Folding Bikes - Dahon Mu P8 or Xootr Swift?

I currenting own a Miami Citizens, and actually am pretty happy with the ride so far, as at age 62 I am just getting into riding a bike after not riding for over 40 years. I am thinking of upgrading to a better ride, and so far the Dahon MU P8 and the Xooter Swift have my interest. The Swift has really peaked my interest. However, my son thinks that the riding position for me and my kind of slow riding is to "racey", or leaning over to much like a racer. He prefers this position as its nothing for him to ride 40 or 50 miles in a day. But he thinks old pop would not be happy with the riding position. It seems to me that one could raise the handlebars up a few inches and that would change to position to a more upright position.
Am I correct in thinking this, or should I just consider the MU P8 and be done with it?

Thanks
Terry

I haven't ridden the Dahon, but I have a new Xootr Swift and I love it. You'll see a few threads under my name with other reports, etc. It's fast and handy. I do not think that it has a "racy" riding position at all. In fact, it's very upright.

You can get a more upright position on the Swift by asking Xootr to swap-in the longer (12") stem-riser. If that position is still not upright enough for you, you can swap in some (aftermarket) bars that have some rise to them.

The Mu is a nice bike but you will have to be adjusting its hinges fairly frequently. The Swift has no hinge in the main tube, and its (non-folding but quickly removable) stem riser is relatively stubby and has no hinge there to worry about.

Regards
T

I have a relatively aggressive position on my Swift, which is very much a function of seat and handlebar heights. The stock Swift is set up pretty hybrid-like--and if you buy someplace where they'll work with you a little on the initial setup, it can be adjusted this way or that.

I haven't ridden a Mu, so I have no opinion on that. I'm very pleased with my Swift.

Best just to go and do it rather than talk about it. Your body will soon tell you what riding position you want. It is easily changed to almost any reasonable position anyway, and you can always swap out some components. The other thing is that as you get accustomed to riding again the position you prefer will change in line with your increasing bike fitness.

In other words, just buy any decent quality bike that feels ok, and you can change it around if you want to later.

Thanks a lot for your replies. I like what you all have to say, very good advice. I am leaning toward the Swift. I have talked with Steve and he certainly seems helpful and concerned that I buy the right bike. Nice guy.
Thanks again,
Terry

let me add my two cents to counter all the swifty opinions. i have the mu p8 and i'm quite fond of it. i was looking for a bike that i could fold up in a small package (i travel with it in a samsonite hardside case) yet would also furnish a comfortable ride for long mileage. i've ridden it for 30-35 miles at a time quite comfortably (although i am thinking of swapping out the saddle). i'm a roadie so i wanted something that i could ride at a reasonable speed, too, and the mu p8 has not disappointed. you can adjust the seat and handlebar heights for a more agressive or more upright position. i think it's a terrific bike. and call me biased but i think the white mu p8 is a prettier bike, too.

** mp **

I had a 2007 Mu P8 for a couple of months, it was very comfortable and fast. I had a few issues and had to return the bike, but overall the bike is a sweet ride.
Nowadays I ride a 2007 Marin Novato (not a folder) and although I have got no suspension the ride is smoother (wheels are bigger) and overall it is much more reliable.... I guess that's the trade off.
I have no experience with the Swift but it looks pretty nice.

I owned a Dahon Mu P8 for a brief time. While the bike was light, responsive and enjoyable to ride, I had troubles with the primary hinge of the bicycle and eventually returned it. I've known other riders who have owned a P27 and XL respectively, neither with any troubles, but my experience wasn't the best. I have since purchased a Speed D7, and it is a very enjoyable little bike which hasn't had any of the hinge trouble.

Haven't any experience with the Xootr, sorry.

I don't think they're even in the same class... price-wise you should be comparing the standard swift with the Mu SL.

I don't think they're even in the same class... price-wise you should be comparing the standard swift with the Mu SL. [emphasis added]

Maybe you had the P24 in mind?

The MU SL retail price is $1200
MU P24 $770
MU P8 $630

Swift $700

Regards
T

My my, how quickly our minds can change. After reading tons of info on both the MU P8 and the Swift, I am now leaning toward the MU P8. But I do need to check on the hinge problem. Anyone else have this problem?

Thanks,
Terry

FWIW, having used both a Dahon and a Swift, I think you'd be fine with the Dahon -- especially if you aren't doing long rides on it.

The Swift is a very well-made bike and has a very stiff frame, but I didn't like the fold. I am not fond of Dahon's use of several proprietary parts, but they do fold well. The P8 will also be easier for you to adjust the height. I didn't have much trouble with the hinge, but I do recommend you check and tighten both the main & handlepost hinge on a regular basis.

I recommend you test-ride the Dahon, though, just to make sure it will be comfortable.

The MU SL retail price is $1200
MU P24 $770
MU P8 $630


Yeah I guess that sorta depends where you live. I got my Mu P8 for $480. At your prices, tim, I'd rather take the swift.

Yeah I guess that sorta depends where you live. I got my Mu P8 for $480. At your prices, tim, I'd rather take the swift.

You have to tell us where you do your bike shopping!

Regards
T

Here you go:
http://www.rodalink.com/id/

In fact the front page displays a Mu P8 that, at current exchange rates, comes to US$400 :)

Anyone else have anything to say about these two bikes? Good or bad. I'm still making my mind up on these two folding bikes. I really love the looks of the MU P8, but I'm thinking the Swift is faster. I've read so much on the Swift and there is so very little negative comments on the Swift, only good things. Not so much written on the MU P8.
Ride reviews anyone?
Thanks
Terry

One thing I'd want to know about the Mu is whether play/squeak/hinge issues come into the picture after a few months of regular riding. That's one thing the Swift is much better about than my Dahon Matrix was--there's no hinge, and the frame is just as solid and stiff after maybe a thousand miles as it was the day I bought it--but I don't know that this can be extrapolated to include any other Dahon model.

Anybody?

You mentioned that you wanted an upright posture -- and that's going to slow you down more than subtle differences between the two bikes. The differences in speed between the two bikes will probably come down to your own leg muscles and energy ... and the tires you choose.
Regards
T

I think the Mu P8 is a great bike, except when it comes to actually riding it. I would test the Swift and if you don't like it better than the Dahon, or if its folded size is too big, then save money and go with the Mu.

I've test ridden several Dahons including the Mu P8 and have seen a Swift in person, but not ridden it. I found the Mu P8 to have uncomfortably "twitchy" steering, more so than the Speed P8 (same components but different frame). It was also easier to ride the Speed no hands than the Mu. I know others may think no-hands is foolish, but to save my wrists over big bumps, I often unweight my hands and loosen my grip, and when I do this, all my full size bikes keep going perfectly straight. The Swift is supposedly better than either in this regard.

The components on the Dahons are better than on the Swift in my opinion, especially the derailleur and hubs. The brakes, levers, even the cable housing are all quite nice. That's not to say the Swift is awful, but the hubs don't seem as well sealed, and the front brake on the Swift I saw had broken in a way that was caused by cheap materials (the cable noodle had pulled through its stop on the brake arm apparently from someone squeezing the lever too hard).

The fold on the P8s are more compact than the Swift, and also among the most compact for a 20" dahon, because the handlebar can fit in between the folded frame halves.

The Dahons have easily adjustable handlebar height, which I found convenient when I had a Downtube. You could keep the bars low for comfort when pedaling hard, and then raise them up for comfort when cruising along slowly. On the Swift this is still possible by sliding the stem up and down which isn't that hard either, and the adjustable handlepost on the Mu can flex enough to be distracting when it is extended all the way.

...the adjustable handlepost on the Mu can flex enough to be distracting when it is extended all the way.

It's not just the handlepost being flexy, I found that the handlepost hinge, the frame hinge and the long seatpost all contribute to what feels like flexy relationship between the handlebar and seat on a Mu.

I've never ridden a swift, but it doesn't have both hinges, and the seatpost is shorter than the Dahon.

The components on the Dahons are better than on the Swift in my opinion, especially the derailleur and hubs. The brakes, levers, even the cable housing are all quite nice. That's not to say the Swift is awful, but the hubs don't seem as well sealed, and the front brake on the Swift I saw had broken in a way that was caused by cheap materials (the cable noodle had pulled through its stop on the brake arm apparently from someone squeezing the lever too hard).


I had the same problem occur on my Swift, but I'm not sure how it happened. The stop that holds the noodle should be made of sterner stuff, especially on the front-brake.

Comparing the quality of the bikes' stock components is certainly a valid approach. The Swift uses the same basic acceptable-quality components that you'll find on an entry-level Bike Friday.

But you also want to make sure replacement parts will be available. Long wait times for replacements for current-year! Dahons have been the cause of consumer dissatisfaction. Moreover, Dahon models change in some respect almost every year, and this does not make it any easier for Dahon dealers to stock spares for their existing customers. A dealer can keep in inventory only so many hinges and clamps before the cost becomes prohibitive.

Bikes aren't software, they're hardware. Under this regimen of "constant improvement and refinement" the customer receives, in effect, post-beta release-candidate proprietary components covered by manufacturer warranty for a few years. You can think of the refined components as new service packs. The longer the handlepost/stem-riser, the larger the bolts, the coarser the threads, the thicker the gauge, the wider the diameter of tubes all must be to attain long lifespan, but this beefing up runs counter to the goal of satisfying consumer demand for lightest weight and smallest fold.


[Enter Thor, stage right, hammer aloft.]

On the Swift there are few proprietary parts/dimensions which makes it easier to customize the bike and also guarantees that replacement components will be readily available.


The Dahons have easily adjustable handlebar height, which I found convenient when I had a Downtube. You could keep the bars low for comfort when pedaling hard, and then raise them up for comfort when cruising along slowly. On the Swift this is still possible by sliding the stem up and down which isn't that hard either, and the adjustable handlepost on the Mu can flex enough to be distracting when it is extended all the way.

This "adjustment" on the Swift is hardly ad hoc, and requires tools, and it may be a little dangerous to have the exposed handlepost pointing up at you in this way. I'd say rather that the Swift cannot be adjusted on-the-fly as the Mu can, and that this is both a negative and a positive, for the reason you cite. To get an upright position on the Mu means the handlepost will be extended, and the longer the post, the greater the flex and the greater the torque applied to the hinge. To get a more aggressive forward-and-lower position on the Swift really requires different bars. But that's easily done on the Swift. If the Swift had the requisite cable-stops, changing the bars could be even easier, because the cables could then be dis/connected with bayonets.

Regards
T