Electric Bikes - Electric Hub Motors ... ???

I'm really a dummy when it comes to anything mechanical or electrical! If I understand correctly, if I buy the electric hub motor for my Electra Townie, I will no longer have the gears that came with my bicycle available for pedaling?

I need to keep the gears that came with my bicycle, so I can still ride my bicycle with no motor as often as possible. I need the exercise and enjoy riding, but also need to commute to various job assignments where there is no bus service, and too far for me to pedal (10-15 miles each way).

I want to get something that will last many years, and allow me to attain speeds of at least a good solid 35mph (45mph would be better, so I could ride on the country roads where the speed limit is between 45-55mph), with my weight, plus groceries (will not be riding fast with groceries!!!, only around 10mph then!).

When I go to work, my weight is around 210, plus my large backpack, which normally weighs around 15 pounds. Groceries will add another 15 pounds, sometimes more ....

So, I need a good quality motor that will easily carry over 250 pounds, reliable, effecient, long lasting ..... I've been checking around on different websites, but am still a bit overwhelmed ... !!! Help please ... !!!! Thanks!
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OK, I'll bite.
What you describe doesn't exist. You're looking for a motor scooter, either gas powered or they make electric ones.
A hub motor on your bicycle, won't give the capabilities you've listed in either speed or range, unless you, yourself are a very strong rider.

if I buy the electric hub motor for my Electra Townie, I will no longer have the gears that came with my bicycle available for pedaling? If you get a front hub motor, you will still have all the gears your bike currently has.


need to commute to various job assignments where there is no bus service, and too far for me to pedal (10-15 miles each way). Two issues here: the size of the battery and the terrain you will be riding--flat or hilly? If you carry your recharger with you and recharge when you can, you should be able to make a *few* of these trips. Problems come up if you have many hills--the battery will be warm/hot after these trips and will not recharge as well.


I want to get something that will last many years, and allow me to attain speeds of at least a good solid 35mph (45mph would be better, so I could ride on the country roads where the speed limit is between 45-55mph), with my weight, plus groceries (will not be riding fast with groceries!!!, only around 10mph then!). If you want a motor-assisted bicycle, you need to re-think those speeds; you will not get those speeds and distances. And have you traveled any distance on a bicycle going 35 mph? Think more along the lines of 15 to 25 mph.


When I go to work, my weight is around 210, plus my large backpack, which normally weighs around 15 pounds. Groceries will add another 15 pounds, sometimes more .... With the right motor and battery, your weight should not be a problem.


So, I need a good quality motor that will easily carry over 250 pounds, reliable, effecient, long lasting

Disclaimer: I have no business connection to Ebikes.ca

I recently bought a Ezee kit from ebikes.ca (http://ebikes.ca) for my wifes bike. I bought an upgraded battery (upgrade from stock 36v to 48v). The kit is well made and has enough power to carry me (260 lbs--and losing:thumb:--plus the battery and bike) up the many hills we have here in Atlanta. I have done one test ride to my work (11 miles) and believe I could easily do the roundtrip (22 miles) with some power to share. I would suggest you contact ebikes.ca and discuss your needs and see what they recommend.

At those speeds you are not looking at a legal bicycle. You are looking at a motorcycle. 20mph is the federal limit. The rear cluster on a hub motor seems to be limited to a 7 cog freewheel. Other than that, your bike will use the gears just like any other bike. My new batteries (17 lbs) will take me about 40 miles at 15 to 20 mph assuming I am pedaling which I always do, it is a bicycle after all.

If you have a Townie 21, the freewheel included on your current rear wheel is all you need. Transfer it over to the electric hub motor, and you'll still have all your gears with little work. Its a very easy bike to convert.

As mentioned, a front drive motor would also allow your gears to function. However, the Townies don't have good forks for electric hub motors, and on my own personal experience I would advise against it. Either go rear drive, or change your fork from the timid SR Suntour fork to a Cromoly steel one.

OK, I'll bite.
What you describe doesn't exist. You're looking for a motor scooter, either gas powered or they make electric ones.
A hub motor on your bicycle, won't give the capabilities you've listed in either speed or range, unless you, yourself are a very strong rider.

So, how do people get the high speeds from their bicycles? People have posted that they can get up to 50 mph on their bicycle ...

It is possible, but the power consumption for those speeds is quite immense. Crystalyte "5 series" motors for instance can nearly made to reach such speed, but they require extremely high capacity batteries which will be consumed quite quickly. The system weight, cost and complexity increases greatly as speed needs do. Legal issues also arise, and the ability of the bicycle to be enjoyed *as* a bicycle decrease.

Motors like the 5 series are massively heavy, and not enjoyable to pedal about.

Practically, it makes more sense to go 20-25mph as mentioned by some other users. The investment and hassle is much less severe, systems can be made to meet those standards fairly readily.

For instance, even my rather mundane setup of a Crystalyte 408, 36/20 controller, 48/10.5 li-polymer battery will meet your range needs at around 25mph. Thats not a heavy investment, and the bicycle remains light enough to be enjoyed. It will soon be either a BMC 400w or a BMC Thunderbolt 600w, which will make it even lighter and easier to enjoy as a bicycle.

What is the expected life of the Crystalyte 408? That looks like something that is more practical .... What about extra-long-life batteries? I think the batteries would be more of a practical concern for me ....

I think that a speed of 25 mph (maybe even 30 mph?) on my bicycle would be quite acceptable for the area that I travel the most. Even when I drive to work, I usually can only average 20 mph. Sometimes I might even average 25 mph ... !!! There are just too many stop signs, traffic signals, and so much traffic!


It is possible, but the power consumption for those speeds is quite immense. Crystalyte "5 series" motors for instance can nearly made to reach such speed, but they require extremely high capacity batteries which will be consumed quite quickly. The system weight, cost and complexity increases greatly as speed needs do. Legal issues also arise, and the ability of the bicycle to be enjoyed *as* a bicycle decrease.

Motors like the 5 series are massively heavy, and not enjoyable to pedal about.

Practically, it makes more sense to go 20-25mph as mentioned by some other users. The investment and hassle is much less severe, systems can be made to meet those standards fairly readily.

For instance, even my rather mundane setup of a Crystalyte 408, 36/20 controller, 48/10.5 li-polymer battery will meet your range needs at around 25mph. Thats not a heavy investment, and the bicycle remains light enough to be enjoyed. It will soon be either a BMC 400w or a BMC Thunderbolt 600w, which will make it even lighter and easier to enjoy as a bicycle.

I just watched a video of someone riding their bicycle with the 600W Thunderbolt electric motor!!! Man that was awesome! Has anyone used that motor on their bicycle? What other motors would be comparable to the 600W Thunderbolt?


It is possible, but the power consumption for those speeds is quite immense. Crystalyte "5 series" motors for instance can nearly made to reach such speed, but they require extremely high capacity batteries which will be consumed quite quickly. The system weight, cost and complexity increases greatly as speed needs do. Legal issues also arise, and the ability of the bicycle to be enjoyed *as* a bicycle decrease.

Motors like the 5 series are massively heavy, and not enjoyable to pedal about.

Practically, it makes more sense to go 20-25mph as mentioned by some other users. The investment and hassle is much less severe, systems can be made to meet those standards fairly readily.

For instance, even my rather mundane setup of a Crystalyte 408, 36/20 controller, 48/10.5 li-polymer battery will meet your range needs at around 25mph. Thats not a heavy investment, and the bicycle remains light enough to be enjoyed. It will soon be either a BMC 400w or a BMC Thunderbolt 600w, which will make it even lighter and easier to enjoy as a bicycle.

A Crystalyte 408 will last you forever if you take care of it and nothing abnormal happens. For the longest life in your batteries LiFePO4 is the current king, offering many years of use before needing replacement.

I'm going to be testing the Thunderbolt motor soon. Snowranger might have one, not sure which model of BMC he is using. From the information i've recieved, the Thunderbolt has comparable power to the Crystalyte 5304, but at 1/3rd the weight, with a lower power consumption, higher efficiency, and freewheeling ability.

That sounds pretty good to me. There are a few tradeoffs. The BMC would not excel at extreme modding like the Crystalyte is known for, it hasn't got the same robust wiring and is more subject to parts wear. But for users wanting good power from low weight, it will be tops.

There are a couple of motors like these. BMC, eZee and Heinzmann are the most commonly known geared hub motors. In the hub motor class for power to weight ratio and efficiency, no direct drive motor can touch geared motors like the BMC. They also freewheel, making them very easy to pedal without the motor's assistance.

Downsides are mostly small. Planetary gears may eventually require servicing after a few years use, regenerative braking is not possible, and a small amount of noise is generated while in use. The noise is what is the biggest downside to most people, and a benefit in the direct drive motor's favour.

A Crystalyte 408 will last you forever if you take care of it and nothing abnormal happens. For the longest life in your batteries LiFePO4 is the current king, offering many years of use before needing replacement.

I'm going to be testing the Thunderbolt motor soon. Snowranger might have one, not sure which model of BMC he is using. From the information i've recieved, the Thunderbolt has comparable power to the Crystalyte 5304, but at 1/3rd the weight, with a lower power consumption, higher efficiency, and freewheeling ability.

That sounds pretty good to me. There are a few tradeoffs. The BMC would not excel at extreme modding like the Crystalyte is known for, it hasn't got the same robust wiring and is more subject to parts wear. But for users wanting good power from low weight, it will be tops.

There are a couple of motors like these. BMC, eZee and Heinzmann are the most commonly known geared hub motors. In the hub motor class for power to weight ratio and efficiency, no direct drive motor can touch geared motors like the BMC. They also freewheel, making them very easy to pedal without the motor's assistance.

Downsides are mostly small. Planetary gears may eventually require servicing after a few years use, regenerative braking is not possible, and a small amount of noise is generated while in use. The noise is what is the biggest downside to most people, and a benefit in the direct drive motor's favour.

Do you have any good links to the Crystalyte motor? I like the lighter weight with the Thunderbolt, but would be nice to have something that might last longer, with fewer potential problems ... What is the price range for the Crystalyte?

http://www.ebikes.ca (http://www.ebikes.ca/)

^ is the most comprehensive website I can think of for Crystalyte. You can obtain Crystalyte quite readily just about anywhere, but the Renaissance Bicycle Company (ebikes.ca) has the most information on them. They also allow you to order components independently instead of a whole kit, which is nice, and their prices are good.

Crystalyte is quite affordable. According to the website at a glance $415 USD would buy a rear drive 408, a 36/20 controller, and a throttle of your choosing. You could read up on them all and find what works for you, but the Crystalyte is pretty fairly priced.

http://www.ebikes.ca (http://www.ebikes.ca/)

^ is the most comprehensive website I can think of for Crystalyte. You can obtain Crystalyte quite readily just about anywhere, but the Renaissance Bicycle Company (ebikes.ca) has the most information on them. They also allow you to order components independently instead of a whole kit, which is nice, and their prices are good.

Crystalyte is quite affordable. According to the website at a glance $415 USD would buy a rear drive 408, a 36/20 controller, and a throttle of your choosing. You could read up on them all and find what works for you, but the Crystalyte is pretty fairly priced.

Will I need to buy a freewheel in addition? I was thinking maybe I could change my 21-speed into a 24-speed, or a 27-speed?

So, how do people get the high speeds from their bicycles? People have posted that they can get up to 50 mph on their bicycle ...

Those are short bursts. You'll never go 50mph for any longer than 20 to 40 seconds for many reasons including safety, batteries won't last long, you'll be arrested...lol, the bike will break up over rough pavement etc...

It's nice to have good top speed for some situations in traffic, but mostly a person will settle in at about 30 to 40km/hr for a long trip.

:)

Will I need to buy a freewheel in addition? I was thinking maybe I could change my 21-speed into a 24-speed, or a 27-speed?

I currently run the 5304 crystallite front wheel and my other bike has the 5303 crystallite front wheel.

It's safe on the front wheel is you follow common sense rules. Never ever accelerate full bore, no offroad at all, steady acceleration at all times and go easy on the throtlle.

Otherwise, I've had no issues, both bikes have front suspension and one is even aluminum.

I do however have torque arms that are sold with the kits. Do use the torque arms.

Also, lithium is the battery of choice and with the 5303 if you use lithium, you'll be able to achieve bursts of speed around the 45mph range. Bursts, not steady speeds like that...:lol:


Btw, with front wheel install, you can do whatever you want with the gears... they won't be affected.

:)

Will I need to buy a freewheel in addition? I was thinking maybe I could change my 21-speed into a 24-speed, or a 27-speed?

You do not necessarily need to purchase a new freewheel. A bike shop would be able to remove the freewheel from your old wheel for you, which you can then thread on by hand to the motor when it arrives (no tools are needed to install, just to remove). You could go to a bike co-op if you have one locally and borrow their remover for a minute or something, too.

You could change to a 24 speed.. Be careful with choosing this route, as the 8sp cassette is wider and may make your motor too wide, or fit improperly. When I had an 8sp freewheel on my Crystalyte, I had to insert an additional washer on the right hand side and spread the dropouts of my Xtracycle a small amount: that was fine as my Xtracycle was steel, but you would not want to do that to an aluminum frame townie.

27 speeds is not possible with Crystalyte. One would need to spread the dropouts on your bicycle considerably, as well as placing multiple washers to have the freewheel clear the inside of the right dropout at all. As well, your Townie would need 9 speed shifters, chainrings and chain, increasing cost and difficulty farther.

Many speeds aren't really needed for an electric bike. The 21 speed setup of the townie is just fine. One thing you will benefit from is having high gearing so that you can still pedal well at high speeds. I would consider ordering a freewheel that goes all the way down to 11 teeth.

I currently run the 5304 crystallite front wheel and my other bike has the 5303 crystallite front wheel.

It's safe on the front wheel is you follow common sense rules. Never ever accelerate full bore, no offroad at all, steady acceleration at all times and go easy on the throtlle.

Otherwise, I've had no issues, both bikes have front suspension and one is even aluminum.

I do however have torque arms that are sold with the kits. Do use the torque arms.

Also, lithium is the battery of choice and with the 5303 if you use lithium, you'll be able to achieve bursts of speed around the 45mph range. Bursts, not steady speeds like that...:lol:


Btw, with front wheel install, you can do whatever you want with the gears... they won't be affected.

:)

I'd rather have the rear motor ... Will there be any problem with usign the 21 gears that came with my Townie, and still be able to use the hub motors? I have to go off the road many times around our town. The roads here are very bad ... There isn't enough money to keep the roads in good repair ... Many places I travel have no sidewalks. There are many potholes everywhere, huge cracks in the roads ... piles of stuff everywhere along the roads, and tons of obstacles everywhere .... !!!

Riding a bicycle where we live is a total nightmare ... !!! You really have to be alert and know the roads and sidewalks very well. So, realistically, I can see now that 20-30 mph is plenty of speed for me. There are some places with smooth riding surfaces, but not for great distances .... I know the travel routes pretty good now ... that I've been riding for so many years around here ....

I really like the 600W thunderbolt ... But I'm also considering a Crystalite ... Still need to reserach several other possiblities ...

You do not necessarily need to purchase a new freewheel. A bike shop would be able to remove the freewheel from your old wheel for you, which you can then thread on by hand to the motor when it arrives (no tools are needed to install, just to remove). You could go to a bike co-op if you have one locally and borrow their remover for a minute or something, too.

You could change to a 24 speed.. Be careful with choosing this route, as the 8sp cassette is wider and may make your motor too wide, or fit improperly. When I had an 8sp freewheel on my Crystalyte, I had to insert an additional washer on the right hand side and spread the dropouts of my Xtracycle a small amount: that was fine as my Xtracycle was steel, but you would not want to do that to an aluminum frame townie.

27 speeds is not possible with Crystalyte. One would need to spread the dropouts on your bicycle considerably, as well as placing multiple washers to have the freewheel clear the inside of the right dropout at all. As well, your Townie would need 9 speed shifters, chainrings and chain, increasing cost and difficulty farther.

Many speeds aren't really needed for an electric bike. The 21 speed setup of the townie is just fine. One thing you will benefit from is having high gearing so that you can still pedal well at high speeds. I would consider ordering a freewheel that goes all the way down to 11 teeth.

I still don't understand the difference with the number of teeth ... What difference does that make?

I think I'll stick with the gears that came with my bike. I'd rather not take any chances of having problems. We don't have any really steep hills like you find in San Francisco anyways. The only hills around here are the overpasses, and I only have to contend with one overpass, which is not that bad to pedal up ...

Will I need to buy a freewheel in addition? I was thinking maybe I could change my 21-speed into a 24-speed, or a 27-speed?

If you buy a rear hub motor you will need a freewheel to go with it. If your current bike is a 21-speed then it almost certainly doesn't have a freewheel, but a 7 gear cassette instead.

To avoid having to deal with getting different shifters, you should probably stick with a 21 speed setup rather than going for more gears. 7 gear freewheels are common, but freewheels with 8 or more gears can be very difficult to find. (almost every bike with 8 or more gears on the rear wheel uses a cassette.)

So, how do people get the high speeds from their bicycles? People have posted that they can get up to 50 mph on their bicycle ...

I don't think those speeds are legal, if obtained by using the assist. In other words, the bicycle isn't really a bicycle anymore and you would be breaking the law - perhaps this doesn't bother you.

I don't think it is safe to travel those speeds on a bicycle for an extended distance. Going downhill, I've gone as fast as 40 mph and it's fun for a short distance, but the possibility of permanent disability is astounding and terrifying to me. If one of your wheels is the least bit untrue, you'll know in a hurry at those speeds. Every bit of debris could mean disaster.

Truly, you should consider something made for those speeds or adjust your expectations to riding a bicycle in a realistic, safe manner. Just my opinion.

Townies have a 7 speed freewheel. However, the teeth: the Townie freewheel is a Shimano MegaRange 14-34, basically the smallest cog is 14 teeth, the largest 34. The 14 teeth cog is not considered a very high gear at all, and depending on how fast your bike ends up going, and how fast you like your cadence (how fast you like to turn your pedals), the Townie's range might make you spin too fast.

Buying a freewheel with a smaller high gear (11,12,13 teeth) will be likely to increase the likeliness you will enjoy pedaling while using the motor at high speeds. You can obviously just try using your original freewheel and changing it later if you don't like it.

Its your mention of not having hills that makes me think you might enjoy higher gearing. The 34t low gear of the original freewheel isn't going to be a benefit without any real hills, but the 14t could potentially be a detriment. Still, trying it out first is the easiest way to know if you need something else - and a 7 speed freewheel shouldn't be something you need to special order, its still a common part.

45-50 mph on a bicycle is pretty much a guaranteed death sentence, or at the least its something that will cripple you for life.

Bicycles are simply not made to handle that kind of speed the down forces and up forces from hitting a bump at those speeds will simply leave you on your face sliding down the road.

A motorcycle or a scooter are made for this type of forces and anything less is extremely dangerous to say the least

Bicycles are simply not made to handle that kind of speed the down forces and up forces from hitting a bump at those speeds will simply leave you on your face sliding down the road.

Change that to most bicycles and I'll agree.

My Optibike is equipped with very capable full suspension, motorized bottom bracket drive that keep unsprung mass to a minimum, strong mountain bike wheels, tough tires, and hydraulic disc brakes with a 10" front rotor. At 51 mph (on a steep downhill) it rides extremely well and handles bumps in stride.

Still, a fall or collision at that speed is unthinkable.

vja4Him, you're getting some great advice here. I'm glad you're reconsidering your desired top speed...25-30mph should be more than enough for a commuter bike. Once again, I'll vouch for my AmpedBikes kit shown over on Endless-Sphere that you posted on. Mine is 37v and does 22mph, but if you up it to 48v and 15 to 20 amp hour rate, it would fit your needs perfectly (28-30mph with 20+ mile range), all at around $1100 for the rear wheel kit and LiFePo4 48v 20ah battery. And you could make your own custom battery box to fit inside the frame like I did. My setup is perfectly balanced like that. It's a real joy to ride.
You might want to add AmpedBikes to your consideration list.

I don't think those speeds are legal, if obtained by using the assist. In other words, the bicycle isn't really a bicycle anymore and you would be breaking the law - perhaps this doesn't bother you.

I don't think it is safe to travel those speeds on a bicycle for an extended distance. Going downhill, I've gone as fast as 40 mph and it's fun for a short distance, but the possibility of permanent disability is astounding and terrifying to me. If one of your wheels is the least bit untrue, you'll know in a hurry at those speeds. Every bit of debris could mean disaster.

Truly, you should consider something made for those speeds or adjust your expectations to riding a bicycle in a realistic, safe manner. Just my opinion.

I have decided that speeds of more like 20-25 mph would be just fine! Even when I drive to work, I usually only can average 20 mph anyways! So, if I can use the electric motor to get me around between 15- 25 mph, that would be quite acceptable.

I know what you mean about riding a bicycle downhill at 40 mph! I've done that, and it can be scary!! I had a terrible accident riding my stingray bike (actually I was the passenger on the back!). We were going downhill, about 30 mph, and hit a curb. I went flying about 80 feet and broke my left femur!! Took a couple of years to fully recover, but I still have problems with my knee (from the traction).

Townies have a 7 speed freewheel. However, the teeth: the Townie freewheel is a Shimano MegaRange 14-34, basically the smallest cog is 14 teeth, the largest 34. The 14 teeth cog is not considered a very high gear at all, and depending on how fast your bike ends up going, and how fast you like your cadence (how fast you like to turn your pedals), the Townie's range might make you spin too fast.

Buying a freewheel with a smaller high gear (11,12,13 teeth) will be likely to increase the likeliness you will enjoy pedaling while using the motor at high speeds. You can obviously just try using your original freewheel and changing it later if you don't like it.

Its your mention of not having hills that makes me think you might enjoy higher gearing. The 34t low gear of the original freewheel isn't going to be a benefit without any real hills, but the 14t could potentially be a detriment. Still, trying it out first is the easiest way to know if you need something else - and a 7 speed freewheel shouldn't be something you need to special order, its still a common part.

I just got back from a night ride. I usually ride in 5th or 6th gear. Sometimes, like if there is a slight dip, I'll click into 7th gear. I hardly ever use the middle or large sprockets. I've tried them ... My oldest son likes to use the middle sprocket ...

I do want to be able to pedal along with the electric motor ...

vja4Him, you're getting some great advice here. I'm glad you're reconsidering your desired top speed...25-30mph should be more than enough for a commuter bike. Once again, I'll vouch for my AmpedBikes kit shown over on Endless-Sphere that you posted on. Mine is 37v and does 22mph, but if you up it to 48v and 15 to 20 amp hour rate, it would fit your needs perfectly (28-30mph with 20+ mile range), all at around $1100 for the rear wheel kit and LiFePo4 48v 20ah battery. And you could make your own custom battery box to fit inside the frame like I did. My setup is perfectly balanced like that. It's a real joy to ride.
You might want to add AmpedBikes to your consideration list.

Thanks for the tip! I watched the two videos .... and have the AmpedBibkes pages saved for reference. I'm sold for the electric motor!! I like the idea of a front hub motor, but I've read that could be a bit dangerous ... Not sure if I want to chance a front hub motor on my Electra Townie ...

vja4Him, you're getting some great advice here. I'm glad you're reconsidering your desired top speed...25-30mph should be more than enough for a commuter bike. Once again, I'll vouch for my AmpedBikes kit shown over on Endless-Sphere that you posted on. Mine is 37v and does 22mph, but if you up it to 48v and 15 to 20 amp hour rate, it would fit your needs perfectly (28-30mph with 20+ mile range), all at around $1100 for the rear wheel kit and LiFePo4 48v 20ah battery. And you could make your own custom battery box to fit inside the frame like I did. My setup is perfectly balanced like that. It's a real joy to ride.
You might want to add AmpedBikes to your consideration list.

Could you post some pictures of your electric bike?

I like the idea of a front hub motor, but I've read that could be a bit dangerous ... Not sure if I want to chance a front hub motor on my Electra Townie ...

But I'm talking about a rear hub kit with the battery & controller mounted in the frame.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/Vibraswirl/SilverMachine048.jpg

But I'm talking about a rear hub kit with the battery & controller mounted in the frame.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/Vibraswirl/SilverMachine048.jpg

What type of hub motor do you have? What kind of battery(ies) do you have? Your electric bicycle looks so clean. Some people probably don't even notice that you have an electric bike? I like the idea of hanging the batteries from the center. I suppose it's easy to remove the battery case, and take it with you so nobody can steal the batteries?

While your riding with the motor engaged, can you still switch gears on the bicycle? I feel like an idiot asking so many questions, but this whole electric bicycle idea is completely new to me ... I've never rode one ... And I don't know anybody with an electric bike.

I really do like your set up!!! Did the plastic box for the battery come with the motor kit? How much did your motor kit run you ... ???


But I'm talking about a rear hub kit with the battery & controller mounted in the frame.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/Vibraswirl/SilverMachine048.jpg

Thats the ampedbikes.com kit on a townie. Nice looking ride!
Heres another amped kit from their website with a clite battery pack. On the amped forums they said they are making a similar battery pack.

http://ampedbikes.com/ampedbikeslr.JPG

Thats the ampedbikes.com kit on a townie. Nice looking ride!
Heres another amped kit from their website with a clite battery pack. On the amped forums they said they are making a similar battery pack.

http://ampedbikes.com/ampedbikeslr.JPG

Very nice and clean looking! Is it possible to get a hub with a black rim? My Electra Townie came with black rims, matching the black frame, so I'd like to try and keep the rims black ....

Vja4him, the concern with the Townie having front drive is in its stock fork, which is a SR Suntour aluminum fork. It isn't spectacularly strong, and the dropouts on this fork have a shape which some motor washers have a hard time fitting, making it harder to lock down properly in some cases.

If you want front drive, the Townie can be fitted with a high quality cro moly steel fork without much cost or difficulty. From my opinion though, there's nothing to lose by using rear drive with the townie - no disks or high end drivetrain to lose.

I'll post my townie up here in a bit.

Vja4him, the concern with the Townie having front drive is in its stock fork, which is a SR Suntour aluminum fork. It isn't spectacularly strong, and the dropouts on this fork have a shape which some motor washers have a hard time fitting, making it harder to lock down properly in some cases.

If you want front drive, the Townie can be fitted with a high quality cro moly steel fork without much cost or difficulty. From my opinion though, there's nothing to lose by using rear drive with the townie - no disks or high end drivetrain to lose.

I'll post my townie up here in a bit.

I'd rather stick with the rear hub motor. I'm wondering if I can get a black rim to match the front original rim?

Sure. You can either try and find a shop which has that as an option, or try and find a shop which does their own wheel building for the motors - see if they'll build one up custom for you with a black rim.

Worst case scenario, you may have to do it yourself or have a shop do it for you after purchasing.

vja4Him,
Go to http://ampedbikes.com/ and look at the rear kit. They come in black now. They are great motors - faster, lighter, more torque, and better made than the Crystalyte 400 series motors - and it's waterproof.
Yes, you can still use the gears with it. In fact, it comes with a five gear cluster on it...or, you can put your Townie gear cluster on it after you get it. The silver rim it comes with is better than your stock Townie rim. It's a very strong double wall rim where as your Townie rim is single wall. That's very important when you have that extra weight of the hub motor. It has heavy duty 12 gauge spokes, too.
The battery is a 37v 10ah Lithium Manganese (puchased seperate from kit) which gets me to 22mph without pedaling. The battery box is homemade and bolts on with the water bottle screws. It's big enough to hold a 48v battery which I'm getting soon, and should get me to 28-30mph - which is fast enough. Mounting your battery in the frame is the best with a rear motor - it keeps the bike balanced.

Bikefreaks,
Nice bike! Great setup, we think alike. Is this your battery box? -
http://www.ativsolutions.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ASL&Product_Code=BAT-36VNiMH&Category_Code=PARTS

I have one gent who comes into the shop occasionally, the guy is 300lbs and has no trouble from his townie's wheels. They're heavy but they hold. The bigger reason to dislike them to me, is that they've got an unmachined braking surface, which is pointless on this bike. The pads are going to wear the pretty black off, ruining the aesthetics anyways - and you don't get good performance off them.

The front wheel that came with my Townie wasn't impressive quality, and had a surface irregularity that just made for crappy braking in general - it was quickly replaced with a disk brake capable wheel. I would suggest not re-using these rims as well, if you're into a black rim then buy a fresh, higher quality one to go with your wheel.

The kits which are sold by ampedbikes are supposedly de-branded Nine Continent motors. I've heard very good things about them, for a direct drive system, similar comments to what Vim has to say - the only negative comment i've heard so far is that they're not really compatible with 7 or 8 speed freewheels, but someone who owns a rear drive Nine Continent (ampedbikes) would have to confirm that.

At any rate, the Nine Continent/Ampedbikes motors could be another good option.

Oh, here's a non-glamorous shot of my Townie, just for kicks. The experience has been much more enjoyable since ditching the extremely sub-par front wheel. Snagged a fairly decent Deore/Mavic disk wheel that came from an old Rocky Mountain at my bike shop, and switched over.

Its a bit of a stealth electric. The controller and throttle are the only exposed components from the electric system, the battery pack is contained within a weather proofed bag in the Xtracycle.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/Abneycat/DSCN0983Medium.jpg

A full fender is on the list of things to add. And since the snow has all melted again, I may take the ice tire off for a few more weeks :)

vja4Him,
Go to http://ampedbikes.com/ and look at the rear kit. They come in black now. They are great motors - faster, lighter, more torque, and better made than the Crystalyte 400 series motors - and it's waterproof.
Yes, you can still use the gears with it. In fact, it comes with a five gear cluster on it...or, you can put your Townie gear cluster on it after you get it. The silver rim it comes with is better than your stock Townie rim. It's a very strong double wall rim where as your Townie rim is single wall. That's very important when you have that extra weight of the hub motor. It has heavy duty 12 gauge spokes, too.
The battery is a 37v 10ah Lithium Manganese (puchased seperate from kit) which gets me to 22mph without pedaling. The battery box is homemade and bolts on with the water bottle screws. It's big enough to hold a 48v battery which I'm getting soon, and should get me to 28-30mph - which is fast enough. Mounting your battery in the frame is the best with a rear motor - it keeps the bike balanced.

Bikefreaks,
Nice bike! Great setup, we think alike. Is this your battery box? -
http://www.ativsolutions.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ASL&Product_Code=BAT-36VNiMH&Category_Code=PARTS

How does the Crystalyte compare to the Thunderbolt? I would really like to have at least a 750W electric hub motor, with the lithium batteries that will take 2,000 charges.

Oh, here's a non-glamorous shot of my Townie, just for kicks. The experience has been much more enjoyable since ditching the extremely sub-par front wheel. Snagged a fairly decent Deore/Mavic disk wheel that came from an old Rocky Mountain at my bike shop, and switched over.

Its a bit of a stealth electric. The controller and throttle are the only exposed components from the electric system, the battery pack is contained within a weather proofed bag in the Xtracycle.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/Abneycat/DSCN0983Medium.jpg

A full fender is on the list of things to add. And since the snow has all melted again, I may take the ice tire off for a few more weeks :)

You ride your bicycle in the snow/ice? I tried that before .... didn't work out very well !!!

In most categories, both the Crystalyte and Nine Continent (ampedbikes) motors are sorely beaten by geared hub motors. The BMC Thunderbolt style motor is much lighter, will accelerate faster, provide much higher torque output, and freewheel, meaning that it will be more enjoyable to pedal without the motor. Geared units are top performers in the hub motor class.

There are a few drawbacks, the direct drive motors cause less noise, the Crystalyte and NC kits will be quieter. Good direct drive hub motors typically only make noise when under stress, like climbing. Geared kits output audible noise, as they have moving gears. It isn't horrendous.

One other thing is that Crystalyte motors have extremely robust wiring and will take a huge voltage range. You can't push most hub motors as hard as Crystalyte will take it.

If you're wanting a comparison, check out this link:

http://ebikes.ca/simulator/

The hub motor simulator on Ebikes.ca has the Crystalyte and Nine Continent stuff on it. It doesn't have BMC, but there is eZee at least.

It can help to have purpose built winter tires :)

How does the Crystalyte compare to the Thunderbolt? I would really like to have at least a 750W electric hub motor, with the lithium batteries that will take 2,000 charges.

What Abneycat said. I was under the impression though that you wanted to spend only around $1000. A Thunderbolt kit will cost you more than twice as much as a Crystalyte or AmpedBikes kit.

Oh, here's a non-glamorous shot of my Townie, just for kicks. The experience has been much more enjoyable since ditching the extremely sub-par front wheel. Snagged a fairly decent Deore/Mavic disk wheel that came from an old Rocky Mountain at my bike shop, and switched over.

Its a bit of a stealth electric. The controller and throttle are the only exposed components from the electric system, the battery pack is contained within a weather proofed bag in the Xtracycle.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/Abneycat/DSCN0983Medium.jpg

A full fender is on the list of things to add. And since the snow has all melted again, I may take the ice tire off for a few more weeks :)

Nice Townie, Abneycat! What all do you carry on it, and how does it handle with the longer wheel base? It looks very useful.

Never found the townie to be too much of an agile machine, but it handles predictably and rides comfortably. Previously, the Xtracycle was mounted to a Rocky Mountain Fusion - which was a more off-road capable machine, and certainly more agile, but the townie is quite comfortable and the ability to put one's feet down at stops without dismounting is very nice. Townies have a nice mellow design that lends itself well to casual cyclists.

Really, my only dislike of the townie is in some of the poor components used. No other bike in the world I can think of costs $550 CAD, comes with Tourney and rims as poor as those included. Can't imagine that the frame and saddle (which are the only really unique things) cost so much that they couldn't include some slightly better parts. C'est la vie, n'est ce-pas?

I could be wrong, perhaps the unique design eats up a lot of that production cost. But when Kona is pimping out $425 street bikes with components 2 levels up and 4130 frames, it seems like Electra could squeeze in a bit more. Even my Dahon folder rocks out better parts at $400.

Guess they've got a niche market.

Typically, I carry shop tools, other bicycles, groceries and firedancing equipment. The Xtracycle pairs well with the Townie.

Why did you buy it if you didn't like the components? Didn't you look it over, read the specs, or test ride it first? It seems like a nice bike to me for $450.

I bought it because the frame is nice. And really, a lot of bikes need personalizing/upgrading after purchase. I can live with how it comes, but it does seem under-spec for its price range. The other company whose crank forwards caught my eye was RANS, and their bicycles start out at a considerably higher price point.

Many of the things on the Townie are workable. Not tops, but it doesn't fall apart on you. The Townies could benefit from having a better spec, but considering their casual intent aren't reliant on it. They do a model called the Townie 24, which is the same bike but with a considerably higher spec all around.

One thing I noticed is that upon visiting the website again, Electra actually still does offer the Townie 24 which is made with nicer parts, they simply don't offer it as a plain bike - just in their "art" style. Given that on the website, there's only a tiny far away shot and a major macro shot of the paint, its hard to tell what the art is. Kinda looks like splotchy spray paint.

What Abneycat said. I was under the impression though that you wanted to spend only around $1000. A Thunderbolt kit will cost you more than twice as much as a Crystalyte or AmpedBikes kit.

What is the cost of the Thunderbolt?

I couldn't tell you what it would cost you in California. Here, its about $850 CAD I believe.

BMC also has a 400w version (Thunderbolt is 600w), which runs about $650. The 400w model would perform with similar speed to a Crysalyte or NC/ampedbikes kit, but with the geared motor benefits.

There are probably some pretty good US internet dealers, check them out to find exact pricing for your region.

I couldn't tell you what it would cost you in California. Here, its about $850 CAD I believe.

BMC also has a 400w version (Thunderbolt is 600w), which runs about $650. The 400w model would perform with similar speed to a Crysalyte or NC/ampedbikes kit, but with the geared motor benefits.

There are probably some pretty good US internet dealers, check them out to find exact pricing for your region.

What exactly are the geared motor benefits ... ???