Commuting - Disc Brakes prevent endovers, skidding?

What's the skin-nee on the disk brakes? We know they're not anti-lock like car brakes. But do they prevent endovers (flying over the handlebars if you brake with the front brake before the back)? Less skidding on wet pavement?

No. The primary advantage of disc brakes is their wet weather performance.

and they don't wear down your rims..

What the first two replies said....Oh...They look cool too!:p

On a mountain bike they don't lose effectivness in wet, rainy, muddy, or dusty conditions like rim brakes do. On a commuter or road bike i personally don't see it.

On a mountain bike they don't lose effectivness in wet, rainy, muddy, or dusty conditions like rim brakes do. On a commuter or road bike i personally don't see it.

Are you saying that a commuter or road bike will never see any of the conditions you've listed? I'm sorry, but I'm of the opinion that a disc brake cyclocross bike is the cat's meow for a commuter.

I flat love the discs on my MTB and wish I had similar on my road bike.

-R

I'd say they make it easier to endo and skid.

If you're into that kind of thing.

Of course, I think they also make it easier to stop.

They modulate better. They work even if the wheel is slightly out of true. The pads last much longer. They keep their adjustment better.

All advantages for commuting.

they work in ice and snow too.

iced rims with rim brakes are no fun, let me tell you.

Are you saying that a commuter or road bike will never see any of the conditions you've listed? I'm sorry, but I'm of the opinion that a disc brake cyclocross bike is the cat's meow for a commuter.


Agreed!

This is my 2004 Giant TCX cyclocross bike that I built up. I use it as a daily commuter, 15 miles round trip. I currently have Continental Contact tires mounted, not the knobbies shown in the picture.

I want disk brakes on my fixed gear

I've personally never used disk brakes but with my rim brakes, even when in the cold and wet I find I can apply enough braking force for my tire to skid, and having any more than that is just pointless. In really bad condictions where your rim is plastered in snow and ice this will probably not apply, but you rarely get conditions that bad where I am. I never get how people get ice on the rims anyway, or do you leave your bike out overnight or something

I used to use rim brakes on my commuter and switched to disc brakes about two years ago. They are better in wet conditions. Disc brakes don't leave gobs of brake pad on the rim. Disc brakes stop the same in rain (rim brakes stop weaker when wet). With rim brakes debris between the pad and the rim will scratch the rim, doesn't seem to be an issue with disc brakes. Its easier to remove and replace the wheel when fixing flats with disc brakes. Only negatives are higher cost, less choices in road frames (disc tabs on road frames hard to come by) and slightly more weight.

I want disk brakes on my fixed gear

I have one on mine :D

On a mountain bike they don't lose effectivness in wet, rainy, muddy, or dusty conditions like rim brakes do. On a commuter or road bike i personally don't see it.

My commuting regularly involves wet, rainy, muddy and dusty conditions. I ride 8 miles a day over gravel road, and my bike can get caked in mud quickly.

But you left out freezing rain, snow, slush, and general wet freezing crap.

I never get how people get ice on the rims anyway, or do you leave your bike out overnight or something

Freezing rain. There's ice on the SPOKES. I once rode up to the smokers standing outside the building at work, stood up, and about 1/4 inch of ice cracked off my JACKET.

Also, if you're plowing through deep snow, the snow is easily up over the rims, sometimes several inches over. The snow is continually falling in and hitting the rims. Now, hit your brakes once. You just heated up the rims, and there's snow hitting them, melting. In a few seconds, the rims will cool back down below freezing. BOOM, ice on the rims.

Believe me, I've gotten to where the rims were solid ice. Heck, I've had ice on the TIRES.

God I'm glad I live in the sub-tropics.

Freezing rain. There's ice on the SPOKES. I once rode up to the smokers standing outside the building at work, stood up, and about 1/4 inch of ice cracked off my JACKET.

Also, if you're plowing through deep snow, the snow is easily up over the rims, sometimes several inches over. The snow is continually falling in and hitting the rims. Now, hit your brakes once. You just heated up the rims, and there's snow hitting them, melting. In a few seconds, the rims will cool back down below freezing. BOOM, ice on the rims.

Believe me, I've gotten to where the rims were solid ice. Heck, I've had ice on the TIRES.

I'm glad I moved out of Michigan eight years ago :twitchy:

Hell, I live in Denver, Colorado and it's practically sub-tropical compared to that! Ick.....and my father-in-law is always talking about how Detroit is Paradise on Earth.:rolleyes:


What the first two replies said....Oh...They look cool too!:p

And they're new and exciting!

all good points for and against above. Another "against" on a commuter in my books is added difficulty installing racks and fenders. It can be done, but not as easily or with as much selection.

The new trend in disc bikes is to have brazeons on the forks and the rear caliper mounted between the stays so that regular fenders and racks fit just fine.

And installing fenders on my old Coda Comp was as much or more of a PITA as putting them on any of my disc bikes.

My bike is not upgradable, so maybe I'll look for a POS for the winter and upgrade that. On my route, oncoming traffic to try and turn left in front of you. Which sometimes leads to panic stops on wet pavement. Last week, a co-worker did a panic stop on his mountain bike. Skidded and did an end-over.

Let's just say, we haven't seen him since. He has two broken wrists and will need an operation with pins, bolts, and plates. The face plant didn't help his looks. Even though I run strobes and reflectivity, this still happened to me once with just a concusion and field trip to the ER.

Only negatives are higher cost, less choices in road frames (disc tabs on road frames hard to come by) and slightly more weight.

Kona is coming out with a new Dew model called the Dew Drop (http://www.konaworld.com/09_dewdrop.htm) (drop bars, disc brakes). There's also the Kona Sutra (http://www.konaworld.com/09_sutra_u.cfm) (I'd buy that bike just for the name alone. :lol:) and the Raleigh Sojourn (http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/road/sojourn/). The advantage with the Sojourn is the issue of a rear rack and fenders is already addressed. But, I agree, not enough choices (yet) in road bikes; mostly MTB and hybrids/commuters.

The biggest problem with southern Michigan is that it's too warm. I used to live farther north where it got cold and stayed that way. Believe me, it's much better than the warm/cold cycling we get here. Every time it gets near freezing and the sun shines, it melts the snowpack down into ice, and water gets over the ice, and it's horrible.

Farther north the snow falls and stays there, and stays snow, not ice. It's great fun. I used to cross-country ski for hours a week. There's not even any point in OWNING xc skiis here. With any luck, climate change will bring some real winters to us so we can have fun instead of just 3 months of bad roads.

Main problems with disc brakes on a commuter :
- They make noise
- The discs are easily bent (although it's relatively easy to correct)
- They're not that easy to work with

That's what I gather from people who bought bikes at our shop.

To me, the best design is a drum brake (Shimano RollerBrake or SRAM i-brake) which has excellent braking power in the wet, requires less maintenance and make no noise.

Is this it? It looks heavy
http://www.bikesonline.com/ppp/images/BR7228.jpg

all good points for and against above. Another "against" on a commuter in my books is added difficulty installing racks and fenders. It can be done, but not as easily or with as much selection.

Lots of disc specific racks out there.. I have one on my MTB. Even a standard (non-disc) rack will fit with the ingenuity of a couple spacers to clear the caliper

-Roger

Freezing rain. There's ice on the SPOKES. I once rode up to the smokers standing outside the building at work, stood up, and about 1/4 inch of ice cracked off my JACKET.

Also, if you're plowing through deep snow, the snow is easily up over the rims, sometimes several inches over. The snow is continually falling in and hitting the rims. Now, hit your brakes once. You just heated up the rims, and there's snow hitting them, melting. In a few seconds, the rims will cool back down below freezing. BOOM, ice on the rims.

Believe me, I've gotten to where the rims were solid ice. Heck, I've had ice on the TIRES.

If it's that cold can't you just constantly lightly apply your brakes.

Just out of curoisity I always thought rubber actually had pretty good grip on ice, so why do brakes struggle so much with it, or is it just that the ice is too wet.

Is this it? It looks heavy
This is exactly that. It's a bit heavier than a disc brake, but not much. The photo doesn't really give the scale of it, it's not very big.

But I forgot to say it doesn't work on usual external gear hubs (at least not that I know). But I know they make front hubs with it.

If it's that cold can't you just constantly lightly apply your brakes.

Just out of curoisity I always thought rubber actually had pretty good grip on ice, so why do brakes struggle so much with it, or is it just that the ice is too wet.

Yeah, that's convenient. Constant light pressure on my brake levers while for 50 minutes while I'm riding through snow and traffic, for months at a stretch. Add to that the sand and grit that's constantly in the mix from the gravel roads I ride on, and I'll go through a set of rims in a month.

Nothing has a good grip on ice except hard spikes that can dig into it. Ever tried to WALK on ice? Particularly if it has a bit of water on top? Keep in mind that we're talking dynamic friction here, not static. So it's worst than walking, it's the friction you get from your rubber shoes AFTER you've started to slip. At that point the only hope is to catch your balance or land on 3+ appendages; you're not going to regain traction.

I tried kool stops, and they're wonderful in summer, though they still grind my rims down. In the end what fixed my brakes in winter was switching to discs.

One of the things I have to watch out for when I'm riding in the winter with studs is if it really is icy, I can ride the whole way to work and not worry much about it, but then fall when I get off my bike and try to stand on the stuff.

I can leave huge skid marks with my disc brakes, or any other brakes I have had. Modulation is easier to control and it is easier on my hands (could just be the levers) to lock em up.

The biggest reason I wanted discs on my commuter was broken spokes and out of true rims. If either of these happen on a commute, or brevet, then on a rim brake I'd have to disengage the brake or loosen it. The discs don't care what the situation is on the rim whether it be dented, bent, out of true, iced over, covered with mud, wet or covered with reflective tape. Also avoids a problem that seems to crop up for a few folks I know with the brake blocks rubbing the tire bead and blowing the tire but that has never happened to me.

Main problems with disc brakes on a commuter :
- They make noise
- The discs are easily bent (although it's relatively easy to correct)
- They're not that easy to work with

That's what I gather from people who bought bikes at our shop.



Once broken in they don't make much noise at all.

Are they easily bent? It's not like you can just take one in your hands and taco it. I've dumped my mtb plenty and my road bike with discs has gone down quite a few times as well and have yet to bend one. According to my Avid BB7 manual, a slightly bent rotor is still workable. Much cheaper than a bent rim that won't work with rim brakes.

How are they not easy to work with? Cable, caliper, pads. Maybe hydraulic are more difficult, but once those are set up, you're good to go and will rarely have to make adjustments.

mine don't make much noise either, unless they're wet. and that can have advantages too, like a warning system to people walking on paths. I don't need to yell for them to move.

Mine make noise the first 4 or 5 times I use them after installing new pads, or when wet (until I use them a time or two, then they warm up and make little noise.

I can't imagine what I'd be doing to my bike to bend a disc. Maybe if I were trying to be cool and didn't have a kickstand, and just threw my bike on the ground or leaned it against random junk, I might bend it. But I've been through a bit over a year so far and it's dead true.

They're FAR easier to work with than rim brakes. I had never touched one before, and I had it installed in about 20 minutes. They take 90 seconds to true the caliper to the rotor, then all you have to do is spin down the adjuster about once a month, which takes 5 seconds and no tools. Rim brakes are much more of a PITA. A set of $6 pads (eBay) lasted me almost exactly a year (I've only changed them once so far)

Kona is coming out with a new Dew model called the Dew Drop (http://www.konaworld.com/09_dewdrop.htm) (drop bars, disc brakes). There's also the Kona Sutra (http://www.konaworld.com/09_sutra_u.cfm) (I'd buy that bike just for the name alone. :lol:) and the Raleigh Sojourn (http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/road/sojourn/). The advantage with the Sojourn is the issue of a rear rack and fenders is already addressed. But, I agree, not enough choices (yet) in road bikes; mostly MTB and hybrids/commuters.

Well if you're looking for a road bike with both the ability to have racks, and disc brakes, I don't see where you'd go wrong with a touring bike.... maybe a bit heavier construction, but that's not a bad thing if you're going to be loading it.

http://devinci.ca/11628_an.html ...is a Devinci touring bike with disc brakes

Yes, I have tried to walk on ice and with the right shoes it's very easy (how else do you think people manage to take part in curling).

I suppose over here it just never gets that cold (applying the brakes quickly is enough to shed any ice, and takes quite a while to get back), it gets stupidly wet but never had any problem with that.

Just curious though, whats stoppping the disk from getting a thin layer of ice on it?

ItsJustMe: Thanks for first-hand information and experience with disc brakes. :thumb:

http://devinci.ca/11628_an.html ...is a Devinci touring bike with disc brakes

Looks sweet.

http://devinci.ca/11628_an.html ...is a Devinci touring bike with disc brakes

Holy wah... look at the range on that baby. 11-34R/30-52F

Main problems with disc brakes on a commuter :
- They make noise
- The discs are easily bent (although it's relatively easy to correct)
- They're not that easy to work with

That's what I gather from people who bought bikes at our shop.

To me, the best design is a drum brake (Shimano RollerBrake or SRAM i-brake) which has excellent braking power in the wet, requires less maintenance and make no noise.


I added disc brakes to my Surly 1x1 that I converted into a commuter. I have had none of the problems that you speak of except the noise. Only when the front disc gets wet does it make noise, and only when I use it. It never fails to slow me down though. I find them much easier to work with than V brakes. Much easier. BB7's BTW. I wore out at least two front rims before I switched to disc. Best money I've spent.

Main problems with disc brakes on a commuter :
- They make noise

Mine only make noise when they get wet. After a couple stops they quiet down. I've had cantis and V's that wouldn't shut up no matter how I adjusted them.


- The discs are easily bent (although it's relatively easy to correct)

Meh? I've bent two discs. The first occured during shipping on an eBay bike. The second happened during polo. All kinds of stuff can get messed up during shipping(even steel frames can get bent) so the first one doesn't count. And I doubt most commuters regularly have collisions with wooden walls and other bikes,and get smacked by polo mallets. In both cases I used that Park Tool fork to bend the disc back,no prob.


- They're not that easy to work with

Again,meh? Avid BB7's require no tools. Even on ones that do,all you're doing is moving the pads in and out. There's no up/down,no cant,no toeing in. Way easier than V or canti pads.


That's what I gather from people who bought bikes at our shop.

I call user error on them.


To me, the best design is a drum brake (Shimano RollerBrake or SRAM i-brake) which has excellent braking power in the wet, requires less maintenance and make no noise.

I've dealt with drums on motorcycles. No thank you. Heavy,not very powerful,can fade,no way to inspect them without tearing them apart.

BTW,the Roller brake and iBrake aren't true drum brakes. They're basically cable-actuated coasters.

Please explain. Are you saying these are like the old breezer coaster brakes where you pedal backwards to apply the brake?


BTW,the Roller brake and iBrake aren't true drum brakes. They're basically cable-actuated coasters.

Are you saying that a commuter or road bike will never see any of the conditions you've listed? I'm sorry, but I'm of the opinion that a disc brake cyclocross bike is the cat's meow for a commuter.

I flat love the discs on my MTB and wish I had similar on my road bike.

-R

Aren't road brakes basically discs? They certainly arent from the drum family so. The idea of a disc brake is to have pressure being applied from both sides unlike drums that rely on the structural integrity of the drum to back it up. I think they are discs with HUGE rotors.

i commute with discs brakes and notice an over-all improvement from my old rim brake bike. they don't make more noise than rim brakes, but maybe a slightly different squeal, when they make noise at all (they're mostly silent); i also find that they're not any harder or easier to work with than rim brakes, but ymmv.

down steep grade wet hills, in the snow/slush/ice, traffic round me, it's one less thing to worry about.

another reason i really like them is that when hauling a load, whether it be panniers loaded down with books, and/or with a trailer attached, breaking is much more reliable. the weight still increases brake time, but braking is consistent and solid.

they can get awfully hot under prolonged use; you can steam water off of them (though i can't recommend that). but there's no reason to get off your bike and grab the disc directly after braking.

imo, they're a brilliant no-brainer option. i won't go back to rim brakes.

Aren't road brakes basically discs? They certainly arent from the drum family so. The idea of a disc brake is to have pressure being applied from both sides unlike drums that rely on the structural integrity of the drum to back it up. I think they are discs with HUGE rotors.

Absolutely. Any rim brake is a disc brake.

Absolutely. Any rim brake is a disc brake.

That's a stretch.

1: rim brake has no stationary pad
2: stops via the rim surface

Both the above are departures from what is the recognized design for discs. If you're splitting hairs, sure. But for the sake of the OP's question they're different.

-R

That's a stretch.

1: rim brake has no stationary pad
2: stops via the rim surface

Both the above are departures from what is the recognized design for discs. If you're splitting hairs, sure. But for the sake of the OP's question they're different.

-R

Who says that a disk brake needs a stationary pad? The only reason that disks have a stationary pad is to simplify the brake system. A disk brake is a spinning disk that you use a friction pad against to slow or stop a vehicle. The only difference between a 'disk' brake and a rim brake is the size and thickness of the disk. They both work in exactly the same way. A caliper squeezes on the the surface to apply friction.

No hair splitting needed because they are exactly the same.

Please explain. Are you saying these are like the old breezer coaster brakes where you pedal backwards to apply the brake?

In function,yes. Internally they operate the same way,and both require a torque arm that connects the hub to the frame. It's just that coasters are actuated by reverse-pedalling where as rollers use a cable. You can search around for exploded diagrams and see the similarites.

BTW,coasters are still in production. My '07 Swobo Otis has one.

They both work in exactly the same way. A caliper squeezes on the the surface to apply friction.

No hair splitting needed because they are exactly the same.

I can't believe you folks are arguing about discs and rims being the same. :rolleyes:

I'll send you a used set of pads from my M495's. Please install them in your V brakes and report back with the results. :p

Disc brakes rule! Racks & fenders are easily done and discs are easily adjusted, quiet (except when it's pouring rain) and durable. I just changed my pads after about 7-8k miles, I estimate. The rotors are still going strong. I think there's just a bias at a lot of bike shops against them. It doesn't fit the chic 700x23 carbon fiber, 24-spoke road-bike culture. Very few people understand why my bike is set-up the way it is and most mechanics don't do a respectable job on the rare occassions that I take it in.

Getting back to the original questions, I did a fabulous nose wheelie when a pedestrian stepped off of a bus in front of me. The rear brake doesn't lock the wheel very easily, though, because disc brakes have so much modulation and require less hand force. I'm dreaming of a hydraulic brifter.