Foo - Why? Because Microsoft today reminds me of GM in 1987.

And we all know that ended badly.

So, MSFT fans, hold onto your F-ing hats (http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/102774/Microsoft-Windows-The-Beginning-of-the-End;_ylt=AoDMKYeI9F2_7KyW5I8P539k7ot4?tickers=msft,aapl,amzn).

I had to sell my hat.

MSFT fans[/URL].

Does not compute.

What's worse is that Windows 7 is a yawner. It shows some better device compatibility and some ways of organizing files, but there isn't anything killer about it, like there was with Windows 95 (new UI and lots of new toys), or Windows 2000 (true 32 bit apps, no more DOS shell.) The under the hood bug fixes are appreciated, but Joe User isn't going to upgrade his OS just for that.

MS needs to stop making products to make this quarter's sales numbers and do some research on stuff that pays off in the longer term.

Mircosoft is diversified in enough different markets, consumer, enterprise, and now the carrier space with contracts with the phone incumbents for IPTV. Sure they may lose some space in the PC market, but people have be predicting that for years. Not anthing really new here.

And we all know that ended badly.

So, MSFT fans, hold onto your F-ing hats (http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/102774/Microsoft-Windows-The-Beginning-of-the-End;_ylt=AoDMKYeI9F2_7KyW5I8P539k7ot4?tickers=msft,aapl,amzn).

Now you're a fanboy. Congratulations.

I can see where they're going with that article. It's a Chicken Little.

Netbooks are a relatively new platform, and they do satisfy the needs for many home and basic users. I even recommend them to some people who have a tight hold on their budget. However, there are a few critical points that they are not considering:



Using Windows XP on a netbook offers satisfactory performance, and is still more compelling than Ubuntu at the moment,
OS X cannot run on a netbook without a lot of adjustments (though they probably could do it, since they were able to modify OS X for iPhone), and
Even if the point above is true, Microsoft has Windows XP for Fundamental PCs, which can be used as a base to create a netbook-compatibile operating system.



It's expected that their monopoly would wane, considering that many alternatives are available now and are gaining some market momentum. However, it'll be a LONG way and a GREAT innovation before someone lays the stake in that heart.

I honestly think Ubuntu has a greater chance of overtaking Windows than OS X does, since they can capture the corporate sector easier than Apple will allow themselves to (it is Debian after all). If Apple were to go corporate, that would require a huge culture shift that may not be compatible with their status quo.

Also, don't forget that Microsoft also has a monopoly in another market: office products. Windows might go away, but there needs to be a platform that will run Outlook and support Exchange. At this moment, it would take corporations years to migrate to a platform similar to Exchange, with less reliability and probably greater complexity. Let's face it folks; there is no product out there that can compare with the Office Suite. OpenOffice might have been a competitor to Office 2003, but Office 2007 trumps that in spades.

It's media presence, in the grand scheme of things, is negligible. Microsoft, in my opinion, is a business company, so unless they change their focus a bit, they will never fully understand the media market for what it should be. Which is fine, since the bulk of their revenue stream is safe right now.

Mircosoft is diversified in enough different markets, consumer, enterprise, and now the carrier space

Oh no they're not. That's their CORE (hard core) business, and it's broken dude. Just like GM's was in 1988 or so, even though it appeared healthy in many respects.

Stay tuned. And remember that if somebody told you that GM would be on the bring of going belly friggin up 20 years hence in 1988, they would have told you that you were insane. Here's the difference: it may well be too late for GM. It's certainly not too late for MSFT. But in many ways, MSFT's challenges are far more daunting than GM's were prior to 1990. But I think they can turn this around, they have a lot of smart people at that company, no matter how silly all you Windows boys may be.

Are you kidding? Office 2007 SUCKS like no other. I hate it. It's installed on all the computers on campus and I hate using it. I hate the new GUI. It sucks. I hate the auto-formatting. It sucks and it's harder than hell to turn it off. Give me office 97 any day. GOD I hate office 2007.

Forget MS Office and X Box. Get real. No Windows OS success, no MSFT.

Forget MS Office and X Box. Get real. No Windows OS success, no MSFT.

Windows can't die without an alternative to Outlook, Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Access (in that order).

XBox, on the other hand, is forgettable.

Are you kidding? Office 2007 SUCKS like no other. I hate it. It's installed on all the computers on campus and I hate using it. I hate the new GUI. It sucks. I hate the auto-formatting. It sucks and it's harder than hell to turn it off. Give me office 97 any day. GOD I hate office 2007.

As one senior developer noted, some people need to be dragged "kicking and screaming" into change. Based on many people who've used the platform extensively (myself included), it was a change for the better.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, though.

Windows can't die without an alternative to Outlook, Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Access (in that order).

Yup. There's a replacement for that. It's called OpenOffice and it's free.

Yup. There's a replacement for that. It's called OpenOffice and it's free.

For home users, it's passable. For corporations, it's a complete tour de fail.

Windows can't die without an alternative to Outlook, Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Access (in that order).

XBox, on the other hand, is forgettable.

So is this year's World Series, if the lowest in 10+ years ratings are any indication.

And we all know that ended badly.

So, MSFT fans, hold onto your F-ing hats (http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/102774/Microsoft-Windows-The-Beginning-of-the-End;_ylt=AoDMKYeI9F2_7KyW5I8P539k7ot4?tickers=msft,aapl,amzn).

This is what you get when you have business people who don't know much about technology. Microsoft knows that Windows is on the outs. It's an outdated way to compute. The next OS is sitting in the clouds (http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/100208-microsoft-cloud-os.html).

I hope, for your sake, that Steve (Jobs that is) is also taking notice. I'm sure he is...

Oh no they're not. That's their CORE (hard core) business, and it's broken dude. Just like GM's was in 1988 or so, even though it appeared healthy in many respects.

Stay tuned. And remember that if somebody told you that GM would be on the bring of going belly friggin up 20 years hence in 1988, they would have told you that you were insane. Here's the difference: it may well be too late for GM. It's certainly not too late for MSFT. But in many ways, MSFT's challenges are far more daunting than GM's were prior to 1990. But I think they can turn this around, they have a lot of smart people at that company, no matter how silly all you Windows boys may be.

Really? If I go to the local college, I will see a pretty even distribution of Mac's and PC's. However in the the cooperate world I rarely see Mac's and if I do it is typically at a newspaper or graphic design shop. In the carrier and server market Mac's doesn't exist, where Microsoft does.

I think OS X is great however as we learned with Betamax the better technology doesn't always win. Don't see many Tuckers around either.

Oh and I can finally afford APPL stock but not their notebooks :D

So is this year's World Series, if the lowest in 10+ years ratings are any indication.

I blame FOX

I blame FOX

Me too. For everything.

since they can capture the corporate sector easier than Apple will allow themselves to

Incorrect.


(it is Debian after all).

Incorrect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X#History)

Me too. For everything.

:lol: good to see we can agree on something.

There is one thing though... MS is having competition in every segment now that it plays in, except for Exchange and Active Directory where there is just nothing that can come close. Netbooks are attacking it from the low end of the PC range. From the upper end computers, Macs and OS X. Server side, RedHat, SUSE, and as stated, Ubuntu are rivals.

Even with devices, Windows Mobile is excellent, but the iPhone has set a price ceiling on those types of devices. Few are going to pay $600 for a phone when they can get something that is popular and has tons of support for $400 at the ceiling.

Office is also a strong mainstay for MS. Mainly because its the standard, and people buy and use it so they don't run into strange incompatibilities or formatting glitches that occurr sometimes when you import into OpenOffice. Also, you can't push out OpenOffice installs en masse via MOM or other mass tools, which makes MS Office arguably the only game in town for businesses with many machines.

I think its good MS is pushing into cloud computing, but this is yet another IT "fad" like Javastations, XStations, etc. I don't like cloud computing because of security concerns. When you lose physical possession of critical data, you have to trust completely the cloud provider that they won't have employees that can be bribed or coerced to allow someone to access or modify stuff. Encryption front ends help here, but its better to limit physical access and access methods and have encryption be the last resort of security, protecting the data after the machine falls into the wrong hands.

Iphones will be $99 within 6-8 months, and may possibly appear @ Verizon in a CDMA version.

So is this year's World Series, if the lowest in 10+ years ratings are any indication.

Seriously? I wonder why that is...

Iphones will be $99 within 6-8 months, and may possibly appear @ Verizon in a CDMA version.

Not sure, seems like that would be a conflict with the new Blackberry Storm. If the Iphones do hit 99 bucks I may have to get one :D

Incorrect.



Incorrect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X#History)

I call incorrect on both of your incorrects.

Ubuntu is a Debian port, and Red Hat has gained momentum on the corporate sector as has SuSE, but Ubuntu is arguably the most user-friendly Linux distro out there, and can be modified nicely to make a good corporate OS.

Seriously? I wonder why that is...

The Phillies, who nobody cares about, played the Tampa Ray Wombats. I think Tampa Bay is in Mississippi, but I'm not sure.

I call incorrect on both of your incorrects.

Ubuntu is a Debian port, and Red Hat has gained momentum on the corporate sector as has SuSE, but Ubuntu is arguably the most user-friendly Linux distro out there, and can be modified nicely to make a good corporate OS.

Corporate IT departments will not do a mass roll out of an OS that is not commercially supported. There will be targeted server applications that are supported in small scale in some Linux variety by some vendors to some extent. But never to the degree that a company's own flavor of UNIX is. (See IBM (AIX), HP (HP/UX, SUN (Solaris), etc.) Not only do these companies control the quality and the harware support on their own OS, they're also making money on it. Mission critical apps and mass deployments (i.e. desktops) will not running be Linux any time soon in corporate America.

Trust me on this one, I've been out of school (and in the business) for a long time.

Also, your note seems to imply that OSX is Debian, which is of course not true. If I read that wrong, then I'm sorry. (I know that's not allowed on BF)

There is one thing though... MS is having competition in every segment now that it plays in, except for Exchange and Active Directory where there is just nothing that can come close. Netbooks are attacking it from the low end of the PC range. From the upper end computers, Macs and OS X. Server side, RedHat, SUSE, and as stated, Ubuntu are rivals.

If Microsoft and Steve Ballmer are the smart entities that they supposedly are, they might already have some tricks under their sleeve. I just don't see Microsoft losing on the netbook front, though I do see Linux gaining a lot from it, since that's one of its specialties. I think that a major reason why Windows servers are predominant in the first place is to make the administration of Windows PCs easier. Without Windows, Windows Server will probably suffer as well.


Even with devices, Windows Mobile is excellent, but the iPhone has set a price ceiling on those types of devices. Few are going to pay $600 for a phone when they can get something that is popular and has tons of support for $400 at the ceiling.

iPhone will crush Windows Mobile in due time. When it's price reaches the sweet spot (which it will; the $600 price for entry was just the introductory rate), it's game over for pretty much everything except BlackberryOS. Their Storm product might be enticing enough to give Apple a run for its money, especially given the recent transition of youths going to Blackberry.


Office is also a strong mainstay for MS. Mainly because its the standard, and people buy and use it so they don't run into strange incompatibilities or formatting glitches that occurr sometimes when you import into OpenOffice. Also, you can't push out OpenOffice installs en masse via MOM or other mass tools, which makes MS Office arguably the only game in town for businesses with many machines.

On top of that, OpenOffice doesn't work as intuitively as Office does. It's kind of like comparing GIMP with Photoshop. Depending on the kind of work you do, GIMP might suffice, but for anything that even hints touching the advanced, Photoshop is the way to go. OpenOffice Calc has a fatal limitation with its maximum spreadsheet size, and its formulas don't import directly. Impress is a joke compared to Powerpoint. Write is okay, but formula writing support sucks and there are a host of other issues that just make Word the better choice (like layout).

Corporate IT departments will not do a mass roll out of an OS that is not commercially supported. There will be targeted server applications that are supported in small scale in some Linux variety by some vendors to some extent. But never to the degree that a company's own flavor of UNIX is. (See IBM (AIX), HP (HP/UX, SUN (Solaris), etc.) Not only do these companies control the quality and the harware support on their own OS, they're also making money on it. Mission critical apps and mass deployments (i.e. desktops) will not running be Linux any time soon in corporate America.

Trust me on this one, I've been out of school (and in the business) for a long time.

Also, your note seems to imply that OSX is Debian, which is of course not true. If I read that wrong, then I'm sorry. (I know that's not allowed on BF)

Sorry if I implied that. I would indeed sound pretty dumb if I tried to make a link between OS X and Debian. Dell is rolling out systems with Ubuntu on it. On top of that, what prevents the possibility of a large corporate petitioning for a distribution similar to Ubuntu, if not the crown jewels itself, that will be commercially backed?

I would really like to see Ubuntu hit the corporate sector. That will definitely give me more of a reason to not work and try and crack the system to give me superuser rights. :-D

what prevents the possibility of a large corporate petitioning for a distribution similar to Ubuntu, if not the crown jewels itself, that will be commercially backed?

Since no vendor 'owns' it, they're not going to be able to make enough money on it to support it. It takes scale. It would take most every company out there getting together and deciding on one flavor to get enough critical mass for some vendor to support it.

Red Hat has tried to be in the model you propose, but has only had success in limited size and specialized deployments like high performance computing.

In the meantime, business will largely be run on proprietary OSs and flavors of UNIX on the server end, and either Windows or Mac on the desktop.

I'm out.

Hmmm... Apple Fanboi posting trash about Microsoft....

Riiiight

He doesn't know that Microsoft owns him. His resistance only fuels the assimilation.

He doesn't know this. Yet.

Hmmm... Apple Fanboi posting trash about Microsoft....

Riiiight

You'll see.

Short sighted Windows drones that you are. And ehidle up there is a short sighted Windows/GOP drone, which is far, far more pathetic.

You'll see.

Short sighted Windows drones that you are. And ehidle up there is a short sighted Windows/GOP drone, which is far, far more pathetic.

It is people like you that destroy the political process.

It is people like you that destroy the political process.

Another insightful, analytical, intelligent and incisive conclusion that can only be attained by a Great Leap. Congratulations, the RNC needs brilliant young minds like yours to help guide them with their Palin/Christian Coalition Future.

That won't end well for them. Yet another parallel with GM in 1987. You had to be there. It wasn't so hard to see coming either. Oh boy. Not at all.

Another insightful, analytical, intelligent and incisive conclusion that can only be attained by a Great Leap.

Yeah, just like "ehidle up there is a short-sighted Windows/GOP drone..."

Great, so now can we move this thread to P&R where it belongs?

Yeah, just like "ehidle up there is a short-sighted Windows/GOP drone..."

Great, so now can we move this thread to P&R where it belongs?

Why are you so grumpy? How do my smart ass posts 'destroy the political process'? Do you even understand what the political process is? That's where candidates run for office and we go vote for them. You can do that next Tuesday, if you're 18 years old I mean.

last things MSFT did that was good:

windows 2003 enterprise
windows xp
office 2003

all others failed harder. these 3 failed least.

They're coming out with a new version of Windows in a few months, I really do hope they get this one straightened out for many reasons. A Windows that is divided against itself cannot stand. And I don't think that helps anybody. Well, it helps Apple. But we Apple fans are actually better off it there's more competition for the OS and products we support. Because right now it's a little ridiculous.

last things MSFT did that was good:

windows 2003 enterprise
windows xp
office 2003

all others failed harder. these 3 failed least.Your idea of "good" is, quite frankly, frightening.

last things MSFT did that was good:

windows 2003 enterprise
windows xp
office 2003

all others failed harder. these 3 failed least.

I think the newest office is better than any other version...EVER.

I think the newest office is better than any other version...EVER.

Especially since they changed the universally recognized "Italic" and "Bold" to "Emphasize" and "Stronger"

*sigh*

Especially since they changed the universally recognized "Italic" and "Bold" to "Emphasize" and "Stronger"

*sigh*

WTF are you talking about?

I and B still look the same to me.

Ctr-I and ctr-b still work the same to me.

There is so much more in office '07 that goes so far beyond simple formatting that if all you notice is some semantic changes than your opinion doesn't matter much to me.

You'll get there...

You'll get there...

Typical conservative. Scared of a little change.

I kept reading these amazing rants vs. the new Office for Mac from Excel users who were bent about some feature MSFT took out of the program. I like office, particularly Entourage.

Typical conservative. Scared of a little change.

I'm a conservative and I love change, change that are proven to work, being a guinea pig for new ideas doesn't jive well with me.

You'll get there...

But then he'll be where you are, and who the F wants to get there?