Recreational & Family - Step thru bike - why does it have to be women's?

Some of the new bike designs for comfort ride include a very low step-thru. For reasons I never understand, it is labelled as a women's bike even though it rides and feels the same as the male counterpart. Moveover, they are extremely convienent to get in and out. I think all bikes should design it this way rather than separating into men's and women's. Your thought?

I rode my sister's bike after wearing mine out.
Her bike never complained.

It's tradition but becoming less so.

You may or may not know that that "women's" frame was designed so that a lady could ride a bicycle while wearing a dress or skirt. It also allowed for easier mounting as you have noted. A later frame style known as mixte is kind of an intermediate step between a "men's" and "women's" frame. The mixte style (minus the extra seat stays) is very similar in form to todays compact frames. The women's frames seem to be more commonly called "step-through" now.

The step-through frames are inherently weaker than men's frames. This is due to the weak main triangle. The mixte overcomes this weakness.

The step-through frames typically have a more relaxed geometry which are fine for casual riding. They can do longer distance riding but not as comfortably or as efficiently as other dedicated frames (road, touring, fitness, racing, etc). Comfort is somewhat subjective however, in that some find anything but a more upright riding position to be uncomfortable.

If you don't plan on doing long, hard, fast distances a step through will do ya fine.

I only disagree with your last statement "I think all bikes should design it this way......" because not everyone likes/wants the same thing. I do not think any frame style should be discontinued.

The Women's/Men's bikes is/was just a marketing term. You see a lot of people riding step through framed bikes nowadays. It all depends on the bikes projected uses. If you do a lot of shopping and/or carrying your kid in a rear rack seat, step through frames is what is more practical for easy on and off and keeping the load balanced.

Just look at this picture from Japan. You can count on one hand the number of "men's bikes"...they don't seem to have a men vs women bike distinction:
http://i.pbase.com/o6/43/632843/1/77269927.oxvSQ2uL.Japan2075Medium.jpg

It all depends on what you want to use your bike for or what works best for you. There's no shame nor should there be. Buy whatever you want and enjoy the ride.

The Women's/Men's bikes is/was just a marketing term. You see a lot of people riding step through framed bikes nowadays. It all depends on the bikes projected uses. If you do a lot of shopping and/or carrying your kid in a rear rack seat, step through frames is what is more practical for easy on and off and keeping the load balanced.

Just look at this picture from Japan. You can count on one hand the number of "men's bikes"...they don't seem to have a men vs women bike distinction:
http://i.pbase.com/o6/43/632843/1/77269927.oxvSQ2uL.Japan2075Medium.jpg

It all depends on what you want to use your bike for or what works best for you. There's no shame nor should there be. Buy whatever you want and enjoy the ride.

+1

Japan has so many neat things going on in their society. They organize far better than we do. You can see in the pic that they have gobs of bike racks that are well maintained and always full. I wish I had some of my pix of the bike parking areas around the train stations. Not nearly as orderly as this pic but kind of amazing to see that many bikes. Most of those bikes look like those near mixte frames without the extra stays. There are one or two that are step through with a curved top tube. The first bike you can see in fully in your pic has that always so neat integrated lock on the rear wheel. It essentially is bolted to the frame and you close the circular lock to secure it. Simply unlock it and open the gap in the lock so that the wheel can turn. Simple and effective. Very low bicycle crime in Japan, or at least that was so when I was there many years ago.

These bikes (http://www.biria.com/) are easy step through and aren't listed as mens or womens. They have no gender. :rolleyes:

I ride a Mixte, and I also ride a U-frame single speed bike, and I’m a male… I think the attitudes about bicycle gender assignment are changing slowly over the years. I see a lot of men riding step through frames around town… as stated; they have some distinct advantages over the Diamond frames sometimes.

There are a couple other threads talking about this subject in C&V and the General forum sections, and there have been many threads about Male vs. Female bikes, in the B.F. achieves.

I think the next bicycle I buy will most likely be a U-frame City bike of some kind… I have became very used to being able to get on and off my bike with little effort, and I like it. Even with my artificial left hip, and my arthritic right hip… :)

One of my rides is a folding bike (Dahon Vitesse). It is a low top tube bike (as are most folding bikes), and it is a very convenient design. Ride what you like!

"... step through frames have some advantages over a diamond frame ..." Heck, if you're too chicken mention the biggest advantage, I will! With a step through frame, a guy is less likely to crack the "family jewels"!

Bikes are gender neutral, ride what you like and what is comfy for you.

These bikes (http://www.biria.com/) are easy step through and aren't listed as mens or womens. They have no gender. :rolleyes:



I agree that a U fram is much more practical/comfortable for general use... Those bike you included the pictures of look good... I was looking at them... What bothered me though is those frames are aluminum and I find it hard to believe there won't be "fatigue" fractures at the bottom of the frames.. Be nice to hear from someone that has ridden one for awhile..

Unless a person is wearing a skirt and does not want to show off the undies, any bike style can be ridden by any one.

Its not like it makes you more of a man to have that toptube 1/4" from your naughty bits. Really, if a man was a real MAN, they would require more room perhaps. Hmm? Who is laughing now big boy?

jim

I agree that a U fram is much more practical/comfortable for general use... Those bike you included the pictures of look good... I was looking at them... What bothered me though is those frames are aluminum and I find it hard to believe there won't be "fatigue" fractures at the bottom of the frames.. Be nice to hear from someone that has ridden one for awhile..For a given weight, a diamond frame bike should be stronger and stiffer than a step-through bike. For a given level of strength and stiffness, a diamond frame bike should be lighter than a step-through bike. However, for most riders in most conditions, the frames are strong enough and stiff enough, and make up a small enough fraction of the total weight, that it doesn't really matter.

Rans Fusion Step Through
http://www.ransbikes.com/FusionST.htm#

Considering the male anatomy, this bike gender framework never made sense...

The mixte rules!!

The step-through frames typically have a more relaxed geometry which are fine for casual riding. They can do longer distance riding but not as comfortably or as efficiently as other dedicated frames (road, touring, fitness, racing, etc). Comfort is somewhat subjective however, in that some find anything but a more upright riding position to be uncomfortable.

If you don't plan on doing long, hard, fast distances a step through will do ya fine.

I only disagree with your last statement "I think all bikes should design it this way......" because not everyone likes/wants the same thing. I do not think any frame style should be discontinued.

It all depends of what you call a "steptrough". There semms to be a lot of opinions about this. Is a mixte a steptrough? A mixte is not the easyest bike to mount.

The three black frames is stronger than the red one (black w pink fork looks like the red but is different), and none of them is relaxed" in my opinion. More relaxed feeling if northroad bars instead of drops.

It all depends of what you call a "steptrough". There semms to be a lot of opinions about this. Is a mixte a steptrough? A mixte is not the easyest bike to mount.

The three black frames is stronger than the red one (black w pink fork looks like the red but is different), and none of them is relaxed" in my opinion. More relaxed feeling if northroad bars instead of drops.

Agreed, step-through is a loose term but accurate enough to convey the idea of a sloped or lowered top tube. In my mind, mixte and step-through are two separate ideas with step-through being a generic description, while mixte is a specific frame style.

Agreed that mixte is not the "easiest" to mount it is certainly easier than a traditional road frame and the compact frames.

I do think that the step-throughs and mixte generally are more relaxed than their road brethren. They are not near as relaxed as the comfort and crank forward bikes like the Rans. The head and seat tube angles are on the mixte and step-throughs are typically shallower and they have longer chainstays. They also usually come with wider rims for mounting wider tires. These bikes are generally built with the casual ride in mind. I did not say rider but ride. The late estimable Sheldon Brown owned and rode a few in his lifetime and he was a very serious biker.

I bought one of these things NOS for under $200. They called it a "Universal" or unisex frame in 2005. I notice the same style frame is labeled "women's" this year.

It's admittedly weird, but the SRAM Dual Drive and the other "Schwinn Select Dealer" component mix intrigued me. I've put a thousand miles or so on it on rail trails, MUPs and commuting. Sometimes, I feel real Frederina, but, all in all, it's been fun. I've got Schwalbe Marathons, fenders, a rack, and a trunk bag on it. My most surprising experience was being mistaken for a cop.....

I agree that a U fram is much more practical/comfortable for general use... Those bike you included the pictures of look good... I was looking at them... What bothered me though is those frames are aluminum and I find it hard to believe there won't be "fatigue" fractures at the bottom of the frames.. Be nice to hear from someone that has ridden one for awhile..

This has been a VERY helpful thread to me.

I'm wondering about the strength of these frames as well. Mainly because my GF is looking for a new bike, and I think a comfort bike would be best for her. I think much like myself, she’ll spend most of her time riding in the city along paved lakeshore paths, or forest reserves, etc for exercise. I may take her out to do some mountain biking from time to time, but nothing overly technical and full of rocks, stumps, or jumps. Neither of us will be doing any hardcore downhill riding in Colorado or anything like that. In all honesty, we might take 2 or 3 trips in a summer where she would really even need to be taking it off of a paved path.

For that reason, I’ve been thinking she should get a comfort bike. The reality is, she probably will be doing little Mountain Biking, but at least it will give her the option to do some, if she chooses. I don’t know that she’ll get into hardcore road biking either. I think a comfort bike would be good enough to enjoy riding primarily in the city and will be nice to have the upright position and the extra suspension of a comfort bike.

I was thinking that one of these two bikes may be a good fit:

Link to Navigator 3.0 WSD:
http://www.trekbikes.com/women/wsd_products/bikes/bike_path/navigator30wsd/

7300 WSD:
http://www.trekbikes.com/women/wsd_products/bikes/bike_path/7300wsd/

So does anyone else have some input on frame strength for these? I'd hate to have her by something that has a greater potential to crack.

I was thinking that one of these two bikes may be a good fit:

Link to Navigator 3.0 WSD:
http://www.trekbikes.com/women/wsd_products/bikes/bike_path/navigator30wsd/

7300 WSD:
http://www.trekbikes.com/women/wsd_products/bikes/bike_path/7300wsd/

So does anyone else have some input on frame strength for these? I'd hate to have her by something that has a greater potential to crack.

New frames typically have a lifetime warranty, so you won't need to worry about having to pay to replace if there is a frame problem. You may be worrying about injuries that could result from a frame failure. If that is the case, there is not much you can do. However, I can tell you that frame failures are extremely rare, at least in the name brand bikes, and I suspect the same is true for the off-brand and Xmart bikes.

I would not worry about the frame failing, you have a greater chance of having a car accident.

Dr. Alex Moulton made a seminal study of bicycles beginning in the mid-1950s. Early on he generated three fundamental questions: 1) Why are the wheels the size they are? 2) Why don't bicycles have suspension? 3) Why does the frame have a high cross bar?

The rest, as they say, is history (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/41107279_aa440badb4.jpg?v=0).

tcs

Check out the utility cycling forum here. If you have loaded racks or a baby seat it is much easier to mount a step through than a traditional "men's" frame. Nobody wants to kick a leg over a bunch of loaded packs and bags on a bike, nor does anyone want to give a bike seated babt a kick in the head. There are many uses for a step through frame. Here in the U.S. we tend to design bikes toward what works in racing. Other places will design bikes for the workplace and real world use.

Considering the male anatomy, this bike gender framework never made sense...

Remember, when the basic design of the bicycle was established, in Europe and America women generally wore long, full skirts.

There are also difference in the proportions between a man's and a woman's body--length of limb relative to torso, etc.--that even a woman who normally wears trousers (and therefore has no objection to swinging her leg over the frame) might find riding a man's bike problematic. I've seen ads for diamond-framed "women's" bikes--that is, built to accomodate a woman's proportions rather than a man's; and, likewise, for cargo bikes where there might be lots of baggage on the rear rack, some men like a step-through frame.

Dr. Alex Moulton made a seminal study of bicycles beginning in the mid-1950s. Early on he generated three fundamental questions: 1) Why are the wheels the size they are? 2) Why don't bicycles have suspension? 3) Why does the frame have a high cross bar?

The rest, as they say, is history (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/41107279_aa440badb4.jpg?v=0).

tcs

:roflmao2::roflmao2::lol:
I'm sorry, but to me those look like something a clown in a circus might ride.

I'm sorry, but to me those look like something a clown in a circus might ride.

Children will make fun of a really neat, interesting kid who would be fun to know because s/he "looks different".

tcs

I’ve said it before in other threads… But, I wish that bicycle companies would bring out a “Man Sized” step through frame bicycle. I have no problem with bike companies making WSD diamond frame bikes, or WSD step through bikes… So, why can’t they make a MSD (Male Specific Design) step through frame bike. I speak only for us aging baby boomers, but I think a more user friendly frame design would have a place in the bicycle market, for those of us aging males that, either have mobility problems, or just get sick of hiking our legs up and over a seat, or center bar all day long when we are riding around town.

The Mixte I ride is a 19 ½ inch frame, and the step through frame single speed bike I ride is a 19 inch frame, which is barely within the size limits for someone my size (six feet tall), and it’s more the exception than the rule… I would like to see an American bicycle distributor offer a step through frame in a 22 to 27 inch range for a full groan man. A few bicycle companies are starting to cater to older males with some of their comfort bike designs, but many still have a long way to go. I like Fuji’s ideas, at least for the most part they call a step though frame, a step through frame, and not automatically a woman’s frame. The frames Fuji call women’s frames are ironically almost all diamond frame designs. It’s time for the outdated bicycle design gender assignment to die, once and for all… It’s lived far beyond the point of common sense nowadays. JMHO

Remember, when the basic design of the bicycle was established, in Europe and America women generally wore long, full skirts.

There are also difference in the proportions between a man's and a woman's body--length of limb relative to torso, etc.--that even a woman who normally wears trousers (and therefore has no objection to swinging her leg over the frame) might find riding a man's bike problematic. I've seen ads for diamond-framed "women's" bikes--that is, built to accomodate a woman's proportions rather than a man's; and, likewise, for cargo bikes where there might be lots of baggage on the rear rack, some men like a step-through frame.

You hit it right on the head. If a manufacturer has a "men's & ladie's" frame of the same model despite the top tube difference, the geometry is different. Women tend to have longer legs and a shorter torso & arms compared to a man of the same height. The bike is designed with that in mind. A lot of the time a man will feel "scrunched up" on a women's bike. Now not everyone is built the same. So if a "womens/ladies/step-through/uni-sex/or whatever it's called this year fits and feels good, then ride it and enjoy it.:)

For me it's a mental block.

My first bike WAS a girl's bike, and I learned to ride it on my own after my mom and sister made excellent efforts to teach me. They had no luck, but one day, I stood on one pedal (my whole body on the left side of the bike, standing), and I gained a sense of balance. Then, I swung my leg over and seemed to instantly understand how to balance a bike. I was riding from that day on (I was 6).

It wasn't but a day or two later when a bunch of boys were riding bikes by me, and one shouted, "Hey, that's a girl's bike."

I never rode that bike again, but soon enough I had my own bike (a garage sale special). The handlebars were flexible (wouldn't stay secured) and the front wheel wasn't secured, so wheelies meant that the wheel would fall off (which actually happened).

My first new bike was at 9, and I rode it all day while making motorcycle sounds.

For me it's a mental block.

My first bike WAS a girl's bike, and I learned to ride it on my own after my mom and sister made excellent efforts to teach me. They had no luck, but one day, I stood on one pedal (my whole body on the left side of the bike, standing), and I gained a sense of balance. Then, I swung my leg over and seemed to instantly understand how to balance a bike. I was riding from that day on (I was 6).

It wasn't but a day or two later when a bunch of boys were riding bikes by me, and one shouted, "Hey, that's a girl's bike."

I never rode that bike again, but soon enough I had my own bike (a garage sale special). The handlebars were flexible (wouldn't stay secured) and the front wheel wasn't secured, so wheelies meant that the wheel would fall off (which actually happened).

My first new bike was at 9, and I rode it all day while making motorcycle sounds.

I guess I was lucky so to speak, the neighborhood I grew up in wasn’t a wealthy neighborhood, and some of the toughest boys I knew rode what would be called “Girls” bikes. Most of them were yard sale specials, because that was all their family could afford to get them.

So, as a result we never learned, as kids, to make fun of anyone because of the type of bike they rode. I never understood some of the new kids that would wonder into the neighborhood, and start trying to make a big deal out of the fact that some of the boys were riding girls bikes. In some ways I began to learn to feel sorry for these new kids in their ignorance, because most of the time they would go home looking like they had been ran through a meat grinder, after the so-called “Sissy girls bike riding boys” got done with them.

A bicycle is just a machine… Different style frames for different uses, or needs… But, in my opinion the riders sex vs. the type of frame, should never be an issue, as long as the bike fits the person riding it.

Well, frame style is one thing. But bikes for girls--little girls at least--tend to be pink and lavender painted with fairies and pegasoi and other fru-fru, with fringes and pompoms on the handlebars and the like; I can understand boys not liking that.

When I was in middle and high school, I sometimes rode my mom's bike, which was a black Sears "English Three Speed" with a step-through frame. It was a stepthrough, but didn't have the folderols, and I didn't feel odd about it.

Good point. Not all men are sized alike and some men have smaller hands and small body builds. Its not just women who need to be properly fitted to a bike. I'm not over 6" tall and I'm not a midget either. So where are the bikes designed to fit average height guys? I'm just 5'7"!

The Hobbiton & Bywater Cyclery, right across from the Green Dragon, should have something for you, Frodo.

^ :rolling

For a given weight, a diamond frame bike should be stronger and stiffer than a step-through bike. For a given level of strength and stiffness, a diamond frame bike should be lighter than a step-through bike. However, for most riders in most conditions, the frames are strong enough and stiff enough, and make up a small enough fraction of the total weight, that it doesn't really matter.

I've had several frame failures-though mostly folding bikes-and none of those broken folders were diamond frame and probably they would have been stronger at the failure points if they were diamonds. Since weight is a premium on folders, it could be in those applications, manufacturers don't beef up the frames to compensate for the weakness.

"... step through frames have some advantages over a diamond frame ..." Heck, if you're too chicken mention the biggest advantage, I will! With a step through frame, a guy is less likely to crack the "family jewels"!

Bikes are gender neutral, ride what you like and what is comfy for you.

Not to mention the number of split pants that would have been saved from not having to swing the leg up as high.:lol:

I've got a chronic lower back. I'm thinking of getting one of the AfricaBikes. Also available with a three-speed hub. For every two bikes sold, I believe Kona donates one for remote HIV medical access.

I've got a chronic lower back. I'm thinking of getting one of the AfricaBikes. Also available with a three-speed hub. For every two bikes sold, I believe Kona donates one for remote HIV medical access.

I like the Africa bike really well, especially the three speed model, and I think it’s great that Kona doesn’t just try to market it as a woman’s bike. If you use their bike finder, the Africa bike shows up under, “You are a Man”, or “You are a Woman”. It looks to me like they really beefed up the frame in the rear rack area, in 2009, compared to the rear rack on the 2008 model.

As I’ve said before, these bike companies need to make bike frames optimized for their intended uses, and quit trying to impose gender bias…

I've got a chronic lower back. I'm thinking of getting one of the AfricaBikes. Also available with a three-speed hub. For every two bikes sold, I believe Kona donates one for remote HIV medical access.

What about this:

Not to mention the number of split pants that would have been saved from not having to swing the leg up as high.:lol:

That can be avoided by buying trousers that fit properly.