Advocacy & Safety - Bicycle "Tax"

Last Saturday, the Sacramento Bee published a letter from a person suggesting that riders pay a tax for the privilege of using the road. As near as I could tell, she was serious. It's a long letter but here is a link http://www.sacbee.com/326/story/1341899.html.
I think what was going on is she has a chip on her shoulder against bicyclists. For this reason, I think it is important to always be polite, etc to motorists. We should try to be ambassadors, as it were, for cycling. I think the more people that ride, the better it is in the long run, and antagonizing drivers doesn't help anything.

Of coure, there ARE exceptions....

taxes: #1 strawman thrown up by motorists who don't like sharing the road. It's a pretty ignorant argument, and has been rebutted many many times in the past in several different mediums. It's not really even worth arguing over anymore.

It's patriotic to pay taxes.

Here's a slightly different take. Bicycle tax is mentioned as only one of several possible fees.
This appeared in the 10/27/08 issue Eugene Oregon Register-Guard. (I had to cut and past, there was no direct link.) Our roads, btw, are in really rough shape.

Tax all users of the roadways


I read in The Register-Guard recently that there is a measure to fund street repair with property taxes — $35.9 million over five years.
Are only property owners allowed to vote on this issue? It doesn’t seem quite fair to allow someone who won’t have to be ponying up to say someone else must pay.
Why not allay these costs with, say, bicycle and car taxes? What about the trucks that are responsible for a great deal of the damage?
How about the visitors to Eugene? Shouldn’t they bear some of the cost?
Property taxes are high enough! I think Eugene ought to ease off a bit on penalizing folks who’ve chosen to buy their homes there.
Tax all the users of the roads, not just the home owners.

Tax should be based on gross vehicle weight

Awesome avatar, ritepath.

Kind of interesting how the same folks that insist the road is for them as well, think it's crazy to ask them to help pay for it.

I might be willing to pay a small registration fee IF there was some assurance that it would go to making the roads safer for us. Little things like wider shoulders. I wouldn't expect every road to be that way, but, an intelligent network of roads designated as bike friendly would be nice. About 8 of my 12 mile commute is on ellington rd. It is the best way to get from ellington to south windsor where I work. It would be a logical pic for such a network. But, about 5 miles of it are extremely bike unfriendly. Horrible sightlines with a narrow crappy shoulder. It is why my ride home is 3 miles longer because I refuse to ride it in heavy traffic.

Ofcourse, I would also expect tax breaks such as the BS ones that are given to prius pilots.

@ Mr Phil - While homeowners may directly pay property taxes, everyone pays these taxes indirectly so everyone who lives and works in the jurisdiction is a taxpayer. (For example, if someone rents their house or apartment to someone, they will look to recoup the cost of the taxes to some extent in the rental price they ask.)

It's patriotic to pay taxes.

You neglected to add any indication of sarcasm, so one must assume that you are being sincere.

What is your opinion of Henry Paulson, when moving as CEO of Goldman Sachs to Treasury Secretary, he sold $500 million of stock tax-free, because of a loop hole that is supposedly intended to allow people to move from private enterprise to government employment without being penalized - the sale of the stock is intended to remove potential for a conflict of interest. Funnily enough, most others achieve this buy putting their assets into a blind-trust. Funnily enough, the conflict of interest is still present because Paulson has a $1 million a year pension at Goldman Sachs one of the primary beneficiaries of the $700 billion bailout.

The good news, is that neither Obama nor McCain will radically change the status-quo and pretty soon there is going to be the mother of all collapses, 1929 through 1939 will look like a picnic.

What is your opinion of Henry Paulson, when moving as CEO of Goldman Sachs to Treasury Secretary, he sold $500 million of stock tax-free, because of a loop hole that is supposedly intended to allow people to move from private enterprise to government employment without being penalized - the sale of the stock is intended to remove potential for a conflict of interest.

Sounds like a smart man...I suppose that loophole won't get closed up anytime soon. Now to figure out how to come up with 500m in stock.

gmacdermid - I don't disagree with you. I've already cast my vote in favor of the levy. I do think the letter writer (NOT ME) raises interesting issues. And, it's one thing to know you're paying property taxes with your rent. It's quite another thing to get the bill in the mail. I just got mine; $3400.

gmacdermid - I don't disagree with you. I've already cast my vote in favor of the levy. I do think the letter writer (NOT ME) raises interesting issues. And, it's one thing to know you're paying property taxes with your rent. It's quite another thing to get the bill in the mail. I just got mine; $3400.

Bet you wish you had a sales tax.

In general, the larger the road, the larger the percentage of funding from the Feds. For smaller county roads and city streets, save for designated state and federal highways, the funding comes from local taxes. Now who is to say that some towns and cities don't have a special gas tax which goes directly to funding roads.

Saving Hawaii - I really like not having a sales tax. The property tax rate is not as high as the upper Midwest, where I grew up. We do have a pretty steep income tax. I think Oregon is on the low end of taxation. Our roads and schools reflect that.

I also like that someone else pumps my gas. No self serve here. Originally for safety, now it cuts down on spillage.

gmacdermid - I don't disagree with you. I've already cast my vote in favor of the levy. I do think the letter writer (NOT ME) raises interesting issues. And, it's one thing to know you're paying property taxes with your rent. It's quite another thing to get the bill in the mail. I just got mine; $3400.

3400, huh?

Wanna trade? That's low here in the people's republic of Ct. And we have a 6.5% sales tax and an income tax.

I also like that someone else pumps my gas. No self serve here. Originally for safety, now it cuts down on spillage.

Couldn't ossibly have anything to do with service station owners lobby. Nope. No way. :rolleyes:

Actually pete, the station owners hate it and try to get it repealed every few years. No one will sign their initiative petitions.

The attendants usually have treats for your dog, too.

I've paid tax on every bike I've ever owned. Sales tax. Rate is the same for cars and bikes here.

If you look into the issue, you'll find that most roads that cyclists use -- i.e., non-expressways -- are primarily paid for by local taxes: sales tax, income tax, and property tax. Gas taxes go overwhelmingly to roads that cyclists are excluded from.

I've come to the conclusion that the key to getting a road built is to conceal how it's paid for from the people paying for it.

Let's have a little fun and pick this argument apart.


We must all agree that California is in an economic quandary of mammoth proportions, yet there is one resource that remains untapped.The Governator's bank account?


For so long, California bicyclists have enjoyed the economic freedoms associated with their transportation of choice.Uhmm, why limit it to just California bicyclists? What's next? Taxing people who live "off the grid" for not using electricity? That makes a lot of (non)sense.


They have advocated "sharing the roadway,"Because it's the law.


and they easily glide past gas stations Which goes hand in glove with riding a bicycle in the first place.


with smug shortsightedness.Many bicyclists choose to ride because they enjoy it; cost benefit is a happy bonus (although what money is saved in gas more often goes to more bike goodies).


Because these individuals are so adroitly committed to sharing the roadway, I would like to truly integrate them into actually sharing these highways and byways.Thanks, but we already have that covered.



I believe that people who choose to share the roadway, as it were, should meet the following requirements.

They must be licensed as we all are;Problems, let's count, shall we. 1) Enforcement; 2) Bureaucracy (you just said "that California is in an economic quandary of mammoth proportions", and you think adding another agency is going to lessen the economic problem?); 3) Criteria (are you going to require little Suzy to pass a test before her training wheels come off? How about drivers of oversized SUVs that don't know how to use a turn signal?) 4) oh, forget it, let's just move on.


their vehicles (yes, bicycles are considered vehicles, No kidding, Einstein.


yet I consider them toys on steroids) At least you're making your bias known. And I consider SUVs to be nothing more than station wagons on steroids, so there.


should be formally registered; and special handbooks should be issued by the DMV (under a sister agency, the Department of Bipedular Vehicles) to instruct proper and legal operation of such contraptions.
Again, how is adding another level of bureaucracy going to help things?


Bicyclists do not pay fuel taxes, or vehicle registration fees, or licensing fees, yet they claim co-ownership of our roadways.Because it is stated in the state law. Look it up. I'm a librarian and I can help you understand the big words.


Helmets and knee padding scarcely pay for the upkeep and maintenance of the roadways that bicyclists advocate sharing.Neither does chrome hub caps, in-car navigation systems, and 18" wheels, yet car owners buy those.


Let these cyclists pay their fair share, too, if they wish to continue sharing our roadways.We do; it's called "Sales Tax". Oh, and since many adult bicycle riders also own homes, they also pay property taxes, sewer and water taxes, phone taxes, income taxes, estate taxes, etc. Don't say we don't pay our fair share of taxes. Oh, and believe it or not, many bicyclists also own cars and, yes, pay fuel taxes. Chew on that.

Did anyone notice the barely concealed envy in the writers words,("gliding past gas stations")?

Did anyone notice the barely concealed envy in the writers words,("gliding past gas stations")?

Haha, that's great. Classic wolf in a manger syndrome.

gmacdermid - I don't disagree with you. I've already cast my vote in favor of the levy. I do think the letter writer (NOT ME) raises interesting issues. And, it's one thing to know you're paying property taxes with your rent. It's quite another thing to get the bill in the mail. I just got mine; $3400.

I get the rent increase in the mail after the owner of the house gets his tax increase in the mail.

I get the rent increase in the mail after the owner of the house gets his tax increase in the mail.

Around here they just evict you, eat your deposit, and find some new victim. There are a few good landlords.

Tax should be based on gross vehicle weight
if thats the case youll be spending 2000% in consumable goods

Tax should be based on gross vehicle weight


if thats the case you'll be spending 2000% [more on] in consumable goods

Or, people will cut back 90% on discretionary expenditure on goods made overseas and your career opportunities will diminish equally.

What if vehicle tax was based on gross vehicle weight with exceptions for commercial and agricultural, and payment was made as part of the fuel purchased at the gasoline / diesel pump?

It's patriotic to pay taxes.

Patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel.

-Samuel Johnson, April 7, 1775.

Or, people will cut back 90% on discretionary expenditure on goods made overseas and your career opportunities will diminish equally.

What if vehicle tax was based on gross vehicle weight with exceptions for commercial and agricultural, and payment was made as part of the fuel purchased at the gasoline / diesel pump?

It still wouldn't be fair... my little sister can jump on her trampoline until she grows up and it'll be fine, but if I were to jump it'd be falling apart in fewer jumps than I could count on a hand (at best!).

Patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel.

-Samuel Johnson, April 7, 1775.

All things considered, I hate the "taxpayer advocates" who ***** all day long about the "horrendous" taxes and yet couple that with this notion that they should receive some kind of obligatory service without even paying.

Let's have a little fun and pick this argument apart.

-Many bicyclists choose to ride because they enjoy it; cost benefit is a happy bonus (although what money is saved in gas more often goes to more bike goodies).

I do this because I love it.


And I consider SUVs to be nothing more than station wagons on steroids, so there.



That made me laugh, props to you! :lol:

It still wouldn't be fair... my little sister can jump on her trampoline until she grows up and it'll be fine, but if I were to jump it'd be falling apart in fewer jumps than I could count on a hand (at best!).

Obviously you are choosing to compare use of a child's trampoline by a child and ignoring that there are trampolines designed for adults. Also how is it possible to compare a child using something designed for a child with vehicles using a road - unless I am very much mistaken roads are designed for vehicles, please correct me if i am wrong.

In my opinion it would be eminently fair for people to pay according to their use - heavy vehicle combined with high mileage equals pay through the nose. People are free to choose a lighter, more economical vehicle or cut back on superfluous journeys.

Last Saturday, the Sacramento Bee published a letter from a person suggesting that riders pay a tax for the privilege of using the road.

:rolleyes: That old chestnut.


For this reason, I think it is important to always be polite, etc to motorists. We should try to be ambassadors, as it were, for cycling.

I refuse to validate the prejudices of the ignorant. I have no more desire to be an 'ambassador for cycling' than I do to be an 'ambassador for white men'.


I think the more people that ride, the better it is in the long run, and antagonizing drivers doesn't help anything.


I don't antagonise drivers. They antagonise me.

.... unless I am very much mistaken roads are designed for vehicles, please correct me if i am wrong.
....


You are wrong.

Roads are designed for transportation.

Just brainstorming here....

Let's say it costs $100 a year to register my car (I don't remember the actual number offhand). My car weighs something like 2500 lbs. My bike weighs 25 lbs or so. So I should have to pay $1 a year to register my bike. Yeah, I could live would that. Of course, they'd probably have to charge $51, to offset the administrative costs of processing bike registrations. Hey, look! a jobs program!

Then they'd need to expect the police to inspect bikers' registrations. You'd need to hire more police. But there'd be fines, which would (depending on the state, I guess) go to the town or the county, to help offset the cost of more police. Local revenue enhancement! If the fines are set at the right level, municipalities could actually make a profit. Cool.

Maybe shoes should be registered as well. Let's say, to make it easy, that every pair of shoes weighs 1 lb. I guess that's 7 cents registration fee (rounding up...is my math right?), plus $50 admin, $50.07. You have to display a registration sticker on your left shoe, and an inspection sticker on your right shoe. Yeah, you have to take your shoes in for inspection once a year. If they fail, you have to walk home barefoot. Just think of the increased revenue for shoe stores and shoe repair shops! It could save our economy!

I'm still thinking.

one dollar per pound.

Just brainstorming here....

Let's say it costs $100 a year to register my car (I don't remember the actual number offhand). My car weighs something like 2500 lbs. My bike weighs 25 lbs or so. So I should have to pay $1 a year to register my bike. Yeah, I could live would that. Of course, they'd probably have to charge $51, to offset the administrative costs of processing bike registrations. Hey, look! a jobs program! <SNIP>

For the fun of it I just pulled our the registration on my 2 cars. Registration is good for 2 years to eliminate yearly paperwork. These numbers are from NY State famous for all its taxes...
Car 1 - 2003 Station wagon that weights 3525 - 2 year cost: 65.00 (32.25 per year)
Car 2 - 1998 Sedan that weighs 3272 - 2 year cost: 52.50 (26.26 per year)

Car 1 - $0.009 per Lbs
Car 2 - $0.008 per Lbs

Clearly NY State does not price the registration cost per Lbs in an exact linear fasion, but my sample is too small... either way, I'll average the two and come to $0.0085 per Lbs.

Bike 1 (hybrid) weights about 33 Lbs therefore my yearly registration should be: $0.28
Bike 2 (road bike) weighs about 19 Lbs therefore my yearly registration should be: $0.16

Since cost of postage is about twice what the state would collect then how about a lifetime registation fee. How does 10 years sound? That would mean I'd pay $2.80 for my hybrid and an other $1.60 for my road bike. Now that is REALY going to help the state coffers :thumb:

Ofcourse this is all sillyness. I pay plenty of local taxes and those are the funds that go to maintaining the streets I ride on. I already have a drivers license so that lets me drive any car, or truck up to something like 22,000 Lbs. I think that should cover my 19 Lbs bike. If not, why not add some difficult questions to the road test:
- A bike should ride on what side of the street (right or left)
- A bike should (stop/run) red traffic lights
- A car should (share the road with/run off the road) any bicycle they encounter on the road
- A bike (must/should not) use lights after dark
- A drivers license (can/cannot) be revoked if you ride/drive your bike/car at or above the legal blood alcohol content
Now everyone will have proven that they understand how to interact in traffic with a bicycle so the licence should automatically add the right to ride a bike to the basic license.

If road users could answer the above 5 questions correctly life would be much better on the roads for veryone .

Happy riding,
André

You know what, I ride a bicycle because its free.

And I realize now that what i'm being told is that the government is going to invade my personal life and force me to register to ride my bicycle.

Next what, registering my shoes?

This is ridiculous.
I will not have people controlling my choice of transport unless it is an automobile.

To me, a bicycle represents freedom.

On the subject of specialized tax, why are walkers and joggers exempt? They supposedly exist in greater numbers then bicyclists and they utilize some portion of the transportation right-of-way. So if there is talk of getting each mode to pay their way we should also have a shoe and sneaker tax.

If we can't get people to see reason maybe we can get them to see folly.

What if vehicle tax was based on gross vehicle weight with exceptions for commercial and agricultural, and payment was made as part of the fuel purchased at the gasoline / diesel pump?


It pretty much already is. Fuel taxes paid are directly proportional to fuel used and fuel used is roughly proportional to vehicle weight.

This whole fuel tax question is going to be coming up in the relatively near future. As we start to use electric cars, and trust me, we will, fuel use will drop, along with fuel tax revenue.

You know what that means. The pols will be coming after us for road use tax on electricity.

I think bikes will be safe for now. Mainly because there's no money in taxing such a small group. If the US starts looking like china 30 years ago with bikes everywhere, you can damn well bet they will be after us.

For a thorough debunking of thebike tax/licence argument:

http://www.toronto.ca/budget2005/pdf/wes_translicensingcyc.PDF

Recommend it.

For a thorough debunking of thebike tax/licence argument:

http://www.toronto.ca/budget2005/pdf/wes_translicensingcyc.PDF

Recommend it.

As much as I love that link it is talking about Canada and not USA.

As much as I love that link it is talking about Canada and not USA.But there's little about it that's only applicable to Canada -- in general, the same thoughts apply to the US.

Here is another page (http://www.stlbikefed.org/Advocacy/Cyclistspaytaxestoo/tabid/150/Default.aspx) that debunks the idea that `cyclists don't pay taxes'. Granted, it's Missouri rather than {whatever state one may live in**, but again, the ideas generally apply to the entire country.

I'll pay taxes to ride on the road if I can get a refund on taxes paid on items that I don't use like schools. We could have a point of use tax using only the moneys collected to fund the project. Let's be real ... taxing and registration on bicycles is just a moronic answer to our self centered life style in this country. Wake up and smell the exhaust!

But there's little about it that's only applicable to Canada -- in general, the same thoughts apply to the US.

Here is another page (http://www.stlbikefed.org/Advocacy/Cyclistspaytaxestoo/tabid/150/Default.aspx) that debunks the idea that `cyclists don't pay taxes'. Granted, it's Missouri rather than {whatever state one may live in**, but again, the ideas generally apply to the entire country.

Another good link, thanks. But the rub is that while I would guess generally there are similarities between states and between countries every state in the US handles highway funding differently and just being different can be enough ammo for those who don't want to hear that we might possibly be paying our own way.

Hmm, how does a tax make sense? Bikers cut down on air pulution and get excersize, the government should give us tax BREAKS definently not Taxes lol

taxes: #1 strawman thrown up by motorists who don't like sharing the road. It's a pretty ignorant argument, and has been rebutted many many times in the past in several different mediums. It's not really even worth arguing over anymore.

Yeah, and i bet every cager that takes the time to write in to the editor thinks they're the first one to come up with it "ooo ooo ooo i have an idea!"


Hmm, how does a tax make sense? Bikers cut down on air pulution and get excersize, the government should give us tax BREAKS definently not Taxes lol

Are u sure you're only 14?

Are u sure you're only 14?

the "lol" is the dead giveaway :)

;)