Training & Nutrition - High Cadence

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Raptor1956
11-12-08, 09:50 PM
I've just gotten back into cycling after many years away but back in the day I tended to maintain a cadence of about 87-92 most of the time. Most of the other riders at the time seemed to be more like low 80's or even lower. I note that one of the things that distinguished Lance from his peers is that he maintained a very high cadence.
OK, so what is the science behind this? From a purely physics standpoint if you spin faster you need to apply less force (torque) to output the same power, but the downside would seem to be an increase in the effort level required to spin faster. That is, the act of moving your legs faster would appear to burn more energy even if the force/torque is less because the work you do is only partly transferred to the pedals and then to propulsion while the remainder is wasted just moving your legs etc.
So, why is spinning faster better?
Is there a recommended training sequence where, for example, during the early part of the season or after a period away from cycling you are advised to spin faster but as you gain condition you can step down from, say 90-95 to, say, 85-90?
Brian
bakerjw
11-13-08, 07:35 AM
With higher cadence you will put out less force on the drive train which includes the knees. I know this first hand as my knees hurt when I mash the pedals. You are correct from the physics aspect as well.
I am new to riding, but from my understanding, when you start building a higher cadence, you are training fast response muscle that doesn't get used too much when mashing. I can still grind up a hill but I try to force myself into spinning it rather than using brute force. For the winter months I have no option but to spin like crazy on the exercise bike.
With spinning, the goal is to increase sustainable cadence. When you gain in condition, that cadence reflects directly as an increase in speed. So rather than going down to 85-90 you go up to 95-100 and higher. I can easily hit 105-110 in a light gear but it feels like I am not doing anything so I drop down in gears to get to 95-100.
I've just gotten back into cycling after many years away but back in the day I tended to maintain a cadence of about 87-92 most of the time. Most of the other riders at the time seemed to be more like low 80's or even lower. I note that one of the things that distinguished Lance from his peers is that he maintained a very high cadence.
Note that Lance maintained a very high cadence, and even most of his "low cadence" peers maintained a faster cadence than most recreational riders would. If your group was in the 80s or lower I would guess that they were not very "experienced".
OK, so what is the science behind this? From a purely physics standpoint if you spin faster you need to apply less force (torque) to output the same power, but the downside would seem to be an increase in the effort level required to spin faster. That is, the act of moving your legs faster would appear to burn more energy even if the force/torque is less because the work you do is only partly transferred to the pedals and then to propulsion while the remainder is wasted just moving your legs etc.
Yes, that is why it is a balance. High torque/lower cadence is more efficient but is more tiring, and high torque is hard on the knees. The differences are subtle at the margins but it is easier to see if you take it to the extremes. For example, take trying to descend in a low gear, where you are spinning furiously with almost no resistance, you are obviously using a lot of energy moving your legs around but are producing very little power. Now that I have a power meter it is very interesting to see the difference in power vs. effort at different cadences, and for example how much harder it was for me to produce 300W on a downhill vs. an uphill. Take the other extreme of a high gear on a climb, at say 30RPM where each stroke feels like a high-weight leg press and you will see you can't maintain that for very long. I was doing some big gear (53x21) climbing on Tuesday; it was an 8% average climb but there were some 16% switchbacks where I was killing myself just to keep from falling over. So cadence is always a balance between leg strength and aerobic endurance.
So, why is spinning faster better?
It depends on the rider and whether their build favors muscular strength or aerobic endurance. A rider without much strength but a strong aerobic system will favor spinning faster, because low cadence/high torque will fatigue them faster. Also, high cadence allows for faster accelerations, which is why higher cadence is favored for crit and road racing. Time trials don't require such accelerations or as much endurance, and many racers will use a higher gear and lower cadence.
Is there a recommended training sequence where, for example, during the early part of the season or after a period away from cycling you are advised to spin faster but as you gain condition you can step down from, say 90-95 to, say, 85-90?
There is no reason to do this.
Read this:
http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx/archive/2008/05/12/faster-8-cadence.aspx
Creakyknees
11-16-08, 09:08 AM
as I recall, the reason behind Lance's high cadence had more to do with day to day recovery during the 3 weeks of the Tour.
if you're not racing, ride what's most comfortable for you.
zeytoun
11-18-08, 08:00 AM
So, why is spinning faster better?It's not necessarily better.
It depends on your needs.
If you're talking about a non-sweaty, semi leisurely ride, spinning is not the most efficient cadence - a somewhat slower one is.
If you're talking about a long, fast ride, spinning is probably better.
If you're talking about a last ditch sprint, spinning vs. semi-mashing, is a judgment call, depending on your needs and characteristics.
Here's why:
When we mash on a high gear, at a low cadence, you are using your fast-twitch muscle fibers more, to produce raw power. This is like using a high weight at the gym. These muscles take more than a few minutes to recover, if you wear them out. Save this for the end of a race/ride, or if you just want to really work these sprinting fibers for whatever reasons.
When we focus on sustained output on a lower gear, you are using your slow-twitch muscle fibers more. These fibers can put out low power over a really, really long time (especially as you train them). They use your cardiovascular system to recover, so if you are worn out and out of breath, you can take a break for a couple minutes, catch your breath, and then you feel as good as new. As Creakyknees pointed out, this helped Lance recover quickly during the tour.
The bottom line is that longfemur is right, and arbitrary cadences are for the birds. I let mine vary anywhere from 60 to 120+ (for sprints, sometimes). Just try not to be straining against the pedals, if you can avoid it. I like to ride casually, on a fairly light gear, at 60-80. If I want to speed up I stay in that gear and just spin faster. If I want to sprint, I might drop down a gear, and really spin.
I have also read that blood flow drops significantly in a muscle that is being used heavily and then resumes once the muscle relaxes. A slow but high effort cadence means the muscle is starved for blood flow longer. Means oxygen doesn't get in and waste products don't get flushed out. A higher spin rate is an attempt to maximize blood flow in the muscles while still generating decent power.
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