Mountain Biking - Trail riding w/ Helmet, eh?

Figure I would post this here as it is more specific to this style of riding.

I wear a BMX style helmet http://brandscycle.com/merchant/278/images/large/DirtFB.jpg when riding trails and most of the time when I do pass other riders, they are wearing this style : http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/L10854414.jpg

Are one of these helmets going to offer more protection then the other if I bail into the river or whack my grape on a tree limb? I'm just curious, I have fallen several times with my BMX style helmets and kept my egg crack free, but then again I usually am riding a BMX bike to go along with it. I'm having a blast riding the trails down the road from my house and expect to be doing a lot more mountain biking in the near future, so do I need to buy a new style of lid or does it all work the same?

Your BMX helmet provides more impact protection at the expense of comfort. A mountain bike helmet will have much better ventilation and also be lighter, but will still offer pretty good protection.

Your skate lid will work fine.

Should give you more neck protection.

Every helmet should have a sticker/stickers that say it has fulfilled such and such government safety mandates. Basically they all "work". But they are specialized toward certain styles of riding. Yours will work fine, but since you said you've crashed with it a couple times, check it very carefully for cracks. I just replaced mine because the brow had a nice crack from where I slammed my head into the ground.

I sport a BMX helmet as well.
Makes me feel safer.
I like the feel of it better,
its just hot... really hot in the summer.
--

Your BMX helmet provides more impact protection at the expense of comfort. A mountain bike helmet will have much better ventilation and also be lighter, but will still offer pretty good protection.

Incorrect.

BMX/Skate helmets are made to withstand multiple low impact hits, while a dedicated bike helmet is a one-time use, high impact lid.

BMX/Skate helmets are made to withstand multiple low impact hits, while a dedicated bike helmet is a one-time use, high impact lid.

Incorrect.

http://www.pro-tec.net/bike/main.html and click "technology."

Incorrect.

BMX/Skate helmets are made to withstand multiple low impact hits, while a dedicated bike helmet is a one-time use, high impact lid.

Well I guess he should only wear his skate helmet when he plans on having low-impact hits. :rolleyes:

I'm sticking with what I said in my first post.

Incorrect.

http://www.pro-tec.net/bike/main.html and click "technology."

Yes, I love technology, always and forever.

I have a bell helmet that cost me like $30, and is more circular shaped, then I see helmets like $100 and up, is it really all for more ventilation? It's just hard for me to cough up 100 or more for ventilation, does it really make more of a difference?

Incorrect.

http://www.pro-tec.net/bike/main.html and click "technology."

What? As far I'm concerned, that's just biased advertising, and I don't even see much relevance.

All it says the EPS helmets lose effectiveness after one hit, while the advertised helmets can take multiple hits. No mention of impact energy anywhere.


I will eat my own defecation if I'm wrong. That said, I am preparing the crap now.

I have a bell helmet that cost me like $30, and is more circular shaped, then I see helmets like $100 and up, is it really all for more ventilation? It's just hard for me to cough up 100 or more for ventilation, does it really make more of a difference?


your $30 helmet is plenty safe, with the pricey helmets you pay for a couple things:
-more vents
-lighter
-size specific (s/m/l vs universal)
-lower profile (especially in the road ones, you pay for the technoligy to make so little still protect you, basically the more expensive ones look cooler)
-diff adjustment mech (giro roc-loc at like $80+


I really like having a nice helmet, but its not a big deal, i dont' rag on anyone who doesn't fork over that kinda cash on a helmet, as long as you have a current helmet, i will lol at you if you ride some old pos (old school white bell dome comes to mind)

If you like what you have stick with it. I always thought that once you had a mtb helmet, if you hit something hard enough for it to actually matter, the helmet would basically crack in half.. that is instead of your skull. Maybe I am wrong though.

That point of a helmet is really to slow down your brain inside your head. The foam material crushes, and although it happens quickly, it helps decelerate you brain slower than just hitting something with your skull.

Skate helmets mainly help your head skid along the ground (preventing torsion to your neck, again from deceleration). MTB/road helmets also do this to a lesser degree.

If you really want to discuss comparative helmet safety, you should start by using terms like ASTM and CPSC, not "skate" and "bike." Many helmets meet multiple standards and it's got nothing to do with their "style."

Profail one cup.

I believe that any helmet sold in the US must be certified so in that respect you're covered. Spend what you want on a helmet so long as it's comfortable for you. As far as multiple impacts, I ride motorcycles and threw away a helmet that cost me nearly $700 because it fell off the top of a rack in the garage and landed squarely on the crown. If you bump it, scratch it up, or scrape on something it's fine. If you have a hard impact in it get rid of it, even if you can't see damage. I believe that Giro and SixSixOne have crash replacement policies to encourage you to discard the helmet.

Mike

Should give you more neck protection.
please explain.

thanks.

If you really want to discuss comparative helmet safety, you should start by using terms like ASTM and CPSC, not "skate" and "bike"


No. We're talking about styles of helmets, not certifications.

Of course it has nothing to do with the style. Skate helmets ARE designed for multiple impacts. Bike helmets are not. It all has to do with what group the helmet is aimed at.

please explain.

thanks.

They cover the back of your head. I don't believe they cover your neck though.

Yes, my Ace Spade "skate" helmet covers the back of my head.
So, I feel safer in it.
I still dont see what your trying to prove profail, other than my helmet can take more hits than yours, The "skate" style helmets can take just as much force as the "bike" styles.


Anyone have 2 helmets to test??
take 100 pounds and drop it on each helmet, see which ones better...

Anyone have 2 helments to test??
take 100 pounds and drop it on each helment, see which ones better...

That's hardly a conclusive test. I won't even explain why because it's so obvious.

The point is that a BMX helmet is designed for multiple low-energy impacts, and dedicated bike helmets are meant to withstand a single, high-energy impact. You'd know that if your read the thread.

That's hardly a conclusive test. I won't even explain why because it's so obvious.

The point is that a BMX helmet is designed for multiple low-energy impacts, and dedicated bike helmets are meant to withstand a single, high-energy impact. You'd know that if your read the thread.

Well job wit da engrish.

bmx/skate help with neck injury b/c they are rounded and flat on the back not pointed like road helmets, b/c of this bmx/skate helmets allow your head to lie flat, that is if you are on your back they don't cause your head to roll to one side, the point on road helmets causes your head to roll to one side exaserbateing neck injuries. Also some mtn helmets now have more rounded backs, the giro hex comes to mind

as for type of impact idk but skate helmets do have a foam liner inside a plastic shell so they should be fine for mtn biking (foam just like mtn helmets)

the only thing i would say against a skate helmet is that they don't have the adjustable fit like a modern road/mtn helmet. So its likely they it doesn't fit you as tightly as a mtn/road helmet, there fore in a sliding fall it might allow the helmet to shift on your head, but skate helmets cover so much of your head prolly doesn't matter

bmx/skate help with neck injury b/c they are rounded and flat on the back not pointed like road helmets, b/c of this bmx/skate helmets allow your head to lie flat, that is if you are on your back they don't cause your head to roll to one side, the point on road helmets causes your head to roll to one side exaserbateing[sic] neck injuries.

Please provide a link to a study/specification(SNELL, ANSI, etc.) that backs up your wildly inaccurate claim.

Thank you!

Why?

(that's a gentle way of pointing out that you do not know what the hell you are trying to post about, let alone know enough to post "authoritatively" as you have vainly attempted to do)

Hint: Educate yourself on the issue, then post. You might look like less of an idiot then. Maybe.

Missed you Pete.

Please provide a link to a study/specification(SNELL, ANSI, etc.) that backs up your wildly inaccurate claim.

Thank you!

I'll take care if this one.

Site (http://www.nxgn-ltd.com/ezweblite/PUBLIC/STYLES/phillips_helmets/rotationalinjury.asp)
^^^Wikipedia article that explains this.^^^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bike_helmet#Rotational_injury)

The Wikipedia article has additional citations. You talk big crap Pete, but you still suck nutz. Your new name should be Stunning****.

Perhaps you should have a modicum of knowledge about what you're talking about before you make yourself look like a fool.

Well job wit da engrish.

Ad hominem.

I'd point out that it's a typo, but you're indulging in your utter win so I'll leave you alone.

I'll take care if this one.

Site (http://www.nxgn-ltd.com/ezweblite/PUBLIC/STYLES/phillips_helmets/rotationalinjury.asp)
^^^Wikipedia article that explains this.^^^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bike_helmet#Rotational_injury)

The Wikipedia article has additional citations. You talk big crap Pete, but you still suck nutz. Your new name should be Stunning****.

Perhaps you should have a modicum of knowledge about what you're talking about before you make yourself look like a fool.

Your link to wikipedia, while funny in and of itself, also does not answer the question that I posed. Rather, it just provides further proof that you do not know what you are typing about.

The fellow that you are weakly trying to defend claimed 'The point is that a BMX helmet is designed for multiple low-energy impacts, and dedicated bike helmets are meant to withstand a single, high-energy impact."

I asked him to explain the rational for his claim quoted above.

You have been unable to explain his claim.

Once again, you need to educate yourself lest you to continue to post in such an ignorant manner.

Also, if you're going to try and defend someone by posting wiki-links, make sure that they answer the question at hand. The link that you posted does not "prove" that bmx/skate helmets "help" with neck injury vs. "road" helmets.

Good luck! You really need it!

Your link to wikipedia, while funny in and of itself, also does not answer the question that I posed. Rather, it just provides further proof that you do not know what you are typing about.

The fellow that you are weakly trying to defend claimed 'The point is that a BMX helmet is designed for multiple low-energy impacts, and dedicated bike helmets are meant to withstand a single, high-energy impact."

I asked him to explain the rational for his claim quoted above.

You have been unable to explain his claim.

Once again, you need to educate yourself lest you to continue to post in such an ignorant manner.

Also, if you're going to try and defend someone by posting wiki-links, make sure that they answer the question at hand. The link that you posted does not "prove" that bmx/skate helmets "help" with neck injury vs. "road" helmets.

Good luck! You really need it!

Eh, I'm giving the guy benefit of the doubt in that he meant that skate helmets don't cause neck injury as extensively as bike helmets. Wikipedia is obviously not an end-all source for information, due to the the fact that it's a wiki. I linked to the wiki article as it provided further links and a condensation of information on torsional effects of skate versus bike helmets. Sirtigersalot is wrong in HOW the skate helmet prevents neck injury, but is right in his conclusion. My links have definitely provided proof that helmet shapes do indeed effect torsional rotation.

There are a few specific citations in the link, but one that implies the reduced rotational force when wearing a skate helmet is as follows:

"Helmets may increase the torsional forces by increasing the distance from the centre of the spine to the outside of the helmet, compared to the distance to the scalp without a helmet". This is the paraphrase provided by the wiki entry, but the original text is on the Department of Transportation's page. Now, I'm assuming you're intelligent enough to connect the dots here, but a skate helmet fits closer to the head than a traditional bike helmet.

IIIIIIIGGGGGGGNNNNNNOOOOOOOORRRRRRRAAAAAAAMMMMMMMUUUUUUUSSSSS

The fellow that you are weakly trying to defend claimed 'The point is that a BMX helmet is designed for multiple low-energy impacts, and dedicated bike helmets are meant to withstand a single, high-energy impact."

Good luck! You really need it![/QUOTE]

I claimed the stuff about neck injuries not hight vs low impact, i just said that the skate helmets also have the foam lining so should be good in mtn bike crashes. Also i talked about neck injury do to the point in the back, i didn't say it would cause neck injury just exaserbate the problem if you did hurt hour spine, and that info was from shop (could still be wrong) but i think i've heard it elsewhere too. That doesn't really effect mtn biking it was more a say you screw up that 540 in the half pipe and hurt your back/neck, sounds like a bad idea to twist your neck to one side doesn't it

regardless If you have a some factual information to support your claims or any studies or anything your welcome to prove me wrong.

I don't want to get too envolved in this argument but can I just point out that the large sticky out bit on the back of my helmet is there partly as a crumple type zone.

If I take a bad hit to the back of the head that cracks and flattens (well thats the idea AFAIK, never tried it in practice) so it probably does better with neck injuries than a skate helmet would. I dunno if this is a desgin feature in any other helmet, but I know on mine the back is larger but softer, probably specifically to prevent neck injuries.

^ interesting point, i do not know anything about that but it seems to me that would only work in crashes with a hard hit directly to the back of the head, if you for example hit the side of your head then rolled onto your back ot hit somthin on your neck it would still put your head in an poor position. (i'm just using logic here, and have no facts to back it up or w/e) i always assumed that point was just for looks/ bs aero cause some mtn bike helmets don't have it.

but do to the nature of this thread i just wanna say that this is just me thinking not me saying "you are wrong here is the truth"

It obviously would have situtations where it wouldn't work and I'm not sure if it's the same for all helmets but it would stop your head snapping back as fast after a fall backwards (I'm not sure if you've ever done this but your head kinda gets left behind and then catches up as your body hits the ground). Also if you hit the back of your neck rather than your head it's most likely on a root or rock and the point at the back would probably provide more support.

Hits on the side are admitadly possibly more likely to cause neck injuries but most mountain bikers I see around have backpacks on, so if you do roll onto your back you won't be lying flat anyway, and a point at the back may give your head slightly more support, but in all fairness probably isn't must difference between the 2. Hopefully the first guy to find you if that ever happens is competent at first aid and can put you in a suitable position with minimal movement... otherwise your screwed no matter which helmet you had from the point of view of having spinal injuries.

Most mountain bike crashes I've experinced I've generally managed to land on my side and ended up pretty much crumpled up in the recovery position (mainly by pure luck but meh), and seeing as all helmets have to pass a test on strength and that envolved a simple smash to the side of the head any type of helmet would have done fine.

I figure I should prob contribute to the OP's questions and well. There isn't really much difference saftey wise, after a bad fall I'd replace my helmet no matter what it was (if it's juat a little knock then I'd keep it no matter what it was). The expensive bikes helmets main advantage really is just comfort and fit. They have more ventilation and are lighter which means use of smaller lighter materials = more expensive materials.

I think you can have a fall with the exact same results in mtn biking and in skate/bmx, however it comes down to probablilty, certain types of falls are more likely in skate/bmx and some are more likely in mtn biking. As Dheori said above most mtn bikers have on packs and falls to the side are more common ect,

another thing is in general i think of skating and bmx as shorter time period sports, not endurance sports, so ventelation and weight are smaller concernes than they might be in say xc mtn biking where a bmx helmet might be annoying on a 12hr race, not to mention there are so many types of mtn biking, you are likely to have diff falls xc vs fr vs dj ect

I am just simply saying a "skate/bmx" style helmets are GENERALLY more durable compared to their "bike" style brothers. Under the same crashes and tests I would have to say that the "skater/bmx" style helmet would outlast the bike style, while giving the same amount of protection

i have no facts but i would agree with that statement (I forget what we are arguing about)

i was just checkin over my helmet and found 3 major cracks in it :( now i have to go buy a new one

It kind of shows what kind of maturity level we're dealing with here when you actually wish harm upon another person, joking or not.

I'm done with arguing, I'll just slip away saying that Cheeto is still wrong. Very, very wrong.

I was only commenting on how some folks don't need their brain slowed down.I don't wish harm upon anyone here....unless I'm there to take pics.

I profail hereby admit defeat to cheeto.

wow you really can abuse the quote tool huh lol

i'm sry couldn't resist i dont' even know who's side i'm on

Waaaaiiit, isn't there some rule against this?

Most likely.

Well normally I'd say don't join my side because I'm usually hated, but on this case, I say come on over to my side.
There's cokes, pork chops, and burgers inside.

Thread reopened..

How about them Phillies?

Well, after reading through this... mess. I have used both helmets, but I can say, the skate style, I guess you call it, seems stronger. Now, I don't know about how they compare protectively.

Need accelerometers to test this.

Cheeto got banned? That's hysterical! What did I miss??

I really like having a nice helmet, but its not a big deal, i dont' rag on anyone who doesn't fork over that kinda cash on a helmet, as long as you have a current helmet, i will lol at you if you ride some old pos (old school white bell dome comes to mind)

lol yeah I don't look as cool with my bell dome, eventually I will get a nicer one lol

I believe that any helmet sold in the US must be certified so in that respect you're covered. Spend what you want on a helmet so long as it's comfortable for you. As far as multiple impacts, I ride motorcycles and threw away a helmet that cost me nearly $700 because it fell off the top of a rack in the garage and landed squarely on the crown. If you bump it, scratch it up, or scrape on something it's fine. If you have a hard impact in it get rid of it, even if you can't see damage. I believe that Giro and SixSixOne have crash replacement policies to encourage you to discard the helmet.

Mike

I am also into racing sport bikes, have 2 GSXR's a 600 and a 1000 and know very well that a motorcycle helmet needs to be tossed if its dropped. I am not very educated when it comes to bicycle safety, hence my reasoning for asking here on the forum.

I just removed the pads for a wash this morning and inspected the foam for cracks and did find a few small ones, so its time for a new lid anyways. I sweat in this helmet, maybe its time to purchase a MTB specific helmet. Any suggestions? I don't think I need to spend 100 bucks, but then again it is my melon and I should probably invest in something decent.

Thanks for all the reply's, I'm assuming it got ugly by the poster that mentioned this thread was re-opened?

if your looking for a nice mtn helmet i really like the giro hex, the xen is also really nice, fox also makes some nice ones, the hex i think is like 85 bucks, if you don't wanna pay that i'd just get a $40 sport helmet thats universal, I ride a pneumo (and just ordered a new one to replace my cracked one) which is a road helmet, I prolly shouldn't do that and i think i may get a hex also just so when i break in mtn biking it wasn't my expensive road helmet anyway w/e

oh wow the thread got cleaned up lol didn't even catch that

We could go on and on about this helmet or that helmet and what is best and most comfortable, blah blah. I have had a bunch of helmets and they all fit differently.

The one(s) that fit/feel the best to me are the one(s) I use.

If you like what you have stick with it. I always thought that once you had a mtb helmet, if you hit something hard enough for it to actually matter, the helmet would basically crack in half.. that is instead of your skull. Maybe I am wrong though.

I wear my Giro that I wear on my roadie as well as commuter/offroad helmet. And have replaced the helmet twice due to tree and a hard hit on the pavement. Minor concussion with the road, but the head was safe!!!!