Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Rando/Brevet lighting

Currently on my commuter/touring bike, a Surly LHT, I use the Lupine Wilma 6 as my lighting source for my early morning commutes. The light is fantastic. Next year, I want to expand my riding to include 200k's and 300K"s. My concern is regarding the significantly longer rides where I may have an increased time in lighting requirements. Would it be in my best interest to incorporate a hub lighting system to work with the Lupine or just purchase an additional battery pack to have along for the rides?

Look forward to your thoughts.

Batteries are just one more thing to worry about.
I don't know about powering the lupine off a hub but the newer LED dyno lights give plenty of light, or you can DIY your own (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2692023&postcount=49).

extra battery - it will be cheaper, easier, and best of all, no drag

Let me clarify. The Lupine will still be powered by a battery pack. I am just wondering if a hub system
would be beneficial as well or is it overkill?

Let me clarify. The Lupine will still be powered by a battery pack. I am just wondering if a hub system
would be beneficial as well or is it overkill?

it's always nice to have redundancy for your brevet set-up, so in that sense, a hub system wouldn't necessarily be overkill. however, you could also accomplish that with another battery-powered light too.

Also, what is the run-time for your Lupine on its various settings?

a generator hub would be beneficial not just for brevets, but also for commuting and general night use. I owned a Sigma Designs EvoX for a while, and while it was a fine light, I found that keeping it fully charged all the time was a chore, especially for day-in, day-out commutes. Going to a generator was blissfully maintenance free after that.

With that said, a generator hub is not required. Lots of folks finish brevets with regular battery lights, and I did my entire first brevet series (200 - 600) with the EvoX and a couple of other AAA-powered lights for backup.

I would also definitely say, if the price tag of a generator system makes you hesitate, you can get redudancy and all-night performance by just getting an LED light powered by conventional disposable batteries, like the Cateye EL-530. The benefit is that you can carry any number of spares that you need and can buy extras en route if you feel like you need more ... unlike with a proprietary rechargeable battery pack.

I would also add -- if you're just eyeing 200k and 300k's you probably won't need an extra battery pack. 200k and 300k brevets are usually run with an early morning start, so normally you just need light for the first couple of hours until the sun rises. It's the 400k and 600k where you're going to need something that can go all night long. If you don't plan on doing a 400k, then a generator hub is definitely overkill.

The running time configuration that I set up for the Lupine is:
low-42 hours
mid-15 hours
high-6 hours

i run a dynohub for commuting as well as brevets. you can't feel the drag once you start rolling - i run it all day normally, and don't seem any slower because of it.

one thing you might think about for brevets is navigating at night; when that times comes (e.g. to read the cue in the dark), a headlamp might be something to look into as well.

one thing you might think about for brevets is navigating at night; when that times comes (e.g. to read the cue in the dark), a headlamp might be something to look into as well.
I zipped a cheap cateye light to my helmet for cue and instrument reading in the dark:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_DdgtWvQjwRQ/SRU1yQ_btBI/AAAAAAAAA5M/rQBLJ72SMtM/s288/IMG_1198.JPG

I also use a dynohub and Edulux.

I zipped a cheap cateye light to my helmet for cue and instrument reading in the dark:

I also use a dynohub and Edulux.

I have a dyno and a Supernova E3, but again, that's no good if you've got to read something or if you flat out in the dark in the middle of street-light-less nowhere.
I have a Petzl Tikka hiking light zip-tied to the front of my helmet. (although it's getting old the switch is a little cranky, so I should think about replacing it soon.)

I have a dyno and a Supernova E3, but again, that's no good if you've got to read something or if you flat out in the dark in the middle of street-light-less nowhere.
I have a Petzl Tikka hiking light zip-tied to the front of my helmet. (although it's getting old the switch is a little cranky, so I should think about replacing it soon.)

I used to have Petzl Tikka for a similar purpose but found that the plastic case cracked after a couple of years of use, and allowed water to leak in and ruin the electronics. They're fine as cheap headlamps, but they don't seem to be built to last very long.

I used what I could afford my first few seasons -- a NiteHawk digital emitter. Not bad at the time, but one night, shivering and fumbling at the top of a pass, trying to replace batteries for the decent, I swore i'd never fiddle with batteries again.

Already, I had tagged on to riders running generator hubs -- because I'd often "outrun" my lighting.

I saved up for a Schmidt hub and have never looked back. The first year, I ran an E-6, then added a secondary E-6 for Paris-Brest-Paris, during which I often had an international peloton of riders with inadequate lighting stuck to my wheel on decents!

This year, I sprang for the Edelux headlight. Wow! I describe its virtues here (http://www.veloweb.ca/storypages/hatrick.html).

Drag is inconsequential, but, if you want to get technical: (PDF) (http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/VBQgenerator.pdf).

For next season, now I have the Edelux, which "comes up to speed" more quickly than halogen), I have invested in the new SON 20. I'll move the 26 to my Bleriot 650b.

I use a small helmet mounted LED for route sheet reading and sign spotting.

I've been running a Schmidt hub as my primary light, with an E6. For secondary lighting I have a helmet mounted NiteHawk emitter. Just got an E6 secondary to run with the primary, and it definitely helps light up the whole road for descents. I'll still use the helmet light, because roads are often twistier than the bike-mounted lights can follow, and sometimes it's helpful to be able to "flash" a car that has forgotten to dim their lights, or shine at street signs. But if the NiteHawk ever dies, then the Princeton Tec EOS Bike seems perfectly capable at $37.

Dynamo hub means that if the battery light (or its batteries) fail or die, then I still have light. Battery light means that if the dynamo (or its wires or the bulb that it is powering) ever fail then I still have light.

I also just bought two dynamo hub wheels for $107 apiece. They are primarily for commuting, but I'll probably also use one for shorter and less important rando events where I would like to save wear and tear on the expensive Schmidt hub and on the somewhat more delicate Mavic Open Pro rim.

These use the Shimano D371 hub, which has about the same resistance with the lights switched off as the Schmidt hub, but may be slightly less efficient with the lights switched on. The rims are Salsa Delgado and they are really bulletproof. The total weight of the wheel is about a half pound higher than the Schmidt wheel.

Some day maybe I'll get an Edelux.

Nick

I used to have Petzl Tikka for a similar purpose but found that the plastic case cracked after a couple of years of use, and allowed water to leak in and ruin the electronics. They're fine as cheap headlamps, but they don't seem to be built to last very long.

Bingo! That's why I have to replace mine; and in about the same amount of time, too. The housing around the switch is split, and the switch doesn't work well anymore. It was a great lamp for hiking, and reading a map/compass in the dark or a book light before heading to sleep. Not so much for all-weather cycling.

I also just bought two dynamo hub wheels for $107 apiece. They are primarily for commuting, but I'll probably also use one for shorter and less important rando events where I would like to save wear and tear on the expensive Schmidt hub and on the somewhat more delicate Mavic Open Pro rim.


I wouldn't worry about the durability of your SON/Mavic wheel. I run a SON28/DT RR1.1 front wheel on my distance bike, which is also my commuter. I log about 500mi/month through all sorts of conditions, be them weather or poor roads/paths. Plus, I weigh 250 pounds. I'm not really 'forgiving' on my equipment, and I've had no problems (and have no future worries) about my SON hub.

Dynamo hub means that if the battery light (or its batteries) fail or die, then I still have light. Battery light means that if the dynamo (or its wires or the bulb that it is powering) ever fail then I still have light.

A couple words on Schmidt light failures. You should always carry a couple spare bulbs for the E6 lights. They are inexpensive and weigh nothing. My experience with E6 lights was that bulb failures are more common than led to expect.

Wiring problems should be rare. When they do occur, it is almost always the wire breaking off the connector. Repairing a spade connector is difficult along the road and can be very frustrating. One way to be prepared for this possibility is to crimp a short wire to a spare spade lug and toss it to your saddlebag. Then, should you have a wire break off of a hub connector, you can use a knife to strip the wire back, twist it to the prepared wire, and plug it back into the generator. Put a bit of electrical or duct tape on the connection to help keep it together. A five minute fix and you're back on the road.

>>I also just bought two dynamo hub wheels for $107 apiece

Vendor?

PM is OK if you can't come right out and say. :)

Thanks,

FalconDriver
Ohio

A couple words on Schmidt light failures. You should always carry a couple spare bulbs for the E6 lights. They are inexpensive and weigh nothing. My experience with E6 lights was that bulb failures are more common than led to expect. yeah, I'd agree with that. I recall someone saying that you have to be careful about touching the glass on the bulbs and transferring the oil on your skin to the surface of the bulb. Makes the difference between a light lasting 5 hours or 500.

In my experience, though, it's more like the difference between 5 and 100. Even with taking precautions, I can't seem to make a bulb endure more than three months of constant day-in, day-out use.

really, at this point, though, if someone's spec'ing a new wheel and lighting system, there's no reason to stay with halogen. A new E6 goes for 112 one Peter White's site, and for a little less, you can get the B&M IQ Fly, which is, imho, perfectly serviceable for brevets.

really, at this point, though, if someone's spec'ing a new wheel and lighting system, there's no reason to stay with halogen. A new E6 goes for 112 one Peter White's site, and for a little less, you can get the B&M IQ Fly, which is, imho, perfectly serviceable for brevets.

For less than the cost of a twin E6 setup (which I've seen on many a bike up here, so I'm assuming it's not too uncommon) you can get one of the two mega-power LEDs: The Supernova E3 or the Schmidt Edelux and have a light output greater than the twin halogens.
I've ridden with a friend who uses the IQ Fly, and for 90% of night riders, that light will definitely do the trick. Price vs. light output, I'm hard-pressed to think of any other dyno-powered lamps that come close.

really, at this point, though, if someone's spec'ing a new wheel and lighting system, there's no reason to stay with halogen. A new E6 goes for 112 one Peter White's site, and for a little less, you can get the B&M IQ Fly, which is, imho, perfectly serviceable for brevets.

Yep, I have primary & secondary E-6s that won't see any use since I bought the Edelux.

I think you'll see a lot of those common E-6s on e-Bay soon.

Yes, I wasn't trying to tout dual E6's as the ideal system. If I were buying a new light for rando use, it'd most likely be an Edelux. But I wanted to equip my two rando bikes, plus my commute bike and my wife's commute bike and the tandem (since we're starting to do longer rides together) and maybe my winter commute bike. And since used E6's and Lumotecs are starting to be available cheap, I could equip all those bikes with lights for less than the price of one Edelux.

I do carry extra bulbs for the halogens, and replaced two last year, one in the middle of PBP (my friend said "I hope you know what you're doing because I'm not coming back for you." Amazing how fiddly it can be to swap a bulb at 3 in the morning on the third night of a 1200K. Next time I'll replace the bulbs before the 1200K). The idea of carrying a little rat-tail of wire with a spade connector is a good one and I may well do it. Another tiny little bit of weight in the repair kit. Sort of like the thin mint in the Monty Python skit, though.

The wheels were bought from www.bikeman.com. You can also get them from www.aebike.com. AE Bike has better prices but Bikeman has better product mix. AE Bike has an easier to use website with nice search features for many products, but for some reason cannot ship you Shimano stuff. Bikeman had Nokian 700c Hakkapellita 240-stud tires for my wife's winter bike, and since they price-matched the wheels to AE Bike's price, Bikeman got the order. I've ordered most of my bike stuff over the last few years from those two. But sometimes Lickton's gets an order, or Cambria Bike. For more specialized stuff: Rivendell, Wallingford, Harris Cyclery, Velo Orange.

The wheels needed badly to be "touched up" -- tension was all over the map and the wheels were not true. I retensioned the spokes so that they were all even around each side, stress-relieved, then trued them up, rechecked tension, re-stress-relieved. It took me about an hour per wheel, during which I watched Kitchen Nightmares and CSI. Good thing I'm not trying to make a living by truing wheels. But I'm not in any hurry and prefer to just go slowly and (I hope) end up with a wheel that can take a daily commute beating.

One person commented on the indestructibility of Schmidt hubs. I haven't had any problems with mine, but I cracked two Mavic Open Pro rims this summer (both were failures near spoke nipple on rear wheel). My Schmidt will be 4 years old next March and has over 15000 miles on it. I just figured: With really good quality dynamo wheels available for $107, I'll buy one and use it for shorter rando rides and save the Schmidt for the rides where a lighter wheel really makes a difference, like 600K or 1200K. The Salsa Delgado rim on the cheapo wheel is a cross-bike rim, so I figure it can take a good, hard pothole hit and keep right on running.

I built a couple of little rat-tail adapters with spade connectors so that the lights that I have can connect just as happily to either the Schmidt or to the Shimano hub.

Nick

Would it be in my best interest to incorporate a hub lighting system to work with the Lupine or just purchase an additional battery pack to have along for the rides?I agree with previous post - suggesting that "redundancy" is the more important that the run time of single lighting system.

Bear in mind, generators are fairly dim at 0mph and "two of anything" is better - if "one light you use doesn't work!"

I would love to get an eDelux but nobody seems to have them. Where are you all getting yours?

I would love to get an eDelux but nobody seems to have them. Where are you all getting yours?

They are trickling into NA very slowly. I had probably the first in Canada as I'd put in a standing order with the distributer long before they were available. I was working in the bike retail business at the time. That helped.

You could get in the lineup @ Peter White.

I do carry extra bulbs for the halogens, and replaced two last year, one in the middle of PBP (my friend said "I hope you know what you're doing because I'm not coming back for you." Amazing how fiddly it can be to swap a bulb at 3 in the morning on the third night of a 1200K.
Nick

That's funny.:lol: I spent a half hour at Loudeac in the dark and rain, replacing the bulb in my secondary E-6. I took the dead bulb out, opened the film canister containing my spares, got the dud and new bulb mixed up, guessed but put the old bulb back in! Then, I stared blankly at the bulbs, wondering why I'd taken the bulb out in the first place.

After I remembered what I was doing, I had the idea to put a piece of grass in the ziplock with the blown bulb. Then, I looked at the grass in the bag with the bulb and was sure I'd gone mad.

Finally, I re-established the train of thought enabling me to finish the task and returned to the skill I am able to do in my sleep: turn pedals in circles.

Yes, I'll be installing the E-6s on my commuter.

If anyone is selling their E6's, please PM me...

The edelux is a bit out of this grad students price range.

The edelux is a bit out of this grad students price range.
Even if you had the money, the Edelux has been out of stock for months, and it would still take ages to get one.

If anyone is selling their E6's, please PM me...

The edelux is a bit out of this grad students price range.

You could try the IQ Fly. I have one, and it is pretty good (and a whole lot cheaper then the eDelux). Have to admit though that I am looking to upgrade to the eDelux if they ever ship any more.

You could try the IQ Fly. I have one, and it is pretty good (and a whole lot cheaper then the eDelux). Have to admit though that I am looking to upgrade to the eDelux if they ever ship any more.

Yes, the IQ Fly is a nice light -- same optics as the Edelux. But the Edelux stands in a class by itself.

In fact, another small shipment of lights went out this month to shops with standing orders. It is, as I said, a trickle of product to NA, but shouldn't be characterized as at a standstill.

Has anyone seen this? $148 Edelux in stock

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/currency/USD/product-Schmidt-Schmidt-Edelux-High-Power-LED-headlight-with-Standlight-and-Senso-17283.htm

Has anyone seen this? $148 Edelux in stock

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/currency/USD/product-Schmidt-Schmidt-Edelux-High-Power-LED-headlight-with-Standlight-and-Senso-17283.htm
It's just great.
I live in Germany, where the Edelux is manufactured, and it's impossible to find one anywhere over here. The website says in German that due to high demand there is a delay of 27 weeks, but it's in stock in the US... :twitchy:
Ah well, I bought a Supernova E3 instead.

Actually that's a british website, but it is funny how things like that work. Maybe you should just knock on the factory door? :)

currently running dual e6s, a danolite or petzl e+lite on the helmet.
i have an ixon iq (bat powered) that i like for commuting and town use.
i just ordered an eDelux from PW... so i'll be waiting until spring for it to arrive. (which gives me time to save my pennies)

the ixon IQ is impressive... it will go along on the longer events as a backup / flashlight or for long, slow climbs (my e6s flicker at slow speed... and using only one works but its not very bright @ 4 mph). might change my mind about it when i see the eDelux

i was going to sell my e6s, but my wife wants them for a bike we're building up for her...

anoyone try the Busch&Müller Lumotec IQ Cyo?
its supposedly BMs entry into the very bright led dynamo powered headlight category.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/B&M175q.jpg

cheaper than en eDelux. and if its brighter than an ixon IQ it would be quite a deal... and quite a light.

I have a Schmidt / E3 combo and just love it. I wouldn't hesitate to get one if I couldn't find an eDelux.

I'm surprised know one is mentioning this bad boy...

http://www.supernova-lights.com/shop/show_product.php?products_id=107&language=en

I have a Schmidt / E3 combo and just love it. I wouldn't hesitate to get one if I couldn't find an eDelux.

I'm surprised know one is mentioning this bad boy...

http://www.supernova-lights.com/shop/show_product.php?products_id=107&language=en

which schmidt? eDelux?
are you running in series? do you use the eDelux as primary and the E3 as high beam?

Has anyone seen this? $148 Edelux in stock

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/currency/USD/product-Schmidt-Schmidt-Edelux-High-Power-LED-headlight-with-Standlight-and-Senso-17283.htm

They didn't last long if they did have them. I ordered one Sunday after seeing this and got an email this morning that they are out until March.

I'm surprised know one is mentioning this bad boy...

http://www.supernova-lights.com/shop/show_product.php?products_id=107&language=en

CRIKEY! Is that a headlight or a photon torpedo? :lol:

I didn't realize that they have their asymmetrical beam E3 lights out. Thanks for the link. I do a lot of riding in the dark along some steep, winding, no-street-light roads and I've been waiting for that focused beam E3 to come out so I can run a twin E3 setup; one symmetrical and one focused. Sort of a high-beam, low-beam combo.

the ixon IQ is impressive... it will go along on the longer events as a backup / flashlight or for long, slow climbs (my e6s flicker at slow speed... and using only one works but its not very bright @ 4 mph). might change my mind about it when i see the eDelux.

If the Edelux is similar to the E3 at low speeds, you won't be disappointed. I've got a couple hills where my speed drops to around 5mph and there's no flicker to the E3 at all. There's a difference in the intensity from 5mph to higher speeds, but it's still plenty enough to see with at 5mph.

Sorry for the confusion bmike, I have a Schmidt dyno hub / E3 combo.

Clifton, I talked to a rep from Supernova and he told me the E3 Triple really is about 3x brighter than the standard E3. That is one hell of a light then!

I've been very satisfied w/ the Ixon IQ from PWCycles-you can use their recharging system -outlet not hub-or use your own AA batteries. I believe the full power is 6 hours and the lower power-plenty for City Commuting is 20 hours on one charge-enough for a 200,300,&400km. For a 600 w/o support I just bring an extra set of batteries. I used the CatEye HL-500's for 4 years and the newer LED's are much brighter and the Ixon IQ has a much brighter beam than any halogen I've used. One option is to use the Velo-Orange/Nitto axle nut to attatch a light if space is an issue. A small helmet mounted light is also very useful for reading cue sheets/changing flat tires etc. Have fun and enjoy the ride !

Clifton, I talked to a rep from Supernova and he told me the E3 Triple really is about 3x brighter than the standard E3. That is one hell of a light then!

Yikes! I can see why they specifically market that one as a 24hr trail racer light. There's no way anyone should be using that on the street. The regular E3 is enough incedental spill; 3x as much would be horrible for oncoming traffic.

I've definitely got to sock away some pennies toward the E3 asymmetrical light, though. Does anyone have pictures of the E3 focused beam pattern, or know if it's similar to the Edelux pattern?

That's a story that can really only be appreciated by someone who's ridden on the third or fourth day of a 1200. It all sounds like your brain has been reduced to that of a 3-year-old, which is pretty-much exactly what happens.


That's funny.:lol: I spent a half hour at Loudeac in the dark and rain, replacing the bulb in my secondary E-6. I took the dead bulb out, opened the film canister containing my spares, got the dud and new bulb mixed up, guessed but put the old bulb back in! Then, I stared blankly at the bulbs, wondering why I'd taken the bulb out in the first place.

After I remembered what I was doing, I had the idea to put a piece of grass in the ziplock with the blown bulb. Then, I looked at the grass in the bag with the bulb and was sure I'd gone mad.

Finally, I re-established the train of thought enabling me to finish the task and returned to the skill I am able to do in my sleep: turn pedals in circles.

Yes, I'll be installing the E-6s on my commuter.

Does anyone have pictures of the E3 focused beam pattern, or know if it's similar to the Edelux pattern?
On this page (http://www.supernova-lights.com/newsite/e3_comparison_de.html).

On this page (http://www.supernova-lights.com/newsite/e3_comparison_de.html).

Awesome! Thanks. :)

(That triple is completely insane. It's like stadium lighting.)

I was planning on getting the edelux set up for my rando bike. But after carefully looking at the needs for my wife and I(she also rando's and we ride tandem together) It did not make a whole lot sense to put it out that much money for just my bike this year. Now we are looking for a system that will work for my bike, her bike and our tandem.

So we have been looking at battery powered lights. I must say that there really is not a lot out there that is even close to alright for randonneuring.

The closest I have been able to find is niteriders MOAB HID/LED system. It seems that this set up would allow for a 7.5 hour burn time at maximum power and 11.5 hours on medium or switch it to LEd and get 720 hours. But now niterider won't be carrying it in 2009. As they are phasing out HID systems.

So we will have to see what we can find

If you use a helmet mounted light for maps and additional visibility, I just picked up a good one: the Princeton Tec Quad. I replaced my rapidly dying Petzl Tikka with this guy, because water managed to seep into the Tikka and corrode the switch. The Quad is waterproof to 1 meter, so I'm fairly certain that no amount of rain will manage to get inside of it.
4 LEDs
4 modes: High/Mid/Low and blink
Hinged mount base, easy to zip-tie to helmet

Is anyone using edelux and the supernova taillight? I have both edelux and an E3, and will sell the one I end up liking less (basically focused/symmetrical beam considerations). But I dont know if the E3 taillight will be driven by the edelux. If not, that is a concern, I know that the SN taillight is DC, but I do not know if the edelux outputs DC...

thanks

anoyone try the Busch&Müller Lumotec IQ Cyo?
its supposedly BMs entry into the very bright led dynamo powered headlight category.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/B&M175q.jpg

cheaper than en eDelux. and if its brighter than an ixon IQ it would be quite a deal... and quite a light.

I just ordered one from SJS last week. From what I have seen and heard about this light I, I can't wait to see it in action. The price is also a great selling point at less that $150US. I'm currently running a pair of Cateye EL520's and this will be my introduction to dyno lighting.

Peter White's got the IQ Cyo listed at $104.25 and $111.25 (with and without senso, respectively). Dunno if he actually HAS any, but it'd be worth a shot.

SP
Bend, OR