Road Cycling - High-end bikes--where's the line between really good and "outstanding"?

Ok, here's a good one to get everyone lathered up.

Why do we all obsess over the bike--isn't it really the engine? Legs and lungs, as my 10k mile a year brother-in-law says.

That said, we all want to have a bike we are proud of, that fits well, that rides to our tastes (could be steel, Ti or bamboo, who knows?). So, my totally open-ended question is: where's the line? And what happens when you cross it?

I ride a 2003 Giant TCR1 with full Ultegra, carbon fork, seatpost and stem. I put on some aero Alex rims that added alot in terms of burst and accel but may be more flexy than the Mavic Cosmos the bike came with.

I recently rode a Trek 5000--frame was very sweet to me--but component set was mixed 105 and wheels were base Bontragers Race. But it made me realize that at least vs. my AluXX frame, I like CF. Haven't ridden Ti but now having ridden steel, AluXX, Alum/CF rears, and full CF, I am liking CF the most. That said, having already spent $1500 on my TCR1, I question the benefit of losing my shirt on it to "upgrade" to CF.

I am not a racer or team rider but like to ride clubs thus far and can hold my own. What will I notice if I say:

1. Put Ksyriums on my current bike? Or FSA RD400s? Or Velomax Ascents?
2. Go to a lighter CF frame but stay with Ultegra (Trek 5200 or the Scattante CFR)
3. Go to lighter still CF frame and go 9spd or 10spd DA (Trek 5500 or Scattante CFR LE)
4. Go all out and get a Trek 5900 or 5.9 Madone?

Do you get any real performance improvement from this stuff--or is it all in your head? Could Lance win the TdF on my TCR1? Is this all about legs and lungs?

What say you?

IMHO, it just depends on what you "want" vs. "need". You probably have all the bike you "need". Since we're all probably more constrained by our engine than our bikes (after a point) it comes down to what you desire. I'd like to buy a Ti bike for no good reason other than I want one!

Ok, here's a good one to get everyone lathered up.

Why do we all obsess over the bike--isn't it really the engine? Legs and lungs, as my 10k mile a year brother-in-law says.

That said, we all want to have a bike we are proud of, that fits well, that rides to our tastes (could be steel, Ti or bamboo, who knows?). So, my totally open-ended question is: where's the line? And what happens when you cross it?

I ride a 2003 Giant TCR1 with full Ultegra, carbon fork, seatpost and stem. I put on some aero Alex rims that added alot in terms of burst and accel but may be more flexy than the Mavic Cosmos the bike came with.

I recently rode a Trek 5000--frame was very sweet to me--but component set was mixed 105 and wheels were base Bontragers Race. But it made me realize that at least vs. my AluXX frame, I like CF. Haven't ridden Ti but now having ridden steel, AluXX, Alum/CF rears, and full CF, I am liking CF the most. That said, having already spent $1500 on my TCR1, I question the benefit of losing my shirt on it to "upgrade" to CF.

I am not a racer or team rider but like to ride clubs thus far and can hold my own. What will I notice if I say:

1. Put Ksyriums on my current bike? Or FSA RD400s? Or Velomax Ascents?
2. Go to a lighter CF frame but stay with Ultegra (Trek 5200 or the Scattante CFR)
3. Go to lighter still CF frame and go 9spd or 10spd DA (Trek 5500 or Scattante CFR LE)
4. Go all out and get a Trek 5900 or 5.9 Madone?

Do you get any real performance improvement from this stuff--or is it all in your head? Could Lance win the TdF on my TCR1? Is this all about legs and lungs?

What say you?

It isn't worth your money to go out and buy a new Trek. If you really want to get a CF bike at a cheaper price - since you already ride a Giant and presuming it fits ya, why not invest in a Giant TCR Composite 2?

The price tag is around 2000 - better components than the Trek 5000, better frame, better fork.

As for Lance winning the TdF on your TDR - yah probably, he might need new wheels but the frame isn't so bad that he can't win on it. The TCR1 alloy isn't a heavy frame - maybe even lighter than some of the CF frames that come out of Europe..

The more critical your application, the more critical these infinitely more expensive yet miniscule improvements are.
Saving .1 watt per mile might not mean much but when you're going 3000 miles, it adds up, especially if you're in the final climb and someone's leading you by 10 ft.
If I'm doing a century though, I probably wouldn't even notice.

you don't need a new bike, but yes you want a new bike. and yes lance can win a tdf on your giant. for the most part, bikes are cheap. cycling is a hobby for most of us. other people have boats, ski, collect star wars figures, salt water fish, motorcycles, etc. we have bicycles. I say ride what you what to ride. if you don't have the cash, save your pennies, skip coffee at starbucks, eat at cheap resturants, get the 2nd mortgage, but get the cash. in the mean time, ride what you have. when you have the cash, get what you want! ti, cf, whatever! Dura Ace or Campy, it really doesn't matter as long as you have what you want! You will ride faster! you may not be able to beat lance but so what? Jan's been trying for 5 years. :D

I like the Trek 52/5500 better than the composite Giant but, this is a subjective matter. The Trek fits me much better and feels more stable (especially downhill) and balanced. Not only can you sit up, take your hands off the bars and eat lunch on the Trek but, you can probably cook lunch too. It's that stable.

I just could not get comfortable on the TCR. That ultra short wheelbase, egg shell lightness and compact geometry just prevented me from feeling totally relaxed and confident. Again, this is subjective, your mileage may vary. One positive thing about the Ultegra equipped TCR composite is that it is usually offered at a very competitive price.

My advice would be to test ride the 5200, and the 5900 if possible, and if you like it then get it. You only live once. I have less experience with the 5900 but assume that it is a bit stiffer and more focused on racing. You can always sell the one you decide not to keep. Both Trek and Giant are very good bikes.

I am not a racer or team rider but like to ride clubs thus far and can hold my own. What will I notice if I say:

1. Put Ksyriums on my current bike? Or FSA RD400s? Or Velomax Ascents?
2. Go to a lighter CF frame but stay with Ultegra (Trek 5200 or the Scattante CFR)
3. Go to lighter still CF frame and go 9spd or 10spd DA (Trek 5500 or Scattante CFR LE)
4. Go all out and get a Trek 5900 or 5.9 Madone?

Let's see, #1 You may see a little quicker acceleration.
#2 You will see a smoother ride.
#3 You will see an smoother ride, smooth shifting, better climbing.
#4 You will see divorce papers.

Avalanche325--you have NO idea how on target #4 is! Nice to see we are all in the same boat out here! BTW, I also appreciate your straightforward reply.

Avalanche325--you have NO idea how on target #4 is! Nice to see we are all in the same boat out here!

Ditto. I hide my surfing of bike and component websites from my wife like most husbands hide their surfing of porn websites.

I got a headache reading this thread... That's why I ride fixed. ... ;)

George

Ditto. I hide my surfing of bike and component websites from my wife like most husbands hide their surfing of porn websites.

I hide my purchase of components and accessories from my wife like she hides her shoes....

Amen brother.

55/Rad

I hide my purchase of components and accessories from my wife like she hides her shoes....

Heh... same here. But then irony struck one day when I came back from a business trip to Italy carrying two pairs of Sidis. :)

It may come down to legs and lungs, but a dialed-in ride is about more than just speed. Cars are the easy analogy. Go out on a narrow, winding mountain road, and all of a sudden handling makes all the difference in the world as to whether the drive is fun or work. Likewise with bikes. It's a fact, whether you're fast, or even care about being fast.

Sounds like what you liked about the CF was the road feel. So, wheels aren't the issue, they're all about acceleration. Ksyriums are light and fast, but kind of a battle in cross-winds. If you can get a CF frame and switch your components over, that may be the least expensive solution. Then again, sometimes you can score a whole bike with a bunch of equipment upgrades for a lot less than piece-meal upgrades to an existing bike. Maybe 10-speed DA is all that, but it costs fricken' 30% more than 9 speed. And when wifey sees the $1500 charge, it will at least get her thinking about divorce court... you won't even be able to show her a new bike! ;) If you want to upgrade your shifting performance, replace your Ultegra with 9-spd DA levers.

Sounds like what you liked about the CF was the road feel. So, wheels aren't the issue, they're all about acceleration. Ksyriums are light and fast, but kind of a battle in cross-winds.

Well, you can't discount the wheels as a factour when it comes to road feel. They do make a substantial difference. Ksyriums do react to crosswinds due to the bladed spokes. Also keep in mind that they are stiffer wheels too. However, combining Ksyriums with a frame that can absorb some of the vibrations and shocks really does work well as a combination.

I hide my purchase of components and accessories from my wife like she hides her shoes....

Amen brother.

55/Rad
My wife and I used to do exactly that! But now, we don't hide our purchases from one another any longer. I just saw another half a dozen or so new shoe boxes neatly stacked on our dining room table. I'm sure she must have noticed several new Brooks saddles, track cranksets, forks, etc....stacked neatly on my workbench as well.

George

I had the same dilemma last year. Minus the TREK part of the equation, I think they feel wooden.

I also had the 2003 TCR alloy. I got rid of the frame and transfered everything onto a TCR composite frameset (full carbon frame and fork with the headset). When I crunched the numbers it made more sense. There was nothing wrong with the components or the Cosmos, it was just the carbon frame that I really wanted. I didn't need it, i just wanted it.

It was worth it. And on those days that I am not totally psyched to ride it gives me that additional incentive to get out there. BTW the improvement is quantifiable. Just compromise and get a frame.

Yes, we all know the engine is the most important part. We only buy new stuff cos we're good little consumers who lead dreary, unfulfilling lives and feel the need to compensate by buying stuff and making fake emotional connections to it. :D

Ahem, sorry, wrong forum. :)

I find it mildly ironic everyone thinks spending more money will help, yet nobody has mentioned fit.

And urrrr....remind me never to get married ;)

Well, you can't discount the wheels as a factour when it comes to road feel. They do make a substantial difference. Ksyriums do react to crosswinds due to the bladed spokes. Also keep in mind that they are stiffer wheels too. However, combining Ksyriums with a frame that can absorb some of the vibrations and shocks really does work well as a combination.
Crosswinds might be a small factor if your a lighter rider but unless your talking about 30 mph winds all the time,i would'nt be concerned with them as they are bulletproff,not the lightest but not bad weight wise,maybe 100g lighter ones around but then you might be truing them to.

A few years ago I rode a stock aluminum Trek with 105- my first modern road bike- and I suffered severe bike lust. I ended up purchasing a Look KG 281 and decked it out with full carbon, stuck some Ksyriums on it, and to this day, I've been free of bike lust. I wouldn't mind having a fixie and a TT bike, but I don't drool over new frames, and the Dura Ace 9 will not be replaced by DA 10 anytime soon (if ever).

My point is, regardless of "want" vs. "need"- life is too short to go around "wanting."

Yes, we all know the engine is the most important part. We only buy new stuff cos we're good little consumers who lead dreary, unfulfilling lives and feel the need to compensate by buying stuff and making fake emotional connections to it.

I'd say you nailed it, Thylacine. The "latest and greatest" really isn't that big an improvement over last year's technology. Or the year's before that, for that matter. We're drawn to the next shiny object the bicycling marketing flacks swing before our eyes, and all of a sudden, our current gear isn't so great anymore.

For me, I'll ride lugged steel bikes until the day I die. I've tried all the other frame materials and they just don't stack up to a great steel frame. I've got Record 10 on my Merckx, and Super Record 7 with dt shifters on my rain bike. They both work fine. If I want to do some "gram shaving", I'll skip that extra beer and work on losing 5 lbs. from my gut!

for me personally, its hard to find a connection with most production bikes. i think that's why people upgrade and sidegrade ---> to make it their own. i like buying frames and building them instead of buying the parts the manufacturer can mix to make the most money on.

but as far as buying the most expensive stuff out there, the analogy i'll use is with stereo equipment. when people hear my stereo and love the sound, i don't brag 'yeah, and it cost me a mint too' --> i want the best sound for the least amount of money. no one ever said 'yeah...and i paid top dollar too!!'

so i consider it soulful and cool to kick on a bike that doesn't look like the rider kicks @$$.

that said, i love seeing people buy expensive bikes. it helps the technology trickle down to us regular folks.

I got a headache reading this thread... That's why I ride fixed. ... ;)

George

Thank god Mme, has no clue what a fixie is!!

:D

But I have to agree about the legs & lungs vs equipment, I recently test rode some new skis. For fun they had a speed trap with a radar gun, I tried 3 pair of skis, all three same top speed, 79.8km/h
Funny thing was, my 5 year old skis hit the same speed...

Boy did I save a lot of money there, (to spend on my bike...)

Scoob

I recently (two weeks ago) got myself a new road bike after wanting one for 3 years.
Have been in the bike shops on and off looking, always wondered why manufacturers PAINT CF bikes.
Shopping this time saw the Naked Giant CF. Didn't even ride it. Cause I know me, I love tech. Bought my Super V because it had a CF swingarm (and it is beefy enough for my LARGE body)..

But bike are like any hobby, if you like what you have, stick with it AND STAY OUT OF THE SHOPS. You will always find something you like better. Of course that will cost you money.


I agree with what was said earlier, buy what you want that is in your price range. I ended up spending about $200.00 more than I really wanted to, but I like the new ride.