Touring - Hello, need some tips and advice...

Well, this summer, I plan on hitting Washington to New York. Its 4,200 miles I believe, and I have never done a trip this long before. I've always loved riding my bike, ever since I was in first grade. Each summer I rode everyday, and finally, at 18, I mentioned the idea to my friends. They thought I was nuts, and that I wouldn't do it. However, I would really really like to try and attempt this, for my old goals I set back in first grade. I don't have a bike either, well I have an old 1992 Schwinn High Plains, which gets me to school and back, I don't think it'll live state to state. So any good bike recomendations would be good. I would like to use a mountain bike, and keep it under $1,500. Also, from what I read, people are taking light weight sleeping bags, tents, can openers, pads, and things like this. Is there a back pack big enough for all of this? I don't really like the panners, and I'd rather just lug everything on my back, if its not too bad... Any input and suggestion would be really nice. Thanks.

Originally posted by dennisk
Well, this summer, I plan on hitting Washington to New York. Its 4,200 miles I believe, and I have never done a trip this long before. I've always loved riding my bike, ever since I was in first grade. Each summer I rode everyday, and finally, at 18, I mentioned the idea to my friends. They thought I was nuts, and that I wouldn't do it. However, I would really really like to try and attempt this, for my old goals I set back in first grade. I don't have a bike either, well I have an old 1992 Schwinn High Plains, which gets me to school and back, I don't think it'll live state to state. So any good bike recomendations would be good. I would like to use a mountain bike, and keep it under $1,500. Also, from what I read, people are taking light weight sleeping bags, tents, can openers, pads, and things like this. Is there a back pack big enough for all of this? I don't really like the panners, and I'd rather just lug everything on my back, if its not too bad... Any input and suggestion would be really nice. Thanks.

Wow! You've bit off a big bite! :eek: No bike yet, and you want to tackle the big one? Okay, you can do it, you're young, but I think you might be at a disadvantage. First, a backpack probably won't work for you in the long haul. It's going to be heavy and bulky. I think it might be the biggest threat to your success followed very closely by a lack of long-range training. Add the two together and the threat is doubled. The weight on your butt will be mocho-bad. :(

A mountain bike is okay, but you want to make sure you've got some road (slicks with tread?) tires on it versus the normal mountain bike tread. I think there are plenty of MTBs that are in your price range or lower that will be sufficient for your plans.

I'm sure there will be plenty of advice coming your way on this forum. Welcome to it! Keep us up to date on your pre-ride progress. :)

Ahh yes, tonight, I talked with one of my friends. He says that he can do the trip with me in the summer of 2003, so I took him up on the offer. That means this summer I can work and make some money, and start riding a lot more. So that gives me some time to train for long rides. And I see how the backpack can be a hinderance... I decided that I could do with a bike rack, and just bungee a back pack with my stuff on to that, then when I need the back pack I can pull it off and the majority of the things I need are with me. But in terms of bikes, I haven't been looking or reading very much, so any suggestions, on manufactures, or even types of tires would be helpful. Thanks though, for the advice on the back pack..

Tires i use Continental top touring and had one flat tire in 8,000 miles I do rotate them every 600 miles maybe that helps but they are good sturdy tires . They cost alittle more but you will save in the long run.

Bikes and gear are a matter of preferance. and opinion. On long extended tours cheep gear doesnt hold up

the Bike I use is a trek 520 $999.00 I made changes to the stock gearing to get a lower granny and a bigger top gear. V brakes are good for slowing down and stoping with weight on the bike. I built bontregar clydsdale rims , 3 water bottle holders, a rear rack and pannieers and frount rack with pannieers gett ing ready for a tour is almost as exciteing as the tour itself. here is a pic of my gear, the stack onthe rear rack holds he tent sleeping bag and pad not much weight but looks like a big load. everything has several uses or doesnt go.

Sweet, good example, keep em coming!

Hi,

Backpack will not do. You need panniers for long distance tour.

Backpack increases your center of gravity. It may lead to a crash in strong wind and slippery road condition. You will have enough difficulties without this problem.

I know one cyclist who needed medical treatment of his shoulder after long bike trip with heavy backpack.

It is 10-minutes job to mount panniers. You definitely should use panniers, instead of trying to fix a backpack to where it does not belong.

Try to pack your equipment and have the test ride before departing to the long distace trip.

You may find useful information on the http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/index.htm site.

Good luck!

Bruce Gordeon BLT (basic loaded tourer)is the best purpose built touring bike in the sub £1200 range. It is available with MTB sized wheels if you want trail riding capability, but is definately a touring bike, much more comfortable and stable, and the gear changers have non-indexed backup mode, very useful in the event of a prang.

Backpack on your back is absolutely the wrong way to go. For camping you NEED either a trailer or 4 panniers, front and back. You can take a lightweight daysac for hiking.
I toured Irish hostels for a week using only a 25l daysac bungy strapped to the rack of a hire bike. I did it, but it is not stable enough for heavy loads. Putting the rucsac on a Yak trailer may work.

There are some touring packing lists around the web.
I suggest a shakedown tour, starting with a weekend, using your full kit and milleage, but travel locally. See what works and what you dont need.
For preparation, just get lots of saddle time on the bike you intend to use. Commuting/shopping etc as well as "training rides"

the best advice that i can give is to have a look here. www.kenkifer.com

Good luck with your tour. I hope to being touring soon myself.

All the above is good advice and you would do well in looking carefully at the picture Catfish has attached to his post.

That's what a well equipped tourer looks like, particularly in Europe. That looks like my audax bike albeit I don't often find the need for front lowriders as I tend to B & B (the wife is a softy!!) when touring. Over here we tend to use wider ratio gears rather than 1/2 step and granny.

If you want to discuss touring with a modified mountain bike, wait until Toolfreak gets back to the forum after his tour of the north of England and the Highlands of Scotland and pick his brains. He's done that taking a big load on a backpack and trailer (in some really bad weather -pass of Glencoe last weekend) , so you might find that of interest.

There's nothing more satisfying than going on a tour and nothing better looking than a fully loaded tourer.

Good luck. :thumbup:

Ok... Panniers.... ok... I'm doing this with a friend... So tent wise, how good is a 2 man tent, for 2 people? Any recomendations? Lots of people seem to dislike 1 man tents.....

if it is your girl friend, both people in one tent if it is your buddy, get your own tent. 2 man of course is better. There are light weight 2 man tents mine is just over 3 lbs. you will have enough room for your self to be comfortable and some of your gear also.

with your own tent youget a little privacy and, If you and your friend are not compatable after a while you can part ways and still have shelter.

so many choices and decisions I try to be as independant and self sufficient as possible out on the road.
catfish

Originally posted by catfish
if it is your girl friend, both people in one tent
Yes, I wish. I guess if the tents are that light, it doesn't even matter, might as well get two. I've been reading 2 mans from REI are good. What about sleeping bags?

Originally posted by dennisk

Yes, I wish. I guess if the tents are that light, it doesn't even matter, might as well get two. I've been reading 2 mans from REI are good. What about sleeping bags?

Again I'd get your own unless you're sharing with a girlfriend :D

Richard

With tents, you have to remember the relationship between surface area (ie the amount of material) to volume. As you double the surface area, you square the volume. This means that big tents are more weight efficient than small tents.
Cycling as a group means that heavier tools, cooking equipment etc do not neeed to be duplicated, and you need only carry one frame pump, with a small emergency backup.

Just remember, there is no I in teime.

What about sleeping bags?

think about the time of year and What weather will you face . I have a kelty bag stuffed into a sack and quite light weight. Its a synthtic material , and warm to about 20 degrees F. A good pad is worth the extra money Shop arround and keep asking questions. gearing up for a tour is important make smart choices and don't waste money.

After your bike I concider the most important piece of equipment on a self contained tour tobe the tent. remember it rains and the wind blows when you are out there staying dry and comfprtable is the goal

Your right REI has some good tents and many other places do also I used a REI "clipper" one year its light and roomy priced about $160 easy to set up. The only thing I dont like on many of the new tents now is they put a window in the rain fly. I look at it as another potential leak and takes away a bit of privacy. however make sure you get some seam seal and seal all seams on what ever tent you buy.


catfish

While your at REI, Cannondale has two touring bikes. The T2000 and the T800. They have all the connections for rear and front bags. Put some miles on the bike first and have the bike serviced before leaving on your big ride.

1. Get a 2-man tent each, unless you want to leave all of your food and stuff outside at night (not something I'd recommend doing).

2. Forget the backpack and go with panniers. I used to carry a backpack on single day rides, and even though it had bugger all in it, it used to make my back sore after a few hours and it got HOT underneath it.

3. In choosing your panniers, ignore any claims about them being "waterproof". I learned that one the hard way in a sudden downpour at Stanthorpe a couple of years ago. You're better off to keep your stuff inside plastic bags inside the panniers. Even if there was such thing as a waterproof pannier, you'd need the plastic bags to separate anything that got wet (such as clothing) from the stuff you wanna keep dry.

4. A mountain bike with slick tyres will be fine. In fact, it would be my preferred choice because, in my view, they can go more places which is useful if you decide to take any side trips along the way.

Originally posted by Chris L
4. A mountain bike with slick tyres will be fine. In fact, it would be my preferred choice because, in my view, they can go more places which is useful if you decide to take any side trips along the way.

yes, I agree, I like the versatility.

What type of paniers do you recomend? Anyone?
Thanks for all the relpies, very very helpful.

Ok, I looked up some panniers, Ortlieb Bike Packer Lite Panniers...... Pricey, but are they good? Is there a good resourse which compares these type of things?

I've never used Ortleibs, so I can't comment on them. However, I've heard others say not very nice things about them. Basically, I'd go for durability rather than waterproofness, because water will always find a way in if it rains heavily enough.

What do you use? I just don't know whats reliable and everything...

I use the Deuter Rack Pack 2. They claim to be waterproof but they aren't. However, they have done two tours and over 1,000 commutes, so they have reasonable durability.

Another point I will make on pannier racks, a Blackburn MTN rack is very, very good.

Originally posted by dennisk
What do you use? I just don't know whats reliable and everything...

I've been using a pair of Altura panniers for the last three months for commuting, carrying heavy groceries, timber etc. and they seem to be holding up well.

One thing to be careful of with large panniers on a mountain bike is heel clearance - if your frame is fairly compact you might have problems - check before you buy.

Richard

Roadified MTBs can work, but they often have front forks too stiff, and with no mounting for front pannier racks.
Sporty cross-country racing bikes are often too agile and tight to handle luggage. Mid-range bikes often make better tourers than more expensive models.
MTB wheels are definately good on a tourer, thats why I recomended the Bruce Gorden.


Blackburn racks are the industry standard.
Ortleib are fine panniers, but in tropical damp conditions, can get manky inside from mildew.
Look for heavy duty fabric, good stiffening and rack mounting clips, and few zips,pockets or dividers (ie not too many features). One external pocket is sufficient.
Remember that touring is very hard on equipment, so you need tough bags. Check out the cheapest thin floppy bags in the shop for what not to get.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catfish
[B]Tires i use Continental top touring and had one flat tire in 8,000 miles I do rotate them every 600 miles maybe that helps but they are good sturdy tires . They cost alittle more but you will save in the long run.

Catfish. I am curious. That is some fine looking machinery and gear you got there, but how do you lock that stuff up while on your tour? Maybe secure would be a better word.

Thanks,
Dave

Basically, don't let it stray too far from your sight. The only time my bike was where I couldn't see it on my last tour was at paid campsites/caravan parks. The only time this wasn't the case was at Crows Nest National Park. There I used a cable lock (basically a metal chain) to secure it to a picnic table (locked through the frame of course), removed all the valuables from my panniers (wallet, camera etc). When I came back, it hadn't even been touched.

Worth considering is a decent quality hybrid cycle.

I own a giant x8oo which has served me well on tours of Norway (twice) and France/Switzerland. also when not touring it is an exellent commuting/recreation bike, it is 5 years old now and has clocked up over 15,ooo miles in that time with nothing more than the usual wear and tear.

As others have stated do not even consider a single man tent , go for a 2 man, the extra room it provides for your provisions is absolutely essential, and the extra weight is negligble.

My panniers are Karrimor which again have given me exellent service, but do not fully trust the waterproof quality of bags , i have always used inner plastic bags as added protection, wich proved indispensable on my last very wet weather tour in Norway.

I avoid any form of backpack as this causes a gradual discomfort with a long day in the saddle

Reply to Dave:

Catfish. I am curious. That is some fine looking machinery and gear you got there, but how do you lock that stuff up while on your tour? Maybe secure would be a better word.

Dave:
Thats a good question first time out on tour i was worried about that same thing. here is my thoughts and what i do.

really about the only time i ever locked my bike is when i got ready to crawll into the tent and crash. so I didnt have to worry about every little noise in the night, that my bike would be gone in the morning. (made for at restfull night.) I had a light weight cable and conbination lock ( i would have lost the key) This kept honest thieves away. But a professional could have cut it but then nothing is 100% safe.

when I stoped at grocerys along the route I just leaned my bike up against the wall and went in. most times there were people looking at the bike in wonderment and waiting for me to return to ask a million questions. Remember that a loaded touring rig gets pretty filthy and looks like it weighs a ton, not a likely canidate for a theif to get away on.

While touring i get off into out of the way areas a lot and camp in some unlikly places. Best advice on security is go with your gut feeling .

I am planning next seasons tour any one with the time is welcom to ride some.
catfsih
In the larger cities or anytime i felt in my gut that it was a better choice to lock it I would lock it while in a store. or libarary using the computer.

after a few thousand miles i just developed a good sense of things. One lady i was talking to at a coffie shop asked if i was worried about someone stealing my bike and my answer was " hey if they steal it then i dont have to ride it any more" that was of course on a day that i was struggling..

Others I met onthe road locked their rig every time they dismounted. I usually tried to keep it in sight at while in a cafe

Have you considered a recumbent cycle for your tour? They have a great many advantages on extended tours. Main being, more comfortable and more efficient in energy use. In the States you have a great selection and there are some very good web sites on recumbents. I happen to be a late convert to recumbents but in the past 6 years have put 40,000 miles under my legs, so am a bit biased. Give them a try. no harm done.

Good luck and enjoy.

:)

Well, after looking at bikes, I decided on a Klein Attitude Comp, I wanted a Race, but $$$.... So I think I'm going to go with the Comp. What do you guys think? I rode a Klein Attitude, and it was pretty nice.. And I know the deal with the Klein's are that they spend lots on frame, but their drivetrain is a bit down scale... Now, the question is, how do i get panniers on to see if they fit? I was looking at some, and it seems I would need to get a rack for the back first to have it hook onto something. Anyways, any comments on the bike choice?

The backpack ideal won't work. Put's your center of gravity way to high.
In another post, I stated that I use both a BOB trailer and panniers...one great combo that works

The bike that I use is a hybridized Trek 850 with a Judy fork upfront. On the handlebars rides an e trek GPS (I like to run off of the asphalt as much as possible).

On long treks I'll switch between knobbies and slicks depending on terrain.

One of the big errors for new tourer is to try and do too many milles each day...remember, terrain, weather, and fatigue will bring done the miles, plus don't forget to add some fun days into the trek. You'll be glad you did.

Originally posted by Old Dan

One of the big errors for new tourer is to try and do too many milles each day...remember, terrain, weather, and fatigue will bring done the miles, plus don't forget to add some fun days into the trek. You'll be glad you did.

Good advice. In a 10 day/ two week tour we always try to have one time where we spend at least 2 nights in the same place. Then we only need to ride the bikes if needed to sightsee, gives time for maintenance, go for a swim, use some non cycling muscles.

Originally posted by dennisk
Well, after looking at bikes, I decided on a Klein Attitude Comp, I wanted a Race, but $$$.... Anyways, any comments on the bike choice?

http://www.kleinbikes.com/bicycles/bikes.asp?p=1092


Check out the wheels. According to Klein, the current model takes tubeless tyres. Not a good idea, stick to standard tyres so you have a better choice of slicks. The low spoke count is also worrying if you want to tour. You NEED a good 36 spoke wheel. Dont use 32 spokes or any low spoke count like the Klien's 24/28.
The front radial spoking is also dubious in a touring bike.

Does it have a good rack attatchement braze-on. If not, forget it.
The front suspension is not ideal for a big tour, another thing to go wrong, but people seem to use them. You may have trouble fitting front panniers, but Tubus make an (expensive) front sus rack.

The rear mech cable routing on the seat stay can gather water in the cable outer, leading to rust and premature breakage.

This model may make a fine and fun weekend play bike, but I wouldnt start a big tour on it.
You need something much more standard and well proven, with better spares compatability.

The thing you have to understand about touring is that Mr Murphy is your riding partner. If it can go wrong, it will. Tourers are by experience a conservative bunch. We like stuff that works, and when it fails, we can till carry on.

I'm with Michael. For touring you want a fairly relaxed set of frame angles ( for stability especially when loaded) strong wheels (one of my bikes has 36 spoke front and 40 rear) and good rack attachments.

Maybe the best idea is to go second hand at first. Geta good fuly equipped tourer as to add the desired bits to the Klein would cost a fair bit.

I agree with Chewa and Michael, The Klien does not seem to be all that suitable for the type of tour you are proposing.

I personaly would stick with a rigid frame bike ( less things to go wrong) + the carring combination of trailer and rear panniers will place a great strain on the rear wheel , I would of thought a 40 spoke wheel will be pretty much essential.

It's a nice looking bike, with a sensible mix of components but the wheels look like lightweight fun rather than fit for touring (as a 210 lb commuter I've been advised not to look at less that 36 hole hubs for durability and reliability). I don't know about the suitability of a suspension fork for touring - If it holds up, then by all accounts they can lower hand-numbness as well as helping with dirt-roads. My lbs said that for commuting any modern coil fork is generally more than reliable enough, and that any failures would likely be gradual, and start noticeably affecting performance before causing real problems - how this translates to touring with large distances between bikeshops I don't know...

Richard

Best advice on security is go with your gut feeling.

Absolutely. Sometimes you "feel" that a place is not secure to leave your bike in, locked or not. Since I always have toured with a friend, we always have had the option to have one of us guarding the bikes while the other does errands. We never leave the bikes both unlocked or unguarded, though. They have on a few occasions been left with all panniers on for a couple of hours, and of course several times when buying food or such (we always take the bar-bags with us). Nothing have ever been stolen.

On the tent issue. If you go for one tent, buy one for at least three persons (if you are two). That way you get more space than a two-man tent.

If you are planning the long tour in 2003, you really should try to do a shorter (two weeks) tour this year if possible. First you will learn what you (don't) need and feel what it's like to do perhaps ten 100kms days in a row. 4000 miles is a long way, and you need to be prepared to make it the fun adventure it could be.

/Csson

well, the only thing is, I hate touring bikes, and I like the position of a mountain bike, its just how i like it... Can you guys recomend a good mountain for touring then? Something with 36 spokes, which has no front suspension is what your saying is good, right?

Originally posted by dennisk
well, the only thing is, I hate touring bikes, and I like the position of a mountain bike, its just how i like it... Can you guys recomend a good mountain for touring then? Something with 36 spokes, which has no front suspension is what your saying is good, right?

What I did is bought a mountain bike with front suspension. I had a few people telling me to go with a road bike since I'd be doing most of my riding on the road. But the majority of advice told me to go with a mountain bike with front suspension. Front suspention makes for a more comfortable ride, but on the downside, lessens your efficiency. Where I was coming from is that I am not trying to break any records, just have fun. And part of the plan is to have no plan. To be open to all kinds of things along the way, including rougher trails, and even dumping the paniers/trailer for a day and doing some real mountain bike stuff. These things I wouldn't be able to do with a strict road bike or touring bike. So besides the added comfort comes versatility. And I like to have options.
I bought a C-dale F400 (has front suspension) about a month ago and most of my miles have been on the road, but I've learned a lot of lessons while doing some weekend trail riding. I am always in the bike shops browsing around and talking to people with experience. Everyone has got a different opinion, but you'll start to see it come together as you gain more experience and talk to more people.
Right now I still feel relatively inexperienced, but on the other hand, I am gaining the knowledge about what feels comfortable and what I like, which I think are the most important things.
Just think about how during your tour its going to be you and your machine. So make sure it suits you.
And like Csson said, just go out and do a small tour, get out there and ride. Thats the best way to figure it all out.

my two pennies,
Dave

Originally posted by dennisk
well, the only thing is, I hate touring bikes, and I like the position of a mountain bike, its just how i like it... Can you guys recomend a good mountain for touring then? Something with 36 spokes, which has no front suspension is what your saying is good, right?

...for a mountain bike, I lean toward the Treks - my cro moly 850 might be a wee bit on the heavy side, but it's built like a tank. After 4 years of ownership the only repairs are cables, brake pads and tyres. The only alterations were the seat and the rigid front fork (tossed for a Rock Shok).

Today, I won't tour without front supension - I've ran both fire and logging roads with and without front supension. Take it from me, on these roads a rigid fork would beat you to death (over the years I've been working on putting together an asphalt free Trans Am, maybe in a few more years it'll be done). Front supension may make you less efficent mileage wise, but in dirt and mud you get much, much better braking control, which could, in the long run, really mean better mileage since you don't have to walk out of the back country with a broken bike.......

If you really want to take a backpack for hiking excursions, find one with an internal frame where the two vertical frame bits are removeable, remove them, tie then to your frame with electrical tape, roll up the backpack, and lash it to your rack.

I did this for an extended tour of OZ/NZ and it worked very well.

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. I've been looking closely at bikes, and I'm leaning towards a Cannondale T2000. I heard some good things about the Cannondale frames, so I was checking the other hardware. I was checking out Shimano's stuff, and I saw the XTR as the rear derailleur. I thought the XTR was mainly for the MTB stuff? I know it's top notch.... Then I looked at the rear cogs, 11-34 (by the way, is this the number of teeth?), and for all the road bike rear derailleur's the max was 24, and I was just thinking they threw the XTR on to make it work.
The Shifters were Ultegra's, and I really like those... However, I'm not sure about some of the other components, such as the pedals or the crank, or the front derailleur.
http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/02/cusa/model-2TR2.html
Theres the web page with the specs, if you guys have some time, run down the list and tell me what you think about the components, what I may need to upgrade down the line, perhaps some components which may have problems.... I must say, by the way, I am impressed with the quality of the replies... very helpful. Thanks,
Dennis.