Bicycle Mechanics - aluminium frame failures-- myth or fact?

I keep reading that aluminium has no fatigue limit and that bicycle frames made from it will fail within quite short periods of time. Is this true or just a myth. I don´t seem to remember reading any posts where someone with a decent aluminium frame has actually reported a real-life case of frame failure due to metal fatigue.

Can anyone out there report real life cases of aluminium frame failures caused by metal fatigue. I don´t mean resulting from crash damage or botched welds. If so what were the circumstances - age of the bike etc.

I have a couple of aluminium frame bikes and it would be nice to have some evidence that frame replacement is necessary before I junk the frames in a couple of years.

I'm sure it's probably happened but I'm equally sure it's happened with other frame materials too. To be honest, despite the fact that I'm not a big fan of Al frames, I have yet to see one fail during the normal life of a frame. The only times I've actually seen an Al frame fail was on MTBs that have been subjected to jumps and hucking.

BTW, here's a pretty good webpage that compares various metals used in bike frames (http://www.reynoldsusa.com/tubing/tubing.html).

I have a Trek 7000 frame that's like 9 or 10 years old. I've ridden it hard the last 6 months or so, (knock on wood) so far it's a very strong frame. No complaints.

My Klein Quantum frame's hanger snapped, NOT from a crash, but my guess is fatigue. It was about 5 years old when it happened, so I'm not surprised.

I keep reading that aluminium has no fatigue limit and that bicycle frames made from it will fail within quite short periods of time. Is this true or just a myth. I don´t seem to remember reading any posts where someone with a decent aluminium frame has actually reported a real-life case of frame failure due to metal fatigue.

Can anyone out there report real life cases of aluminium frame failures caused by metal fatigue. I don´t mean resulting from crash damage or botched welds. If so what were the circumstances - age of the bike etc.

I have a couple of aluminium frame bikes and it would be nice to have some evidence that frame replacement is necessary before I junk the frames in a couple of years.

I've never had a bike frame that didn't last longer than I wanted it to. I always develope a yen for something new long before the old one gives out. I kind of think that feeling is the real basis for the aluminum fatigue limit stories because, years ago, I used to hear similar tales of steel frames losing their rigidity after a couple of years.

Very few fail,most dont so i would worry about other things. Also a difference in frame life from racing to just riding.

I have seen quite a few frame failures. Some just from age/wear, some from crashing. The only spectacular failures I have seen were on two alluminum frames, A Giant, and a Cannondale. They both snapped off the headtube. I also caught on video tape a Ti frame snapping a headtube of during a race. There have been lots of mundane failures, just a crack propogating. Just this past friday I took a steel Performance bike out on a test ride and when I went off the curb the down tube snapped in two. To be honest I would not have noticed it(It just made it a little more springy and it had a cheap fork) except it suddenly shifted front and back when the frame spread.

So I would say, get what you like,treat it like you want, and don't worry about it to much. Worrying about a frame break, is like worring about getting struck by lightening. Just check the frame over every now and then.

I've been riding aluminum since 1987 and the only frame failure I had was an older trek frame that used the bonding of tubes with some kind of glue at the bottom bracket and head tube.

The bond on the bottom bracket came apart during a downhill run.

All welded aluminum frames I've owned have been bullet proof, especially the Cannondales. And I've ridden C'dales for the past tem years except one Specialized Epic I now own.

Its true that Al is about 1/3 the strength of steel. It is also about 1/3 the density. Bike designers use more volume of Al, using thicker-walleed tubing. They also use fatter diameter tubing to build a stiff structure. Al will fail if you keep bending it, so stiff structures are used to prevent fatigue.
In practice a good Al frame will last as well as any good frame. Most failures are due to faults in manufacturing, leaving stress-raisers which concentrate stress, or giving heat-treatment during welding/brazing.
The one big weakness of Al is at the derailleur hanger. These do get mangled up more easily than steel, and cannot be bent back in shape. Even replaceable hangers have their drawbacks; the attatchent point can get bent, and you have to buy the replacement part many years after buying the frame. Will you find one that fits?

is carbon as succeptable?

According to Grant Petersen of Rivendell, a major manufacturer recently had to recall some aluminum bikes because of 2 frame failures. One buckled while a customer was test riding and the other buckled while a customer was doing a track stand on the shop floor.

I don't know which company but my guess is probably Cannondale or Specialized. Both companies, especially C-dale, like to push the limits of Aluminum.

I believe it's more internet myth than anything. The percentage is so low that there's a lot of repetetive "I know a guy who.." goes on.

the concern about Al-alloyed frames arises from that it has lower tensile strength and also lower yield strength than Fe-C-based alloys. Al alloys are more prone to breaking without yielding than are Fe-C alloys. theoretically, if you ride hard enough, the frame will fail, though i have never known anybody whose Al frame has failed from normal use.

I keep reading that aluminium has no fatigue limit and that bicycle frames made from it will fail within quite short periods of time. Is this true or just a myth. Myth,folklore,BS:WHATEVER!! Engineers, and metalurgists know how aluminum fails and design around it. Several 'lifetimes' worth, whatever constitutes a lifetime.

I had a friends brothers cousins girfriend that worked with a guy that knew somebody whos dog saw bigfoot once.

OK. They obviously are not exploding under riders on a regular basis. If YOUR frame failed, post up. Let's see how many there really are. Frames of any material can fail due to a myriad of reasons. Most are probably due to reasons other than material fatigue. My 7 year old Al GT MTB is holding up just fine. I have been in the air more than a few times at over, I'm ashamed to say, 200 lbs and it is fine.

According to Grant Petersen of Rivendell, a major manufacturer recently had to recall some aluminum bikes because of 2 frame failures. One buckled while a customer was test riding and the other buckled while a customer was doing a track stand on the shop floor.

I don't know which company but my guess is probably Cannondale or Specialized. Both companies, especially C-dale, like to push the limits of Aluminum.

This obviously was not a fatigue issue. Sounds like bad welds - really bad welds. This is a workmanship problem, not a metallurgical one.

Al has a limited number of fatigue cycles it can go through, afterwhich the frame can fail. That said the number of cycles is high enough that its very rare for a normal rider to do so. On the other hand, I've heard that racers should replace their frames after 10,000 miles

No myth, it's only a myth to those who own aluminum bikes because they don't want to think about it; kind of like saying your Hyundai is going to break more often than my Lexus...I have insulted your buying decision now your upset. It's common knowledge that AL always has some threshold in fatigue cycles beyond which it will fail. First you have folks right here on this post saying they had failures. There have been many post over the past year on the bicycle.com forum of failures. I have a friend who back in 1986 bought a Vitus AL and it failed about 7 months after buying so his LBS allowed him to move up into a Klien stating that due to his 245lb weight he stressed out the smaller tube Vitus. Over the next 12 years he broke 3 of the Kliens; then someone said Cannondale was better so he bought one and 9 months went by and it broke but it took 8 months to get Cannondale to replace it so he bought a steel Gios in 1999 to ride in while waiting. He got the Cannondale back and less then a year later it broke except this time he threw in the dump! He still rides the Gios today and so far no problems. But he likes steel so much better that he bought a Rivendell for touring last year.

By the way, glue bonded lugged AL frames are actually stronger than welded tubes. The reason the glue bonded lugged frames of days gone past failed was due to the use of the smaller diameter tubing which flexed to much causing the glue to eventially fail-which on welded tubes of the same diameter the failure rate was more than 4 times as much! The reason they stayed with the welded tube was cost.

see for more info: http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/frames1.html

Also a book by: Hayduk, Douglas. Bicycle Metallurgy for the Cyclist. Says this about AL frames: "Aluminum is light and cheap and always large-diameter because, like a presto log or a block of pink popcorn, it doesn’t stand up to repeated flexing. Aluminum has a short fatigue life, so the smarter makers eliminate fatigue-inducing flex by using huge diameter tubes. There are some fine aluminum frames out there—notably, the ones made by Charlie Cunningham and Gary Klein. They at least, have some flesh and blood and brains behind them. But today’s cheap-labor imitations have nothing to offer beyond their function, and if you can warm up to one of them, you can likely warm up to anything. Consider yourself lucky?"

VeloNews last summer (on page 42) had a product guide issued and made some disparging comments about AL framed bikes: "VeloNews dated 6/10/03, page 42. “As anyone familiar with beer cans can tell you, al is softer and less stiff than steel. Al is easy to draw and form into shapes, easy to machine and relatively easy to weld. Its density is about a third of steel and half of ti, so it is not hard to build a light bike with it. It will oxidize, and should be painted, powdered coated or anodized to prevent corrosion, but it does not rust away rapidly. Al has downsides too. Its tensile strength, yield strength and elongation are far less than those of high strength steel and ti alloys. Al is more vulnerable in a crash. Al has no fatigue limit, a property steel possesses, often expressed as a % of its tensile strength. Below this limit, the material can be cycled indefinitely without breaking. This means that al can be less predictable than steel as to when it will fail after long use. Back to our beer can: compare a can of beer to a metal can of olives and it’s apparent that he al container has much less stiffness than a steel can of similar thickness and diameter. Yet many al bikes feel stiff. Why? It’s because al’s density is so low; tubes can be made large and thick for stiffness and light weight. Al can be alloyed with other elements to enhance its properties. Scandium for instance is an element that can help make a very strong al alloy."

I could go on but why?

This whole issue of AL being used to construct bike came about in the early 80's when cycle manufactures where losing money on bike frames because of all the hand work it took to build a bike. So they found that with AL they can have mass production robotic machines weld the tubes saving labor cost; PLUS they can use recycled AL and save on material cost. The average AL frame made in Asian plants cost $45 (a little bet less in China and little bit more in Thailand)...that includes labor and material! Why do you think Nike builds shoes in China? So they can get the shoe for $5 and sell it to you for $120, the reason: PROFIT! And all that profit does not have to pay for insurance or lawyers for workers here in the States. No wonder 90% of the crap in WalMart is now made in China.

This whole issue of AL being used to construct bike came about in the early 80's when cycle manufactures where losing money on bike frames because of all the hand work it took to build a bike. So they found that with AL they can have mass production robotic machines weld the tubes saving labor cost; PLUS they can use recycled AL and save on material cost. The average AL frame made in Asian plants cost $45 (a little bet less in China and little bit more in Thailand)...that includes labor and material! Why do you think Nike builds shoes in China? So they can get the shoe for $5 and sell it to you for $120, the reason: PROFIT! And all that profit does not have to pay for insurance or lawyers for workers here in the States. No wonder 90% of the crap in WalMart is now made in China.

And steel can't be welded robotically? So those cheap xmart steel bikes are all welded up by hand?

I'm just gald that airplanes are not made from that unpredictable aluminum stuff.

My two favorite bikes are AL. One, is ALTEC2 and after 4 years and about 10,000 kms is as stiff as the day I bought it. Ditto my Ishiwata tubing double butted CrMo commute bike with 15,000 kms in the same period.

But I only weigh 66 kgs. A friend who a big powerful sprinter turned his Pinarello Paris into a wet noodle in 3 years. You could see the whole frame flex just by pulling on the handlebars.

These are just datapoints. Take the info as you will...

Ive seen a few cracked and failed aluminium frames but the only ones I've personally broken or cracked have been made of steel..
True Temper's finest too boot..

I suspect aircraft may be built of a tad higher grade aluminium and hopefully tighter quality control, but they still crack and suffer fatigue problems as well.(hopefully not while I'm in one:) )

I suspect aircraft may be built of a tad higher grade aluminium and hopefully tighter quality control, but they still crack and suffer fatigue problems as well.(hopefully not while I'm in one:) )

Yes, aircraft do suffer from fatigue. Yet, designers can still predict the performance of aluminum and build a safe aircraft.

All materials will fail,sooner or later.Wow,i'm pretty smart.

I suspect aircraft may be built of a tad higher grade aluminium and hopefully tighter quality control, but they still crack and suffer fatigue problems as well.(hopefully not while I'm in one:) )

Yes and no. New materials are appearing all the time in the aerospace world but the materials used in bikes today are actually borne out of that world. Most high quality bicycles use aerospace grade versions of their respective material (steel, aluminum, carbon fiber, titanium). The quality control can of course vary but respective bike builders have as good a quality control as Boeing. Airframes do suffer cracks and fatigue of the course of their lifetime. Sometimes these can be repaired but there are plenty of aircraft that were placed in a "degraded status" with reduced mission responsibilities due to airframe age. One example of this was the C-141 which had its mission profile reduced when the majority of the fleet began showing cracks along the dorsal spine... yet the Air Force was still flying them. Careful inspection of your frame is essential to safety. Wash your bike, go over your frame and spot problems early. All the macho mountain bikers who brag about never washing their bikes are just being foolhardy.

As anyone familiar with beer cans can tell you, al is softer and less stiff than steel.

Well, it is nice to know from the very first sentence that this writer does not know what he is talking about. AL less stiff than steel - not in this universe. Comparing a beer can to a steel can is crazy. The thickness is about ten times different.

Don't believe everything you read.

It is true that AL can only be cycled a certain amount of times. The magic here is, what constitutes a cycle? A properly designed frame will not be clicking off a cycle with every pedal stroke like people seem to think.

Most high quality bicycles use aerospace grade versions of their respective material (steel, aluminum, carbon fiber, titanium).

most bikes use commercial-grade carbon fiber cloth that is intended for things like sporting goods and automotive aftermarket applications.
There is a seperate aerospace grade of carbon fiber for those applications.

The only one I know of that is different is Fondriest, who advertise the use of F1 carbon fiber- of much higher quality than the normal sporting goods grade cloth. I don't know if this is aerospace or not but that is the only one that differs from the majority of CF bikes that I know of.

all the mountain bikes are aluminum... cept for the trek 820... :( whyyyyy?? i've been looking.. and no one uses steel any more.

well.. colnago does.

there are a few steel mountain bikes out there, but the main reason is cost. It is expensive to build a lightweight steel frame, and if people are going to spend a lot of money, most people would rather just get a full suspension (FS) bike. Steel is generally not used for FS bikes becuase you do not need the "magical ride" of steel in a full suspension - you have the suspension to absorb shock, and in a full suspension design, flex is very bad because it means that all the moving parts get worn faster. wow. that was quite a run-on wasn't it?

anyway, back to the original topic, there was a cat 2 racer on this forum a while ago who went by the name Maruzio or something like that. I distictly remember him talking about breaking his frames a lot in the chainstays right behind the BB...

i'm even having a hard time finding steel road bikes. it's allllllll aluminum or carbon now it seems.

The only one I know of that is different is Fondriest, who advertise the use of F1 carbon fiber- of much higher quality than the normal sporting goods grade cloth. I don't know if this is aerospace or not but that is the only one that differs from the majority of CF bikes that I know of.

You're probably right although I do know that Aegis uses aerospace grade carbon fibre.

i'm even having a hard time finding steel road bikes. it's allllllll aluminum or carbon now it seems.

Bianchi and Specialized make several mass market steel bikes. Many (most?) of the Italian racing bike makers (Serotta et al) also make a few steel frames and then there's the whole custom market...

Bianchi and Specialized make several mass market steel bikes. Many (most?) of the Italian racing bike makers (Serotta et al) also make a few steel frames and then there's the whole custom market...

I'm looking at Ritchey and Co-Motion for steel frames. I understand Jamis makes a steel roadbike too don't they?

i liiike bianchi! :) ocleot for me it shall be!

And steel can't be welded robotically? So those cheap xmart steel bikes are all welded up by hand?

I'm just gald that airplanes are not made from that unpredictable aluminum stuff.

First of all cheap steel can be robotically welded-true! But we were not talking about Wallyworld class of bikes.

Second, airliner manufactures stress test their aircraft then tell the airlines companies to keep the air speed not higher than 525 mph or whatever that craft was design for. Ever notice the max speed rating on aircraft? That is not the max speed the engine(s) can push the craft, that is the max rated safe speed for the airframe. They do this because the AL frames will flex too much and result in failure and or the extended use at higher speeds will shorten the life expectancy of the aircraft. Even at that when flown at recommended air speed they are then retired at what ever age the manufacture recommends because of the accumulated effects of stress on the frame could lead to failure and that is usually around 20 years for larger airlines. Plus steel would be too heavy for an aircraft to fly so AL or CF is the only real product to use. Some light weight aircraft such as ultralights and microlights use cromoly for their frames because the lightweightness of the fabric skins on the wings combined with people trying to get the most out of their engines performance and attempting aerobatics have led to a high percentage of AL frames collapsing whereas the cromoly steel frame did not-as often. But in these instances we have a case of pilot stupidity taking the airframes past their intended safe margins.

Then ask yourself why don't they make skyscrapers, or bridges, or springs in cars and trucks-big or small out of AL instead of steel if AL is so great. AL is not bad stuff used within it's design limits and on bikes can be great for lightweight crotch rocket, but AL will not last as long as steel or TI (CF is still questionable); when the last 15 years of AL bikes have been around for another 20 years then we will have more answers.

i'm even having a hard time finding steel road bikes. it's allllllll aluminum or carbon now it seems.

In LBS's your right, you will have a hard time finding good lugged steel bikes because most good steel bikes are hand made by the finest frame builders in the world and due to that the cost becomes higher than what the average person will spend for a bike. But there are plenty of steel welded (no lugs) frames in LBS's you may have to ask. But brazed lug or bonded lug (very rare to find now) construction is still the strongest (howbeit heaviest) way to attach tube to make a frame.

I'm looking at Ritchey and Co-Motion for steel frames. I understand Jamis makes a steel roadbike too don't they?
Cervelo Prodigy,Fuji Roubaix Pro,KHS 800, Masi. The Jamis and the KHS are very nice.

The only structural part of an aircraft still made from steel is the landing gear. The toughest material ever formed into tubing is airmet100, heat-treated steel, designed for carrier-landings. This steel has been formed into bike frames, but it was a passing fad.
The old standby, Reynolds 531 was originally designed for aircraft in the 1930s, to be used a internal bracing.

Second, airliner manufactures stress test their aircraft then tell the airlines companies to keep the air speed not higher than 525 mph or whatever that craft was design for.

I almost always keep my speed below 525mph. :D

I almost always keep my speed below 525mph. :D

almost? :D

I almost always keep my speed below 525mph. :D

Hmmm... that'd be a neat feature for bike computers: a way to set various indicators for V-speeds (Vne, Vno, Vs, etc...). Then again, I'm not sure what my Vne would be but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be staring at my computer's display if I were anywhere near it. Perhaps, an audio cue might work?

I almost always keep my speed below 525mph. :D

Ah ha, now you know why I ride a steel bike so I can go above that speed!

Aluminium does have a fatigue life but in most cases if your not a pro racer or a tourer doing tens of thousands of kilometers a year your not liable to wear out the frame before every thing else is knackered but .............
if you use an a-frame type cycle trainer a lot you can clap out an ali frame in a very short time because your subjecting it to loads it was not designed to withstand and the more hours a session and the more force you apply then the faster it´ll happen .
As a general rule the lighter a component then the shorter it´s working life and this holds true of frames as well ( mind you I´ve seen ex-racing frames from ONCE being sold on and lasting for years after so .............. ) ( ONCE used Giant frames which tended to be amongst the lighter frames in the peloton )

if you use an a-frame type cycle trainer a lot you can clap out an ali frame in a very short time because your subjecting it to loads it was not designed to withstand and the more hours a session and the more force you apply then the faster it´ll happen .
As a general rule the lighter a component then the shorter it´s working life and this holds true of frames as well ( mind you I´ve seen ex-racing frames from ONCE being sold on and lasting for years after so .............. ) ( ONCE used Giant frames which tended to be amongst the lighter frames in the peloton )

I did not know about the A frame trainer thing. My LBS said when I bought my Cyclops Fluid that it would not do what you mentioned, BUT I had heard from other places that what you said is correct-so I guess the debate continues. But my thought process is that if what your saying is correct then that would still apply on the street just not as rapid of a pace.

Your right about the weight issue to; that applies to anything even autos. A lot of drag racing folks use AL parts to reduce rotational weight thus faster rpm spinups but they sacrifice engine life in doing so-but most of them don't care about that they just want to win. Problem is you get this thought process filtering down to street cars except the engine life subject is glaringly missing or hyped away to sell parts. VeloNews also reported the same thing about light weight stuff in their Buyers Guide dated 2003.

I'm just gald that airplanes are not made from that unpredictable aluminum stuff.

See: http://www.nordicgroup.us/bikerec/images/aloha243.jpg

From: http://www.nordicgroup.us/bikerec/

"Invariably, when the aluminum versus steel debate pops up, someone chimes in with an analogy about airplanes. They ask why we're not worried about aluminum airplanes falling out of the sky, but we're worried about aluminum bicycle frames breaking. I'm convinced that buried somewhere in the sales training from Trek, Cannondale, and/or Specialized, there is an FAQ that tells salespeople to use the airplane analogy to address concerns from customers about aluminum framed bicycles.

Like most analogies, it's a poor one. The fact is that we are worried about airplanes falling out of the sky. Recall the 1988 incident in Hawaii where an Aloha Airlines Boeing 737 suffered a structural failure. This was an inter-island plane, which had an abnormally high number of compression/decompression cycles, which fatigued the aluminum skin, causing stress cracks that propagated from rivet locations. Amazingly, only one person was killed (a flight attendant who was sucked out during the decompression). Of course the solution here was not to make airplanes out of steel, it was to increase inspections, and limit the number of stress cycles before an aircraft is taken out of service."

The point was not that aluminum does not fatigue. Aluminum certainly does fatigue. The point was that the properties of aluminum are well known and given a known stress environment, we can design structural components from aluminum that will give predictable performance. The fact that we use aluminum for aircraft is proof that aluminum can be safely used with little fear of an unexpected disaster. The analogy is not a poor analogy.

The art of engineering is to design an item that can perform to a given specification and be constructed for a reasonable cost. There is no questoin that a quality bicycle can be built from aluminum. It can be built from steel, carbon fiber, or titanium as well. Some people seem to believe that just because a given piece of steel has a fatigue limit, all steel bicycles are designed within that limit. There also seems to be a beief that all aluminum frame bicycles are designed to have such short fatigue lives that you are taking your life in your hands just to go around the block. I suspect that neither of these beliefs is true.

For all of the aluminum bikes sold, you'd think there would be a constant complaint on these boards of people who have had their bikes suffer a fatigue failure. I certainly don't read that here. Over on mtbreview you can see all kinds of pictures of failed frames, but these appear to be predominately overstress failures at welds and are almost certainly manufacturing errors or simple abuse failures. On the other hand, in the book, 'A Bike Ride', Anne Mustoe rode her steel bike around the world. When she got about 4/5ths the way around, her steel bike developed a crack in one of the tubes. Whether this was fatigue or material defect is unknown (does it matter?) but the point is that her frame certainly did not go forever without a failure.

Nonetheless, a bike does not need to last forever to be a quality bike. If an aluminum Trek 'only' lasts 10 years, but costs 1/3 the price of a comparable Rivendell that may last a lifetime (or may not) the Trek may be a better buy since few people would need to buy more than 2 replacements anyway before they stop riding. Chances are you would be tired of the old Riv after 30 years anyway. Besides, Trek warrantees the frame for life anyway, so as long as you don't plunge down a cliff when the frame cracks, you shouldn't worry too much about the frame.

i got an old specialized s-works m2... it's and aluminum metal matrix composit... seems to be holding up still... i don't know where it's been but it looks like it's been through a lot, a WHOLE lot.

By the way, it's known as "endurance limit" not fatigue limit.

Dave

My bikes are all steel but I'm always doing searches on how long things last. Cars, bikes, guns, power tools ....

I found a guy who owns a Trek 1420 circa 1991/2 . They have aluminum frames and it's owner puts on 14K/year. His bike had 140K miles on it before he replaced it. My guess is that he or his LBS stripped all the threads from several rebuilding sessions.

I've never met anyone in person that spent that much time on a bike but I guess they are out there. He looked like a 25 year old with grey hair and a grey beard. He was probably in his mid 50's.

According to Grant Petersen of Rivendell, a major manufacturer recently had to recall some aluminum bikes because of 2 frame failures. One buckled while a customer was test riding and the other buckled while a customer was doing a track stand on the shop floor.

I don't know which company but my guess is probably Cannondale or Specialized. Both companies, especially C-dale, like to push the limits of Aluminum.

Probably Cannondale... my friend dented his new R2000 the first day he had it when his heel knicked the top tube getting on. Unbelievable... I mean yeah, its light, but if you so much as look at it crosseyed it will fold in half.