Cyclocross - Like a Surly XC but short top tube/racier?

I know there are tons of 'I want a versatile bike' threads but I've been searching and haven't found what I'm looking for. Next spring I'll be doing some extended touring and will be selling my other bikes. The cross check is nearly perfect BUT there are some issues.
1. I want to use the bike for road/cross races/group rides, mountain biking, and triathlons when I'm in towns so I'm looking for a competitive frameset, preferably above 4130 steel. Material doesn't matter.
2. I normally commute on a single speed so I like the horizontal dropouts on the Surly XC but I haven't found a high quality cross frame with a horizontal dropout. This isn't a firm requirement.
3. I'm 186cm tall (6'1.5") but with long legs and a short torso. I ride a 58-60cm frame for the seat tube but have found a 56cm top tube is most comfortable. So I like a shortTT/longST but the Surly is longTT/shortST. Any manufacturers with frames more for my shape or should I resign myself to a stubby stem on a 58cm and a LONG seatpost on a 56cm?
4. I'll probably pull a trailer on tour so I can haul my stuff in a pack for backpacking excursions, but I'd like the option of eyelets for racks/fenders.
5. I'd like to buy used for ideological and financial reasons but I'm worried that if I buy a Surly I'll have to build it up with new parts of higher quality so I can be competitive when racing.
6. I'd really like a carbon fork. I've only ridden steel forks till now and am dissatisfied. Plus, those Surly forks are supposed to be really heavy.

I'm realizing this is basically a wishlist and I'm sorta begging for someone to make my bicycle dreams come true. I'd appreciate it if I could get opinions on what points are unrealistic hopes and what's possible for a single bike.

Also, we don't have much cyclocross in Louisiana but I promise that once I'm in other parts of the country I'll use my cyclocross bike for actual cyclocross!

1. I want to use the bike for road/cross races/group rides, mountain biking, and triathlons when I'm in towns so I'm looking for a competitive frameset, preferably above 4130 steel. Material doesn't matter.

You are going to be very hard-pressed to find a bike setup that will work well for all of these, in addition to being a touring bike.

You are going to be very hard-pressed to find a bike setup that will work well for all of these, in addition to being a touring bike.

Ditto, but check the Jamis Nova Pro; Carbon fork & seat stays, Touring geometry.

Michael

Ditto, but check the Jamis Nova Pro; Carbon fork & seat stays, Touring geometry.

Michael

Thanks, that Nova Pro looks pretty great. I was hoping for 105 lvl components for racing but I've heard that Tiagra has the same basic design as 105. Is the Nova Pro a long running model that I might be able to pick up on ebay?

Yes, I saw a new size 58 sell for $900 recently

Now is the exact wrong time to be shopping for a used cross bike.

I personally wouldn't get too hung up on the long top tube. Most cross bikes have a slightly longer top tube. We're talking about, what, 2cm? A 10cm stem is exactly 2cm shorter than 12cm. "Stubby"?

What is it about steel forks that you have found unsatisfactory? Their bombproof sturdiness? The compliant yet solid ride quality? The absence of brake squeal?

AFAIK there is no bike on the market with the same singlespeed/geared versatility as the Surly. You can always use an eccentric hub for singlespeed, but of course that adds to the budget.

I think it's going to be tough to be competitive on a crosscheck as it weighs so much more than the bikes the guys ride who win. I've seen some reasonable titanium frames for cheap. Oddball, no-name is the sweet spot.

I think it's going to be tough to be competitive on a crosscheck as it weighs so much more than the bikes the guys ride who win.I call B.S. Look at what Lithuania has done on a San Jose, a bike people like you would sniff at as a boat anchor. Based on your comments, I doubt that you race cross competitively.

I'm thinking custom is the way to go for your size requirements. Waterford makes TIG welded cross frames that are cheaper than their lugged versions. They're either True Temper or Reynolds 853 so they're about as light as steel gets. You can specify what kind of dropouts you want also. That's about the only way I can see you meeting your size requirements. Good luck

You've answered you own question. No, you can't have one frame that does it all and does it all well. I love my Cross Check but 1) it's a little heavy for racing, and 2) the top tube is too long to be comfortable for really long rides and touring. It makes a great comuter. :)

Some of the Scandium frame bikes are well priced (like Salsa) but probably not suited for touring. I just got a La Pierre X-lite scandium and love it; light and the geometry is perfect. If you're really set on horizontal drops you don't have too many options. This is why people buy custom frames! Damn your budget!

DEAN (www.deanbikes.com) just built my buddy a custom bike along those lines, canti bosses, room for large tires, but more road-racing/hardcore touring in it's geometry, with rack mounts.

Not cheap, but a beautiful bike.

Now is the exact wrong time to be shopping for a used cross bike.

I personally wouldn't get too hung up on the long top tube. Most cross bikes have a slightly longer top tube. We're talking about, what, 2cm? A 10cm stem is exactly 2cm shorter than 12cm. "Stubby"?

What is it about steel forks that you have found unsatisfactory? Their bombproof sturdiness? The compliant yet solid ride quality? The absence of brake squeal?

AFAIK there is no bike on the market with the same singlespeed/geared versatility as the Surly. You can always use an eccentric hub for singlespeed, but of course that adds to the budget.

When is a better time to find a used cross bike? I technically won't need it until May but my bike lust compels me to consider an early purchase.

I use a 90cm stem with a 58cm tt on my commuter but I'd really like to lose 2cm of length and add 2 cm of drop. A 70cm stem just seems silly so I'm hoping for a 56cm tt.

I do enjoy the sturdiness of steel forks as I've bent several in crashes that would have detonated a carbon fork; however, in my experience larger diameter, thicker tubing in steel forks (such as the Surly fork) leads to a rather harsh ride. I'll agree that the more graceful 531 steel forks on old road bikes are wonderful.

I'm thinking custom is the way to go for your size requirements. Waterford makes TIG welded cross frames that are cheaper than their lugged versions. They're either True Temper or Reynolds 853 so they're about as light as steel gets. You can specify what kind of dropouts you want also. That's about the only way I can see you meeting your size requirements. Good luck
I'm originally from wisconsin so I'm all for Waterford, heck my tour is starting from there so I could pick it up from the factory, but spending that much on a custom frame when this is a bike that will be in real danger of being stolen when I'm visiting cities sounds foolhardy.

DEAN (www.deanbikes.com (http://www.deanbikes.com/)) just built my buddy a custom bike along those lines, canti bosses, room for large tires, but more road-racing/hardcore touring in it's geometry, with rack mounts.

Those are the specs I'm looking for. Could you find out what was the approximate cost?

I know I've said that this bike will be used for touring, but I'm not looking for a touring bike. I have an old Masi with "Touring" geometry and I really dislike it. Mtn Mike, do cyclocross bikes with aggressive "race" geometry typically have longish or shorter top tubes?

Here's Sosenka's hour record bike, showing, in extreme,the tall seat and short top tube I'm looking for:
http://www.sosenka.cz/archiv/2005/m12.jpg

I use a 90cm stem with a 58cm tt on my commuter but I'd really like to lose 2cm of length and add 2 cm of drop. What do you mean by adding 2cm of "drop"? A shorter headtube? If you want a shorter top tube and a shorter headtube, get a smaller frame.

But I suspect the reason you think you want a shorter top tube is because you've spent a lifetime riding too-small bikes. If you actually have long legs and short torso/arms, the last thing you want is tons of drop from saddle to bars.

What do you mean by adding 2cm of "drop"? A shorter headtube? If you want a shorter top tube and a shorter headtube, get a smaller frame.

But I suspect the reason you think you want a shorter top tube is because you've spent a lifetime riding too-small bikes. If you actually have long legs and short torso/arms, the last thing you want is tons of drop from saddle to bars.

My current commuter has a 90mm quill stem that is currently at max extension in a 60cm frame. This gets me about 3cm of drop. If I could reduce my reach 2cm I'd love to increase my saddle to handlebar drop to around 5cm for a more aggressive position without having my arms so stretched forward.

I'm rather young, but I do not believe any of my bikes have been too small for me. (except for when I grew 2 inches the year after I bought my second mountain bike :P) I've ridden a variety of both road and mountain bikes with both casual and more aggressive positions. I tend to follow Lemond's guidance on positioning but I've read stuff by Peter White, Sheldon Brown, Keith Bontrager, Dan Empfield and Grant Peterson. Peterson convinced me to try a 60cm frame when I'd previously stuck to around ~58cm, so I've tried large bikes.

My arms are in proportion to my legs so they aren't short, and can handle a goodly amount of drop without restricting my breathing or pedal stroke. Thanks for the advice so far, I know how hard it is to advise someone over the internet...

My current commuter has a 90mm quill stem that is currently at max extension in a 60cm frame. This gets me about 3cm of drop. If I could reduce my reach 2cm I'd love to increase my saddle to handlebar drop to around 5cm for a more aggressive position without having my arms so stretched forward.OK fair nuff. That photo of Sosenka's bike threw me for a loop.

Vodoo Wazoo:

http://www.voodoocycles.net/08_wazoo.htm

Steel.
Sliding dropouts.
Carbon fork.

You can thank me later :) .

EDIT: lacking in the eyelets, but there are ways around that, 'specially if you're using a trailer.

Vodoo Wazoo:

http://www.voodoocycles.net/08_wazoo.htm

Steel.
Sliding dropouts.
Carbon fork.

You can thank me later :) .

EDIT: lacking in the eyelets, but there are ways around that, 'specially if you're using a trailer.

I'll thank you now! It's a great looking bike and I'll keep it on my short list. I have never bought a bike new but I'll consider buying a new Voodoo Wazoo if it's getting close to my departure and I haven't found anything.