I want to - and don't want to wear a helmet.

[closetbiker]

if mandating helmets save just one life, then its worth the hassle in my book.

When so many thoundsands more die from head injuries involving falls or motor vehicle accidents, why are cyclists singled out for mandatory laws? Wouldn't more lives be saved if others wore them too? Of course they would.

[dobber]

When so many thoundsands more die from head injuries involving falls or motor vehicle accidents, why are cyclists singled out for mandatory laws? Wouldn't more lives be saved if others wore them too? Of course they would.

Sure would. But "why don't they" isn't a valid argument against helmets.

[closetbiker]

Sure would. But "why don't they" isn't a valid argument against helmets.

That's not the argument.

You said if mandating helmets save just one life, then its worth the hassle in my book.

I said mandating helmets for others would save more lives than just cyclists being singled out. Your argument works against the principle of saving lives.

But that's not even the point. This is an advocacy forum. The act of pleading or arguing in favor of something, such as a cause, idea, or policy; active support. It seems to single out cycling to be subject to mandatory helmet laws, when the rates of head injury in cycling is not any greater than in any number of activities and by cycling many strokes (which are very similar to head injuries) could be prevented, runs counter to cycling advocacy.

Now don't confuse this with being against helmets. Nowhere have I ever said helmets are bad. I'm against mandatory helmet legislation and ignorance in cycling safety.

[Brillig]

Wearing helmets is not about saving your life, it's about reducing injury. Your chances of dying due to a bicycling accident are so miniscule that it's ridiculous to where a helmet just for that reason.

Otoh, people fall off of bikes all the time and a helmet can help in a lot of ways.

But I just don't understand the mandatory helmet thing. The old rule of thumb is that my freedoms extend until where your freedom starts. In other words, I should be able to do what I want as long is it doesn't infringe on someone else's freedom to do what they want.

In America, we are far from living this ideal. Why add one more thing?

[jfmckenna]

Wearing helmets is not about saving your life, it's about reducing injury. Your chances of dying due to a bicycling accident are so miniscule that it's ridiculous to where a helmet just for that reason.

Otoh, people fall off of bikes all the time and a helmet can help in a lot of ways.

But I just don't understand the mandatory helmet thing. The old rule of thumb is that my freedoms extend until where your freedom starts. In other words, I should be able to do what I want as long is it doesn't infringe on someone else's freedom to do what they want.

In America, we are far from living this ideal. Why add one more thing?
I think it starts to infringe on the tax payers wallet. iow if you slam your uninsured head on the curb and go veggie then we get stuck with the bill...

[closetbiker]

I think it starts to infringe on the tax payers wallet. iow if you slam your uninsured head on the curb and go veggie then we get stuck with the bill...

Lame argument.

How about all those motorists and pedestrians that smack their unhelmeted heads and go veggie and we get stuck with the bill?

How about all those that aren't getting good cardic exercise by not riding bikes? Why should I pay for their health care?

Why should smokers get health care?

Are we going to start up diet police too?

A good way to stop rape is to slap a chastity belt on all women but we'd never do that.

Grown ups should do what they want as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

[Brillig]

Not only that, but exactly how much is it costing the average tax payer? I'm guessing pocket change. Is that enough to restrict freedoms over?

[dobber]

Grown ups should do what they want as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

But who's going to define the boundaries of that "hurt".

[jfmckenna]

Lame argument.

How about all those motorists and pedestrians that smack their unhelmeted heads and go veggie and we get stuck with the bill?

How about all those that aren't getting good cardic exercise by not riding bikes? Why should I pay for their health care?

Why should smokers get health care?

Are we going to start up diet police too?

A good way to stop rape is to slap a chastity belt on all women but we'd never do that.

Grown ups should do what they want as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

Yea I'm just saying I think that is the argument lame or not. It's the argument that requires you by law to wear a seat belt in your car in Virginia. That and I supose you could injure or kill someone else by flying through the air and hitting someone. I rode 60 miles last week end with a guy who wears no helmet. What ever it's his business. BUt I do agree with previous posters that ok while it may not hurt my wallet in taxes it sure does hurt those that care for you esp if you have kids.

"Are we going to start up diet police too?"

No but the police around here sure could use some doughnut free diets :D

[SD Fixed]

http://www.procycling.com/news_main.asp?newsId=5089

[closetbiker]

http://www.procycling.com/news_main.asp?newsId=5089
*Alessio-Bianchi rider Michael Skelde, who crashed heavily on Tuesday during the first stage of the Three Days of De Panne, probably owes his life to his helmet, writes Susanne Horsdal.*

That's pure opinion, nothing more.

Again, my objection is to spead false or misleading information like, "Your odds increase 80% with a helmet", that leads to unbalanced decisions about how best to stay safe.

Balance the opinion of the posted link with real life examples of other racers.

In 1999, MANUEL SANROMA (Spa-Fuenlabrada) was killed in a violent crash in the second stage of Vuelta a Catalunya. The crash happened 1 kilometer from the finish, when riders were jostling for position. Sanroma, was wearing a helmet.
On March 15th, Garrett Paul Lemire, 22, crashed and died during Saturday's (March 15) Tucson Bicycle Classic. He had swerved into the path of a car to avoid hitting other riders who had crashed ahead of him. Lemire crossed the center line and collided with the car which was travelling in the opposite direction. Helmet use is mandatory in US racing.
Just over one month later on May 17th, Japanese rider Haruko Fujinawa died after a crashing while practising for the first round of the NORBA series, the US's premier MTB race series.
Deaths of other helmeted riders in North American cycle racing include Canadian veteran cyclist Joe Hailey last year and world class US women's pro, Nicole Reinhart in 2000. Hailey crashed and died from head injuries in a race in March 2002 in Langley, British Columbia. He was among several riders who went down in a bunch sprint at the finish line of the Spring Series Road Race. Canadian racing authorities also require helmet use. Reinhart, a world class cyclist riding for Saturn, died September 2000 after crashing and striking a tree on the last lap of the Tour of Arlington.
Helmeted cyclist deaths rarely, if ever, get much of a mention in the press.

I've posted on ICBC's reports on how the difference of head injuries between those that wear helmets and those that don't are much different than the 80% claim. It's more like 10%

In the last 3 years ICBC has reported there have been 15 deaths of cyclists in B.C. 7 wore helmets, 8 didn't.

This is a very grey area with many areas of safety to be addressed.

Helmets are hardly the magic bullet that some feel them to be.

[ngateguy]

*Again, my objection is to spead false or misleading information like, "Your odds increase 80% with a helmet", that leads to unbalanced decisions about how best to stay safe.

First off there are recent studies to confirm the 80% odds benifit to helmets and certain crashes. Second no one has ever even implied that a helmet will save your life in all accidents, it would be foolish to even think that.

All you are really doing is trolling around for a fight

The original question was not to convince him not to wear a helmet but convince him why to wear a helmet.

So in your best words convince him to wear one otherwise don't say anything

[ChezJfrey]

if mandating helmets save just one life, then its worth the hassle in my book.

When so many thoundsands more die from head injuries involving falls or motor vehicle accidents, why are cyclists singled out for mandatory laws? Wouldn't more lives be saved if others wore them too? Of course they would.

Heck, lets also mandate everyone travel without a car - that'll save at least one life. Then, mandate everyone forgo cheeseburgers and fries, that'll save someone I'm sure. . . then ban cigarettes, ice cream, electricity, water (have you seen the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide? www.dhmo.org) - I'm sure each of these has killed someone at one time or another. I mean, if it saves just one person it's worth it, right?

[closetbiker]

All you are really doing is trolling around for a fight

Really. Trolling.

I jump in after 32 posts to this thread to tell the original poster that he should convince himself using balanced evidence.

I jump in after a couple of dozen more posts when you post something that I have direct evidence that is contrary.

This is trolling?

No one has ever even implied that a helmet will save your life in all accidents, it would be foolish to even think that.?? I count at least a dozen posts where this has been put down.

I've also said don't confuse this with being against helmets. Nowhere have I ever said helmets are bad. This is a very grey area. I just want some fair and balanced coverage of the subject. That's why I jumped in. The doom sayers were getting out of hand.

In the end, things will play out one way or the other anyway. If things are decidely beneficial the majority will adopt the best way.

[LittleBigMan]

Mandating helmets does not necessarily make biking safer, since the greater need is education.

But helmets do protect against brain injury to some extent. Even soccer players who have had multiple concussions while playing (no skull fractures) have been shown to exhibit decreased problem-solving ability overall.

[justin sane]

Ok, I'll throw my 2 cents in here. I have mixed feelings about helmets myself. Up until recently I never wore a bike helmet. A couple weeks ago, I got an e-bike and found out that according to California law, you have to wear a helmet to legally operate any "motorized bicycle" so I went out and bought a helmet that doesn't look too bad. I wear it when I ride the e-bike, even though I can actually ride faster on any of my other bikes, mainly because I can't afford to pay the fine if I get pulled over without a helmet. My thoughts on the helmet? It's VERY uncomfortable. I also don't really feel much safer with the helmet than I did without it. Sure, I know I have slightly less chance of severe head injury if I crash, but honestly I know how to fall and I've crashed my bikes hundreds of times in my lifetime, I've NEVER landed on my head. I've also never suffered any broken bones, or any injuries more serious than scrapes and bruises.

That being said, since I have the helmet, I'll wear it. Especially when I ride the e-bike, since I can't afford to get a ticket for something so stupid.

[gattm99]

WOW it'd Deja Vu,

A long time ago I posted a similar thread about not wanting to wear a helmet and I don't even need to read these replies I look at the names and know pretty much everything that has been said.

Since my post I have bought a helmet, I got it at a second hand store for 3 bucks, I have yet to wear it. Been setting around for about 6 months. I'm still OK but I guess I could get mowed down any day.

Here is my advice to the orginal poster of the thread don't worry about what the f'ers say do what you want.

[seely]

Again, my objection is to spead false or misleading information like, "Your odds increase 80% with a helmet", that leads to unbalanced decisions about how best to stay safe.

Balance the opinion of the posted link with real life examples of other racers.


So you are saying those who crashed may have been safer without a helmet? I don't see what there is to balance here. Regardless of whether its 10% or 80%, you are still SAFER w/ a helmet than without. I don't think anyone can argue that.

[spinner5339]

I just had a crash 3 days ago, took a lot of skin off me and I had a bruise cheek, the helmet had a scar just above the bruised cheek. I would be nursing a very sore head without the helmet.

[Chris L]

So you are saying those who crashed may have been safer without a helmet? I don't see what there is to balance here. Regardless of whether its 10% or 80%, you are still SAFER w/ a helmet than without. I don't think anyone can argue that.

I think Closetbiker was objecting to the "80%" quote. Personally I wear a helmet for the additional protection it provides in the event of an accident, but I'd argue that accident prevention is more important anyday.

[closetbiker]

I think Closetbiker was objecting to the "80%" quote.

Bang on Chris.

That argument is misleading, deceptive and manipulative.

The only way to get that "80%" level of harm reduction is through prevention and that takes a lot more work and co-operation from all road users than just having cyclists put on a helmet.

[catatonic]

water (have you seen the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide? www.dhmo.org) -

Hehm nice link. That was originally an attempt at satire if my memory serves me right.

[pyze-guy]

I've got this mentality in my head that I do not want to wear a helmet when I resume bike riding after an accident. So, my parents will press me to wear one. While given what can happen; I find myself still not wanting to wear one. I only ride on sidewalks, and such - no streets or anything. While that's not an excuse to wear one I still feel like not wearing one.

However, at the same time - I kind of want to.

Convince me.

You could read this (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=52173).

[Malkuth]

Not to sound to crass, but as a friend of mine once said "I wear a helmet because I really don't feel like have someone else wipe my ***** for the rest of my life."

I love that.

Yes wear a helmet. :)