Southern California - Double right turn lane in Costa Mesa, CA

Hi All,
I've posted this to the commuting forum, but I'm double posting it here in case anyone is familiar with the area I'm talking about:

On my commute there is a very large intersection I must contend with ( Costa Mesa, CA - corner of Sunflower and Bristol). I am traveling eastbound on Sunflower crossing Bristol.

There are two left turn lanes, two lanes going straight through, and two right turn lanes. The leftmost right-turn lane is a combo lane allowing drivers to go straight or turn right. So there are actually three lanes going through the intersection. Drivers are allowed to right on the red.

On the opposite end of the intersection, the road narrows to 3 lanes. The "bike lane" disappears. So no matter what, I'm taking the rightmost lane as I cross the intersection.

If I am going through this intersection (ie, neither turning right or left):

1) What is my safest position to be in if the light is green as I approach the intersection?
2) What is my safest position to be in if the light is red and I have to wait for it to turn green?

Thanks,
Darren

I know that intersection as I work by Sunflower and Harbor. While I don't know the definitive answer, if the light is green I would try to "take" the straight/right turn combo lane; if the light is red, I'd be inclined to get over to the curb/crosswalk.

Take the right lane after you cross the intersection.

When waiting at the red light take the RIGHT TURN OK lane but give some space on your right for those behind you who wish to turn right from that lane.

Hi Roadfix,
Can you clarify which lane you are referring to? The leftmost right turn lane or the rightmost right turn lane?

As it stands, at red lights, I have been splitting these two lanes; even slightly taking the rightmost right-turn lane so that the first car in that lane can see me. And I make sure to make eye contact with the driver. So that when the light turns green, I pull out in front of that driver. The driver can then overtake me when we've both cleared the intersection.

In cases when I'm approaching the intersection when the light is green, I usually slow down enough to let most of the traffic go through ahead of me. I don't want some car in the rightmost right-turn lane to cross in front of me as I pass through the intersection (does that make sense)?

In most cases, I'd rather the light turn red before I get to the intersection. It just seems safer to proceed through it after everyone's had a chance to slow down and stop and I know that other drivers can see me.

If anyone has comments on this, please continue the discussion.

Thanks,
Darren

Hi All,
I've posted this to the commuting forum, but I'm double posting it here in case anyone is familiar with the area I'm talking about:

On my commute there is a very large intersection I must contend with ( Costa Mesa, CA - corner of Sunflower and Bristol). I am traveling eastbound on Sunflower crossing Bristol.

There are two left turn lanes, two lanes going straight through, and two right turn lanes. The leftmost right-turn lane is a combo lane allowing drivers to go straight or turn right. So there are actually three lanes going through the intersection. Drivers are allowed to right on the red.

On the opposite end of the intersection, the road narrows to 3 lanes. The "bike lane" disappears. So no matter what, I'm taking the rightmost lane as I cross the intersection.

If I am going through this intersection (ie, neither turning right or left):

1) What is my safest position to be in if the light is green as I approach the intersection?
2) What is my safest position to be in if the light is red and I have to wait for it to turn green?

Thanks,
Darren
That's a tough one...I lived near the corner of Sunflower and Greenville, and headed down Sunflower to made a right turn on Bristol almost every morning for 5 years to get on the 405 heading to work in the mornings. When driving, I would lean towards making the right turn from the right lane, but if that lane was taken and the next lane over was open I would take that one also to turn right. I think that if I was doing what you do, I would take a very cautious approach at that intersection. Stay in between the right turn only lane and the next lane over, that way you only have the one lane to watch out for someone turning into you. If you're waiting to go straight, and sitting next to the curb, the person in the dual purpose lane most likely will NOT see you until it's too late.

Wait in between the two lanes and you can get good eye contact with the only driver with a good chance of taking you out. Also, from my experience, most of the time the first person waiting in that lane would go straight, making you that much safer.

Good luck.

1) I would find it necessary to "take" the right/straight combo lane for a green light, meaning you ride the center. There's too much traffic to share the lane, and you don't want someone right hooking you from that lane.

2) I would personally be on the left side of the combo lane at a red. This allows people to make a right turn from that lane. Legally, you are entitled to that lane and anyone behind you either needs to wait or use the other turn lane, but it's polite to make room for them if it doesn't create a danger.

Yup, you hit the nail on the head. BTW, what you suggested is what I already do.:thumb:

Just to clarify the situation (I don't specifically know the intersection) there are a total of 6 lanes. Lane numbers are always calculated from the center of the road...
Lane 1 - Left Turn Only
Lane 2 - Left Turn Only
Lane 3 - Straight (fast lane)
Lane 4 - Straight
Lane 5 - Straight (slow lane) or Right Turn
Lane 6 - Right Turn Only

The best positioning according to the laws of the state of California is to be in the middle of Lane 5 when entering the intersection. The light does not matter because green or red, there could be a car using lane 5 to turn right and you do not want to be 'hooked'.

If you are too far to the right side of lane 5 some drivers may think they can get ahead of you before turning, and drivers going straight might not know the bike lane disappears on the other side of the intersection. If the light is red, you can easily move to the left to allow enough space for a car behind you to turn right without interfering with your travel.

Once past the intersection, move as far right as practicable to allow drivers to pass on your left.

I hope this helps, and thank you for the clear and concise description of the situation!

extort's post = /thread.

1) i would find it necessary to "take" the right/straight combo lane for a green light, meaning you ride the center. There's too much traffic to share the lane, and you don't want someone right hooking you from that lane.

2) i would personally be on the left side of the combo lane at a red. This allows people to make a right turn from that lane. Legally, you are entitled to that lane and anyone behind you either needs to wait or use the other turn lane, but it's polite to make room for them if it doesn't create a danger.

+1

Since a picture is worth a thousand words...

That's a pretty hairy intersection...I might try to avoid it if practical.

What extort said is what I'd do, with a minor adjustment depending on traffic speed and volume. If most cars in the through/right lane are going to the right and traffic was moving at a speed that I could maintain (not unusual), I would be more to the lefthand side of the lane. I'd probably advance to the left of the right turning cars (if there were a lot of them) and then move back to the middle of the lane just before entering the intersection, and then to the right after getting through the intersection. It takes some practice at negotiating a space, but if you're polite about it it works fine.

Hi Extort and all, Yup. I'll start taking lane 5 closer to the center of the lane while waiting at the red to keep from getting buzzed as I ride through it.

Cjbruin, thanks for the pic, it clearly illustrates how hairy the situation gets. Zoom out a bit and you'll see its hair for 100 meters before AND 100 meters after this intersection. Zoom out even further and you'll see that South Coast Plaza and the surrounding areas don't provide many opportunities to avoid this intersection.

I've ridden this intersection since August '08 and haven't had any encounters with cars attempting to hook me with a right turn from lane 5 yet. But just to be safe, I get super alert as I come to this area, with blazing-orange vest, all my light blinking, etc.

Last question I have: If I'm approaching this intersection and the light is red, if there are cars already lined up in lane 5, would you get in line after the last car, or would you split lanes 5 and 6 and move to the front of the 1st car in lane 5? Seems the safest thing to do is get in line following the last car (so as not to piss off the 1st car in the line).

Best Wishes and safe riding,
Darren

If the light is red, I'd act as if the #5 lane is the last lane and wait to the right like it's a curb. I'd rather be able to look at, and make eye contact, with the person sitting next to me as the light turns green and know whether they're going straight or not. That's what I would do. Follow your instincts.

Last question I have: If I'm approaching this intersection and the light is red, if there are cars already lined up in lane 5, would you get in line after the last car, or would you split lanes 5 and 6 and move to the front of the 1st car in lane 5? Seems the safest thing to do is get in line following the last car (so as not to piss off the 1st car in the line).

I would pull up behind the last car in line and be in the middle of lane 5. Since there is not a bike lane on the other side of the road, cruising up to the front of the line forces the cars to pass you (again) and now there is less margin for error.