Living Car Free - Liveable Streets?

I'll have to take a trip to NYC just to see whats been happening. I've been
reading things about increased biking, pedicabs, and now this street as livable public space idea.

http://local.theoildrum.com/node/4711

It would be interesting to see how this goal could be achieved. Usually the first thought that comes into a planner's mind would be to increase the number of bike lanes. This usually provides cars an excellent opportunity for parking or lets pedestrians wander out into the street.

The second thought would be to create some traffic calming opportunities. One idea would be to borrow from London and tax cars that come into the center of the city. This would allow every lane to become a bike lane, potentially.

Just wondering what these guys might come up with...

I'll have to take a trip to NYC just to see whats been happening. I've been
reading things about increased biking, pedicabs, and now this street as livable public space idea.

http://local.theoildrum.com/node/4711

Good one!

I've biked in all those areas and what is the biggest improvement is speed reduction. In many cases, you really can't bike fast in these redesigned streets so bring your hybrid or fat tire beach cruiser. I did bike up Grand Central Terminal and was shocked how beautiful that building is up close but the street is closed off to peds.
We need to see more of this for the traffic calming alone.

I'm currently visiting my mother in Canada and riding the city streets on a borrowed mountain bike. The terrain is hilly, the city is more densely populated than my home city, streets are narrower and often missing white lines to demarcate lanes. Traffic is forced to move a lot slower. This makes bike riding feel a lot safer. Since the traffic moves slower, it's easier to share the road.

Curious... I've read how some Dutch traffic calming experts have plugged the idea of streets that aren't heavily laden with signs and lane markings as a method of slowing cars down and reducing accidents. While it seems odd, my trip here seems to prove this.

I'm currently visiting my mother in Canada and riding the city streets on a borrowed mountain bike. The terrain is hilly, the city is more densely populated than my home city, streets are narrower and often missing white lines to demarcate lanes. Traffic is forced to move a lot slower. This makes bike riding feel a lot safer. Since the traffic moves slower, it's easier to share the road.

Curious... I've read how some Dutch traffic calming experts have plugged the idea of streets that aren't heavily laden with signs and lane markings as a method of slowing cars down and reducing accidents. While it seems odd, my trip here seems to prove this.

Agreed 100%

When my city repaved the street, they eliminated the lane markings and traffic slowed down considerably! I loved it. As the motorist drives down the street, the lane markings give the illusion he is traveling slowly. This is why so many of them try to reach 40 mph because at 25 mph, the lane markings give the impression you are getting no where.

I find that I have more trouble with drivers on Mills St than on just about any other street in the city. Mills is a narrow, minimally signed street with no lane markings on the problematic section. It also has on street parking, on the southbound side. I rarely have trouble with drivers when I head north. But going south... I probably average one run in per daylight trip. The trick is, Mills has about 2 and a half lanes of space, and it gets broken up with northbound getting 1.5 lanes, and southbound getting about a 9 foot wide lane. So if I follow the law and leave 3 feet between me and the parked cars, a driver will see me as hogging the road. Since it is a busy street, it is rarely safe to pass, and they get pretty cranky.

On days where it isn't legal to park on Mills... all of a sudden, the drivers turn into perfect angels. The road split gets a lot more even, and I don't see as much dangerous behavior. I find most residential streets have a similar pattern. When on street parking isn't allowed, drivers behave with a lot more caution.

I find that I have more trouble with drivers on Mills St than on just about any other street in the city. Mills is a narrow, minimally signed street with no lane markings on the problematic section. It also has on street parking, on the southbound side. I rarely have trouble with drivers when I head north. But going south... I probably average one run in per daylight trip. The trick is, Mills has about 2 and a half lanes of space, and it gets broken up with northbound getting 1.5 lanes, and southbound getting about a 9 foot wide lane. So if I follow the law and leave 3 feet between me and the parked cars, a driver will see me as hogging the road. Since it is a busy street, it is rarely safe to pass, and they get pretty cranky.

On days where it isn't legal to park on Mills... all of a sudden, the drivers turn into perfect angels. The road split gets a lot more even, and I don't see as much dangerous behavior. I find most residential streets have a similar pattern. When on street parking isn't allowed, drivers behave with a lot more caution.

When I said earlier that unmarked roads seems to slow traffic down, I maybe missed a thing or two. It probably doesn't help when you are talking about a straightaway where traffic can pick up speed. But generally if there are no markings at all... not even a center line... cars are unsure about where they need to be and usually that slows them down.

When it doesn't, there are others tricks that could help. Even just one obstacle, like a center island with some flowers in it, will cause the driver to see the obstacle and react accordingly. I have noticed some residental streets using roundabout with flowers in the middle... this really slows traffic down.

Agreed 100%

When my city repaved the street, they eliminated the lane markings and traffic slowed down considerably! I loved it. As the motorist drives down the street, the lane markings give the illusion he is traveling slowly. This is why so many of them try to reach 40 mph because at 25 mph, the lane markings give the impression you are getting no where.

I never thought of that, but I guess the markings (unless they are solid..) could give a motorist the wrong clues about speed.

When I said earlier that unmarked roads seems to slow traffic down, I maybe missed a thing or two. It probably doesn't help when you are talking about a straightaway where traffic can pick up speed. But generally if there are no markings at all... not even a center line... cars are unsure about where they need to be and usually that slows them down.

There is a section of about a block where you can see lane markings, right before the street opens up into a not quite 4 lane road with median at the hospital. The remainder of the "bad" stretch doesn't have lane markings. There's just a strong convention that the northbound side gets 1.5 lanes worth of space, and southbound gets one. Not sure why :) since the road's width varies a good bit.

The thing I find really interesting is that the 2 block segment in front of the hospital is quite safe, and the 3 block segment near campus is quite safe... and both have lane markings and minimal on street parking. The worst segments (and again, it's only in one direction) are the least marked.

You're right that a straight road with no obvious hazards encourages drivers to go fast. But it does seem like some "hazards" work better than others at keeping speed under control. Parked cars are a hazard, but around here they seem to encourage speeding. Blind turns are a hazard, but they encourage slower speeds. The micro roundabout planters don't seem to encourage slowing down, unless the street is already a fairly slow one. There's one on a lakefront street that works very well. The ones scattered in the grid portions of the city tend to be pretty beat up. We don't have any, but I'm told that a tree planted in the middle of a road works *very* well.