Mountain Biking - Ht Vs Fs Vs St

Let's have a debate, here are the rules no flaming, this will not become a what is freeriding thread.

The question is:

What bike has the best all around function?

Hardtail
Full Suspension
Soft Tail

My vote is for Hardtail, you see them in xc, freeriding, trail riding, there are also a few people that race downhill with a hardtail.

Easy...ht, best all round function, you 'can' do anything on them and in fact they are sometimes easier to use for the really fun stuff...

The biggest advantage of a FS is the conservation of the rider...sure a hardtail can go anywhere/everywhere...but so can a FS...difference the rider will last longer...

I think for some stuff the full suspension bikes are a little bit like "cheating" ;)

by that I mean taking 4-5 ft drop on full suspension is like hoping off the sidewalk for a hardtail.

I think for some stuff the full suspension bikes are a little bit like "cheating" ;)

by that I mean taking 4-5 ft drop on full suspension is like hoping off the sidewalk for a hardtail.

Its really not that easy haha...6inches isn't that much. Most of the suspension is still leg :)

Drop a 5 on a ridged- yow.
God digs dogs.

Id have to say hardtail...you feel more in control of what the bike is capable of :)

I think a Hardtail has the best all-around function. It can be ridden anywhere, for almost any type of riding.

But, if you ask, "If you could only have ONE bike?", I'd vote for a Full Squishy!

L8R

This came up at a good time. My son and I did our second race of the season yesterday, he usually rides a ht and I ride a fs. This time we traded bikes. I had noticed that he flies on my bike when we trade on a regular ride, so I let him ride it in the race to see how he would do. He finished a strong 1st place and I think I'll be building another fs bike for myself soon hehe. I pinch flatted on the ht and finished 4th with an aching back. The old ht is FUN to ride but has it's limitations. FS bikes are less fatiguing and (on some trails) you have more and better control. Plus they climb better in technical. I spun out on 3 or 4 different climbs yesterday on the ht on places where I would normally just spin up on my fs bike.

I also have a soft tail. It's for sale if you're looking for one. We both rode it for awhile (a short while) and now the frameset is hanging in the shop waiting for someone to come along and buy it. That's my testament to st's...

Hardtails for life, buddy!

What's the difference between a softtail and FS? Surely sussers have 'soft tails'?

I'm a hardnut, as it were. I can't see myself ever riding anything that 'needs' full suspension, and since I'd use an MTB on the road if I had one, hardtail makes the most snese for me.

The biggest advantage of a FS is the conservation of the rider...sure a hardtail can go anywhere/everywhere...but so can a FS...difference the rider will last longer...

I've never ridden FS, but ive heard that the extra weight and pedal bob fatigues a rider more than the "pumeling" you take on a hardtail...is that true? i don't really know much about the FS, i love my hardtails!

I think the full suspension bike of let's say 5 years ago suffered from pedal bob. With the new technology is suspension components, that has almost be eliminated. The new inertia suspension technology almost nullifies this argument.

L8R

I've never ridden FS, but ive heard that the extra weight and pedal bob fatigues a rider more than the "pumeling" you take on a hardtail...is that true? i don't really know much about the FS, i love my hardtails!

I've rode and own both, HT and FS...riding a HT will teach you better bike-handling for sure...the bouncing and weight transfer...you've got to learn to control the bike as well as ride it...

With FS, it just smooths out the factors that you normally have to deal with in a ride...The extra weight doesn't affect me like it does others...Of course, with my bikes, the difference is just 5-6 lbs...Alot by some standards and on paper, but in the saddle, it's not bad...

Pedal bob is all a matter of what you determine it to be...My bike has a little when I stomp on the pedals in the big gears...however, I hardly ever stomp on the big gears...the trails around here don't have the room to get in em'...if you ride alot of fire road, you'll notice it, but with lockout or with this new stable platform tech, you eliminate the bob almost completely...

I love my hardtails, too...I still dig full-rigids...but at 31, I can't take the abuse...so get a shock, you're body will love you for it...

I love my fs, but I miss having a hardtail. I'm currently looking at a fully rigid steel ss, though. Going back to basics to learn what I missed by upgrading to fs too soon. I rely on my bike's ability too much.

It's obveous that hardtail is the way to go. It has so much more function, and WAY lighter. I would never buy an FS unless i had no bike at alll, and i found a really good one for cheap. And even then, i would probably sell the FS and buy a SWEEET hardtail :)

I have a short travel FS (Scalpel) and a HT (F-series)
I love the Hardtail to bits and it's barely slower than the Scalpel.
For long rides or enduros I do find the scalpel is my weapon of choice but for that short blast around the local trails the F-Seriesis way more fun.

If i could only own one bike it would be the Hardtail. Why? Because it is reliable, simple, strong, light and if I need to take the edge of it I fit a suspension seatpost. If the rear shock on my Scalpel fails then teh bike is pretty much off the road.

FS is great, but 40 lbs...you need a truck unless you live near the greenbelt..Ht are good and easy to mod for XC light DH..road swithouts.

Hardtails all the way...if you want maximum efficiency and a small weight advantage you should go for the hardtail. And you really can feel the difference...sure, you get jolted and tossed around a little more, but when you're on a hardtail it's all about the rider and not the bike.

Be one with the bike! "Feel" the bike! "Be" the bike! Go hardtail!

Oh, and you can feel the terrain a lot better, too...(on a hardtail, I mean)

FS is great, but 40 lbs...you need a truck unless you live near the greenbelt..Ht are good and easy to mod for XC light DH..road swithouts.

I am surprised to hear this from someone from Van. More than enough freeriders on 40 to 50 pound rigs ride up the mountain to their trails. You dont need a truck. Just most get lazy :)

I think it is a matter of personal preference as to what you like the best. I prefer hardtails, because a good hardtail will be a good "do all" bike, in that with my TREK 820, i have done everything from urban assualt riding(obviously not doing as big of stuff as someone else with a specialty bike) to tight whippy, fast singletrack, to light dirt jumping, to long, lung burner climbs. Which is best overall is a deeply personal preference that cannot be given a quick, simple, right answer.

Maybe we should qualify these statements by first telling what kind of bikes you have actually owned. I have some trails in flint rock country that will send you home crying to your mamma for a duallie. Then again I've ridden some sweet pine needle carpeted single track in CO where it would be a crime to ride anything but a ht. It just depends on the terrain...

Maybe we should qualify these statements by first telling what kind of bikes you have actually owned. I have some trails in flint rock country that will send you home crying to your mamma for a duallie. Then again I've ridden some sweet pine needle carpeted single track in CO where it would be a crime to ride anything but a ht. It just depends on the terrain...

Exactly. I think a person needs both. Personally my knees couldn't handle my trails on a ht full time (I found this out last year)...it can be done, and done well...but a dually will help my body last longer and go bigger (pure mental thing, I have more confidence on a dually)...

Any bike CAN do anything on any terrain. Depends on the rider and the goals. I don't have a tonne of money, I am just a damn good shopper and lucky enough to own a bmx, ht and a dually (mid travel).

Oh, and you can feel the terrain a lot better, too...(on a hardtail, I mean)

Thats really a matter of perception. When you get used to how a dually reacts underneath you, you know how the terrain feels. It isn't actually dulled.

wtf...wait a sec SOFT tail!? Why would anyone have rear suspension...but a non-suspension fork? i've never seen that before.

wtf...wait a sec SOFT tail!? Why would anyone have rear suspension...but a non-suspension fork? i've never seen that before.

Soft-tails are simply bikes with limited simpler rear suspension. Some of these may not even have linkages or pivots at all. some really on material flex. Many of these bikes do have suspension forks. Some don't and use something like a flex-stem to achieve front end suspension. Admittedly this setup is rather rare these days and I personally don't know of any current bikes being sold with flexstems. One of the earliest successful susepnsion mountainbikes were the ProFlex bikes which used a flexstem and elastomer sprung rear end. They had a scant 1" to 1-1/2" of suspension and by today's standards would probably be considered soft-tails however they really helped to usher in the full-suspension era.

wtf...wait a sec SOFT tail!? Why would anyone have rear suspension...but a non-suspension fork? i've never seen that before.

You've never seen a rigid?...I used to commute on one. My gf's uncle rode some of the toughest trails in the world on one. You should try and find one sometime. You will see how much faster and easier a REALLY rough trail is with a bit of suspension. Best thing that ever happened to my wrists were suspension...and the my knees...suspension. I would love to be able to be pure ht pride...but my body can't take it on these trails :)

someone post a pic....i've never seen one before!

someone post a pic....i've never seen one before!

Here's me and my old 1990 Nishiki Ariel (no front suspension... no rear suspension, 4130 cro-mo frame with e-stays and 4130 straight-bladed fork, full 7sp Shimano DeoreDX group)... I apologise for the poor picture quality. This picture was taken back in 1990.

http://www.neebu.net/~khuon/images/cycling/bikes/Nishiki-Ariel.gif

At the time, I really wanted an Alien ACX but it was out of my price range.

http://www.firstflightbikes.com/_borders/AlienACX.JPG

http://www.konaworld.com/kw_index.cfm

Also search for the khs rigid one. These are 2 newer bikes built without suspension. These are considered big bmx bikes, but back in the day that is all people rode :)

Well, I would say HT, because, I have done 1 foot drops both on an HT and an FS and I found that fs does better, HOWEVER, ht gives one more control and speed with it's lighter weight, and also, it is USUALLY cheaper to get parts, and there are USUALLY less parts to replace. Also, it seems now that I ride an FS, more energy is required to propel forward. It seems as though that the FS is a more solid slower bike, while the HT is a lightning fast but less solid bike. I like FAST. I vote HT!

I think that HTs have the most function but FS provide a more pleasant ride. HTs are lighter and (if used properly) are just as strong as most FS xc/fr rigs (not DH). However, I think that in the long run, a FS would feel better. I ride HT or rigid. Most of the guys I ride with have ditched suspension forks long ago and are just as fast as other HT or FS riders around(if not faster). However, it's funny to watch them afterwards when they can't open a beer=)

someone post a pic....i've never seen one before!

KHS sells them still. They have a single speed soft tail, and two geared soft tails. They used to sell a cyclocross soft tail, but I only see the frame available now. I know a guy that rides them,and loves them.

http://www.khsbicycles.com/04-comp-st-web.jpg

I was going to post a picture, but the manage attachments button is not working in my browser.

edit: I got it

Really depends. I guess if I had to choose, I'd probably go with a hardtail. In reality, I have both. I rarely ride my dual suspension except when I want to get technical. I'll take my full squishy out and hit some jumps and just generally haul ass everywhere because it gives me insane amounts of confidence. I've been riding hardtails for years, and I've developed an interesting riding style because of it. Even riding dual suspensions I take the smoothest line. I haven't found a good dual suspension bike that feels as efficient as a hardtail just yet. I'm a sprinter, and a hardtail allows me to do that efficiently. I like to climb out of the saddle most of the time, and sprint. So most of the time I'll ride my hardtail, but when I go out looking to "freeride" it's my dual suspension all the way. But there's something pure about hauling ass down a smooth trail on a hardtail... something just feels right about it.

Jim, you just made me want to ride my bike. That is exactly how I look at it (although with dh trails just outside my door I probably spend as much time on my ht as my dually...)

i went from riding a bmx for 2 years to an FS.... and im madly in love with the FS.. ive ridden hard tail, bmx, full suspension.. my personal fav is the FS.. just so awesome good... but its hard to bunny hop well on... ill just have to practice :)


also, when i switched over to have 24 speeds, i was amazed at how fast i got lazy...even when im just biking to a friends house or what ever, im constantly switching gears and being tired... but when i had my single speed BMX, i never had that...ha..weird.

go back to the single speed! shima-NO!!!

hahaha.. a one speed MTB would be funny..not good for hill climbs though.

Thats really a matter of perception. When you get used to how a dually reacts underneath you, you know how the terrain feels. It isn't actually dulled.

Yeah, that's just me advocating for hardtails from my own personal preference. Actually, I haven't ridden any DH or freeride bikes...I'm comparing the hardtails to FS-XC bikes I've ridden.

hahaha.. a one speed MTB would be funny..not good for hill climbs though.

the chief mechanic at my FBS raced XC on a singlespeed fully rigid MTB. He blew people away on the climbs actually. It was the downhills where people were flying by him because he had to pick cleaner lines. He finished smak-dab in the middle of the pack for his class.

I am surprised to hear this from someone from Van. More than enough freeriders on 40 to 50 pound rigs ride up the mountain to their trails. You dont need a truck. Just most get lazy :)

I've seen many bikes in trucks, depends how far- I built an under 20 lbs bike BECAUSE I ride to, @ and home.
Vancouver is not on Vancouver Island, are you REALLY in Whistler? You should know that.

Yes I am really in Whistler...obviously if we are going to squamish or something we would never ride our bikes (that would be death)

Whistler has a shuttle, it gets used. But everyone I know on the shore rides up...that was more my example :)

My last bike was a FS, and man I hated it. Couldn't do any technical stuff, too heavy for it... also, it was a pain when riding around town as well. I flat out refuse to go back to a FS.

It is not a real bike unless it has 8" of suspension travel! j/k. I have both and hmmmm the HT does not see much use anymore.

For me I enjoy haulingass down the mountain. I hate riding up.

My last bike was a FS, and man I hated it. Couldn't do any technical stuff, too heavy for it... also, it was a pain when riding around town as well. I flat out refuse to go back to a FS.

I wouldn't say I want to ditch my FS bike but I will have to admit that I miss my old fully rigid. I may be holding onto nostalgia though but I think my next MTB will definately be a premium HT.

I must not be nostalgiac at all. I prefer my dually on 80% of the trails I ride. I am quicker, more confident and generally enjoy the ride much more.

but then again I would rather be able to ride full speed on a technical dh section then walk it and walking up is fun :D

personally, i love my FS... its a bit heavy, but i can deal with it.

Yes I am really in Whistler...obviously if we are going to squamish or something we would never ride our bikes (that would be death)

Whistler has a shuttle, it gets used. But everyone I know on the shore rides up...that was more my example :)

Do they let you use the chair lifts to take the bikes up ski hills?
Saw some N-Shore vid and the guys were taking the bikes up and doing trails.
Shure whould beat riding up.
I was just bugging about the Van thing, I get to Whistler when the band I do multi-media for does a show.
I'll P.M when we go next and maybe we'll have a pint.
peace.J