General Cycling Discussion - Asperger's Syndrome - high % among cyclists?

I really hope nobody's offended by this, but... in the past I've made casual observations that there seems to be a higher-than-average percentage of left-handed people in the scientific community where I work currently, and a higher-than-average percentage of dyslexic people in the Art School where I worked before. And now, having spent some time in the company of other cyclists, and watching the goings-on in some cycling forums, I'm wondering if there's an unusually high percentage of individuals with Asperger's Syndrome in the cycling community. Perhaps the recumbent cycling community specifically?

Before you all spill your beer and start spewing vitriol and venom, have a look though the following list of criteria for diagnosis, and see if any bells start ringing. I can think of a few people who tick most of the boxes, all cyclists, but i think in my life I've only ever come across one obvious case outside of the cycling community.


GILLBERG'S CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER

1.Severe impairment in reciprocal social interaction
(at least two of the following)
(a) inability to interact with peers
(b) lack of desire to interact with peers
(c) lack of appreciation of social cues
(d) socially and emotionally inappropriate behavior

2.All-absorbing narrow interest
(at least one of the following)
(a) exclusion of other activities
(b) repetitive adherence
(c) more rote than meaning

3.Imposition of routines and interests
(at least one of the following)
(a) on self, in aspects of life
(b) on others

4.Speech and language problems
(at least three of the following)
(a) delayed development
(b) superficially perfect expressive language
(c) formal, pedantic language
(d) odd prosody, peculiar voice characteristics
(e) impairment of comprehension including misinterpretations of literal/implied meanings

5.Non-verbal communication problems
(at least one of the following)
(a) limited use of gestures
(b) clumsy/gauche body language
(c) limited facial expression
(d) inappropriate expression
(e) peculiar, stiff gaze

6.Motor clumsiness: poor performance on neurodevelopmental examination

(All six criteria must be met for confirmation of diagnosis.)

"Motor clumsiness"?!?

This just cracks me up

I have wondered the same thing, reading forums, but to generalize a population based on those who hold forth upon a topic which interests them is not, I think, going to be accurate.

Speaking for myself, and only for myself, I am a fairly high function(that means that I do not wear and anorak and hang out at the train station with a clipboard)Aspy.

and I f-----g hate recumbents.

thing is, I have no real idea if we can smell our own or not outside of the comic book/star treck/Sci Fi convention.

So my advice is, unless you get a grant to study this(in which case I really want to know about the results)it may be best to just drop it. Otherwise some dark night you may be made to dissapear by a bunch of shadowy figures who make no eye contact and use strange vocal tones. Wearing anoraks.

I like to watch the wheels go around and around. I didn't develop speech until 4 so according to DSM IV, the criteria in the US, I cannot have Aspergers. I've suspected I have high functioning autism.

So my advice is, unless you get a grant to study this(in which case I really want to know about the results)it may be best to just drop it. Otherwise some dark night you may be made to dissapear by a bunch of shadowy figures who make no eye contact and use strange vocal tones. Wearing anoraks.

:)

As the father of a child that is on the autism spectrum with aspbergers tendencies, I am intrigued by this idea! I guess that the need to focus inward while cycling and the repetitive nature of the sport could be appealing to aspies.

Most of the others that I have ridden with are technology/engineering types. From my experiences with volunteering at a school for autistic children and meeting many of the parents of other kids on the spectrum, I have seen that these types of careers are especially appealing to aspies.

Hmm... I will mention this to an occupational therapist that I know and will see what she thinks.

I meet a few of those criteria, but not enough to be "diagnosed". I ride a recumbent, but that's a recent thing. I am a software developer.... draw your own conclusions. :)

Perhaps I'll set to work making frames for recumbents: Aspergers' Frameworks.

I haven't noticed any trends in that direction, to be honest.

I think people just naturally have a certain desire to be popular and to be like everyone else. But when you get into activities that are somewhat or very unusual, there is a tendency for the participants to be somewhat or very unusual as well. I think this applies to cyclists as a group, particularly serious cyclists. Perhaps more so to recumbent riders, unicyclists, tall-bike riders, etc. But the differences don't seem to be along the lines of the syndrome listed.

As far as I can tell by reading, practically ALL recumbent riders either still ride upright bikes or used to. And perhaps the majority of upright bike riders are either going to quit riding at some age, or switch to recumbents. I assume the syndrome described is not something that onsets with age.

Yeah, I have Asperger's
but that why I'm a Computer Programmer, not necesarially why I'm a cyclist.

I don't see a link between tech industry and biking really... tho with the software companies tending to be in nice neighborhoods I guess there a good chance of people biking. Plus lots of them provide those yellow 'company bikes' for getting around large facilities...

You might be onto something..

I was beginning to believe recumbent owners were primarily Star Wars fans. Simply because most of the ones I see look like Jabba the Hut..

-R

Interesting, my son just turned two a few days ago and we just got back from an eval. We have been aware of him having issues for a while and have been working with OTs, Speech Therapists etc. They just decided to put him in the "Autism Spectrum" category and possibly Aspergers down the road.

Hopefully the positive side to this will be that he enjoys cycling with me. He already likes the trailer and baby seat.

I've never heard of Asperger's Syndrome but I am interested in finding out more (like if there is anything "cool" about having it)...I can personally relate to a lot of the criteria.

You might be onto something..

I was beginning to believe recumbent owners were primarily Star Wars fans. Simply because most of the ones I see look like Jabba the Hut..

-R

Hey!

I've never heard of Asperger's Syndrome but I am interested in finding out more (like if there is anything "cool" about having it)...I can personally relate to a lot of the criteria.

I think the only "cool" thing is that they are generally brilliant, often especially intelligent in one certain area.

(b) superficially perfect expressive language
(c) formal, pedantic language


Reminds me of a poster or two over in P&R. :rolleyes:

You might be onto something..

I was beginning to believe recumbent owners were primarily Star Wars fans. Simply because most of the ones I see look like Jabba the Hut..

-R

Hey! That's why I started cycling! :lol:

I have always wondered what was wrong with me, and now I know. I have a particularly virulent strain called Trekatocitis Meadreous, which causes me to ride only Trek products in concentric circles until I actually crash into myself!

I've never heard of Asperger's Syndrome but I am interested in finding out more (like if there is anything "cool" about having it)...I can personally relate to a lot of the criteria.

Its basically the sterotypical 'geek' disease.
Awkward about socialization.
Overly focused on interests to the point of excluding other things. (helps with becoming really good at technical stuff, since that kind of career already fits this tendency)
OCD-like habits.

Cyclists come from all walks of life and I generally find them to be very socialable. Except for bikeforums, of course!:p

Cycling is addicting and cyclists like to ride their bikes a lot. It is because of the greatness of the sport not the people that are attracted to it.

This is such a silly post I am not sure why I responded to it.

(b) superficially perfect expressive language
(c) formal, pedantic language


Reminds me of a poster or two over in P&R. :rolleyes:

There is at least one poster there with Asperger's--and probably not the person/s you think.

East Hill

I don't have any of these symptoms except repetitive adherence. I don't have any of these symptoms except repetitive adherence. I don't have any of these symptoms except repetitive adherence. I don't have any of these symptoms except repetitive adherence. I don't have any of these symptoms except repetitive adherence. I don't have any of these symptoms except repetitive adherence. I don't have any of these symptoms except repetitive adherence. I don't have any of these symptoms except repetitive adherence. I don't have any of these symptoms except repetitive adherence.

I like to watch the wheels go around and around. I didn't develop speech until 4 so according to DSM IV, the criteria in the US, I cannot have Aspergers. I've suspected I have high functioning autism.

Who doesn't?

Who doesn't?

Neurotypicals?

Personally, I think you're onto something. Reading down that list sounds a lot like the story of my life. Lot of motorcyclists seem to fall into the same category, also.

I also believe that if weren't for bikes, motorized & not, I'd be living under a bridge or in a garage, wondering what the hell was going on.

I don't know if you're right or not, but fwiw, I've been informally diagnosed with asperger's. I was hyperlexic as a kid, and I've long been both annoying and easily annoyed. Stimmy. Into rote memorization, strange memory quirks (photographic in some cases, no short-term in others), pedantic, prosody issues, reluctant to embrace change (do a study on ppl who use bar-cons and asperger's), narrow, obsessive interests. fun fact: I prefer to wrench on bikes than to buy them.

For those who've posted wanting to know more about ASD in general and asperger's syndrome in patricular, checkout wrongplanet.org
-rob

Can't speak for all cyclists, but the criteria don't apply to those of us who are just anti-social and grouchy.

edit: using "anti-social" in the layman's sense of simply usually preferring to not have other people around.

Hey I like bar cons best of all. also downtube shifters and thumbys. long as its friction.

I just realized, is this why I am the only person I know who really likes to work on sturmy archer hubs?

All these symptoms sound crippling, but the fact is most people go a long time without being diagnosed. everyone just thinks you are anti social and grouchy.

seriously, if Dan Ackroyd can go through life with it...

others that have been diagnosed posthumously are Thomas Jefferson, and Carl Sagan.

ever eat meat? Google DR Temple Grandin.

I am also a LEFTY:thumb:

I don't know about Asperger's but some cagers sure bring out the Tourette's in me. :twitchy:

First off I'm no psychiatrist, but isn't Aspergers a form of autism? That may have been said earlier but I do think this is an interesting topic. I also think that people on the forums just try to be "hard-ass, know-it-all, I'm superior" individuals.. and of course this is not all people.. just episodes I've noticed from cyclists... Interesting thought though...

Asperger's Syndrome falls under the spectrum of Autism and while I worked in the rehabilitation field I dealt primarily with individuals with autism and specifically with a small group of adults with AS.

A.S. is is much more common than one would think and many individuals with mild A.S. lead relatively normal lives, work regular jobs, and have satisfying relationships with others.

At the other end of the scale A.S. can be very debilitating and prevent individuals from developing meaningful relationships, make gainful employment nearly impossible, may cause depression and lead to substance abuse / addiction problems.

A person with A.S. is no more likely to be a genius than you or I although the fields that people with A.S. are drawn to to and often excel at are the sciences like math, engineering, physics, computer related fields, etc.

It has been said by many with A.S. that Bill Gates is one of their own and many of his behaviours and personality traits are compatible with a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome.

^^^Thanks for the definition. +1

My son has Asperger's. I have never been evaluated, but I think I am not so far away from that end of the spectrum. And yes, I do think that there are some aspects of cycling that could appeal to an Aspergery person.

jim

p.s., Riding a bent is a whole separate issue. Those people are just sick.

I live in a van, down by the river!


Brian

I find it peculiar that "formal, pedantic language" is a sign of a speech and language problem...

If anything, I would think it to be totally opposite.

I think I had an Aspberger for lunch at Wendy's yesterday . . .

Probably fit or on the border with most of the items listed. I, too, have a background in software development. I've had my communication style professionally analyzed (whatever that means) and have been advised that I've adapted a lot of my behavior to fit the needs of society. I suspect this is similar. I override my "instincts" to fit societal requirements. Now that I think about it, isn't this what society is all about anyway?

The August, 2008 Journal of Psychiatry has a very interesting article on called Asperger's: Diagnosis and Treatment.

An interesting finding was that a co-morbid condition that occurs is 40% Asperger's of cases is depression.

I was diagnosed with dysgraphia as a kid, and my daughter has PDD-NOS, but I don't think that either is related to my cycling personally. I chose cycling as an exercise form because it's something I can do on my own time, I don't have to arrange or share equipment, I don't have to go anywhere to do it, etc. I just find I have a few hours to kill and jump on the bike.

I'd generally agree with the O.P. A.S. folks and other folks living in the big tent called autism are often attacted to cycling. It's really a good thing however. Cycling, as a form of exercise, helps fight depression, and that's very important if your suffering from autism.

Cyclists also have a shared experance, a shared lingo. For many A.S people this is pure gold-- it's true believers you can talk with!

I really hope nobody's offended by this, but... in the past I've made casual observations that there seems to be a higher-than-average percentage of left-handed people in the scientific community where I work currently, and a higher-than-average percentage of dyslexic people in the Art School where I worked before. And now, having spent some time in the company of other cyclists, and watching the goings-on in some cycling forums, I'm wondering if there's an unusually high percentage of individuals with Asperger's Syndrome in the cycling community. Perhaps the recumbent cycling community specifically?

Before you all spill your beer and start spewing vitriol and venom, have a look though the following list of criteria for diagnosis, and see if any bells start ringing. I can think of a few people who tick most of the boxes, all cyclists, but i think in my life I've only ever come across one obvious case outside of the cycling community.


GILLBERG'S CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER

1.Severe impairment in reciprocal social interaction
(at least two of the following)
(a) inability to interact with peers
(b) lack of desire to interact with peers
(c) lack of appreciation of social cues
(d) socially and emotionally inappropriate behavior

2.All-absorbing narrow interest
(at least one of the following)
(a) exclusion of other activities
(b) repetitive adherence
(c) more rote than meaning

3.Imposition of routines and interests
(at least one of the following)
(a) on self, in aspects of life
(b) on others

4.Speech and language problems
(at least three of the following)
(a) delayed development
(b) superficially perfect expressive language
(c) formal, pedantic language
(d) odd prosody, peculiar voice characteristics
(e) impairment of comprehension including misinterpretations of literal/implied meanings

5.Non-verbal communication problems
(at least one of the following)
(a) limited use of gestures
(b) clumsy/gauche body language
(c) limited facial expression
(d) inappropriate expression
(e) peculiar, stiff gaze

6.Motor clumsiness: poor performance on neurodevelopmental examination

(All six criteria must be met for confirmation of diagnosis.)

Sounds like most of the people posting in forums on the internet.

Sounds like most of the people posting in forums on the internet.
Yep. Enough that "self-diagnosed Asperger's" has become a phrase that means you can put its poster on ignore.

I can't stand labels ... and bike geeks.

Cyclists on the other hand, seem to include a very wide range of personalities. Jut going on a group ride proves that. All over the map.

and I f-----g hate recumbents.

Hate? Isn't "hate" a rather strong word to describe a style of vehicle?

I prefer my own company, usually. I am impatient with other people.

I have a formal diagnosis of AS, and I'm socially awkward. I don't worry too much about it, though. After 48 years or so, you kind of get used to it.
A specialist, yes, in art, illustration, and other reading type pursuits.
Clumsy? Yes, except when I'm riding. Seems to me there are people from all social levels who have bikes, and the type of riding and the type of bike that fits their personality the best.

Hate? Isn't "hate" a rather strong word to describe a style of vehicle?

Yes it is. I should have said that I strongly dislike riding recumbents. I may in fact someday have to learn to ride them, when the wedgie bikes get uncomfortable. I hope to have about 25-30 more years before I worry about that though.

my reactionary response was due to the thought that I may have to embrace riding around while waving my feet in the air, wearing gym shorts and maintaining a goatee, all because of my wiring being a bit, shall we say, Lucas like.
It was in fact a joke, I just never know which emoticons are appropriate.:lol:

I have a formal diagnosis of AS, and I'm socially awkward. I don't worry too much about it, though. After 48 years or so, you kind of get used to it.

The problem with Aspergers is that the criterion apply to most people, at least most men, sometimes.

There is a theory that Sherlock Holmes may have had Aspergers. Conan Doyle was a medical doctor, remember, and although Aspergers was not formally identified as such at the time, he may have had patients who were 'like that.'

I recently read an interesting autobiography of a man who has AS.

Look me in the Eye:My Life with Asperger's by John Elder Robinson.

http://tinyurl.com/554rgq


He is a genius in some areas of his life (electrical work, restoring cars) and is a very wealthy man because of this. But his life has been a struggle socially.

I have a friend a ride with that I'm sure has AS. He is socially challenged...doesn't make eye contact or use gestures when speaking. He is also a genius when it comes to mechanical things...building motorcycles etc.

I have one of those six traits. No wonder I have such problems in life.

Actually, I am disabled by a neurological disease and it is hartening to know that there are lots of amateurs who have no trouble diagnosing it; because the professionals I have seen all agree, "You have a neurological problem, but I do not have a clue what it is or what is causing it".

I am especially grateful that they can make mass diagnosis of groups of people based upon their leasure time interests. It is also interesting that they can do it on lists like this where you have people who just like to ride bicycles, people who only are interested in them as machinery, people who think they are the solution to the worlds energy problems, and some like me who are fasinated that a something could endure with no major design change for more than a century and still be considered useful.

Actually, I frequent these forums because I like the dirty pictures.