Cyclocross - How much urban abuse can a 'cross bike take?

So I've been asking around a couple of LBS's about the type of bike for me. At first, I was definite I wanted a 'cross bike, for the versatility of it, and the fact that it was supposedly built stronger. However, an LBS said that it wasn't necessary, because 'cross bikes at my price range (< 1K) were just road bikes with the ability to take thicker tires. But then another LBS said that 'cross bikes were built stronger, and were better on not-so-smooth roads. And I've been asking them all the same question: "Can road bikes take the abuse of going off curbs, or should I get a cyclocross bike?"

Anyway, here are the bikes that I've been looking at. These are all '09s.

Road: Specialized Allez compact, Cannondale CAAD9 7
Cross: Giant TCX 2, Cannondale Cyclocross 6 (if it's in my price range), and I'm not sure what else there is. I don't like the looks of the Kona Jake.

So is the TCX's frame really that much stronger than the road bikes'? And what about carbon forks? I'm not sure which bikes come with carbon forks, but how would they handle the curbs? When I go up curbs, I pull up the front wheel, and when I go off curbs, and I'm at a decent speed, I try to land with both wheels when I come down.

I should mention that I'm a skinny kid, weighing at ~100 lbs.

Also, I don't really like the "classic" look of thin diameter steel, I prefer to have something a bit more modern.

i take my cross bike to the local xc trails, i go over logs ect with, my cross bike has a winwood carbon fork and but i use my 38mm tires (32mm for actual cross riding), oh and i weigh 'bout 150. anyway yes they are generally built tougher, and actually its the expensive ones that are less tough, i've seen a cross bike with a radial front wheel, a carbon rear and carbon fork, still burlier than a road bike but a cross bike for about 1k is gonna be all alloy or steel prolly with a carbon fork but it will have an alloy crown and steer tube. Anyway i think a cross bike is a great bike if you can only have 1 bike, my cross bike was my first road bike, i have had a wheelset with 23mm race tires and one with cross tires, they are however heavier ect and not suited for road racing / competative group riding but w/e unless you plan on only ever riding on the road, that being said i do have a road bike and a mtn bike and my road bike is def better on the road, but thats also b/c its alot more expensive. Also cross bikes are nice in bad weather

If i recall correctly specialized makes a nice cross bike in an ok price bracket, the c'dales are great but they are well over 1k if my memory serves

edit: gah the specialized for <1k was a ss, for a geared one its 1400

Also don't go off curbs on a true road bike, you kinda can but...

giant tcx2: eww shimano sora i hate hate hate it, tiagra is fine but i don't like sora, tiagra has the same basic design as the nice stuff, but only comes in a 9spd and isn't as nice but what do u want for 1k

look at the novara element, for a tad bit more you get tiagra and disc brakes yay (you can't race in sanctioned races cause they are stupid (not the races the rules))

If you saw the abuse my cross bike takes in it's stride at every race, you'd have no qualms bunny hopping off a curb.

I wouldn't recommend it on a raod bike though.

Question about the Novara though. Even if I did get it, how would their service compare to an LBS's? The reason I'm not considering the Scattante X-560 (besides the name) is because I know for a fact that they don't care as much as an LBS. I bought my current MTB from Perf, so I have personal experience. Otherwise, the x-560 comes with full 105 for under 1000.

Would REI fit you, and tune the bike, like an LBS would?

A lot depends on the rider. Actually that's the most important thing, by far. I've seen video of a pro bike racer hop a curb onto a traffic island and fly off the other side on a breakaway attempt to keep another guy from getting on his wheel. Smooth like buttah. His bunny hop was dead level and just inches higher than the curb and his landing was perfectly smooth all at breakaway sprint speed. I've also seen guys stomp their bikes into the ground on the landing like they were coming off an eight foot drop.

Any decent road bike can take curbs if you're smooth and reasonably considerate of the bike. Potholes can catch you by surprise and those will pinch-flat tires. That's the big difference - the tires. Cross bikes take fatter tires and usually have tougher wheels and those are the weak parts of the bike. Pretty much any bike the wheels will be the first thing damaged.

At your weight you aren't going to hurt the frame unless a car is involved. Seriously, frame strength is off the table here - these things just don't break that easily. The fat cross tires will give you more cushion and protection and cornering for daily beatings.

So get the cross bike for versatility and fun, you won't have to worry about flats as much.

yeah, like he said. tyres and wheels.

my commuter is a ss 'cross bike (with a carbon fork). before i finished building it, i used my geared 'cross bike (with a carbon fork). and sometimes i even ride my Bianchi road bike in town (with a carbon fork).

i'm over 200 lbs (and not exactly graceful). some of my commute takes me over brick streets, and even cobbles if i'm feeling brave.

an example:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b353/jhota42/commutestreet.jpg

and i've not done anything bad to a frame or fork yet. still have six true wheels, too. it's all in the wheels and tyres (and the rider).

i'd suggest a 'cross bike for a town bike for other reasons than durability; more upright riding position comes to mind. higher BB, too.

I'm at about 180lbs and I ride both of my cross bikes on singletrack a lot. I take logovers, small drops, etc. I've got an '06 Jake the Snake, the last year with a steel fork, and an IRO Rob Roy that I've got setup as a single speed with a carbon fork.

CX bikes can handle a lot of abuse.

Well, i have a Giant TCR2 (road) and TCX (cyclocross). The tubes on the TCX have a larger diameter and the welds are really beefy. The thickness of the rear dropouts also seem to be notably thicker.

Also, I don't really like the "classic" look of thin diameter steel, I prefer to have something a bit more modern.

That's a pity because there's a lot of older steel frame MTBs out there. They can easily take the abuse you're talking about. Price wise you should be able to pick one up for under $200. I've bought several at $125 - $150. Whatever you go for good luck.

I dont know about urban abuse, but I tip the scales between 240 and 250 and have been riding Rocky Mountain singletrack and racing my cx bike with no problems.

I think cross bikes are great for urban riding some of the trails in my city just aren't really suited for a road bike plus the gearing is about all I need for city riding. I have ridden road bikes in the city and they work fine just a little rougher of a ride. I have taken my cf road bike off curbs and even in some mud trying to get around a marathon it will do it but barely at best. The wider tires really rock in some urban situations.

You should also add the Raleigh RX1.0 to your list to consider.
http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/road/rx-10/

You should also add the Raleigh RX1.0 to your list to consider.
http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/road/rx-10/

How much do these run? I remember the '08 advertised at $1,100, which was a nice deal. Hope it didn't go up a whole lot (though it probably did).

Hate to hijack the thread, but this is on-topic: I'm curious how the '09 Raleigh RX compares to the Kona Jake. I'm sure fit would be the best determining factor, but neither is stocked anywhere near me, and the Raleigh and Kona dealers are two different shops.

The Raleigh seems to have better components in proportion to the higher price. The Kona has a triple crank, which is neither a positive nor a negative for me. But Kona also has a reputation for building great cyclocross bikes. I hear good things about the Raleigh RX, but no direct comparison. Is the Raleigh's overall package generally as good/better quality than the Kona?

Yeah, I'd like to know how much the RX is, too. "$$$$" doesn't say much, does it?

Any more suggestions for 'cross bikes under $1000?
Currently: Giant TCX 2, Raleigh RX 1.0, Kona Jake

In my younger years, I used to bunny hop my road bike all of the time, not to damage the wheels but to save them from damage.

Rail ways crossings, manhole covers, and curbs.....much better to bunny hop instead of hitting them with a rolling force.

Actually, I'm not sure if its called a bunny hop when you use toe clips to pull the bike into the air?

Yeah, I'd like to know how much the RX is, too. "$$$$" doesn't say much, does it?

Any more suggestions for 'cross bikes under $1000?
Currently: Giant TCX 2, Raleigh RX 1.0, Kona Jake

$$$$ = $700 - $1,100.... so probably $1100 like last year.

REI is much more like an LBS than an online retailer. My local REI has a full-service bike shop in it. Be aware, they switch over and do a lot of ski stuff (at least here in MN) during the winter, so sometimes there can be a wait for service after the first snow when everyone is getting their skis tuned up.
When I bought my Novara bike at REI, I had problems breaking spokes on my rear wheel (I weighed about 215 at the time). They volunteered to help solve the problem and let me buy a new stronger wheel for just parts and they built the wheel for me for free. The service was actually much better than at the LBS that I had bought my previous bike at, where they couldn't figure out the problem I was having and insisted that it was entirely my fault, my problem).

I've been built like you my whole life, skinny and 105 lbs., and haven't been able to break so much as a spoke in 40 years of urban style riding with curb jumps and later on, XC mountain biking. You and I can get away with almost anything on any bike at our weight, but bear in mind that unless you're congenitally small like me, you won't be at that size much longer and you may end up outgrowing the bike you spend lots of money to buy now. I'm looking now for a light cyclocross bike myself, maybe starting with a stock frame and spending some $ on lighter wheels.

FWIW I've had good experiences buying bikes and parts at REI, the bike wrenchers have always seemed competent. Good luck!

In my younger years, I used to bunny hop my road bike all of the time, not to damage the wheels but to save them from damage.

Rail ways crossings, manhole covers, and curbs.....much better to bunny hop instead of hitting them with a rolling force.

Actually, I'm not sure if its called a bunny hop when you use toe clips to pull the bike into the air?

I'm pretty sure it's still a bunny hop. Don't know any other name for it. And right on about hopping stuff rather than taking a hit. It's all in how you land it. I've weighed as much as 235 and never hurt a road bike on curbs or tracks or hopping stuff.

Bikes are amazingly strong things and you usually have to get pretty stupid to hurt one badly.

Ok, so is a 'cross bike worth the extra money? If not, there are entry level road bikes that are more affordable, and I may want to look into that. Or maybe I should get a cyclocross for the versatility? I'm confused.

Also, thanks for the info on REI.

Most contemporary road bikes don't have clearance for anything bigger than 25mm tires, much less fenders. So from my perspective, they are non-starters as city bikes. But a lot of people happily use a road bike with skinny tires as their commuter/city bike, and accept the limitations.

Most "hybrid" bikes on the market are a little clunky, which is why so many people are choosing cyclocross bikes for city riding.

Ok, so is a 'cross bike worth the extra money? If not, there are entry level road bikes that are more affordable, and I may want to look into that. Or maybe I should get a cyclocross for the versatility? I'm confused.

Also, thanks for the info on REI.

You can get an entry level cross bike, too. For me it's the versatility of the cross bike. I’m probably 80% commuter (fenders, racks, panniers), 10% race (usually can hang) and 10% off-road (usually can hang with MTB). I also wanted dropped bars and the choice of small or fat tires.

However, an entry level cross bike (with nothing lower than Sora) starts at a higher price than an entry level road bike (with nothing lower than Sora).

Unless you are going to do road racing, I'd not recommend the usual "road bike." Too many of them are designed as wannabe crit racers which means stupidly skinny tires (and no room for wider ones), twitchy geometry and no bungs for racks or fenders. If you can find a good general purpose road bike, useful for commuting, or centuries or unladen touring, get it. I don't see those for sale much anymore. Lots of interesting used bikes out there if you really do enjoy working on this stuff. Road bikes from the late 80s early 90s usually have room for tires up to 30 -32 and the drivetrains are modern enough to be upgraded to anything current. Except for 1988 DuraAce any shimano 8s hub can take a 9 or 10s cluster. Any derailleur that says SIS can shift it, etc. Some nice steel too, if you can get to it before some guy doing a fixie conversion mangles it.

The cross bike is a good off the shelf option. I haven't shopped this stuff in forever. But I didn't think there was that big a price diff. If you ever do want to race cross you really should get the bike, but they are indeed great commuter and utility and play bikes.

I also like the general-purpose usability of a cyclocross bike. Many road frames are very efficient, but that stiffness can really beat up a lightweight rider. That's why I like the freedom you have to run wider tires on a CX bike.

Unless you are going to do road racing, I'd not recommend the usual "road bike." Too many of them are designed as wannabe crit racers which means stupidly skinny tires (and no room for wider ones), twitchy geometry and no bungs for racks or fenders. If you can find a good general purpose road bike, useful for commuting, or centuries or unladen touring, get it. I don't see those for sale much anymore.Hear, hear.

Ok, thanks for all the help! I guess I'll look around for cross bikes.

What about a commuter bike, such as the K2 Merge? It's $800 at Performance.

What about a commuter bike, such as the K2 Merge? It's $800 at Performance.


Butted cross frame(from Here (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=25977&item=30-1760&slitrk=search&slisearch=true))

sounds like its just a cross bike with road tires, especially with wide tire clearance and canti brakes.

So is it a good deal? And will the alu fork give a harsh ride?

If I get it, I'll probably upgrade the FD to Tiagra.

So is it a good deal? And will the alu fork give a harsh ride?

If I get it, I'll probably upgrade the FD to Tiagra. If you're going to spend $800 on a bike online and then upgrade the components, you might as well get one of the bikesdirect bikes.

The Motobecane Fantom is Tiagra/105, and the Windsor Cyclo is 105/Ultegra. Both $800.

They come with cross tires, but you can just throw on road tires and call it a day.

Actually, I have a Performance Bike near my house, and I saw it in-store.

I'd be more worried about the Sora STI shifters than the Sora FD. I think the Jake would be worth the extra $100, but I'm a bit biased in favor of Jakes. If you can find an '08 Jake anywhere, it's got a better crankset (but worse brakes) than the '09.

Aren't STI units really expensive? I'll just upgrade them later, as I go. Besides, I heard the Sora FD is pretty crappy.

Aren't STI units really expensive? I'll just upgrade them later, as I go. Besides, I heard the Sora FD is pretty crappy. Yeah, upgrading your STI brifters is fairly pricey. If you are moving up from sora 9sp though and want to stay 9sp sometimes you can find older ultegra 9sp and dura-ace 9sp for a steal on ebay. The Sora FD works fine generally, luckily front mechs are fairly cheap if you want to upgrade.

I believe what Andy was getting at was the nature of the sora shifters: Tiagra->Dura Ace have you shifting to a smaller ring via a fingertip tap under the brake lever; Sora uses a thumb lever for that. Both of them shift to bigger rings by moving the entire brake lever segment inward.

The downside of the sora thumb lever is that it's harder to shift from the drops, and it may make resting your hands on the hoods uncomfortable depending on your hand size. Also, moving from a sora-equipped bike to any other shimano-equipped road group is disconcerting sometimes. I've got Sora on my cross bike, and the thumb levers are mildly annoying, but I'll just keep them because otherwise it works fine. I'll only upgrade if a really cheap ultegra/DA 9 set floats under my nose.

I believe what Andy was getting at was the nature of the sora shifters: Tiagra->Dura Ace have you shifting to a smaller ring via a fingertip tap under the brake lever; Sora uses a thumb lever for that. Both of them shift to bigger rings by moving the entire brake lever segment inward.

Yeah, that's what I was saying. After market price of even the Tiagra shifters is nearly a quarter of the entire price of the bike.

if you have a performance bike near you, see if they have or can get you a fuji cross comp ($800ish, 105/ultegra) or a cross pro ($1300ish, ultegra/dura-ace).

eh?

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/cyclo.htm

If you're going to spend $800 on a bike online and then upgrade the components, you might as well get one of the bikesdirect bikes.

The Motobecane Fantom is Tiagra/105, and the Windsor Cyclo is 105/Ultegra. Both $800.

They come with cross tires, but you can just throw on road tires and call it a day.

Dude, if this is the same geometry as the Fantom (Fuji), I got a case of beer for you if I can test ride your 56cm Fantom some time this week. :)

I clicked on the geometry link, and it sends you to the Motobecane Fantom Cross page. Is Bikes Direct just slapping different names on the same frame now? I worry about buying online, but 105/Ultegra for $800 is too good to pass up.

Specialized Tricross Sport (triple) here. It's definitely fine for curb hopping - I'm pretty good about not ramming into curbs (lifting up like you mention). I intend to take it mountain biking in a few weeks :) But definitely a much better choice than a road bike if you want to use it mostly for just getting around the place.

Steve

Dude, if this is the same geometry as the Fantom (Fuji), I got a case of beer for you if I can test ride your 56cm Fantom some time this week. :)

I clicked on the geometry link, and it sends you to the Motobecane Fantom Cross page. Is Bikes Direct just slapping different names on the same frame now? I worry about buying online, but 105/Ultegra for $800 is too good to pass up.Looking at the pictures, it uses the same interesting downtube shape, same head tube shape, and the seat tube / HT angles look to be the same, same shaped chainstay as the fantom I have. Maybe BD is being lazy, as you'll notice the titlebar of the page says "Motobecane Cyclo" and not "Windsor Cyclo." But I'm fairly sure it's the exact same frame. Except with upgraded gruppo, a CX crankset, better BB, carbon fork.

Considered the Surly CrossCheck complete? I've ridden my buddies a few times and like it plus it has alot a versitility. Bianchi...I can never remember their models aside from the Volpe and the Jamis Coda I believe, might be worth looking into.

I definitely don't want to buy a bike online, but I also saw a Redline Conquest Pro for 1K at Performance Bike, so maybe they might have the regular Conquest for less. I'll have to pay attention for the Fuji Cross next time I go.

Incidentally, you may want to ask in the Commuters forum - lots of advice about curb-hopping pannier-carrying bikes there.

Steve

A late thought: if you're near my size you may be near the smallest frame sizes in some of these bikes, which can be hard to find in stock at bike stores- they may have to order one for you. I'm 5'3" tall and typically run about 47cm on a road frame, depending on its geometry, and 15" on most MTBs.

They're not in stock yet, but I'm looking at the 2009 Marin Point Rayes. It has discs, a carbon fork, and eyelets for racks; list looks to be about $1100. It's more toward the MTB end of the cross bike spectrum, which is kind of what I'm looking for. REI will have them early next year.