Classic & Vintage - New Cinelli frameset

A little OT, but the Road Forum would show no love. Welded stainless with fastback stays and an old logo badge. I like it and will go out on a limb and call it classic (although the fork is a bit tacky).

http://www.cinelli.it/prodotti/biciclette/dettaglio/dett_xcr.jpghttp://www.cinelli.it/prodotti/biciclette/zoom/zoom_xcr.jpg

hummm..... YUCK!

Not for me, sorry.

hummmm....yeah!

where do we read more?

No lugs? No hugs.

But it certainly is different - and I like different. Even if I'd never think to take it out of the house...That fork is a real sore-thumb.

Alright, we are 2 for 4!

More here, http://www.cinelli.it/scripts/prodotti.php?Id=1&lang=EN&IdBici=239

Cookie cutter crap with an Italian name! All the Italian bikes of today using the names of yesterday are a disgraceful representation of a respectable heritage. Shame on them. Wow a classy head badge with a cookie cutter carbon fork. Ugh!

The art of a steel frame is in the crafting of the blades.

I 'sort of' like it.

I'm not a fan of the nouvo sloping geometry or carbon forks, but the proof is in the riding. Are you thinking of getting one?

FWIW, I think it would look good with the newer Campy Carbon components, and I'd love to take one for a spin.

This coming from an owner of a 1984 Cinelli SC, bought new and still ridden a lot. One of my favorite bikes, actually.

Cookie cutter crap with an Italian name! All the Italian bikes of today using the names of yesterday are a disgraceful representation of a respectable heritage. Shame on them. Wow a classy head badge with a cookie cutter carbon fork. Ugh!

The art of a steel frame is in the crafting of the blades.

Not much love in C&V either. ;):D

I 'sort of' like it.

I'm not a fan of the nouvo sloping geometry or carbon forks, but the proof is in the riding. Are you thinking of getting one?

FWIW, I think it would look good with the newer Campy Carbon components, and I'd love to take one for a spin.

This coming from an owner of a 1984 Cinelli SC, bought new and still ridden a lot. One of my favorite bikes, actually.

Nah, I'm not going to buy one, but I do like it. I wonder if they would swap an SC fork? I'll email and ask.

2009 paramount = miss

Cinelli = Hit

If I am buying NEW steel I want it to be at the forefront of what steel has to offer. Stainless, TIG, super light, this is what I want in a NEW racing frame, that is what cinelli is offering. It IS a tribute to the heritage of the company as producing top notch racing machines. This machine uses the best methods and materials available to make a competitive steel frame. I like it. Paramount.. no thanks. Cinelli, yes please.

I wonder if the folks giving negative opinions have actually ridden one (or any modern bike), or are maybe suffering from a bit of 'bike envy', or perhaps they are Luddites, who knows.

I love the stainless look, love the lack of splashy decals, and think it would look great with a carbon gruppo.

I'll pass judgment on the bike itself until after someone lends me one for an hour or two ;-)

I agree with OFG. Aside from the sloping tt, which is an unavoidable part of the market at this point, I think Cinelli got aesthetics and materials mostly right with this frame.

It's a good trend anyway.

kbjack, Have you found a new bike yet? We should try to get in one more ride before I head back to AZ.

I give it a vom, and a why bother. To wear the Cinelli name and be impressive, it would have to be... well, impressive.

Good points:
Well-done joints.
Chrome.

Bad points:
Everything else.

-Kurt

though i like the classic lug look, personally i think it is gorgeous

kbjack, Have you found a new bike yet? We should try to get in one more ride before I head back to AZ.

Nothing yet (well, I did pick up an older Koga Miyata Randonneur, but that doesn't count as new). Actually, the Supercorsa is at the top of the list for potential new rides. My guess though is that I'll be on the Bianchi for some time to come. Any new addition would have to have that feature allowing it to turn invisible any time my GF looks at it. It would also have to be able to pay rent + winter utilities. Maybe I should post this one in the dreambike thread.

But a ride anytime this week would be great, just let me know.

(Sorry for the OT-ness.)

Cookie cutter crap with an Italian name! All the Italian bikes of today using the names of yesterday are a disgraceful representation of a respectable heritage. Shame on them. Wow a classy head badge with a cookie cutter carbon fork. Ugh!


The oft-forwarded opinion that every vintage steel Italian bike was a hand-crafted masterpiece of the frame-builders art is essentially intentional naivete. You are ignoring the evidence. Romanticism aside, the average C&V Italian ride came with terrible paint, bad chrome, decals that didn't stick, geometries that didn't work, a drivetrain that didn't shift and abysmal quality control. They can't all be one of "the great ones." There's a lot to be said for "cookie cutter" bikes if the result is a higher quality product. If you are racing you want reliable consistency, not flair, and the fact of the matter is that high-end Taiwanese bikes of today are built to much higher QC standards than vintage steel.

As a long-time artist metalsmith myself I am passionate about the craftsmanship of a fine hand-made steel frame. However, from an engineering perspective there's very little room for that kind of bike in the competitive world. I, for one, think it's a brilliant step forward. The possibility of seeing steel in the peloton is both exciting and a form of vindication for all of us. We are FAR from exhausting the characteristics of the material and the more R&D in the field the better, IMHO.

Also, give iab some credit, the man knows Italian bikes, and he definitely has style and taste.



If I am buying NEW steel I want it to be at the forefront of what steel has to offer. Stainless, TIG, super light, this is what I want in a NEW racing frame, that is what cinelli is offering. It IS a tribute to the heritage of the company as producing top notch racing machines. This machine uses the best methods and materials available to make a competitive steel frame. I like it. Paramount.. no thanks. Cinelli, yes please.

Well said. The revered Italian marques earned their reputation by producing championship-quality bicycles. They did so by building with the best techniques available, the highest quality components, and the latest technology, for their time. Tullio Campagnolo was a technologist, not a luddite. In the modern world of bicycle competition you can't build champions out of lugged steel with friction shifting, period. If Cinelli was building losing bikes in an attempt to be "retro," that would be a disgrace to the name, there are plenty of niche market builders out there already. For those of you who think otherwise, where is your penny-farthing?

The oft-forwarded opinion that every vintage steel Italian bike was a hand-crafted masterpiece of the frame-builders art is essentially intentional naivete. You are ignoring the evidence. Romanticism aside, the average C&V Italian ride came with terrible paint, bad chrome, decals that didn't stick, geometries that didn't work, a drivetrain that didn't shift and abysmal quality control.

Can't agree entirely about the drivetrains, but I can in regards to framebuilding and paint. I've yet to see an Italian machine that I've been entirely impressed with in either respect. Thin chrome that rusts through the surface easily, thin paint on most (or in the case of the glut of cheap-o Guerciottis that popped up out of nowhere last year on eBay, paint thicker then bad powdercoat), and if not thin, flaking.

Lug prep and brazing quality? Yech. I'll take a Japanese-made machine instead (much as I dislike most of them), thank you very much!

-Kurt

A little OT, but the Road Forum would show no love. Welded stainless with fastback stays and an old logo badge. I like it and will go out on a limb and call it classic (although the fork is a bit tacky).

http://www.cinelli.it/prodotti/biciclette/dettaglio/dett_xcr.jpghttp://www.cinelli.it/prodotti/biciclette/zoom/zoom_xcr.jpg

I like it.
Kind of like Sophia Lauren's daughter.
You know the original was lovely, so...credit the heritage.

Did you know that you can still get a lugged Columbus-tubed Cinelli frame, new?
I priced one the other day, only available as a complete bike, but well under the carbon slingers.
I think it was $3800 at LickBike with Ultegra.

Still, if polished coolness is your thing, that polished
Ti Litespeed on eBay is begging for an owner who will build it right.

Did you know that you can still get a lugged Columbus-tubed Cinelli frame, new?

GVH Bikes has new Cinelli Super Corsa framesets for $1100.

I love the little Columbus bird on the fork.

I think that by the '70s, the Italians had pretty much gotten the modern racing geometry down. The geometry of racing bikes hasn't changed much from what the Italians were making then. If a stock bike fits you that is.

I think a lot of bikes were made very well, although some Italian companies got pretty sloppy as production increased. And they really were making them to look good (flashy maybe?) from the crowd, not up close and personal like American builders tend to do.

I have a Viner, which is a company that always had value bikes. In 1980, I could afford $300 for a Columbus SL frame, I wasn't going to spend twice that much for a better known name and a little bit better paint job. Although the paint job on my bike is really neat. It has a sparkle clear overcoat. Another interesting thing is that it turns purple in street lights, but in the day, it's baby blue. One time I was in a night race, and I thought someone had stolen my bike because I saw a purple Viner, not blue.

I am more interested in the tool. I have a Walker frame made from Columbus Life, with apparently very similar tubing dimensions. It rides very well; unfortunately it is damaged and unrepairable.

Steel simply rides better. I would have to be on butt-numbing drugs to not notice the difference between the Colnago Super yesterday and the Carbon Fiber wonder bike today. I'd also have to have a third more lung capacity to not notice the eight (!) pounds difference between the two...especially when my lovely wife is intent on murdering me, on every climb.

Is this some kind of stainless?

Remarks on the quality of Italian bikes made me search for this comment someone made on the CR list last year:

I did a nice ride to visit from Verona to Lago Caldonazzo to visit Dario
Pegoretti last year. We chatted about many subjects and I remember in
particular his comments about DeRosa. Dario said that while many builders
could build one perfect bike out of 100, Ugo DeRosa would build 100 perfect
bikes out of 100.

Is this some kind of stainless?appears to be columbus XCR, which is stainless. So I guess that's not chrome, just polish.

typically, a modern steel frame is less than 2 pounds different from the lightest bikes given the same components.

No lugs? No hugs.
Ahahahahahaha!

New forum title-worthy.

gonna make all the Schwinn fanboys cry

It is striking, and I'd be willing to take one for a test-ride. I'd want an appropriately matching fork though.

That said, I would rather have a 1955 Frejus. :D

Beautiful! I'd ride it like I stole it and be darn proud doin' it. And this from the owner of the following Cinelli:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/KRhea/Bikes/IMG_0470.jpg

seeing as how it's essentially a columbus xcr stainless version of my current favorite ride, with identical geometry specs to my ultrafoco nuovo super corsa, i'll bet i'd like this new cinelli xcr as well.
tho, i'd generally prefer to see some lugwork for the visual interest, i personally think it pulls off a pretty classy aesthetic.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s269/caterham1700/cinelli061-1.jpg



http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s269/caterham1700/cinelli076.jpg


that said, my old derosa has nothing to worry about.
best,
k

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s269/caterham1700/derosa001-1.jpg

I'd sell my Gazelle, Corky and my Marioni Special for a De Rose exactly like Caterham's, but in my size... about 61cm c-c... That is my all time favorite paint.

... and I'd put a concor MAX saddle on it.

I'd sell my Gazelle, Corky and my Marioni Special for a De Rose exactly like Caterham's, but in my size... about 61cm c-c... That is my all time favorite paint.

... and I'd put a concor MAX saddle on it.

Too bad it has to be black - I can get you one locally in teal.

-Kurt

But man, that fork looks barf when it's attached to the rest of the frame.

I have enough room in my garage for a new Cinelli.

you have NO IDEA how happy my butt has been since san marco came out with the regal. i still have my long ago retired concor max waiting in the closet should i need my 'correct' saddle for some reason.
here's a pic taken in 1983 on a ride over the north cascades hiway. btw-check out the gearing



You were younger and stronger then, caterham. I bet you've retired that cog and 'small' ring, too ;-)

you have NO IDEA how happy my butt has been since san marco came out with the regal. i still have my long ago retired concor max waiting in the closet should i need my 'correct' saddle for some reason.
here's a pic taken in 1983 on a ride over the north cascades hiway. btw-check out the gearing

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s269/caterham1700/cyclingtrips83001-1.jpg

Hey, no need for bragging about how once upon a time you were able to bike a mountain tour on a half-step with corncob! We were all, well at least closer to there at one time!!!

Road Fan

that pic makes my knees ache just looking at it... i believe it's something like a 52/48 & 13-21. presently i'm running a 52/41 & 13-23 and have absolutely no inclination of doing climbs like those.
that particular ride crossed 3 mountain passes of over 3000ft of climbing each & covered nearly 250 miles in 2 days and incidentally was my second 'date' with the future mrs.cat.- she happened to be riding her cherished bertin at the time with 52/39, 13-24 'ladies' gearing.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s269/caterham1700/cyclingtrips83019-1.jpg

Now he's bragging about his wife. Will it ever end? :p :D

i wouldn't count on it ;)

kIf you got it, flaunt it.

Beautiful! I'd ride it like I stole it and be darn proud doin' it. And this from the owner of the following Cinelli:


Nice!

Is that a "Model B"? The fork rake looks more modern than the frame...

you have NO IDEA how happy my butt has been since san marco came out with the regal. i still have my long ago retired concor max waiting in the closet should i need my 'correct' saddle for some reason.
here's a pic taken in 1983 on a ride over the north cascades hiway. btw-check out the gearing


I have that same seat bag on my racing bike right now. It is amazing what kind of gears I used to be able to push, compared to struggling to go up hills now in a 44-26. I'm working on it though.

Fortunately I'm too young to have ever pushed bigger gears than I do now, unfortunately I'm probably riding even wimpier gears now than most of you are now, which means I'll never ride 48/21 over any kind of a mountain!

I remember the days when 52-14 was the gear of choice, and 52-16 was the bail-out. :o If I could have my 20 year old body again. (sigh)

I had the good fortune of seeing the xcr at EuroBike and I LOVED it. And I have two early 60's Cinelli an SC and a Mod.B

I think that they took a cue from Rad's Pinarello!

Also, give iab some credit, the man knows Italian bikes, and he definitely has style and taste.


Thank you for the complement, but when someone mentions my style and taste I can't help but think of Caddyshack, " 'I'm no slouch myself.' Don't sell yourself short Judge, you are a tremendous slouch." or "I bet you get a free bowl of soup when you buy something like that. Looks good on you though." :D

I like it but cannot imagine it built up....are there any pics of a complete build?

A little OT, but the Road Forum would show no love. Welded stainless with fastback stays and an old logo badge. I like it and will go out on a limb and call it classic (although the fork is a bit tacky).

http://www.cinelli.it/prodotti/biciclette/dettaglio/dett_xcr.jpghttp://www.cinelli.it/prodotti/biciclette/zoom/zoom_xcr.jpg

Me wantee!

I'd sooner a 3TTT fork on it, I like the straight blade look on new bikes. Either super record or sram red, maybe Zipp wheels or black fulcrum racing zeros... 3ttt stem and bars would be too and of course an arione. Sweet.....

well, since I have no idea how it rides, I'll make a snooty critique of this thing strictly based on the aesthetics (mine, of course): I think they missed when they put a carbon fiber fork on a polished SS frame: stick with the theme, make the fork of the same material and in the same style (whatever that style may be). Missed again with the "modern/retro " badge: it's neither... should have done it using the same acid-etched treatment as the other matte graphics. Their design brief got polluted along the way (I'd guess "marketing" genius is to blame), this frame will never fit some imaginary demographic of straddling the modern and the "classic". What it should be is a thoroughly modern expression of what Cinelli craftsmen and talent can create with (modern) stainless steel tubing...IMHO. And the proof of the pudding is in the eating: if it rides like a dream then we'll love it even if it's an ugly duck.
edit: I went to the Cinelli site to see more pics (nope), but read this in the description; "aluminium ergo power plate “Wing”, oversize bottom bracket “BB30”. Columbus’ steel has never been so close to perfection."
aluminum what??

Would I have to sell my car to buy one?