remove any rust inside. The paint is in incredible shape. With a little elbow grease this bike will shine.

Now for the bad part - at 57cm it is even close to my size (60-62). Ugh.

Here is the serial info:

drive side
7X
M

Non Dive Side
A
0129

I think this mean Corsa Extra and a 1986/1987.

Am I reading this right?

Guy

I pretty much stripped the bike tonight and was amazed at the condition - it is much better than I thought. I think I got a good deal here. I am having a bit of a hard tome getting those cranks off though.

When I took the fork off and found it very interesting that it has some handwriting on it that duplicated the info on the bottom bracket shell and states the size. Pretty cool stuff. gain, why couldn't this be a 61cm?

Guy

Yes, they can be converted to 9 speed, if you can find the index ring. Maybe Yellow Jersey or Branford have it.

Did you notice if the back of the crankarm has a date code? Something like a 51 in a square?

Did you notice if the back of the crankarm has a date code? Something like a 51 in a square?

I think it says 41. Does that make sense?

I think it says 41. Does that make sense?

1988, which I thought makes it a first generation Chorus, except that it's not right for a first gen. When did C-Record go to the hidden fifth? I'm now thinking, without looking at Velobase, that this may be an early C-Record. What do the C-R experts say?

Here is the pic of the fork with the handwriting that duplicated what the bottom bracket says. Cool, huh?

Guy

http://gallery.me.com/danspeirs/100358/DSC_1426/web.jpg

The frame really looks to be in OK condition. If after seeing it I liked it, I'd pay $300 to $400 for just the frame.

The rear derailleur (with two exposed pivots) and brifters (with extra metal at the tip of the lever) are the very 1st generation 8 speed integrated brifter C Record design. It was only made for one year in 1991 and revised in 1992. The crankset is either Chorus or C'DA depending on the thickness of the arms and degree of polish. C'DA has thinner arms and much higher degree of finish. They look identical looking head on.

The rear derailleur (with two exposed pivots) and brifters (with extra metal at the tip of the lever) are the very 1st generation 8 speed integrated brifter C Record design. It was only made for one year in 1991 and revised in 1992. The crankset is either Chorus or C'DA depending on the thickness of the arms and degree of polish. C'DA has thinner arms and much higher degree of finish. They look identical looking head on.

When I bought it the guy said it was a Chorus gruppo but it wasn't his bike. The Crank does have a 41 in a box but I can't find any definitive info on the net. Velobase is an excellent resource but most of the Campy cranks do not have the date code with the pic. I hope to help add my info to that site.

So do you think the brifters and RD are C-Record or just that design/style (confirmed the Brifters are Record 1992 design. They only had this design for one year)? The front derailleur is a Record according to pics.

Guy

The frame is one of the best of the era. The parts are a mish-mash, and judging by the condition, are ready for the trash can, at least if they were mine.

You got a great deal, but... Merckx took great care in preparing and chroming their frames. By the time rust has started to form, the frame has been exposed to some pretty serious elements. In your pic of the top tube cable guide, it's clear that the cancer has penetrated beneath the paint and chrome -- note the bubbles in the paint around the braze-on. "Soaking" is not going to fix this. To really correct it you'd have to strip the paint and the chrome and start from scratch. I'm guessing this isn't realistic a a $300 bike. Second best would be stripping the paint, sandblasting the chrome, and repainting. This doesn't sound too likely either.

IMO, your plan with the soaking etc. will result in a very nice frame with a serious problem that will, in the course of a few years, make it unusable. For the price, it's probably still a bargain.

The frame is one of the best of the era. The parts are a mish-mash, and judging by the condition, are ready for the trash can, at least if they were mine.

You got a great deal, but... Merckx took great care in preparing and chroming their frames. By the time rust has started to form, the frame has been exposed to some pretty serious elements. In your pic of the top tube cable guide, it's clear that the cancer has penetrated beneath the paint and chrome -- note the bubbles in the paint around the braze-on. "Soaking" is not going to fix this. To really correct it you'd have to strip the paint and the chrome and start from scratch. I'm guessing this isn't realistic a a $300 bike. Second best would be stripping the paint, sandblasting the chrome, and repainting. This doesn't sound too likely either.

IMO, your plan with the soaking etc. will result in a very nice frame with a serious problem that will, in the course of a few years, make it unusable. For the price, it's probably still a bargain.

Thanks for the response. From the look of the photos I originally posted the components were on their last leg. After stripping the bike and getting a closer look they are in incredible shape. Brifters are almost mint. I am going to take the components and put them on a bike my size and sell of the Merckx. The frame is actually in good shape. I will post photos when totally cleaned up. The rust isn't as bad as those original photos - but it isn't a mint bike or a show bike. it should be ridden and it isn't my size.

Guy

Thanks for the response. From the look of the photos I originally posted the components were on their last leg. After stripping the bike and getting a closer look they are in incredible shape. I am going to take the components and put them on a bike my size and sell of the Merckx. The frame is actually in good shape. I will post photos when totally cleaned up. The rust isn't as bad as those original photos - but it isn't a mint bike or a show bike. it should be ridden and it isn't my size.

Guy

Well, I was going to edit the post to read "...may be unusable in a few years" but it' too late for that now! I just wish the frame was my size; I would likely have taken it off your hands. Nice find!

keep it dry. Sand and touch up with the best match you can get. Keep it away from the beach. Wikipedia on rust:

When in contact with water and oxygen, or other strong oxidant or acids, iron will rust. If salt is present, for example, in salt water, the metal rusts more quickly. This chemical reaction is used in the production of handwarmers Iron metal is relatively unaffected by pure water or by dry oxygen. As with other metals, a tightly adhering oxide coating, a passivation layer, protects the bulk iron from further oxidation. Thus, the conversion of the passivating iron oxide layer to rust results from the combined action of two agents, usually oxygen and water. Other degrading solutions are sulfur dioxide in water and carbon dioxide in water. Under these corrosive conditions, iron(III) species are formed. Unlike iron(II) oxides, iron(III) oxides are not passivating because these materials do not adhere to the bulk metal. As these iron(III) compounds form and flake off from the surface, fresh iron is exposed, and the corrosion process continues until all of the iron(0) is either consumed or all of the oxygen, water, carbon dioxide, or sulfur dioxide in the system are removed or consumed.

Keep water away from metal, even rusted metal, and it will last for a lot longer than you will.

it is my size...but if I talked you out of it, my lovely wife would hang my ears next to it.

When I bought it the guy said it was a Chorus gruppo but it wasn't his bike. The Crank does have a 41 in a box but I can't find any definitive info on the net. Velobase is an excellent resource but most of the Campy cranks do not have the date code with the pic. I hope to help add my info to that site.

So do you think the brifters and RD are C-Record or just that design/style (confirmed the Brifters are Record 1992 design. They only had this design for one year)? The front derailleur is a Record according to pics.

Guy

Take a look at catalog page and you will see your rear derailleur there. I should say it is 1st generation 8 speed Record design. Also your ergo shifters has that extra metal at the lever tip which makes it shape like a triangle. Again this was done only at the 1st year before that extra metal was removed.

http://www.campyonly.com/images/catalogs/1991/91record.jpg


You notice my Guerciotti has the same ergo and derailleur design.

it is my size...but if I talked you out of it, my lovely wife would hang my ears next to it.

I hear you, sort of. My ears have been gone for years. <shameless plug>I put the frame on eBay with no reserve.</shameless plug> Whatever I get for it is fine (I already got some nice components). It may turn out to be a steal for someone.

GG

hmmmm....perhaps I could hide it under the bed.

"Why, no, dear, that old thing has been around for years..."

hmmm...

I hear you, sort of. My ears have been gone for years. <shameless plug>I put the frame on eBay with no reserve.</shameless plug> Whatever I get for it is fine (I already got some nice components). It may turn out to be a steal for someone.

GG

http://cgi.ebay.com/Eddy-Merckx-Corsa-Extra-SLX-Frame-RARE-Edition-NR_W0QQitemZ160296401005QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160296401005&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I'm sure that this is it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Eddy-Merckx-Corsa-Extra-SLX-Frame-RARE-Edition-NR_W0QQitemZ160296401005QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160296401005&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I'm sure that this is it.

Yep, that is it!

Nice Merckx! You'll get more than the $300 or $400 mentioned. Also, know that you will most definitely have second thoughts about selling it once your auction closes; regardless of the reasons for parting with it. I know I did when I sold this Merckx that was too small. I kept the parts though.:cry: But hey; it's not like I don't have another Merckx!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3038/2571093639_c32b0bbc86.jpg