Harassed and assulted by motor drivers with witnesses that give full details to the police only to be told that there is nothing that the police can do because the did not witness the assult.
My incident was two teenage males that cut me off, harassed me for a mile thru Sausalito (California) spat and thru objects at me and got out of the car, one with a knife and enveloped me in a altercation (no Injuries) with five witnesses that gave wehicle id to the police and witness statements (supporting my possition) only to be told by the officer, after talking with the two kids that this was a case of esculated road rage (on both sides) and that there was nothig they could do. Does this seem right, to be asullted with colaborating wintnesses and be told that there was not a case?
It seems to me that when a cyclist is involved in an assult from a motorist that the police do not take the sittuation (ie the the cyclst's rights) seriously, that they just hope that it will go away?
Chris L
03-21-04, 01:02 AM
I don't know the system in California, but if that ever happened to me out here I'd be taking my complaint to a higher level -- just the same as I would if I got no satisfaction from my dealings with any other organisation.
If I were you I'd be taking my complaint (including the report of the incident and the name of the unco-operative officer) to a higher ranking official within the force.
detrieux
03-21-04, 04:52 AM
You may want to go talk to the prosecuting attorney or a private attorney if going up the chain of command at the Police Station is not successful.
Middi-zon
03-21-04, 06:54 AM
Go to the police station and ask to speak to the shift commander at the time of the incident, if he or she is not there ask when will be the next time that they will be working. Do not ask for an appointment or state your name (if its not asked) if the shift commander's not there (you want to stay unannounced). When you do speak with him or her, have the report in hand and explain what happened, stay calm in your explanation but seem annoyed when you describe what the officer did. Refuse to leave until it is resolved.
-Middi-zon (Future bike friendly cop)
Dchiefransom
03-21-04, 09:47 AM
You can always go straight to the District Attorney's office for Marin County and tell them you want to press charges. Road rage on both sides is an excuse to get out of doing the officer's job. They are police, not attorney's. The vehicle could have driven away at any time, yet they stopped and got out with a deadly weapon. If the knife was not readily visible in the vehicle, they could have been charged with possession of a concealed weapon. This is what happens when Mommy and Daddy have an address in a rich area.
Tell the Watch Commander if you go in to complain that you expect the police themselves to pass off as "road rage", the next time someone pulls a knife on them, or runs at them with their car, and not pull their guns and shoot them multiple times.
ngateguy
03-21-04, 10:24 AM
If all else fails go to the media they love stories like this, even when cyclists are involved.
On Tour
03-21-04, 10:42 AM
"You can always go straight to the District Attorney's office for Marin County and tell them you want to press charges. Road rage on both sides is an excuse to get out of doing the officer's job. They are police, not attorney's. The vehicle could have driven away at any time, yet they stopped and got out with a deadly weapon. If the knife was not readily visible in the vehicle, they could have been charged with possession of a concealed weapon. This is what happens when Mommy and Daddy have an address in a rich area.
Tell the Watch Commander if you go in to complain that you expect the police themselves to pass off as "road rage", the next time someone pulls a knife on them, or runs at them with their car, and not pull their guns and shoot them multiple times."
Good advice! The above post says it all. As stated, the children in the car could have driven off. The last I heard, it was illegal for one person to threaten another with a knife, regardless of the circumstances. It's also illegal to detain someone. If they forced you to stop, and held you at knife point, this was illegal detainment. I would get the witness statments in writing, if you haven't already. I would also obtain a copy of the police report that was filed. Then consider your options for taking the appropriate action. Many police officers do not want to deal with cyclists, as being a cop is a macho thing. It looks better for a police officer to write a report on chasing a stolen vehicle, making a drug bust, etc. then to "cite" a motor vehicle for failing to yield the right of way to a cyclist. For police officers, doing the right thing when it comes to cyclists, makes a cop look wimpy. The resulting action by the police is usually, (but not always) selective blindness when these type of incidents occur.
Zin
03-21-04, 11:19 AM
If all else fails go to the media they love stories like this, even when cyclists are involved.
Yep, they sure do! And the Police don't like that kind of spotlight put on them either!
If the authorities don't give you satisfaction, go to the press. Have all your documents in order and have your story typed up for reference. You don't want to be mis-quoted.
randya
03-21-04, 05:41 PM
I know that this is not a direct answer to your question, but read the links I posted on this thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=47886 for an 'explanation' of the reason for the inappropriate police behavior. In addition to approaching the DA and the media (I'd be cautious with the media - make sure that if they publish anything, it is sympathetic, and not an 'unbiased' report that also gives credence to your antagonist's POV); you should also think about contacting the local bicycle advocacy group http://www.marinbike.org/Index.htm , the local police citizen's review board, and/or retaining an attorney and filing a civil suit against the individuals that harassed you.
kwv
03-21-04, 07:29 PM
Has this ever happened to you?
Harassed and assulted by motor drivers with witnesses that give full details to the police only to be told that there is nothing that the police can do because the did not witness the assult.
My incident was two teenage males that cut me off, harassed me for a mile thru Sausalito (California) spat and thru objects at me and got out of the car, one with a knife and enveloped me in a altercation (no Injuries) with five witnesses that gave wehicle id to the police and witness statements (supporting my possition) only to be told by the officer, after talking with the two kids that this was a case of esculated road rage (on both sides) and that there was nothig they could do. Does this seem right, to be asullted with colaborating wintnesses and be told that there was not a case?
It seems to me that when a cyclist is involved in an assult from a motorist that the police do not take the sittuation (ie the the cyclst's rights) seriously, that they just hope that it will go away?
Before I got hit by an car (Allister that is why I scare to get back on the bike) I reported an assault to the police as a cyclist.
They must have done something as the driver ring me to say he would paid for ther damage to the bike but the phone call was the last of heard of it as there was no money forth coming.
But also many times the police say they cannot do anything as they have to be there to witness what happen.
So you get different members of the police force telling you different things.
madpogue
03-22-04, 08:30 AM
That the cops underplay such violence is, unfortunately, not uncommon. What's surprising is that they did so in an incident involving an armed assailant. When you talk to whomever you talk to about this (shift commander, DA's office, media, your own atty, etc.), keep hammering on the fact that this was an ARMED attack. Use the word "armed" and the word "weapon" at every opportunity. Ask the commander and/or the DA if it's standard procedure for the police to conduct NO investigation on attacks by ARMED assailants.
That the assailant didn't actually inflict any injury with the weapon is irrelevant. By making it visible, he "used" it. Pulling out even a toy weapon, if it's realistic enough that a reasonable person would consider it real, constitutes threat of deadly force.
AndrewP
03-22-04, 11:39 AM
I was told that 'threat of immediate bodily harm' constituted assualt, and that no actual hit was required.
townandcountry
03-22-04, 12:36 PM
I saw a similiar posting somewhere, only the cyclist got the ticket for "road rage" and he was the one threatened. Like the above postings, go to the station commander, district attorney, media. We have rights too, sometimes a left.
The Wanderer
03-22-04, 12:37 PM
Can I ask where in Sausalito this took place? I commute right through town (approx. Marin City to Golden Gate Bridge everyday) and have only had to be careful of rubberneck tourists slowing down for a view. It is interesting to note that Sausalito Police have probably the stiffest reputation for ticketing cyclists that ride through stops or red lights in the whole Bay Area (something I've seen several times). Dare I ask why the police termed this "esculated road rage (on both sides)"?
The good folks at the Marin County Bicycle Coalition (www.mcbc.org) may be able to offer some advice on approaching the county DA.
Good luck and don't let this go if you still have your witnesses and statements.
Daily Commute
03-22-04, 01:09 PM
The others are right to say you should call the city prosecutor's office and, if that doesn't work, the county prosecutor's office. You might be able to file charges yourself. If the prosecutors won't help, see if the local court clerk's web site has information on how to file a criminal complaint. If it doesn't, call a local attorney to get advice on how the system works (expect to pay a fee for the lawyer's time, unless you can find a pro-biker attorney willing to work pro-bono).
The shift commander idea is good to. But also make sure you file a written complaint against the cop, especially if he refused to preserve evidence in the case.
Let us know what happens.
Allister
03-22-04, 05:17 PM
Harassed and assulted by motor drivers with witnesses that give full details to the police only to be told that there is nothing that the police can do because the did not witness the assult.
So the police are now only pursuing crimes that they actually witness? That should make their job a lot easier.
"Officer, my house has been burgled!".
"Sorry Ma'am, I didn't see it happen, so there's nothing I can do."
"Officer, I've found a dead body in the creek!"
"Sorry sir, I didn't see the murder, so there's nothing I can do."
Am I the only one that thinks this is not only a ludicrous position to take, but also possibly criminally negligent?
Chris L
03-22-04, 08:13 PM
Am I the only one that thinks this is not only a ludicrous position to take, but also possibly criminally negligent?
Of course it is, but let's make one thing clear: This is just the story from one cop. One guy who doesn't want to do his job. How much does his opinion reflect the stance of the entire force on this issue?
Now if I'm in a supermarket queue that's not moving, I'll go and join one that is.
randya
03-22-04, 08:57 PM
Believe me, a lot of cops are like this in the USA when it comes to bicyclists...
Allister
03-22-04, 09:26 PM
I seem to recall hearing this excuse on this forum alone on more than one occasion. I'm not sure if it's policy, but it's beginning to seem that way.
Chris L
03-23-04, 01:17 AM
I seem to recall hearing this excuse on this forum alone on more than one occasion. I'm not sure if it's policy, but it's beginning to seem that way.
All the more reason to take the complaint to a higher level.
Daily Commute
03-23-04, 04:52 AM
So the police are now only pursuing crimes that they actually witness? That should make their job a lot easier.
"Officer, my house has been burgled!".
"Sorry Ma'am, I didn't see it happen, so there's nothing I can do."
"Officer, I've found a dead body in the creek!"
"Sorry sir, I didn't see the murder, so there's nothing I can do."
Am I the only one that thinks this is not only a ludicrous position to take, but also possibly criminally negligent?
While the cop should have been more helpful, there are rules in some places that prevent cops from arresting and/or filing complaints for misdemeanors unless the cop witnesses the infraction. The rules are more permissive for felonies. Since none of us know the law where this happened, jdr needs to talk to the local prosecutors and/or a private attorney.
Laggard
03-23-04, 07:45 AM
Let this be a lesson to those who think that the police are our friends.
ngateguy
03-23-04, 08:48 AM
While the cop should have been more helpful, there are rules in some places that prevent cops from arresting and/or filing complaints for misdemeanors unless the cop witnesses the infraction. The rules are more permissive for felonies. Since none of us know the law where this happened, jdr needs to talk to the local prosecutors and/or a private attorney.
In the case of assault he police rarely witness it and routinely arrest people for it. So either the witnesses did not back up the story of the officer was negligent. Assault with a weapon is not a misdemeanor.
Daily Commute
03-23-04, 09:02 AM
In the case of assault he police rarely witness it and routinely arrest people for it. So either the witnesses did not back up the story of the officer was negligent. Assault with a weapon is not a misdemeanor.
I agree that the cop acted irresponsibly. At a minimum, he should have made a detailed report with names and statements for future use. I just want to separate fair and unfair criticism. Assault, by itself, is usually a misdemeanor, but the knife might move it up to a felony (I plead ignorance of California law).
When he speaks to the prosecutors, I think jdr needs to emphasize that his assailants had a knife. I know a car is dangerous, but pulling a knife takes the thing to a whole new level.
Let this be a lesson to those who think that the police are our friends.
Most cops do a decent job most of the time. Let's not make an enemy of all of them. This cop messed up. Hopefully jdr follows up with a complaint. Given the volatile situations cops find themselves in, and the quick judgments they have to make, I'm surprised they don't make more mistakes.
sidewinder
03-23-04, 11:35 AM
The police misinformed you. Once you were threatened with a weapon and had witnesses to verify that armed threat, you had and (I believe) still have the right to file charges on your own. It's akin to a citizen's arrest.
darksky
03-23-04, 12:26 PM
I don't know the system in California, but if that ever happened to me out here I'd be taking my complaint to a higher level -- just the same as I would if I got no satisfaction from my dealings with any other organisation.
If I were you I'd be taking my complaint (including the report of the incident and the name of the unco-operative officer) to a higher ranking official within the force.
Agreed!
Dchiefransom
03-23-04, 08:45 PM
I agree that the cop acted irresponsibly. At a minimum, he should have made a detailed report with names and statements for future use. I just want to separate fair and unfair criticism. Assault, by itself, is usually a misdemeanor, but the knife might move it up to a felony (I plead ignorance of California law).
When he speaks to the prosecutors, I think jdr needs to emphasize that his assailants had a knife. I know a car is dangerous, but pulling a knife takes the thing to a whole new level.
Most cops do a decent job most of the time. Let's not make an enemy of all of them. This cop messed up. Hopefully jdr follows up with a complaint. Given the volatile situations cops find themselves in, and the quick judgments they have to make, I'm surprised they don't make more mistakes.
There have been several instances in California in the last year where a person drove a car toward a police officer, and was immediately shot dead for doing it. I guess police officers are special people with special privileges, and more important than the common person. The pulling of the knife in California is felonious assault, and would be "Strike One" toward three strikes and you stay in prison for life.
Why would the officer think the road rage involved both sides? Did the cyclist flip the driver the finger? What occured that would give him/her this idea? Not that two people in a situation would ever lie to get out of trouble.
madpogue
03-23-04, 09:09 PM
Why would the officer think the road rage involved both sides? Did the cyclist flip the driver the finger? What occured that would give him/her this idea? Not that two people in a situation would ever lie to get out of trouble. So what? Flipping the finger is stupid. It may be illegal. It might be the kind of thing that the police, as they claim, can't investigate since they didn't see it. But "the finger" is NOT A WEAPON. So what if the road rage involved "both sides"? One side used a WEAPON!
cyclezealot
03-23-04, 09:32 PM
I would be as ticked off at the officier as the assailants..This could have evolved into something serious...LIke assault...I would be speaking to the sargeant at the police office, right away.Please, don't let this pass and let us know of what occurs.If not for yourself then for all of us.
Dchiefransom
03-25-04, 09:02 PM
So what? Flipping the finger is stupid. It may be illegal. It might be the kind of thing that the police, as they claim, can't investigate since they didn't see it. But "the finger" is NOT A WEAPON. So what if the road rage involved "both sides"? One side used a WEAPON!
I was actually wondering if the kids in the car came up with some lame story about the cyclist. From the original story, it sounds like two weapons were used. Too many seem to overlook the original move with the vehicle as assault with a deadly weapon.
ChipRGW
03-26-04, 08:43 AM
FYI,
What constitutes Assult and/or Battery?
I yell, "I'm going to kick you!" = Assault
I actually DO kick you = Battery
Chris L
03-26-04, 04:08 PM
FYI,
What constitutes Assult and/or Battery?
That depends whether you use it to operate your walkman.