Cyclocross - Help with 1st bike for the wife!

I recently purchased a used cross bike and now my wife wants in on the action! I couldn't be happier because I think she'll really enjoy it and now she may understand my desire for more gear a little better. We're both beginners in nearly every sense but I've been doing as much research as possible. I've been to all the LBS's in my area and I've found I simply won't be able to afford what we're looking for right now. The 5 year plan would be to survive with used bikes and buy new down the line if this sticks and we have the money. Anyways, I welcome any and all feedback.

I'd love to get her something with 105 components for around $1000. Right now I'm considering 3 bikes. 2 are on Ebay and the other would come from Bikes Direct. I've done some tinkering and a bit of assembly on my bike so that aspect of things doesn't really scare me. A bit of info on my wife. She's about 5'5.5''. I think her inseam is 30.5 although I'll need to double check that. I know it would be best for her to try bikes out for herself and we may try to do that before purchasing. However, we've been told she's likely a 52 in most models. This seems a hair big to me but the next size down is often a 49 so maybe they are right. Anyways, here are the links. Any of these jump out as a good deal for what we are looking for? Any other tips? Thanks in advance.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=400004094493

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=140277787889

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_pro.htm (maybe not the pro)

my wife is 5'6" and we went with a 52 motobecane phantom cx. she wanted a geared bike as her second bike, and liked the idea of a cross bike, though she'd never ridden with drop bars before... her other bike is a single speed peugeot mixte with nitto albatross bars.

the motobecane frame seemed to fit her well, though the stock bars and stem had waay too much reach for her. i ended up swapping the bars for some short and shallow fsa omega bars, and a 90mm 35 deg. stem, which raised her bars up high enough for her to be comfortable (they're even with her saddle... if not a touch higher), and with a effective extension of about 70mm, due to the large angle. seems to fit her great now.

the more upright position we created is more comfortable to her. she's not really a sporty sort of rider, if you will. she mainly just commutes with her bikes. i mention all of this because you said your wife is a "beginner" to bikes, and might find the "road" position on a bike uncomfortable or weird.

if you're in doubt of which size to get, i'd go with the larger. the problem with a frame that is too small is getting the bars high enough.

the motobecane frame seemed to fit her well, though the stock bars and stem had waay too much reach for her.
...
if you're in doubt of which size to get, i'd go with the larger. the problem with a frame that is too small is getting the bars high enough.

I strongly disagree with the idea of going larger. Women generally have shorter torsos, shorter reaches and smaller hands for their height, then men do. That's why you see women specific frames. There are all kinds of options to manage handlebar height without resorting to bigger frame height.

1. Buy a frame with a taller headset (often called relaxed geometry)
2. Get a longer steering tube and add some spacers
3. Add a stem with a steep angle tilted up.

Its a bad deal to have a bike too big which means you are stretched out too far and your weight distribution is unbalanced. I rode a bike that was too big for two years. It felt great when I got it, but as I rode more frequently and longer distances, it became uncomfortable. Today I ride a bike that fits me like a glove and its two sizes smaller. I went through an elaborate fitmaster fitting that led to the truth about what size bike I needed.

It sounds to me like you got a man's frame that is too big for your wife. Handlebar height is a lot more of an issue if the bike is fit incorrectly. I now ride with the hoods 3.5 inches below the saddle and I am perfectly comfortable. I was never able to do that on my former bigger bike.

Bob

everyone's fit is definitely specific. perhaps i shouldn't have been so eager to stress the larger frame, but i've suffered from the opposite as you... riding too small of bike. i also have about 3" drop from saddle to bars on my cross bike. probably about 3.5 on my road bike.

my wife's prior cross bike was also too small. the motobecane was a replacement bike because we initially went with a 46 soma double cross, due to it's 52.6 effective top tube. her peugeot mixte fits her well and she feels comfortable, but it has a 55 top tube, though also has a short reach stem and swept back cruiser bars... to account for those factors, we went with a shorter top tube for a similar saddle to hand position idea. her 52 motobecane has a 52.9 top tube.

she felt the soma fit her terribly, due to the drop from the saddle to the bars. we had a good two inches of spacers, in addition to the added stack height of the cable hanger. she wasn't too stretched out or cramped per se, she just felt leaned too far forward and was getting wrist pains after very short rides. the drop from saddle to bars was maybe around 2.5 inches? i don't remember exactly. again, she's not a "sporty" or aggressive rider, so another reason she probably feels better on her current setup. i suppose it was also the problem of soma's tending to be long in the top tube for the height of the bike. this was also prior to her breast reduction, which caused her all sorts of body pain... especially leaning over on the bike.

women definitely tend to have shorter hands, torso, and arms. probably why she felt like crap with the drop from her saddle to bars on her soma, and also why she was too stretched out on the motobecane with the stock 100mm stem and stock bars with 100mm of reach.

i am by no means a fit expert, but after much trial and error, she feels good about her fit. my friend does a fitting service independently and also works at barnett's; she thinks the bike looks like it fits her well, but really just at a glance. we didn't go through a fit session or anything. that was next if the shorter stem and shorter bars didn't help. :)

I recently purchased a used cross bike and now my wife wants in on the action! I couldn't be happier because I think she'll really enjoy it and now she may understand my desire for more gear a little better. We're both beginners in nearly every sense but I've been doing as much research as possible. I've been to all the LBS's in my area and I've found I simply won't be able to afford what we're looking for right now. The 5 year plan would be to survive with used bikes and buy new down the line if this sticks and we have the money. Anyways, I welcome any and all feedback.

I'd love to get her something with 105 components for around $1000. Right now I'm considering 3 bikes. 2 are on Ebay and the other would come from Bikes Direct. I've done some tinkering and a bit of assembly on my bike so that aspect of things doesn't really scare me. A bit of info on my wife. She's about 5'5.5''. I think her inseam is 30.5 although I'll need to double check that. I know it would be best for her to try bikes out for herself and we may try to do that before purchasing. However, we've been told she's likely a 52 in most models. This seems a hair big to me but the next size down is often a 49 so maybe they are right. Anyways, here are the links. Any of these jump out as a good deal for what we are looking for? Any other tips? Thanks in advance.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=400004094493

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=140277787889

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_pro.htm (maybe not the pro)

Fit is extremely important. I suggest that you do some measurements at http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO to get a good idea on size, and most important is the top tube length. All bikes have different size standards. For example, I ride a top tube of between 51.5 to 53cm - any short variances can be adjusted by the stem. This meant that on my road bike, I ride a 51cm frame, but on my cross bike, I ride a 46cm frame.

Bikesdirect does have some good deals, and even Performance Bike has a good deal on their Scattante CX 560, and a K2 Enemy - they always go on sale and have been down to $850 just less than 2 months ago. For sure, you should be able to get either of them for $900.

One other thing to consider is gearing. I know you mentioned you want 105 - this means 10 speed gearing. The negative of 10 speed gearing is you won't be able to fit mountain bike cassettes - i.e. have rear chain rings as big as 32 to 34. You may actually consider a 9 speed bike, allowing you to take advantage of low, low gears. Good luck!

she felt the soma fit her terribly, due to the drop from the saddle to the bars. we had a good two inches of spacers, in addition to the added stack height of the cable hanger. she wasn't too stretched out or cramped per se, she just felt leaned too far forward and was getting wrist pains after very short rides.

This is more likely a lack of flexibility or unconditioned abdominal core, rather than fit. Though I ride very comfortably with my handlebars dropped, I surely could not have been comfortable when I first began riding 3 years ago. But I have a stronger core and much more flexibility today. You have to have core strength to partially get the weight off your hands.

So that doesn't mean it could have ever been right for your wife. Thanks for giving further information. My wife could never ride with dropped bars as well due to fused vertebrae in her lower and upper back. We had to very careful to get her a bike fit that keeps her back reasonably straight. She rides a 44 cm Specialized Ruby with bars level with the seat.

Best regards,
Bob

You have to have core strength to partially get the weight off your hands.This is ridiculous.

Pedaling hard is what keeps weight off your hands. If you are using your back muscles to lift weight off of your hands, something is seriously wrong with the fit, and you are wasting energy.

my wife's prior cross bike was also too small. If you had all those spacers and still had drop from saddle to bars, I agree that the bike was too small.

I'll wager a guess that you chose that frame because you wanted the ETT as short as possible? I've noticed that there is a trend (probably picked up from mountain bike sizing) to choose frames based solely on ETT. But the actual cockpit dimensions depend on a combination of ETT and seat tube. (Since BB drop is pretty similar from maker to maker, you can also use headtube length as a proxy for the height of the bike.)

So people obsess over a 1cm change in top tube, which could easily be adjusted for (if necessary) with a slightly smaller stem, but ignore the vertical dimension. So you see these bikes with tons of spacers, riser stem, etc, because the frame was too small to begin with.

most of the women who started cyclocross
liked to have as a beginner :
-a lot of headsetspacer, you can go deeper in stages.
- a very short stem.you can go longer ,after a while . my wife started with a 50 mm stem.
-good brakes like -mini-v. remember they don’t have the braking power .
-wider handlebars than they should have.
-komfotable wide tires
-sometimes a suspension seatpost , if they have one ,they loose teir fear to jump on .you can remove later
-low gears , my wife has a 29/44 crankset ,sometimes with a 11-32 cassette . every short derailleur do that .
- 80 % like to have extra brakelevers on the handlebar .

]

This is more likely a lack of flexibility or unconditioned abdominal core, rather than fit.
i agree core strength is super important to your fit and comfort, but my wife does yoga on average of 5 times a week. her core is probably stronger than mine, and she is DEFINITELY more flexible than i am. again, she commutes with her bikes and that's pretty much it. she doesn't ride for sport, she rides for utility and leisure. the drop issue was also about her personal comfort. also, if your wife rides with her seat and bars level, why did you make such a fuss over saddle to bar height?


I'll wager a guess that you chose that frame because you wanted the ETT as short as possible?

i was definitely obsessing over top tube length, especially with her soma. at the time, i was really stuck on a soma for her... but the larger sizes that would fit her height better, just seemed too damn long in the tt. the somas are deceiving too, since the top tubes are so long for how tall or short the bikes are. i was also stuck on a frameset, as i had a decent surplus of parts.

aside from the price, i liked the motobecane due to the frame geometry. a friend of mine also bought a 52, which fits him great. he's 5'7". she test rode his and it seemed like it would work with some adjustments. we set hers up with a 0 setback seatpost; the 'thom' and a third of the 's' are visible. she has probably a bit more than an inch of spacers including her hanger, then her 30 degree 90mm stem, which is about 70mm in the effective length. (i double checked it... i first thought it was 35.)

i also tend to obsess with handlebar height. i personally had all sorts of problems with my kinesis made "douglas" cross bike. i bought it rashly in the sense that it was a super great deal and it was a 64 c-t with a 58.5 top tube (which i like), so i wagered it would fit me. i'm 6'4", so i ride tall bikes. well, that bike was a fit nightmare for me. the headtube was only 150 mm, not including headset stack height, so i had to run a huge amount of spacers, that still didn't get the bars high enough using a 6 deg. rise stem. i ended up running a 17 deg. rise stem and a few less spacers, which made it fit decently. i've replaced that frame with a 60 c-c ridley, which fits me well. it has a 225 headtube, though that extra height is also on account of the internal headset and high bb. including my hanger, i have 30mm of spacers and a 6 deg. rise stem.

i hope i'm not blathering too much, but i really obsess over how my bikes fit. i guess my douglas is what really made me so aware of fit issues, then also getting a cross bike that fit my wife decently.

This is ridiculous.

Pedaling hard is what keeps weight off your hands. If you are using your back muscles to lift weight off of your hands, something is seriously wrong with the fit, and you are wasting energy.

You're uninformed. A lot of people would disagree with you.

Bob

You're uninformed. A lot of people would disagree with you.Next time you are riding, try this experiment. With hands at the brake hoods, and pedaling hard, simultaneously move both hands to the drops. It's quite easy. Now try doing the same thing while coasting. You have to move one hand at a time, because your weight is supported by your hands. It's the pedaling that is keeping your weight off of your hands. Of course your core muscles are supporting the pedaling motion, but you are not doing a backlift to keep your weight off of your hands.

Next time you are riding, try this experiment. With hands at the brake hoods, and pedaling hard, simultaneously move both hands to the drops. It's quite easy. Now try doing the same thing while coasting. You have to move one hand at a time, because your weight is supported by your hands. It's the pedaling that is keeping your weight off of your hands. Of course your core muscles are supporting the pedaling motion, but you are not doing a backlift to keep your weight off of your hands.

I never said core muscles did it all by themselves. I meant the core conditioning is an important factor in getting the weight off your hands. Its engineering mechanics 101. Your legs are not attached to your arms and therefore cannot lift weight off your hands directly. The force exerted by your legs must be transmitted through your torso to your arms. If your core is out of shape, the leg force cannot be relayed to your arms and hands effectively. I would venture to say that the force exerted by your legs through your torso is very much akin to a backlift.

Bob

i agree core strength is super important to your fit and comfort, but my wife does yoga on average of 5 times a week. her core is probably stronger than mine, and she is DEFINITELY more flexible than i am. again, she commutes with her bikes and that's pretty much it.

I submit that a road bike with drop handlebars is a sporting machine. Nobody hops on one and feels good the first time they ride, no matter how good the fit or how much yoga they do. You have to ride to allow the subtle adjustments and conditioning to occur to make you more comfortable. You wife could triple how much yoga she does and never adapt to a bike without getting in some riding time.

When I talked about how I am comfortable with an aggressive riding position, I did not mean that your wife should or would ever be comfortable in that position. I would be very surprised if you said she liked it the first time she rode it. When my LBS fitter calculated the dimensions for aggressive fit for me, he said upfront - "this will fit the dimensions of your body but you may not have the flexibility to be comfortable with it. If not, then we'll have to work out a different geometry to fit you."

I had significant soreness (not pain) in my lower back when I first rode the Cervelo. My muscles were not used to this new position. After two weeks (about 300 miles), the soreness completely went away without any changes in bike fit.

My wife had a lot of neck and shoulder pain when she first started riding her road bike. But she was highly motivated to make it work because she wanted to go fast. After a month of riding, her pain completely disappeared.

My daughter had a lot of lower back pain when she first started riding her custom fit Guru tri-bike in the aggressive "flat back" tri-athlete bike position, even though she had been doing triathlons for two years. She did a lot of flexibility and core exercises for three months and rode a lot. In her words, she finally got comfortable with the aggressive position for racing. She had to ride with the handlebars higher at first but eventually worked down to efficient lower position she wanted.

If your wife just wants to commute, I submit that a road bike may be the wrong bike style for her.

Bob

I would venture to say that the force exerted by your legs through your torso is very much akin to a backlift.Ride your bike to the gym, do some back extensions, and get back to me.

Ride your bike to the gym, do some back extensions, and get back to me.

Why are you talking about working out in the gym? I was talking about force transmission. not exercises.

Get on your bike and try to completely relax your abdomen while pedaling hard to get the weight off your hands. Doesn't work does it?

I submit that a road bike with drop handlebars is a sporting machine. Nobody hops on one and feels good the first time they ride, no matter how good the fit or how much yoga they do. You have to ride to allow the subtle adjustments and conditioning to occur to make you more comfortable. You wife could triple how much yoga she does and never adapt to a bike without getting in some riding time.
sure, but the stem and the reach of the original bars were too long, regardless. do i need a certificate to prove it? she was too stretched out. i replaced them and she feels comfortable. this may come as a shock, but bikesdirect didn't fit my wife to her bike. we ordered it on the interwebz hub, and it was sent to our house. in a box. made of cardboard. we had to open it first. shoud i have used scissors or a knife? crap! have i made a mistake!?

now that she has bars with a reasonable amount of reach, especially considering her hand size, she's comfortable with drops and enjoys riding the bike. the end.


When I talked about how I am comfortable with an aggressive riding position, I did not mean that your wife should or would ever be comfortable in that position. I would be very surprised if you said she liked it the first time she rode it.
or course. but, her previous bike was too damn small, no matter what. she wasn't comfortable. we replaced it with a better fitting one that doesn't require 2 inches of spacers to still be ill fitting. now she's comfortable. the end.


If your wife just wants to commute, I submit that a road bike may be the wrong bike style for her.

i submit you're a turd. i also submit she can commute on which ever bike she chooses to. i mainly commute with the cross bike i also race. i also commute on my road bike. rarely, i even commute on my track racing bike or my beach cruiser, yet there are no beaches here. is that foolish? what have i done!?

but what does it matter? i'm not asking anyone for advice here. i was trying to offer suggestions to the original poster, as his wife would be new to riding and is the same height as my wife, and might possibly be ordering the same bike. the end. you can wait til he responds so you can windbag him into obilivion.

now that she has bars with a reasonable amount of reach, especially considering her hand size, she's comfortable with drops and enjoys riding the bike.

I'm glad to hear it. Sorry if I offended you. I apparently did.

Bob