Cyclocross - Scandium, Aluminum, Carbon, or a mix

So all of a sudden I feel the need to get a cross bike. Never ridden one but want to race one. Sure I have raced mountain and road bikes but now I need a new fix. Was thinking about just getting a frame now and slowly build it up for next year. I got many sets of extra wheels and an extra shimano ultegra 10spd groupset. So all I would really need is a frame and fork, brakes, and cross cranks.

The question is what frame material to get. I have a scott scale carbon for my mt bike and never had any problem with it but it seems to me that not many of you out there would go with a full carbon frame. I was thinking of getting on the group buy for pedal force if I do decide to go carbon.

Another frame I was looking at is the 09 major jake. I love the color and I know kona has some cross history under their belt. I am having trouble finding a 09 and would it be worth it for me to wait till they actually do come out.

If I do not get the 09 major jake would it really be that bad to get the 09 jake the snake. I know it is full Alu. It is about half the price and I can actually find it.

Last choice would be the Voodoo cycles Limba. Scandium frame with CF seatstays.

So what would be the best choices to get and what are advantages and disadvantages or each type of frame. There is no rush as I won't start building it up till probably the spring so I can wait for the 09 major jake but is it worth the wait for a scandium frame over Aluminum.

Thanks for the help

I'd personally go for a mixed material frame (well I would go for carbon if I could afford it, purely for those few extra grams shaved off) because all the mixed frames I've tried feel much better than pure alu or steel frames without having quite the sized pricetag that the pure carbon frames have.

For me it's just a balance between money and weight, and to me the cost is more important, may be different for you.

Jamis provides a mixed materials (Kinesium & Carbon) frame on the Supernova. Even the low cost Nova pro has carbon seat stays.

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/08_bikes/08supernova.html#

Michael

you know...full carbon cross frames have only just begun widespread production recently. and i'll tell you...they scare me! why? because these full carbon cross frames weight as little as under 1000 grams. now...sub 1000 gram carbon road frames are subject to failure at what seems like a greater rate than steel/aluminum/titanium road frames. so what the heck are going to happen to carbon cross frames?!?!?!

everyones trying to make lighter and lighter cross frames. they're as light as road frames now. which is all fine and good. but i thought the reason cross frames were heavier than road frames was because they were reinforced. makes sense...cross frames see much rougher terrain and see much more abuse than road frames. but now they're as light as road frames...does that mean they're weakening the frames? will they hold up to season after season of cross abuse? i know some non-weight weenie roadies don't even like super light road frames because of flex or whatnot. if superlight frames aren't stiff enough for roadies...how can they be good for cross?

if you're a supe light, super weak rider...then you might be totally fine with whatever. but otherwise...i think if i were you, i'd go aluminum/scandium. light, affordable, proven..

If you have the wallet for it, get a full carbon frame.

Trek doesn't offer a carbon 'cross bike, so I'm on the aluminium XO-1, and its not the weight that I notice, but the harshness. With carbon you can engineer tubes to behave differently depending on the application.

Never ridden one but want to race one. Cross season is still on. Go out and race, and worry about the new bike later.

Yeah see I am really worried about the carbon frames and the abuse it is going to take. I mean I have light carbon mt frame and it has never worried me or given me flex problems. It is a scott scale. The only reason I am thinking about carbon is the deal one could possibly get on the pedalforce group buy. In all honestly I would pull the trigger right now on the kona major jake if I could find one. Is scandium really that much better than alu? Oh and good call on the jamis now if I could only find one

If you have the wallet for it, get a full carbon frame.

Trek doesn't offer a carbon 'cross bike, so I'm on the aluminium XO-1, and its not the weight that I notice, but the harshness. With carbon you can engineer tubes to behave differently depending on the application.

You can do the same with aluminium to a certain degree. If you get a mixed material frame though they only bother changing the bits that make the most difference into alloy/carbon, meaning that section which would only make a minute change are left as aluminium, so overall you get nearly the same comfort but for less price.

I love my Jake the Snake, for the kind of terrain you'll be dealing with carbon is not going to make that much difference.

Switching to tubulars and running lower pressure would be better.

fwiw, the guys I see winning the A races are usually on alu or steel.

Van Dessel Hole Shot might be one to look at in addition to a Salsa Con Crosso. I am also intrigued by the Origin8 Foxtrot but havent found any reviews.

I need to get more intrigued with my cross check

Yeah see I am really worried about the carbon frames and the abuse it is going to take. I mean I have light carbon mt frame and it has never worried me or given me flex problems. It is a scott scale. The only reason I am thinking about carbon is the deal one could possibly get on the pedalforce group buy. In all honestly I would pull the trigger right now on the kona major jake if I could find one. Is scandium really that much better than alu? Oh and good call on the jamis now if I could only find one

a big crash will ruin any frame. a minor crash...those are the ones that damage the carbon frames integrity without showing any outward signs of damage. seems like there are a lot of minor crashes in cross events.

aside from that...i guess if your a smaller, lighter guy...or a guy that doesn't put ot a lot of wattage...the carbon cx frame might be ok. but if you're a bigger guy, stronger guy? i wouldn't do it...i mean, seriously, roadies complain about sub 1000g frames being too flexy, flimsy, bendy...what do you thinkk they'll do to a sub 1000g frame on a cx course?

on the other hand...if the pedalforce deal is good enough, i guess you could just replace the entire frame when it becomes compromised and not really care very much...

the other thing is...you know...the good aluminum frames are plenty light...the weight saves by going carbon will be very little...half pound TOPS, and thats for a very light carbon cx frame like BH or something. as for the dampening qualities of carbon...for the type of terrain you'll be going over, it's just not going to make a difference. it's gonna feel bumpy...period. your best bet is to run tubulars at a low pressure. it's your wheels and tires that will determine ride quality on a cross course...not your frame material.

having said all that...there's definitely a part of me that wants a carbon cross bike. carbon is sexy, trendy, bling...and i LOVE being a poser and fred when i can. but, as of today, i'm just not convinced there's any benefit. i see benefits of carbon on the road...and for triathlons. but for cross and mountain...i just don't see carbon imparting much of a benefit over aluminum/scandium...

Yeah the pedalforce carbon frame just looks good but I think that is about it. Will probably not be that much of a weight difference if any at all. I do not even like any of my road bikes to be full carbon as they both only have carbon spines. I guess if you really want to get a good carbon frame you are going to have to spend over a grand so pedalforce is out. Carbon does make a difference for mountain bikes though. My carbon hardtail has enough give where I do not need a FS bike to race. Plus with carbon you can do different layups to get the ride and stiffness you want but of course this is for the more expensive one.
I really want the major jake if they ever start to show up but it looks like right now it is going to be the jake the snake. Not such a bad price for 4 bills for frame and fork.

Yeah the pedalforce carbon frame just looks good but I think that is about it. Will probably not be that much of a weight difference if any at all. I do not even like any of my road bikes to be full carbon as they both only have carbon spines. I guess if you really want to get a good carbon frame you are going to have to spend over a grand so pedalforce is out. Carbon does make a difference for mountain bikes though. My carbon hardtail has enough give where I do not need a FS bike to race. Plus with carbon you can do different layups to get the ride and stiffness you want but of course this is for the more expensive one.
I really want the major jake if they ever start to show up but it looks like right now it is going to be the jake the snake. Not such a bad price for 4 bills for frame and fork.

interesting...i have not heard that a carbon hardtail an be a goo substitute for a FS. i HAVE heard that a 29er hardtail can be a good FS substitute. i read in a magazine that there are even a few pros that are riding XC races on 29ers while the counterparts are on FS.

FWIW I just picked up a scandnium Salsa Las Cruces for $600, about half of the MSRP. I don't have any opinions on how it rides yet, but I read the scandnium may actually make the aluminum more compliant and it's carbon light....

Keep an eye out and you may be able to pick up a used Chile Con Crosso or Las Cruces... (Chile more race oriented, Cruces a little more relaxed)

Not sure what the OP's price range is, but I suspect you're not going to find any sub-1000g CX frames in it. Does such a beast even exist? Hell, sub-1000g road frames are still pretty rare... and expensive! If you're not in a hurry to buy, I'd sign up for the Pedal Force group buy at the $550 level and wait to see what happens. Honestly, knowing what I know about the fatigue properties and ride quality of aluminum, I'd take carbon any day of the week... assuming it was well-made. Dunno if PF fits that bill, but for $550 I'd certainly take the chance.

interesting...i have not heard that a carbon hardtail an be a goo substitute for a FS. i HAVE heard that a 29er hardtail can be a good FS substitute. i read in a magazine that there are even a few pros that are riding XC races on 29ers while the counterparts are on FS.

Well it is not a complete sub but it is good enough to get the job done. It is not as harsh when I was racing an alu hardtail. You can completely feel the difference between the two. So a carbon hard tail would be somewhere in between going FS and alu hard tail.
I have a 29er hard tail as well and that is my single speed. That is probably my most fav bike to ride. It just rolls over stuff that most 26in wheels would get caught up on. The biggest complaint is how much harder it takes to get it rolling. 29er tires have come a long way so that also helps.

So, when's your first cross race?

Not sure what the OP's price range is, but I suspect you're not going to find any sub-1000g CX frames in it. Does such a beast even exist? Hell, sub-1000g road frames are still pretty rare... and expensive! If you're not in a hurry to buy, I'd sign up for the Pedal Force group buy at the $550 level and wait to see what happens. Honestly, knowing what I know about the fatigue properties and ride quality of aluminum, I'd take carbon any day of the week... assuming it was well-made. Dunno if PF fits that bill, but for $550 I'd certainly take the chance.

Is that how the group buy works? I imagine that you plop down your $200 now and then you pay the difference when all is said and done. Does anyone have any idea on how many have signed up for the PF cross group buy. I would definitely be in at the $550 mark, but $850 is a bit much for me to swing.

Is that how the group buy works? I imagine that you plop down your $200 now and then you pay the difference when all is said and done. Does anyone have any idea on how many have signed up for the PF cross group buy. I would definitely be in at the $550 mark, but $850 is a bit much for me to swing.

Sorry, answered my own question