Group Buy - Fixed Gear Frame Group Buy

I have put together a fixed gear frame group buy.



Please see here (http://www.bdopcycling.com/GroupBuys.asp#FGSS) for details.

Wow, that pink one is going to sell out fast.
Those Novatec tubulars look nice too. Anticipating a clincher version?

Wow, that pink one is going to sell out fast.
Those Novatec tubulars look nice too. Anticipating a clincher version?

Novatec was going to offer a carbon clincher for 2007 but it never happened. I'm not sure why. It's actually pretty tough to make one due to the braking surface/clincher/heat dissipation issues. It was also going to be a low profile wheel like the Campagnolo Hyperon Ultra as opposed to a high profile wheel like the one on my site.

umm not to rain on the parade.
but for carbon tubular wheels. the flit bf.net deal is way better. lighter, hand built, warranty, crash replacement.

umm not to rain on the parade.
but for carbon tubular wheels. the flit bf.net deal is way better. lighter, hand built, warranty, crash replacement.

This thread is actually about a FG frame.

The wheels that were mentioned are also hand built and warrantied. I can't comment any further without looking at the wheels you are talking about.

Link, please.

I take it then, that there is little interest for fixed gear frames on this forum?

I take it then, that there is little interest for fixed gear frames on this forum?

Bob - the masses are screaming for carbon wheels.

Did you try the FG/SS forum?

Also back to the point of trademarks form the other thread, Schwinn sells a FG/SS bike called the Madison and again that Peleton name.....

So why are people bashing BD and not this company?

So why are people bashing BD and not this company?

You've been around here a long time son - you seriously don't know the answer to that question?

You've been around here a long time son - you seriously don't know the answer to that question?

I get the shill thing...but I am talking about the stolen (which aren't) names argument. :thumb:

And err back to the topic at hand...880g for a steel frame? I am a bit skeptical.

Did you try the FG/SS forum?

Also back to the point of trademarks form the other thread, Schwinn sells a FG/SS bike called the Madison and again that Peleton name.....

So why are people bashing BD and not this company?

Sounds like you collecting torches and rounding up the neighbours!:D

Yes, I tried FG/SS. There is some interest there. I used to ride fixed at about this time as a road racer so I thought others may be thinking the same thing. Hence the post here.

To be clear, I source these frames from the manufacturer. I have NO input into their choice of names. Frankly, it's not my primary concern.

I addressed this in an earlier post. Could you even trademark these names? It would be like trying to trademark the words 'Group' or 'Road Race'.

I am not trying to pass these frames off as anything other than what they are. They are a Taiwan made frame, coming from a Taiwan company whose brand is PELOTON. I have known this company for several years under this name and I know the owner well. This is part of the reason why I approached this company in the first place.

I would be curious to know if there were a possible trademark issue here. Anyone out there have some experience in this area?

I get the shill thing...but I am talking about the stolen (which aren't) names argument. :thumb:

I'm no shill. BDop Cycling Co. is my company and Peloton is one of my suppliers.


And err back to the topic at hand...880g for a steel frame? I am a bit skeptical.

Yes, this was a typo on my part. 1880g. It has since been corrected.

I'm no shill. BDop Cycling Co. is my company and Peloton is one of my suppliers.

Yes, this was a typo on my part. 1880g. It has since been corrected.

Good work on fixing that...no chance it was 880g so something was amiss. No please don't think I am calling you a shill or saying you are using the same sales techniques as BD. The company you are sourcing them from is IMO though...that was my real point.

I have a fixed gear from last years IRO group buy or I would consider it.

The company you are sourcing them from is IMO though...that was my real point.


This is very provincial! There are British companies producing "Madison" frames, and there is a Japanese frame builder called "Peloton". Why assume they were ripping off Schwinn product names? In the case of BD, there is a strong, deliberate attempt to link the two. I don't see that here. But this is not supposed to be another interminable BD thread, so let's stop here :). How many bikes are called Ventoux?

Using the same model names shouldn't be a problem...now if Bdop were to have his frames labeled SCHWINN, then THAT would be a problem.

What kind of steel?

Yeah, using the same model name is not big deal especially since the 'madison' is a very standard track racing event.

I also want more info on the tubing. The deal looks great, although i'm not sure about the sizing.

What kind of steel?

This frame uses 4130 CroMo tubes drawn in Taiwan. The frame is TIG welded.

The factory that makes these frames is well established and makes several brand name frames.

is this the same "peloton" as the NJS peloton? It looks like Taiwan TiG to me.

is this the same "peloton" as the NJS peloton? It looks like Taiwan TiG to me.

This frame is TIG welded in Taiwan using Taiwan drawn 4130, double butted tubing.

Updated. (http://www.bdopcycling.com/GroupBuys.asp#FGSS)

dude seriously you need to photoshop the backgroud off better.
the white tubes look awfully beefy with the grey backgroud...

If the frames were lugged I'd be all over this.. whats the point of a having a Tig welded steel frame? Gotta admit I like the looks of the pink paint though, too bad about the extra half centimeter on the 56 on the top tube. The group buy price is 320.00 each? If it were cheaper I'd go for it, once you slap shipping on its hardly a bargain for a 4130 frame.

if it were cheaper i'd go for it, once you slap shipping on its hardly a bargain for a 4130 frame.

+1

dude seriously you need to photoshop the backgroud off better.
the white tubes look awfully beefy with the grey backgroud...

I know. I just haven't had time. It's on the list.:D

Again with the two schwinn model names. I'm not trying to be an ass but that's just lame. And you should take the packing material off frames before you photograph them. Also even if I were looking for a frame like this I wouldn't buy one that had two ripped off names.

I addressed this in an earlier post. Could you even trademark these names?

If you don't know, find out before you start selling them. It's entirely possible that schwinn could sue over "madison" and yes it's legally possible to trademark that model name.

Again with the two schwinn model names. I'm not trying to be an ass but that's just lame. And you should take the packing material off frames before you photograph them. Also even if I were looking for a frame like this I wouldn't buy one that had two ripped off names.

but you do it so effortlessly.

but you do it so effortlessly.

It's like if some random Asian company tried to sell a car called a "celica 328i" It's just wrong IMO.

Bob, Selling that bike in the US could bring you trouble.


As per the United States Patent and Trademark Office:

Word Mark PELOTON
Goods and Services IC 012. US 019. G & S: Bicycles. FIRST USE: 19840210. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19840210
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 73480020
Filing Date May 11, 1984
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 18, 1984
Registration Number 1322052
Registration Date February 26, 1985
Owner (REGISTRANT) Schwinn Bicycle Company CORPORATION ILLINOIS 1856 N. Kostner Ave. Chicago ILLINOIS 60639

(LAST LISTED OWNER) SCHWIN ACQUISITION LLC LTD LIAB CO DELAWARE 4902 HAMMERSLEY ROAD MADISON WISCONSIN 53711
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20050715.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20050715
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


As someone who is not a lawyer but who has been on both sides of intellectual property issues, this could be a huge problem if you are offering these in the USA.

If the frames were lugged I'd be all over this.. whats the point of a having a Tig welded steel frame? Gotta admit I like the looks of the pink paint though, too bad about the extra half centimeter on the 56 on the top tube. The group buy price is 320.00 each? If it were cheaper I'd go for it, once you slap shipping on its hardly a bargain for a 4130 frame.

Have a look at materials prices and transportation costs around the world. (Remember that the materials for current products were payed for months ago). I'm sure you've noticed that prices have gone up across the board.

Aluminum, for example, has seen an increase to the point that you are going to see very few aluminum frames for 2010. Steel is in a very similar situation. Interestingly, carbon has fared the best of all with increases being the least dramatic.

Shipping should be in the $60-$80 range. That puts a Double Butted, TIG welded, 4130 frame, to your door for under $400. I'll admit it's not a screaming deal but, based on the research I've done, it's still a pretty fair price.

As someone who is not a lawyer but who has been on both sides of intellectual property issues, this could be a huge problem if you are offering these in the USA.

Especially the "madison" which is a current schwinn model.

Bob, Selling that bike in the US could bring you trouble.


As per the United States Patent and Trademark Office:

Word Mark PELOTON
Goods and Services IC 012. US 019. G & S: Bicycles. FIRST USE: 19840210. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19840210
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 73480020
Filing Date May 11, 1984
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 18, 1984
Registration Number 1322052
Registration Date February 26, 1985
Owner (REGISTRANT) Schwinn Bicycle Company CORPORATION ILLINOIS 1856 N. Kostner Ave. Chicago ILLINOIS 60639

(LAST LISTED OWNER) SCHWIN ACQUISITION LLC LTD LIAB CO DELAWARE 4902 HAMMERSLEY ROAD MADISON WISCONSIN 53711
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20050715.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20050715
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


As someone who is not a lawyer but who has been on both sides of intellectual property issues, this could be a huge problem if you are offering these in the USA.

Thanks for that.

As I have mentioned before, I am BUYING these frames not having them made. I have no control over names.

I will, however, discuss this with the company who actually branded these frames. My feeling is that nothing will happen in the short term (This group buy will use the current model names) but, from what I have seen, I think a name change may already be in the works.

As I have mentioned before, I am BUYING these frames not having them made. I have no control over names.


Yeah well guess who they're gonna go after for distributing them in the U.S.? I hope you have a good lawyer.

Thanks for that.

As I have mentioned before, I am BUYING these frames not having them made. I have no control over names.

I will, however, discuss this with the company who actually branded these frames. My feeling is that nothing will happen in the short term (This group buy will use the current model names) but, from what I have seen, I think a name change may already be in the works.

Not that easy, you are the importer and the buck stops with you.

It may not be worth the trouble (legal costs) to sell a handful of these in the US. I'm also not sure how litigious the bicycle industry is and a handful of frames may not be worth the legal costs for Schwinn.

Again with the two schwinn model names. I'm not trying to be an ass but that's just lame.

I think I've addressed this several times now.


And you should take the packing material off frames before you photograph them. Also even if I were looking for a frame like this I wouldn't buy one that had two ripped off names.

I am not the photographer. As with all the products on my website, the artwork is provided by the supplier. I simply don't posses the skill or the resources to do them myself. If I were to have a professional do it, that cost would be passed on to consumers. The shots you mention (with the packing material still on) were taken by the factory. Believe me, I am not impressed either.

To be honest, this deal was put together hastily and was based on timing. As I mentioned earlier I used to ride fixed in Nov and Dec and thought others might want to do the same. If I had begun putting this deal together months ago then all these 'details' would have been ironed out.

As it is, I feel BDop Cycling Co. is offering a basic FG/SS frame, in 3 colours, at a fair market price without pretty pictures and marketing hype. This frame is what it is.

Although I share your concerns (and am actually glad you pointed these potential problems out) I don't think anything more can be served by focusing on this point.

Frankly, I'd rather talk about the frame.

I appreciate what you're doing, I just think there are things that should be addressed before you proceed. And to be honest "pretty pictures and marketing hype" helps sell things. I just don't want to see you sell yourself short when there is so much potential.

I appreciate what you're doing, I just think there are things that should be addressed before you proceed. And to be honest "pretty pictures and marketing hype" helps sell things. I just don't want to see you sell yourself short when there is so much potential.

You sound like my grade 10 math teacher!:roflmao2:

Like I said, your comments have merit and are appreciated. Now I need to act on them. This will not change the current situation as these frames are already produced.

If Schwinn wants to pursue me, over a dozen frames sold on the internet, then that's just my bad luck. In future this will not be the case.

What makes this frame worth $100 more than the $200 Kilo TT bikeisland frames?

What makes this frame worth $100 more than the $200 Kilo TT bikeisland frames?

You mean the out of stock one?

Frame spec and pricing updated (http://www.bdopcycling.com/GroupBuys.asp#FGSS).

You mean the out of stock one?


yes

160 dollars more (bikeisland shipping is included in the cost) for... ???

The geometry seems fairly different. And the drop outs seem better. But the pain job is ugly, but maybe the decals come off.

And all the people complaining about the name need to get a life and ride their bike. The name issue is between Schwinn and Bob. I could care less

yes

160 dollars more (bikeisland shipping is included in the cost) for... ???

A frame that actually exists.

These frames are new and their pricing is based on what it costs to produce a frame now.

I am not going to comment on product offered elsewhere.

The real point is that I have frames in stock.

Updated. (http://www.bdopcycling.com/GroupBuys.asp#FGSS)

This includes a small price change and a new closing date.

No buy ever. Ugly frames.
Kilo tt frameset back on bikeisland = FAR better deal

No buy ever. Ugly frames.
Kilo tt frameset back on bikeisland = FAR better deal

Thanks for your input.

I hope you enjoy your Kilo TT frame.

Updated (http://www.bdopcycling.com/GroupBuys.asp#FGSS).

Ok. I managed to work the price with the vendor. I can now offer these frames for $280USD plus shipping.

I response to a few emails I will attempt to illustrate why this frame is more expensive than other frames currently available.

1. Double Butted tubing.
By this I mean that the three main tubes are double butted. Lesser quality frames will have all straight gauge tubing. A step up will include a double butted seat tube. These frames have 3 main tubes DB.

2. Cast drop outs and fork crown.
Investment casting produces higher quality lugs and drop outs as well as fork crowns. Less expensive frames will use stamped drop outs and crowns.

3. High quality Tig welds.
With this type of welding the tubes must be more accurately cut and mitered. With a lugged frame there is a much higher margin for error.

4. Frame alignment
The skill of those who welded these frames is quite high. The jigs are of good quality and checked often. This means that the frames will be straight. This means the chainline will be spot on.

5. Fork threaded to length
The forks on this frame are threaded to length which means that no expensive threading is needed. Simply cut to length and install.

This buy will close on 15 Nov regardless of how many frames are sold. Those who have already paid will pay the new price. The additional money sent will be applied to your shipping.

Are the decals removeable or under the clear coat?

Are the decals removeable or under the clear coat?

There are some frames available without decals. It would depend on size and colour.