Training & Nutrition - sustained watage...what are respectable numbers?

with all the threads about watts and how it is probably the best measure of improved fitness/ability.

what are respectable numbers to be able to sustain

I see some guys are able to push 1k+ for a sprint (umd I believe)

but

what would the average person be able to do?

what would be respectable beginning cyclist average

an avid cyclist ?

Cat 1 or 2 racer?

someone racing in the tour sustain?

I'm trying to get a rough idea of what to set for short term intermediate and longer goals

I actually just found this at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance


The average "in-shape" person can produce about 3 watts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt)/kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) for more than an hour (e.g., around 200 watts for a 70 kg rider), with top amateurs producing 5 watts/kg and elite athletes achieving 6 watts/kg for similar lengths of time. Elite track sprinters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_%28race%29) are able to attain an instantaneous maximum output of around 2,000 watts, or in excess of 25 watts/kg; elite road cyclists may produce 1,600 to 1,700 watts as an instantaneous maximum in their burst to the finish line at the end of a five-hour long road race. Even at moderate speeds, most cycling energy is spent in overcoming aerodynamic drag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_%28physics%29), which increases with the square of speed; therefore, power needs increase approximately with the cube of speed.

I'm trying to get a rough idea of what to set for short term intermediate and longer goals

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/profile.asp

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/profile.asp

is FT on that chart what one can maintain for an extended period of time?

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/images/powerprofile_v4.gif

I looked around but didn't really find the answer

is FT on that chart what one can maintain for an extended period of time?

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/images/powerprofile_v4.gif
"Index efforts of 5 s, 1 min, 5 min, and at functional threshold power (see "What is threshold power?" on this website) were chosen ..."
http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/threshold.asp

so in short yes to "is FT on that chart what one can maintain for an extended period of time?"

FT=functional threshhold=max power for one hour

Also, as far as the Wikipedia article goes I'd have to say that the "average in shape person" is probably not producing 3 w/kg for more than an hour. I'd guess that less than 10% of the people you see riding bikes around are doing that. Depends on what you mean by "average" I guess...

my definition of average would be someone who rides a day or 2 a week or commutes a short distance a few times a week

3w/kg for me would mean I'd be pumping out 292.5. I can do 200 watts currently but not for an hour more like 20 mins but you gotta start somewhere.

so it's time to loose some weight and get more power too.

so it's time to loose some weight and get more power too.

Amen.

with all the threads about watts and how it is probably the best measure of improved fitness/ability.

what are respectable numbers to be able to sustain

I see some guys are able to push 1k+ for a sprint (umd I believe)

but

what would the average person be able to do?

what would be respectable beginning cyclist average

an avid cyclist ?

Cat 1 or 2 racer?

someone racing in the tour sustain?

I'm trying to get a rough idea of what to set for short term intermediate and longer goals

Haha, that's funny using my pitiful sprint as an example. :roflmao2:

I actually just found this at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance


The average "in-shape" person can produce about 3 watts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt)/kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) for more than an hour (e.g., around 200 watts for a 70 kg rider), with top amateurs producing 5 watts/kg and elite athletes achieving 6 watts/kg for similar lengths of time. Elite track sprinters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_%28race%29) are able to attain an instantaneous maximum output of around 2,000 watts, or in excess of 25 watts/kg; elite road cyclists may produce 1,600 to 1,700 watts as an instantaneous maximum in their burst to the finish line at the end of a five-hour long road race. Even at moderate speeds, most cycling energy is spent in overcoming aerodynamic drag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_%28physics%29), which increases with the square of speed; therefore, power needs increase approximately with the cube of speed.

Wow...I knew I sucked but...

I hoped I didn't suck that much.

Note that power scales somewhat with weight, so we look at power/weight as watts/kg. So, for what it's worth, since I was used as example... I've had a few single samples over 1000W but my best 5s power is about 950W. I weigh for practical purposes 63kg, so that puts my 5s at the bottom of the "good" range. I can hold a relatively high level for 20-30 seconds but it falls off quickly after than and my 1m power is somewhere in the middle of the "fair" range. My 5min is actually my "strongest" duration, and I don't have my data in front of me right now but I believe it was well into the "very good" range. My FT at my peak was somewhere in middle of the "very good" range but I did not yet have a power meter and with my injury and now kind of "off season" I haven't put in a good test and have only done in the high "good" range.

Haha, that's funny using my pitiful sprint as an example. :roflmao2:

so if your sprint is "pitiful" what would you consider to be a good number?

so if your sprint is "pitiful" what would you consider to be a good number?

Ok, so my sprint is probably better than many BF'rs that don't race, but I always get my ass kicked whenever I am up against anyone who can really sprint, i.e. most people I ride with. First though, you really have to look at more than just the peak number; that gets you a jump, but you have to be able to sustain it. 5s gives you a better idea but really a sprint is going to last a while and it's more important how fast you are going than how much power you are putting out. Anyway, as to what isn't pathetic? Waterrockets can do, what, 1600, something like that? I was talking with a teammate, and although he may have been messing with me, said he could do 1500. A local pro I was talking to said he could do 1800 but that was as a junior and he hadn't used a power meter for a while...

I had a performance assessment done earlier this year as a 48th birthday present. I thought "some present" but it was actually a lot less painful than I anticipated. I came in at 4.3 w/kg at FT which is in the "very good" range.

so if your sprint is "pitiful" what would you consider to be a good number?


That's also dependent on weight. It's about the w/kg. I have done 1600w 5 second sprints before, but I weight almost 90kg. While that puts me solidly in the "Cat 2" sprint range, someone who weighs 165lbs and has a 1325w 5 second sprint has a similar w/kg. I'm hoping to drop down to around 84kg AND keep that sprint power. My threshold is what sucks though at 315w(3.5 w/kg). I'm doing lots of Sweet Spot Training, hoping to be up around 340+ by crit season.

This chart, known as the "e-wang" chart shows the general ranges put out buy tested riders.

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/images/powerprofile_v4.gif

that's the e-wang ?

cripes I am much stronger than I thought

it is the weight I need to trim. power I have. holy crap I am waaaaaaay remotivated

You can have all the power you want. It's results that count.

This chart, known as the "e-wang" chart shows the general ranges put out buy tested riders.

Not exactly. Only the high and low values come from riders and these were not necessarily taken during tests.
http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/profile.asp

The resultant values for intermediate performances were then cross-checked against available data to assure that this approach resulted in valid guidelines.


Ah, I took this "available data" as testing.

That's also dependent on weight. It's about the w/kg. I have done 1600w 5 second sprints before, but I weight almost 90kg. While that puts me solidly in the "Cat 2" sprint range, someone who weighs 165lbs and has a 1325w 5 second sprint has a similar w/kg. I'm hoping to drop down to around 84kg AND keep that sprint power. My threshold is what sucks though at 315w(3.5 w/kg). I'm doing lots of Sweet Spot Training, hoping to be up around 340+ by crit season.

This chart, known as the "e-wang" chart shows the general ranges put out buy tested riders.

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/images/powerprofile_v4.gif

i would think, on a flat sprint, as most finishes are, w/cdA would be more important. i would think the weight difference going from 25 in the peloton to 35 in a field sprint would be trumped by pure power.

i would think, on a flat sprint, as most finishes are, w/cdA would be more important. i would think the weight difference going from 25 in the peloton to 35 in a field sprint would be trumped by pure power.

It's acceleration, weight is still important, but probably less important than on a climb.

So if I understand right 1007W isnt very good max power if you weigh 143 kg? That puts me at about 6.97 w/Kg, right?

if you can hold 400 watts for 30 minutes

then......then.....you got some balzak

So if I understand right 1007W isnt very good max power if you weigh 143 kg? That puts me at about 6.97 w/Kg, right?

One would have to assume that if you weighed 315lbs, a large portion of that would be fat, and therefore although on a pure W/kg scale it would not be much, but I would be somewhat impressed. The thing is, it is basically assumed that athletes that weigh more would have more muscle mass as well, and would therefore generate more power. If a lot of the extra weight is fat and not muscle, then it is not productive and your power would not scale well with your weight. People that are large, tend to need more leg strength just to support their weight and move around, and when they lose the fat seem to have a disproportionately high short-term power/weight because they kept some residual leg strength, but don't necessarily have the endurance to sustain it.

So in short, no, 7 W/kg isn't very good max power, but you have a lot of potential...

One would have to assume that if you weighed 315lbs, a large portion of that would be fat, and therefore although on a pure W/kg scale it would not be much, but I would be somewhat impressed. The thing is, it is basically assumed that athletes that weigh more would have more muscle mass as well, and would therefore generate more power. If a lot of the extra weight is fat and not muscle, then it is not productive and your power would not scale well with your weight. People that are large, tend to need more leg strength just to support their weight and move around, and when they lose the fat seem to have a disproportionately high short-term power/weight because they kept some residual leg strength, but don't necessarily have the endurance to sustain it.

So in short, no, 7 W/kg isn't very good max power, but you have a lot of potential...

Yeah Im a big ol' Clyde, down from 388 last year, and Im guessing the leg strength is from hauling myself around, playing hockey (im imposing to a goalie still, but really was at my biggest weight), and doing racewalking. I just started riding a little over a month ago, and havent had a week over 50 miles yet due to time and now weather. But I just bought a new 08 Fuji to put miles in as soon as the snow goes away.

People that are large, tend to need more leg strength just to support their weight and move around, and when they lose the fat seem to have a disproportionately high short-term power/weight because they kept some residual leg strength, but don't necessarily have the endurance to sustain it.


*raises hand* im at about 200 even now down from 272, looking to be around 185 in spring. huge calves and guads. my legs didnt get much smaller after i dropped the weight, plain and simple. think how big your legs would be with a normal person carrying 75 lbs of weights around every minute every day. i am surprised they didnt atrophy down much after i got smaller though. but i have big short term power (1400+), crummy FTP (235). no climber am i lol.

*raises hand* im at about 200 even now down from 272, looking to be around 185 in spring. huge calves and guads. my legs didnt get much smaller after i dropped the weight, plain and simple. think how big your legs would be with a normal person carrying 75 lbs of weights around every minute every day. i am surprised they didnt atrophy down much after i got smaller though. but i have big short term power (1400+), crummy FTP (235). no climber am i lol.

Yeah, there is a guy that rides with us, he's I think around 190 now but was much bigger. Very powerful (he's broken 4 frames in the last year) and can wind it up really well and get moving but cannot hold it for very long. I can never match his accelerations but I can get up to speed and hold it much longer than he can and catch him, especially on hills when he hits the hills way to hard and blows up spectacularly...

People that are large, tend to need more leg strength just to support their weight and move around, and when they lose the fat seem to have a disproportionately high short-term power/weight because they kept some residual leg strength, but don't necessarily have the endurance to sustain it.


I WISH!

I agree wit you, but unfortunately, that didn't happen for me. I ended up losing weight, having low short term power AND I couldn't sustain it :D

The good news is that as I lost weight and my W/KG is slowly going up along with my raw power.

I wish I had a real power meter on my bike. My trainer gives me power, but I suspect it underreports it a little. Especially on jumps. But that's OK. It's the long term trend that's important and it keeps going up. Slowly...

It depends what you mean by respectable.

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/power-to-weight-ratio.html

On the track or during a road TT factoring weight is much less meaningful than when talking about an average road race. But weight definitely should considered no matter (big guy with a lot of frontal surface area = lots of fun drag).

And most people are good at one area, or one end of the spectrum.
I'm definitely one whose power reaches a peak in the middle.


I'm 68kg and bests are 1279 for 5s, 695 for 60s, 448 for 5mins, and around 340 for an hour :(

I have used a power meter for a couple of years and ridden with some others who do so here are some observations and my numbers.
I am mid 50s, started at 195 currently 175 - ride 3 - 5 times a week. to get my threshold number I do a 12.50 mile course with a few hills up to 6 % grade, but can get almost identical by following Chris Carmichaels method.

Lactate Threshold 168 BPM

Starting numbers 3 years ago - 189 watts Threshold - 1000 max - short duration sprint
Current numbers 235 Watts Threshold - 1200 max - short duration sprint

Watts per KG Start 2.14
Current 2.96

Peak watts during a ride - start ~ 450
Current ~ 600

If I push 250+ for longer then 20 minutes I will start to fatigue so I set a target of trying to stay under 200 for a long ride.

So when I ride with various groups it puts me in a B/C group. I do not have the strength to maintain with the A riders for a 2 - 3 hour ride but the C group is a little slow. I have managed to ride with the A group - Avg speed of 26 for an hour + but I was being pulled the whole time and it was tough - if they hadn't caught a light at a highway I would have been dropped.
On a flat purely on my own for two hours I can maintain a 20 mph avg - with my avg watts at around 160.

Surprisingly when I finished the death ride a couple of years ago 4,000 + calories, 6 hours my avg watts were only 150 - peak was in the 750 range - one spot is a 12% grade but with all the downhills the avg was not very high. But the long bouts of climbing killed my legs, I live in the flats, no hills to be seen.

Rick