Commuting - Muirwoods 29er evolution (many pics)

I'm continuing to update this thread as I do new stuff to this bike. This weekend (February 2010) I rebuilt it as a monster crosser. See post 51 for details and the 5.0 picture in this post for a quick glimpse.


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oiringal post (more or less) below
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I just finished the latest round of upgrades to my Marin Muirwoods 29er and thought I'd post a series of pics showing the progression.

The original state:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2147/2508801030_ab75c96784_b.jpg

Version 2.0 (May 2008):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/2503818543_ffb48d1317_o.jpg

Version 3.0 (November 2008):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2351/2997465086_f453c6c660_o.jpg

Version 4.0 (February 2009):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3421/3286546736_fa9ce2a930_o.jpg

Version 5.0 (February 2010):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2771/4341287638_aa14babdf3_o.jpg


The biggest 3.0 upgrade was from this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2996622801_b2596d3af5.jpg

to this (front and rear):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3283/2996623807_5831312f88.jpg

Better lighting? No, Avid BB5 to Avid BB7. I also upgraded the brake levers from "3 finger alloy" (i.e. something so cheap no one was even willing to put their name on it) to Avid Speed Dial SLs. The silver brake levers kind of spoil the Muirwoods' stealth color scheme, but I already had a few patches of silver, and I got the SLs for $6 cheaper than I was able to find the blackish Speed Dial 7's. So, while I'm not a weight weenie, if I can save $6 while also shaving 25 grams or so, I'll take it.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3154/2997465222_65621f7ef7.jpg

I probably should have changed the brake levers before also changing the brakes. That way I'd be able to say for sure how much each one accounted for the difference in feel. The difference in feel is amazing.

Other 3.0 upgrades included a move to the Specialized Avatar saddle:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3183/2997465304_7db8725873.jpg

and Profile Designs Boxer bar ends with Lizard Skins bar end grips.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/2996623093_383606243f_o.jpg

The web descriptions I found of the Lizard Skins grips say "cut to fit", but they fit the Boxers with no trimming required. When I put the bar ends on, I had to find a new position for my Mountain Mirrycle mirror, but that's working out pretty well.

Details on more recent updates below (because Bike Forums didn't like more than 10 pics in a post).

I just finished the latest round of upgrades to my Marin Muirwoods 29er and thought I'd post a series of pics showing the progression.

The original state:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2147/2508801030_ab75c96784_b.jpg

Version 2.0:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/2503818543_ffb48d1317_o.jpg

And as of this afternoon:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2351/2997465086_f453c6c660_o.jpg

The biggest recent upgrade was from this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2996622801_b2596d3af5.jpg

to this (front and rear):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3283/2996623807_5831312f88.jpg

Better lighting? No, Avid BB5 to Avid BB7. I also upgraded the brake levers from "3 finger alloy" (i.e. something so cheap no one was even willing to put their name on it) to Avid Speed Dial SLs. The silver brake levers kind of spoil the Muirwoods' stealth color scheme, but I already had a few patches of silver, and I got the SLs for $6 cheaper than I was able to find the blackish Speed Dial 7's. So, while I'm not a weight weenie, if I can save $6 while also shaving 25 grams or so, I'll take it.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3154/2997465222_65621f7ef7.jpg

I probably should have changed the brake levers before also changing the brakes. That way I'd be able to say for sure how much each one accounted for the difference in feel. So far, I've only taken it out on a brief test ride, but the difference in feel is amazing.

Other recent upgrades include a move to the Specialized Avatar saddle:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3183/2997465304_7db8725873.jpg

and Profile Designs Boxer bar ends with Lizard Skins bar end grips.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/2996623093_383606243f_o.jpg

The web descriptions I found of the Lizard Skins grips say "cut to fit", but they fit the Boxers with no trimming required. When I put the bar ends on, I had to find a new position for my Mountain Mirrycle mirror, but that's working out pretty well.

I rather have some shiney bits tha might reflect so a cager can see me then be all black and a grease spot on the road. I really wish Maufacturers would go back to the bright neon schemes of the '80s.

At what point does a "29er" become a regular 700c bike?

At what point does a "29er" become a regular 700c bike?

Well above the tire size this one has. It's obviously not "really" a 29er. It came with 29x1.6 tires (42mm). I would say you need more than 2 inches to call it a 29er. Knobby tread would help too. I think Marin calls it an "urban 29er". Don't you love marketing? :)

Well below the tire size this one has. It's obviously not "really" a 29er. It came with 29x1.6 tires (42mm). I would say you need more than 2 inches to call it a 29er. Knobby tread would help too. I think Marin calls it an "urban 29er". Don't you love marketing? :)


LOL - that's exactly what I was thinking! I really hate the 29er name. I mean, as a nickname it's fine but it's sorta become an "official" name. Then they come in and call a plain old (albeit nice - don't get me wrong, I ride a Marin MTB frankenstein'd into a commuter) 700c commuter bike a 29er......anyhow, enough of my ranting. Don't want to sound like I don't like your bike - I do.

I rather have some shiney bits tha might reflect so a cager can see me then be all black and a grease spot on the road. I really wish Maufacturers would go back to the bright neon schemes of the '80s.

Yeah, but when I'm wearing my hi-vis yellow jacket and safety orange helmet at night the all-black bike makes me look like I'm floating. :D

You have good taste in bikes. Very nice.

I was wondering how much bigger is that tire than my touring bike wheel that 700c? Is a 29' inch wheel bigger than lets say a Surly Cross Check?

I'd say the distinction refers loosely to how much rubber the frame can clear. Greater thn 48mm or so and it's a 29er. My cyclocross bike isn't a 29er, and my friend's Specialized Transition TT bike definately isn't, but my Redline d660 is for sure.

How exactly did you mount the rack? I can't see braze-ons on the seat stay in the first picture. Did you use clips?

How exactly did you mount the rack? I can't see braze-ons on the seat stay in the first picture. Did you use clips?

The seat stays have braze-ons, as does the fork incidentally, but the bolts aren't in on the marketing picture -- part of the stealth color scheme I suppose. So, it was a very straightforward braze-on mount.

I'd say the distinction refers loosely to how much rubber the frame can clear. Greater thn 48mm or so and it's a 29er. My cyclocross bike isn't a 29er, and my friend's Specialized Transition TT bike definately isn't, but my Redline d660 is for sure.

The tires are 622-42. Fairly wide by normal 700c road standards, I guess. I like them a lot. At about 50 psi, they provide a pretty soft ride.

I'd say the distinction refers loosely to how much rubber the frame can clear. Greater thn 48mm or so and it's a 29er. My cyclocross bike isn't a 29er, and my friend's Specialized Transition TT bike definately isn't, but my Redline d660 is for sure.

By that measure, I suppose this bike justifies the 29er label. With the 29x1.6 tires, there is a lot of room left over. But notice that Continental is playing along with a very visible "29 inch" splash of yellow text on the tires.

gnarly. i like it.

You have good taste in bikes. Very nice.

I was wondering how much bigger is that tire than my touring bike wheel that 700c? Is a 29' inch wheel bigger than lets say a Surly Cross Check?

No. They're exactly the same. It's simply a marketing thing. And no offense to anyone but it's just silly for anybody other than a bicycle marketer to even try to defend it as anything else. All it is is a fatty 700c tire.


I'd say the distinction refers loosely to how much rubber the frame can clear. Greater thn 48mm or so and it's a 29er. My cyclocross bike isn't a 29er, and my friend's Specialized Transition TT bike definately isn't, but my Redline d660 is for sure.

By that measure a 700c Rivendell Atlantis is a "29er". Please......

Like Andy says, Continental is playing along with the marketing game. It's a city tire in a pretty normal - if on the largish side - cyclocross size. It's just marketing folks! You can tell Andy's smart enough to know it's just a 700c bike built to take a fairly fat tire but marketed in that way to people know just enough to know the 29er buzz word. Put down a nice bike labeled "700c" that'll take nice fat tires next to a less-nice bike labeled "29er" that'll take the exact same tire and 8 out of 10 BF members would take the 29er. :rolleyes:

I agree GV27. It's basically a 700c mountain bike. I have a Orbea 29er and mounted my cyclocross tires on it. Does that now make it a cyclocross bike? My cyclocross bike has 700c wheels but can't take the 2.3 Big Apples that I mount from time-to-time on the 29er. Wish I had rack mounts on that bike, it'd be a blast to take on a commute. Granted, much, much slower.

Edit: Andy, love your bike. That thing looks bulletproof. Bet it'd be great on a tour.

The funny thing is, I almost didn't get it because it was a "29er". At the time I saw it, I didn't know that 29er = 700c, and I was worried that I wouldn't be able to get non-knobby replacement tires. Every search I did for 29er tires was bringing back big knobby monsters, and the Continental site didn't list the Town Ride that came on this bike. It was only after I figured out that 29er was just a marketing label that I felt sure this was the right bike for my purposes.

and Profile Designs Boxer bar ends with Lizard Skins bar end grips.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/2996623093_383606243f_o.jpg

I've been thinking about making a similar upgrade to my bike.

Nice ride!!!

The Feburary 2009 (4.0) upgrades included a completely new drive train:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/3285728709_7b8fc2ed9f.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3149/3286546698_6c4e44a7cf.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/3285728721_d49a07cf90.jpg?v=0

I know, it's probably a bit gratuitous for this frame, but I found some good deals.

I also upgraded the head light (NiteRider Classic Select) and the shifters:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/3286546638_1e598fb095.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/3286546710_abbdb56027.jpg?v=0

(If Wall-E had been a bike....)

Nice bike. Good upgrades. Now buy a clamp to go on the seat post to straighten out the rack mounts :) No offense, but to me aesthetically they just scream out.

The Feburary 2009 (4.0) upgrades included a completely new drive train:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/3285728709_7b8fc2ed9f.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3149/3286546698_6c4e44a7cf.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/3285728721_d49a07cf90.jpg?v=0

I know, it's probably a bit gratuitous for this frame, but I found some good deals.

I also upgraded the head light (NiteRider Classic Select) and the shifters:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/3286546638_1e598fb095.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/3286546710_abbdb56027.jpg?v=0

(If Wall-E had been a bike....)


I like. A lot!!!

I totally agree about Wall-E.

Nice. I ordered one a month ago, but before it arrived I became smitten with a Giant Seek1. In the end, I had to scratch my IGH itch.

I went with those small ergo bar ends for aesthetics, but find that I really miss having a Mirrycle. Seeing your rig, I am thinking about switching bar ends. Thanks for the pics.

Nice bike. Good upgrades. Now buy a clamp to go on the seat post to straighten out the rack mounts :) No offense, but to me aesthetically they just scream out.

You know, that bugs me too whenever I look at the pictures, but for some reasons I don't notice it looking at the actual bike, so I've never gotten around to fixing it.

You know, that bugs me too whenever I look at the pictures, but for some reasons I don't notice it looking at the actual bike, so I've never gotten around to fixing it.


All's good :) Great job on the bike. Just that drew my eye straight to it.. I have a 29'er also, it was an issue for me on mine also. :thumb:

My LBS is tempting me with one of these. If I were to replace my hybrid this would probably be it.

What brand/model of fenders are those? I have the same bike. So far, i dig it, but I need to make it more commute friendly. I figure the fenders would be a good place to start.

Maybe next will be a suspension seatpost, or a fatter butt. The seat doesn't do much for me.

Yeah, I didn't care much for the stock saddle either.

The fenders are SKS P50, but I've gotta say I'm not happy with them. SKS claims they work with either 26" or 700c, but on this bike they don't really come down far enough in the back and my back ends up covered in road grime every time it rains.

I'm due for new tires, so I think I'm going to go wider (29x2.0 Marathon Supremes, if I can find them) and try the Planet Bike Cascadia 29er fenders. I decided those were too wide for the stock tires on the Muirwoods, but I should have seen that the spirit of this bike is wider tires, not narrower fenders. :)

BTW, the real trick to the fenders on this bike is proper front mounting. I did it with a common zinc T-plate from the local hardware store, wrapped in black duct tape and held in place with old reflector brackets.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/2503818631_280c075d0c_o.jpg


I should also mention for the benefit of anyone stumbling across this in the archives that I ended up returning the NiteRider headlight because it comes with a charger that more or less requires you to drain the battery completely before recharging to avoid overcharging.

Oh sweet!

I have two different sets of the Planet Bike Cascadia Fenders. They are superb.

Summer configuration: now it's a 29er.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2167/3536292766_dbf9fb8099_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2017/3536289348_1c7c098ef6_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2380/3536292778_e047c48cb5.jpg

Summer configuration: now it's a 29er.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2167/3536292766_dbf9fb8099_o.jpg


Kinda looks a bit like my Hardrock (though not a 29er) now that I've installed the new ridge fork. I see you've added a good many spacers; I'm going to do this also to bring the bars up a bit for commuting. I may also add straight bars to mine so they're moved forward a bit more than the curved bars I currently have on the bike. With a few modifications I'm beginning to like my mtn bike as a commuter. I like not having to fear potholes along the way too.

I like it.

Hello Andy,
I have a question to ask you. I have a Marin Muirwoods and the handle bar is 27.4 inches across from end to end. I am thinking of shorten it a bit, may be by 2 inches, but yours looks fine with all accessories mounted.
I am wonder how wide is your handle bar from bar-end to bar-end?
Thanks,
-G

Yeah, I had REI cut the handlebar down when I bought it, 'cause it was HUGE (like 27.4 inches or something ;)). I just measured it, and it's 22.5 inches now.

Thanks!
Your bike is very nice looking after your accessorized touch. This post is very helpful for people who want to add personality to their bike and you did good reporting the progress.
-G

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2380/3536292778_e047c48cb5.jpg

I've got to point out, just for fun, that this tire is 35 grams lighter than a 700x28 Schwalbe Marathon Plus.

Hello, I am a happy owner of Muirwoods 29 2008 myself and I'm enjoying it a lot.

Changed the saddle for Brooks Flyer and handlebar for Easton EA50...

I have two sets of tires for it: Big Apples 2.35 (oh yes) and Ignitors.

I had to dismount the front derailleur though to put any of those new tires... My dealer put some Sram derailleur on that bike for some reason and the thing just didn't let the back wheel spin, when I installed my new tires.

Really glad to find a fellow Muirwoods 29 owner, who's upgrading his bike that much!

Can you please answer me a couple of questions?

1) Which front derailleur are you using? Is there enough space between Ignitors and your front derailleur?

2) Have you possibly weighted that X-Flow Crankset, which originally came with the bike? I'm about to get new cranks myself (I'm torn between Shimano SLX, XT M771 and Truvativ Team mostly because of the color - I want to retain that stealth look), so have the riding experience improved greatly with new cranks? I mean really noticeable difference? Because those basic cranks haven't failed on me yet...

I even think of getting a Dura Ace crankset but that still seems like bike mechanic's nightmare.

3) How do you like your new brakes? Adjusting those BB5 is really a headache.. I've been messing with them for quite some tim and still can't find the point where stopping power combines with the lack of squeak they produce sometimes. What are the noticeable riding improvements, that come with those BB7's?

4) Did you manage to get those Cascadia fenders? Do they fit fine? Especially with wider tires?

By the way, if you can mount Ignitors with no problems, it means that Big Apples 2,35 can fit as well, so if you ever thought of going with those sleek monsters, give them a try, they really change the ride.

1) Which front derailleur are you using? Is there enough space between Ignitors and your front derailleur?

I'm using an XT M770 low mount front derailleur. The spacing is a little tight with the Ignitors, but the frame clearance is really the tightest spot.

Here's what it looks like:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2226/3535533730_ba835c9640_o.jpg



2) Have you possibly weighted that X-Flow Crankset, which originally came with the bike? I'm about to get new cranks myself (I'm torn between Shimano SLX, XT M771 and Truvativ Team mostly because of the color - I want to retain that stealth look), so have the riding experience improved greatly with new cranks? I mean really noticeable difference? Because those basic cranks haven't failed on me yet...

It's really kind of hard to say. I went from 48/38/28 to 44/32/22, so the difference in gearing was so big that I don't know if I'd be able to pick out other differences. I like external bottom brackets.



3) How do you like your new brakes? Adjusting those BB5 is really a headache.. I've been messing with them for quite some tim and still can't find the point where stopping power combines with the lack of squeak they produce sometimes. What are the noticeable riding improvements, that come with those BB7's?

The BB7's are like night and day next to the BB5's. I put on the Speed Dial brake levers at the same time I switched the brakes, so I don't know if all the difference in braking feel and performance is due to the BB7's, but it does have a much better feel to it now.

Beyond that, the difference in adjusting the brakes when they start to wear down is worth the price of the upgrade by itself. Everything I've found says that after initial setup you should make the adjustment exclusively using the outboard knob, which the BB5 doesn't have. It's as easy as leaning down and turning the knob (which turns much, much easier than the inside knobs). A lot of the time I don't even need to get off the bike.

The pad braking surface is bigger on the BB7 and the choice of replacement pads seems to be better.

I think this was the best bang-for-the-buck upgrade I've made, with the possible exception of the saddle.



4) Did you manage to get those Cascadia fenders? Do they fit fine? Especially with wider tires?

I just got them last week, and I haven't worked out all the kinks, but they're definitely going to work. I found a set of 29x2.1 Schwalbe Marathon Supremes and put them on with the new fenders. The fender fits between the seat stays, but mounting adapter doesn't, so I put a spacer in there and used a longer bolt. I'm not thrilled with that. I've also got a bit of an issue with the rack not providing quite enough clearance.

Here are some pictures:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/3564744482_d2a9f186aa_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3336/3563927051_9a4ca9a496_o.jpg

(I haven't trimmed down the rods yet.)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3564744368_dd10e07db5_o.jpg

Well! Thank you very much indeed!!

The biggest piece of useful information regarding the bicycle I've received in months! You've sold me on everything! My Muirwoods is happy now I guess, opposite is my wallet =)))

Would please elaborate on cranks? How would you describe the difference in gearing / chainrings? Haven't experienced 22/32/44 so I'm a bit hesitant here.. Is it faster / slower? Or what?

Would please elaborate on cranks? How would you describe the difference in gearing / chainrings? Haven't experienced 22/32/44 so I'm a bit hesitant here.. Is it faster / slower? Or what?

At first, it felt slower, but it was just a matter of adjusting my usage pattern. With the old crankset, I spent 95% of my time in the middle chainring, and with a 32-tooth chainring, you really need to wind it out to get much speed out of it, but that's obviously not what you want to do.

The 22-tooth ring on a 44/32/22 crankset really is a true granny gear, meant only to be used as a bail out for very steep climbs, steeper than anything you're likely to meet on a commute. So I had to start thinking of this setup more like a compact double.

Now, I start out from a stop in the 32T gear, but shift almost immediately to the 44T. The net effect is, instead of spending 95% of my time in a 38T gear, I spend 95% of my time in a 44T gear, which ends up being faster on average. (That is, I push myself a little more.)

I got the 44/32/22 setup because I intend to use the bike almost exclusively as a mountain bike in the summer. If I had been planning to use it as a pure commuter, the 48/36/26 might have been the way to go, though that would still have been a step down in the middle ring and not necessarily what I wanted.

Incidentally, I also use a 12-25 or 12-27 cassette for commuting, and that makes the acceleration ramp much smoother and so the bike feels faster.

I forgot to mention that the front derailleur is very tight against the fenders (both the SKS P50s and the Cascadia 29ers), but I don't notice any shifting problems. The old fenders got a bit of a dent in them from being bashed by the derailleur.

Also, I'm not sure how well the 29er fenders would work with 29x2.35 Big Apples. The 29x2.0 Marathon Supremes I'm using actually measure out a bit under 1.9 inches, and the rear fender clearance is tight. It might work with 2.35s but I wouldn't guarantee it.

Andy thank you for posting your upgrades about the Muirwoods 29'er

I have recently bought one and really like it.

I am having trouble installing cascadia fenders, specifically getting clearance on the rear tire towards the back.

Did you run into this? I feel if the fender stays were a 1/2 inch longer I wouldn't have a problem. Currently I am thinking of getting some angle brackets so I can extend their reach.


thanks,

Jon

What size Cascadias and what size tires are you using?

Looking at the picture above, you might be able to see that using the 29er Cascadias with 29x2.0 tires I am at the very end of the lower fender stay. I had to pop off the rubber cap, but I had just enough room. My Muirwoods is the 17" size. It may be that if you have a different size the eyelet is in a slightly different place.

how do you like that niterider? looking for a new light for my future commuter. Oh and sweet bike :)

how do you like that niterider? looking for a new light for my future commuter.

I actually returned it just after posting the pictures. This was the model the Performance sells for around $100.

It was very bright, but I wasn't prepared to deal with the battery hassles. It doesn't come with a smart charger, so you can't just set it to charge and leave it overnight. Apparently, if you overcharge, you risk damaging the battery. Also, to know how long to charge it with anything like accuracy, you have to have it completely drained -- which puts the charge time at something like 8 hours IIRC. You might be able to figure out a safe charge time that works for you, and if so it would be a good value.

I recently got the Dinotte 200L-AA. It's about the same price. It's not as bright as the NiteRider, but still very bright. The first night I used it, I spotted a gray cat from about 50 yards away on a tree-shrouded MUP with no other lighting. Since the DiNotte works with rechargeable AA batteries, it doesn't have nearly the issues the NiteRider did in that regard.

The way I see it, 29er should refer to two things:

1- the rim width. Yes it is a 622mm rim, but at an 18mm width like a regular 700, you would go with 700x30 or something for 28 inch total, but with 28mm width, you would have to go with something like 700x50, for a 29 inch total. Same rim diameter, different total diameter of tire plus rim.

2-for it to be a 29er, it should have some resemblance of mountain bike geometry, like the Surly Karate Monkey, thats a real 29er

nice bike

Great bike.:beer: I always thought 29er was for those of us who couldn't figure out the metric system:twitchy:

What size Cascadias and what size tires are you using?

Looking at the picture above, you might be able to see that using the 29er Cascadias with 29x2.0 tires I am at the very end of the lower fender stay. I had to pop off the rubber cap, but I had just enough room. My Muirwoods is the 17" size. It may be that if you have a different size the eyelet is in a slightly different place.

I have the 17" too, tires are the stock ones that came with it. Continental Town Ride, 29” x 1.6” Urban

Using Cascadia 700 x 45

Already at the very end of the lower fender stay, and its not clearing.

Going to have to add some addtional length, I think I will end up using an angle bracket, or just a straight bracket.

Thanks for the reply.

Jon

Using Cascadia 700 x 45

You can order the 29er stays from Planet Bike. They're 35 mm longer than the stays you have.

http://ecom1.planetbike.com/7029_3.html

well that would of been cheaper then the solution I came up with heh. I spent $8.00 at the hardware store and now the fenders fit fine.

Jon