General Cycling Discussion - Motorist and Harrassment.

Do you guys and gals experience harrassment alot from motorist? Two guys in a car this morning threw a beer bottle at me and I didnt say a word to them. They stopped a short way up the road and said "What did you say? " They were Cussing alot. I didnt say a word. They were out looking for trouble. But I held back and said nothing. Good thing they didnt come after me. Things could have gotten ugly.

THis is not unusual..We have to be prepared for the worst. Can we always have our emotions in check. I probaby have witnessed harrassment that is over the top about twice a year. Just token harrassment probably once a week.

Stevet04II
Happens more than I hate to admit. I don't know why so many people in the US hate cyclists. Then theres the ones that just can't drive and pass real close. Still most of my rides are trouble free. I think you handled your situation the best way you could. Some people just look for trouble and a cyclist in the middle of nowhere is a easy target. Flipping the bird only leads to more trouble even for Lance Armstrong:

Web posted Saturday, February 13, 1999
5:46 a.m. CT

Pickup driver gets 10 years for trying to run down cyclists


The Associated Press

AUSTIN (AP) - The driver of a pickup truck convicted of trying to run down world bicycle racing champion Lance Armstrong and another rider has been sentenced to 10 years in prison and a year in county jail.

Carl Michael Carter II, 37, was sentenced Thursday following a day of testimony in which jurors heard how he has had an unpredictable and often violent temper that he unleashed on his previous wives, his children and most recently, two strangers biking on a country road.

A judge will decide Feb. 18 whether the sentences will be served one after the other or at the same time.

Carter was convicted of felony aggravated assault on Armstrong, for which he was given the 10-year sentence, and misdemeanor deadly conduct against cyclist David Averill, for which he was given the one-year sentence.

Armstrong and Averill testified that they were riding side by side on a road in western Travis County on March 31, 1998, when Carter's pickup truck sped by within inches of Averill's shoulder.

The cyclists made an obscene gesture at Carter, whose pickup then screeched to a halt in the middle of the road, according to their testimony. Carter and the cyclists got into an argument, which they said led to Carter speeding off, making a U-turn and driving at them.

Averill rode up a driveway. Armstrong steered his bike into a ditch, flipping end over end and landing on his back. A telephone repairman who witnessed the incident testified that he believed Carter would run over the bicyclist.
http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/021399/tex_LD0612.001.shtml

Do you guys and gals experience harrassment alot from motorist? Two guys in a car this morning threw a beer bottle at me and I didnt say a word to them. They stopped a short way up the road and said "What did you say? " They were Cussing alot. I didnt say a word. They were out looking for trouble. But I held back and said nothing. Good thing they didnt come after me. Things could have gotten ugly.

I get a lot of harrassment but nothing that serious yet. Sounds to me like you did a good job. Drikin beers on a Sunday Morning geeze. They probably were packin heat too!

I am trying this year to keep my head straight in these situations. They probably stopped b/c it pisses them off even more b/c you did'nt show any angry response. Will you report this too the police? did ya get the licence number and make of truck etcc...

btw. yesteday I was on a big group ride and my frien drops like a stone into the valley way ahead of all of us and this guy almost kills him by pulling rite out. By the time a cought up to him the guy is pulling up along side of him. I'm thikin utoh whats going on anyway the guy just wanted to appologise! He said hes an avid cyclist too but sincerly f$-ed up and just did not see him...

You handled the situation in probably the safest way possible.

Luckily, nothing like that so far for me. I do occasionally have logging trucks pass me closely and hit their jake brakes. That compression-braking rattle of the giant diesel so close certainly gets the adrenalin pumping. No fingers though.

Do you guys and gals experience harrassment alot from motorist? Two guys in a car this morning threw a beer bottle at me and I didnt say a word to them. They stopped a short way up the road and said "What did you say? " They were Cussing alot. I didnt say a word. They were out looking for trouble. But I held back and said nothing. Good thing they didnt come after me. Things could have gotten ugly.

Congratulations on your handling of the situation. You definitely saved yourself a lot of trouble. People like this are just looking for a fight, by not responding you basically gave them nothing.

I get honks/verbal abuse/the bird on virtually a daily basis -- more often when I wear a red jersey (why do rednecks have such a problem with this?). To be honest I just treat that sort of behaviour with the contempt it deserves -- I don't see it as worthy of chewing up my precious time, I say let the drivers give themselves high blood pressure and all the complications that go with it. Having said that, the instant somebody throws anything at me (it's happened before and probably will again), I take down their number and go straight to the cops.

Carter was convicted of felony aggravated assault on Armstrong, for which he was given the 10-year sentence, and misdemeanor deadly conduct against cyclist David Averill, for which he was given the one-year sentence.


Interesting that he gets 10 years for threatening Lance Armstrong and one year for threatening David Averill. Just how did they come up with different offences in this judgement? I wonder what the sentence would have been had Lance Armstrong not been a TdF winner.

I get honks/verbal abuse/the bird on virtually a daily basis -- more often when I wear a red jersey (why do rednecks have such a problem with this?).

You mean you don't know? You've seen images of bullfighters waving a red scarf haven't you? ;)

Do you guys and gals experience harrassment alot from motorist? Two guys in a car this morning threw a beer bottle at me and I didnt say a word to them. They stopped a short way up the road and said "What did you say? " They were Cussing alot. I didnt say a word. They were out looking for trouble. But I held back and said nothing. Good thing they didnt come after me. Things could have gotten ugly.

That scenario is pretty rare where I ride (in mostly rural northern California), but it does happen from time to time. I'm fairly assertive about my rights on the road, which seems to help in most situations...but, not always.

This sort of situation is one reason I always carry pepper spray in my right jersey pocket. I've only had to use it on dogs so far, but just having it provides a bit of comfort in case of a confrontation with some gap-toothed Bubba.

Interesting that he gets 10 years for threatening Lance Armstrong and one year for threatening David Averill. Just how did they come up with different offences in this judgement? I wonder what the sentence would have been had Lance Armstrong not been a TdF winner.

"Armstrong steered his bike into a ditch, flipping end over end and landing on his back."
I'm guessing that probably had a lot to do with it PLUS the fact that he's won the TdF numerous times.

Had that been me, that would've easily been "careless driving, 1 month probation."

I've been lucky. The worst - a cigarette butt flicked in my direction. The best, an elderly lady saying good morning to me and may God bless.

Interesting that he gets 10 years for threatening Lance Armstrong and one year for threatening David Averill. Just how did they come up with different offences in this judgement? I wonder what the sentence would have been had Lance Armstrong not been a TdF winner.

Actually this happened before Lance had won a Tour. The original story I read said that Lance was the one that flipped off Carl Michael Carter II and was the one that argued with him. Lance was the one he was trying to run over. Armstrong can be a little cocky at times and this incident could have changed Tour history as we know it.

Yup, this sort of thing does happen, but I applaud you for ignoring the fools. I've had bottles/cans thrown @ me; been screamed @ coutless times, and been hit from behind once. I haven't always been as nice as you, but I am trying!

Good luck out there!

I've found that nothing knocks those idiots off their stride better than a big friendly wave and grin. Acting like you are best of friends embarasses them to death. They are out of there quicker than you can give them anouther friendly wave good bye.

I think maybe women riding alone get less harassment, that is the really abusive violent kind. Mostly I get "get on the bike path!" or angry honks. But I think it's a macho thing- lunkhead drivers who see male cyclists in tights/shorts as 'less macho'. One guy I know was deliberately run into by some moron in a truck who had just come out of a bar!

HOwever, sometimes people yell NICE things: Allez allez! You go girl! Hey- I have a bike, wanna go on a ride sometime? Go go go! Nice bike! etc. And sometimes I get waves, thumbs up, nods and approving looks.

I usually have one or two major incidents per year and hundreds of minor ones. Yesterday's ride (Saturday) was a rare no incident day; the perfect ride.

Congratulations on keeping your cool. I'm working on keeping my finger down, but it ain't easy.

HOwever, sometimes people yell NICE things: Allez allez! You go girl! Hey- I have a bike, wanna go on a ride sometime? Go go go! Nice bike! etc. And sometimes I get waves, thumbs up, nods and approving looks.

That would be when I'm driving by. I don't know if I should continue doing it since sometimes it startles the cyclist. Maybe I should just wave?

I've found that nothing knocks those idiots off their stride better than a big friendly wave and grin. Acting like you are best of friends embarrasses them to death.
Here Here. That's my favorite technique too.

Actually this happened before Lance had won a Tour. The original story I read said that Lance was the one that flipped off Carl Michael Carter II and was the one that argued with him. Lance was the one he was trying to run over. Armstrong can be a little cocky at times and this incident could have changed Tour history as we know it.

Perhaps, however I understand Lance had a high profile even before winning the tour (wasn't he world champion in 1993 or something?). The point is still the same -- what if it had not been a high-profile athlete? What if it had been you or I in that situation? Would the sentence have still been 10 years? Maybe I'm cynical, but I very much doubt it.

My favorite technique is to look at their license plate, and then hold my finger to my ear and recite it as if I'm talking on a hands-free phone. Thinking they're being reported on-the-spot has a profound impact on their conduct.

On Sunday I went for a long ride to the In-Laws and had two motorist interactions. The first, as I was starting from a redlight a punk in the passenger seat of a Mustang emptied his Big Gulp in my direction. A little splatter but most of the Coke seemed to end up on the back of the car. Normally, I'd be pissed, but for some reason I was calm and was just wondering to myself, what's that guy's deal?

About 10 miles up the road, I wasn't paying attention and ran over some heavy gauge wire like a shirt hanger and it clanged around in my back wheel. I hopped off to make sure I hadn't broken a spoke. Turned out that it bent my derailleur cage but still rideable. As I stood on the shoulder, a nice woman in a BMW convertible stopped to ask if I was okay.

I figure that the two incidents cancel each other out. (And counters my bias about BMW drivers.)

On Sunday I went for a long ride to the In-Laws and had two motorist interactions. The first, as I was starting from a redlight a punk in the passenger seat of a Mustang emptied his Big Gulp in my direction. A little splatter but most of the Coke seemed to end up on the back of the car. Normally, I'd be pissed, but for some reason I was calm and was just wondering to myself, what's that guy's deal?

About 10 miles up the road, I wasn't paying attention and ran over some heavy gauge wire like a shirt hanger and it clanged around in my back wheel. I hopped off to make sure I hadn't broken a spoke. Turned out that it bent my derailleur cage but still rideable. As I stood on the shoulder, a nice woman in a BMW convertible stopped to ask if I was okay.

I figure that the two incidents cancel each other out. (And counters my bias about BMW drivers.)
The only logical explanation is that she was borrowing the beemer.

My favorite technique is to look at their license plate, and then hold my finger to my ear and recite it as if I'm talking on a hands-free phone. Thinking they're being reported on-the-spot has a profound impact on their conduct.

I was out for a ride with a couple of people that I barely knew, and we were cut up badly by a car in the town where I live. The two lads in the car, then stopped and swore at us, and threatened to run us off the road next time they saw us. The larger of the two riders then asked them if they knew who he was. The obvious answer was a load of swearing, and "No".
"Fair enough"He said, "Tomorrow morning you will both present yourselves at The police station, and you will ask for sergeant Harris." For some reason the pair shut up and "Yes Sir, No Sir" became their response.
After the pair of them drove off, I told the rider that I did not realise he was a policeman, "I'm not he said, "but these two are now going to be Sh&%>ing themselves till tomorrow morning" Plus the fact he did have another choice in the action he could have taken, as he had recently come out of the navy, and was a PT instructor, specialising in Unarmed combat training, and he was about to lose his rag.

I carry a cell phone and don't hesitate to use it. I also look person in eye , give a crazy laugh, act confident, set bike on ground and say ' All-right - It will probably violate my parole but buddy- it will be worth it just to see you bleed.' then start walking towards him. Worked for me 2 times. You must not, I repeat not, let the person sense that you are not serious nor use profanity.

I also look person in eye , give a crazy laugh, act confident, set bike on ground and say ' All-right - It will probably violate my parole but buddy- it will be worth it just to see you bleed.' then start walking towards him. Worked for me 2 times. You must not, I repeat not, let the person sense that you are not serious nor use profanity.
You are a little braver than me. I'm always afraid the might be 6ft 7 and 300 lbs or packing heat!

Do you guys and gals experience harrassment alot from motorist? Two guys in a car this morning threw a beer bottle at me and I didnt say a word to them. They stopped a short way up the road and said "What did you say? " They were Cussing alot. I didnt say a word. They were out looking for trouble. But I held back and said nothing. Good thing they didnt come after me. Things could have gotten ugly.

First of all I have never had this happen. However I have had some situtations with people in cars that made me nervous. In my opinion you have to first assess the sitation. You were one man on a bike. They were 2 drunks in a car. Unless you are packing heat, you are in trouble if there is any altracation. So you need to start thinking defensively. How do I get away from this?

First of all I would look for a place to go where there vehicle couldn't. A bike is much narrower than a car and sometimes there is a place for you to lose them. Also the first thing I would do is grab the cellphone. This changes the balance back into your favor a bit. Without it, they have all of the power. Now if they think you have called the authorities they have to start thinking about there own well being instead of just indangering yours. So I have never ridden 1 mile without my cellphone on my hip.

My theory is that, "maybe you are going to take me out but I'm taking you with me." Also I would expect that the majority of people like this already have some sort of problem with the law, be it warrants etc. The last thing they want to end their Saturday night drinking spree is to be locked up. The chance that will happen jumps greatly to them when you have the phone to your ear.

Lastly, we all hate to pay taxes but one of the big things we pay for is law enforcement. Get your money's worth and call the cops. I realize that not everyone has a cellphone but to me it would be one of the last things I would be without in biking.

The point is still the same -- what if it had not been a high-profile athlete? What if it had been you or I in that situation? Would the sentence have still been 10 years? Maybe I'm cynical, but I very much doubt it.

Mr Carter raped his ex-wife and beat his child and was waiting trial on those charges. There were witnesses that said he would have run over Lance. Yep, I think under the same cicumstances the same outcome would be the same for you and me. But out riding solo and no witness, we would be deadmeat!

I think a cellphone is a great item to carry but I wouldn't count on a cop to come and save me in the middle of nowhere. I just keep telling myself to not do anything to escalate the situation. Most times the car is going by too fast to even get a license plate number. All confrontations I've had was because I flipped the bird after they did something stupid.

maybe we all need steel quick release seatposts...you know...a little selfprotection every now and then, right? :D

While living in the Dallas area sometime ago I had a near miss with a couple of drunks. They drove by me (in a four lane rd) and one took a swing at me with a bottle yelling get off the road (I guess me and my bike was hogging up one too many lanes for them). Like most people I gave them the bird and tires screeched to a stop but I guess they couldn't wait for me to catch up with them because they got back in their pickup and took off.

That has been my only harassment to me that I could think of. I do remember there was an altercation with a driver and several cyclists (rear ended one of the cyclist) at one of the local biking events (again in the Dallas area, or was it Waxahachie). The police took care of the problem pronto as there were plenty of witnesses.

Yep I pack heat. Thats another reason I had to keep my cool.

And Nope I dont wear tights. Sweats only.

maybe we all need steel quick release seatposts...you know...a little selfprotection every now and then, right? :D
Frame pumps will at least look scary. They work good on dogs. Also Big U locks :D

It is a strange pheneomenon. I really don't get it? I mean these red necks they have there hobbies too wether it be fishing, watching nascar, beer drinkin I don't care I like to ride a bike what the hell is wrong with that? You know, well I'm preachin to the choir here but what is it? Is it that they actually have to slow down and get around you disturbing there driving speed? Is it that they think your some commie ultra left wing liberal farie thats commin to take there guns? What?

I mean why don't these flag waving freedom fry eatin inbred red necks see Lance 5 time winner of the Tour De (enemy of the US)France as a better man then Dale?

LOL I hope I don't offend anyone but really I don't get. btw if you saw me driving my old pick up truck down the road that leads to my house you'd swear I was a red neck.

This is probably the only time you can say that you were a better cyclist than Lance Armstrong.

You kept your cool. Lance escalated.
You stayed safe. Lance almost lost his life.

I mean why don't these flag waving freedom fry eatin inbred red necks see Lance 5 time winner of the Tour De (enemy of the US)France as a better man then Dale?

LOL I hope I don't offend anyone but really I don't get. btw if you saw me driving my old pick up truck down the road that leads to my house you'd swear I was a red neck.


AMEN

Well said my friend! :)

happens probably once per long ride (2 hours)...

sometimes i'll get (unintelligible) profanity shouted at me while they whizz hence (hence not being able to hear)...

but most of the time its just punk ass kids passing wayyyyyy too close


the funny thing is, when i ride on the "ghetto" part of town it never happens... only in the more suburban area with 18 year olds in daddy's pick-up truck

You are a little braver than me. I'm always afraid the might be 6ft 7 and 300 lbs or packing heat!

Nope, not braver - Stupider is probably a better word (but I'm brave enough to admit it). I admit I have trouble controlling my temper when this happens, A hard look into the face from me to them usually and I repeat usually does it for me. Drunks are a different rule, the 2 mentioned were in local rurual area, but clearly won't drunk, high on drugs, or etc. Just looking for a fight. The message is to avoid confrontation if at all possile, BUT if it looks bad, be the badder. I've found that in the rurual areas around here some folks understand confrontation and 'niceness/shyness/avoidance' is a weakness. I've gotten around much better if I make sure they know - try to hurt me & I guarentee you that you WILL be hurt also.
Take care all. RB

happens probably once per long ride (2 hours)...

sometimes i'll get (unintelligible) profanity shouted at me while they whizz hence (hence not being able to hear)...

but most of the time its just punk ass kids passing wayyyyyy too close


the funny thing is, when i ride on the "ghetto" part of town it never happens... only in the more suburban area with 18 year olds in daddy's pick-up truck

That is so true. Most of the near-misses I've had are with stupid teenage boys driving the family SUV. They are by far the most dangerous- even worse than cellphone talking moms because they go so much faster.