Training & Nutrition - Power and cadence.

When riding with friends, we have tried racing one another. The question, I tend to stay in my highest chainring on flats. I have been told from the start- spin in a lower gear. Most are in the middle chain ring.
While sprinting with a co-rider, he was in the middle chain ring. I was considerably faster than Alex even though I am heavier and in the big chain ring.
Is it that I am strong enough, I can pound in the higher gear ratios. I am told I have a slow cadence. When sprinting or racing in middle chain ring and attempting at higer cadence, I am not as fast. I notice when doing this with my Heart rate monitor on, there is little difference. We are supposed to work harder at higher gear ratios.
Guess this is a technique question. Most of the time I ride in my biggest chain ring. Do not feel tired particularily. Where do most of you do your speed work.? Spinning fast or pounding the pedals.

Given that you produce a certain amount of power, you can transfer it to the wheels by turning a low gear fast, or a high gear slowly. In simple terms, its the same amount of power.

People differ in their muscles, so some people produce peak power output while moving faster, others, with slower muscle action.
You can change your muscles by training, to deliver more power at higher revs. The advantage is that you lower the force transmitted through your joints. Spinning at higher revs with less force shifts the strain from your leg muscles to your heart, which may or may not suit you.

work = force x distance
(where distance is the circumference given by your crank length )

power is work/time
power = force x distance /time
(ie releted to the cadence)

A top athlete produces 300watts of power.
Note that crank size controls the pedalling circumference, so, at constant force, turing big cranks is more work than turning small cranks.

The first thing that needs to be highlighted here is that every rider is different. In my view, you're better off finding your own level rather than trying to replicate what someone else does. It's probably best to stick with what is apparently working for you.

Must say, I feel slightly annoyed, riders telling me I must spin. But then I sort of do spin, just in another ratio. I keep up reasonably well with the hammerheads, I ocassionally ride with.
But one point Michael makes, less work at middle chainrings.
One advantage, less pounding might be better on knees, joints, cartlidge and all that, over the ten of thousands of miles.

Originally posted by cyclezealot

One advantage, less pounding might be better on knees, joints, cartlidge and all that, over the ten of thousands of miles.

The best way to protect your joints is to warm up properly before going flat out. I think this is a bigger factor than the gear you choose to ride in when you are fully warmed up here.

Often when Im out on my own I do a minute or 2 of ultra-spinning.
I gear down, and start spinning my legs faster and faster until Im at a stupid cadence.
You dont need to ride fast when you do this, or apply much power. The aim is to accustom my muscles to moving fast, and to improve my pedalling action, to become more fluid and apply force through more of the circle.
One pont that people noticed about Lance in last years TdF was how fluid he was on his pedals.

I also start rides in a low gear, and spin a little faster to warm up.
Mashing big gears from a cold start is bad for you. I used to live on a steep hill, and the way to work was UP. Lacking a granny gear, I used to run up 3 flights of starirs to get my legs warmed up.

If you don't learn to spin you WILL have more injuries and will NEVER attain your maximum and potential speeds.
Anyone who is the same or slightly lesser strength who who can spin will kick your a$$ EVERY TIME you race them, PERIOD.


Ride to Spin Spin to Ride
Pat

Now people vary on their optimum cadence. Greg Lemond had a low cadence (about 80 rpm) and pushed big gears. Eddie Meryx (sp?) averaged something like 115 rpm when he broke the 30 mile barrier in the hour time trial.

It is my experience that most new cyclists tend to run very low cadences. They often benefit from learning how to spin. What you do is go out on your own and concentrate on spinning in lower gears than you normally ride in. You should feel a burn in your quads from all this. It takes awhile to elevate your rpm. So you could go out and give it a try and see if it works for you. If it doesn't you really haven't lost anything and you will have a response to your critiques "tried it, didn't work for me".

I agree with the spinning camp.
I'm a natural spinner, so it's one of the few things in life that came easy to me.

It seems that I once read in a physics book, that the most efficent engine is one that turns a high RPM/light load, which would support the spinning theory.

It is important to keep the upper body from thrashing around, wasting energy when cycling. This is easier to do if you spin.

Louis

Mashing a bigger gear at a lower cadence will render more power, and you will go faster. The short term advantage of spinning is that you won't tire your muscles and burn up glycogen as quickly. When you go hard in a big gear, it's kind of like lifting heavy weights. You repeat some limited number of times, and the muscles need a day or two to recover. Focus on the spin, and at the end of the day you'll still have power to push the big meat for the finish sprint, where the win counts! ;)
A year or so ago I read a comment by Chris Carmichael, L. Armstrong's coach, on the subject. His advice (granted, it's for racers, not recreational cyclists) was that on your workouts, it's more important to keep your rpms up and develop that capability, even though you will probably give up 1 mph average speed.

My reaction to spinning. I turn the biggest of gear arrangements on flats, just does not seem like that much work anymore.? Spinning on the flats in lower gears seems to tire me more? And I go slower. Don't the pros not have granny gears and their high rpm's are in higher gears. Is it possible you have strong enough muscle tone higher gears seem easier. I guess earlier argument from the physics books about lower gear ratio and less work makes a lot of sense.

Big gears or small gears or big/small cranks dont generate power . 100watts through a 53/14 will give the same speed as 100 watts through a 39/21 gear. There is only one source of power on a bike, you the rider.
The question is, how much force is safe for your particular set of joints, and at what is the optimal cadence for your particular muscles.

Once you know YOUR preferred cadence and YOUR power output, you can chose a set of gear ratios that permit you to maintain those parameters over the terrain you ride.

Professionals vary in their techniques, some spin fast, others mash hard, but they are all exceptional, not average athletes. I wouldnt want the same set of gear ratios as a guy who can output over twice my power.

Originally posted by cyclezealot
Don't the pros...
In my opinion, you can only go just so far using pro cyclists as a model, unless you are gaunt, ride 2 - 6 hours a day, eat sleep and breath cycling, etc. etc.

As you've discovered, you can tire yourself out by spinning too fast. Like anything, max cadence responds to training. From what you've said, I doubt that you are necessarily "mashing." Your legs would tire, and you'd fade. And odds are good that you'd start experiencing knee-joint discomfort, etc. You haven't given us any specifics. A cadence range of 90-110 rpm is perfectly adequate for a reasonably conditioned recreational cyclist under normal riding circumstances. I would say your friend is unique if he can sprint competitively in his middle ring. Maybe he's just trying to call your attention to what a great spinner he is?

I come up against this argument all the time as I spin (90 rpm usually) whereas one of my friend doesn't. he pushes high gears, i spin lower ones.

I've always spun as when I started cycling as a youngster I wasn't that fit and spinning low gears was easier. I've always understood that spinning helps increase cv fitness, and pushing increases strength.

Is that right.

As it is, my calves are finely toned but don't fill out the kilt socks as well as my "pushing" friend's. :)

My two cents:

Be scientific. (The pros are, but they get V02 testing and cyclotrainers to play on).

Ride like a spinner for a few weeks until it becomes comfortable. Before that it doesn't count, you may not like it simply because your muscles aren't used to it.


Then go on a few rides with a speedometer, cadence meter and a HRM. Warm up for at least 10 minutes.

Keeping your speed constant at your crusing level for that terrain, ride 4 minutes each in 3 or 4 different gears, which will force you to use 4 different cadences. Whichever one gives the lowest HR is your ideal cadence. Try it at several speeds as well.

It was only last year Lance and his coach discovered he climbs better at 90-100 rpm, which is his usual crusing cadence, instead of at 50 - 60 like most riders! (Ullrich, for example).