Advocacy & Safety - Why Are Bicyclists Unpopular?

I am a member of a large non cycling web group and in their open forum area there have been discussions of bicycling and bicyclists. I have been surprised by the number of motor vehicle drivers who do NOT like us, some vehemently so.

The big complaint seems to be the number of bicyclists who routinely ignore traffic laws.

In Nevada the basic bicycle traffic rule is as follows:

NRS 484.503 Traffic laws apply to person riding bicycle.

Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway has all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle except as otherwise provided in NRS 484.504 to 484.513, inclusive, and except as to those provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.


There are other provisions covering lighting for night use etc. but basically a bicycle is supposed to obey the same traffic rules as any motor vehicle. Many bicyclists do not. I routinely see fellow bicyclists riding on the wrong side of the road, on sidewalks, against traffic on one way streets, running red lights and other violations of traffic laws. Many are adults who should be aware of the rules they are supposed to follow.

Are some bicyclists our own worst enemies as far as making motor vehicle drivers dislike us? I believe that this may well be the case.

because they smell.

I routinely see motorists breaking traffic laws...do the people on the "non-cycling web group" ever say they hate motorists/motor vehicles because of the drivers that break laws and "give them all a bad name"? There's something about the "gives us all a bad name" argument that doesn't follow. Maybe minorities (like cyclists) are treated differently?

It's just that most people in nevada are a bunch a hicks, they can't even imagine that we also have cars and pay road taxes just like the rest of the cow tippers
If you make a car slow down even for a second watch out
Actually though, I think the majority of people here do get it. I have had a few things happen but for every bad experience with a car there are a 100 good ones.
Don't take it personally and maybe you are setting yourself up???

People in cars hate anything that might hold them up ........
"Roads are for cars and people who pay taxes"
"If you had a real job you wouldnt have time to ride"

Because the of typical AnS victim mentality.

It's bigger than A&S, Dobber - you need to remodel your conceptual framework! Proponents of social identity theory love us cyclists; we're an outgroup...

If I wanted to be popular I'd drive a hummer.

If I wanted to be popular I'd drive a hummer.

wouldn't motorists give you crap for driving such a huge vehicle and not being able to see around you then hit that pedestrian that you moved out of the way to see?

To paraphrase a Smashing Pumpkins' song, "Despite all their rage, they're still just rats in a cage". I think driver's attitudes have more to do with it than us being bicyclists. Ever see a driver go ballistic when s/he gets stuck behind another motorist who just happens to be going 5mpn slower on a two-lane road? Strong argument for gun control (but that's a whole other kettle of fish ;)). Maybe it has something to do with CFCs in automotive A/C units; or perhaps it's all the electronics melting their brains until they devolve into Neanderthals. Maybe they feel constrained, imprisoned in their shiny, metal coffins on wheels and a 400cu.in. V-8 engine with supercharged BS straight from the auto plants. I guess there are some mysteries in the universe that we will never know the answers to.

I understand it pretty well considering how much my fellow motorists annoy me. Cyclists are different, therefore motorists remember they were annoyed by us.

A couple of months back, I was traveling, and I still remember the cyclist in full racing gear riding slowly on an incredibly busy road. I was surprised that this guy was there, and had a little trouble getting around him. Now since then, I estimate 50 motorists have done something stupid that was more likely to cause an accident with me while I was driving my car. I would have to work to remember any of those people.

Selfishness plays a huge part in why drivers hate cyclists, since in the mind of drivers, the cyclists are slowing drivers down and using "their" roads, but most drivers would never go into conniptions against slow moving car drivers like they do against cyclists. Something else is going on and I think much of it is the very primal emotion of fear, many drivers are deathly afraid (rightly or wrongly, you can't debate whether they should be afraid, fear either exists or it doesn't) that they will hit someone on a bike and hurt or kill them.

When someone is afraid, then usually one of two reactions to fear take over, fight or flight. Those that yell at us are experiencing the fight reaction to fear, they are fighting with us because down deep, they are afraid they may hurt us. And of course when you are fighting, all reason and logic goes out the window and drivers resort to threats, insults, assaults, etc.

Its really the same reaction that many here on this forum have to dog "attacks". Many cyclists are afraid of dogs, again rightly or wrongly doesn't matter, that a dog running at them wants to hurt them. Fear brings out the fight reaction in the cyclists so thats why you read of so many people that want to do irrational things like shoot dogs with guns and permanently blind them with caustic chemicals, even though most dogs are just playing when they chase cyclists.

The same way cyclists lash out at dogs they are afraid of, motorists lash out at cyclists they are afraid of.

They are jealous because we are free.

The same with anything. People who don't conform are targets. Seeing how cycling is perceived as a recreational activity and not real transport and that bikes are seen as toys and NOT vehicles they are obviously been ridden by people too poor to own a car (which after all is the mark of citizenship in North America) so who cares? or operated by fancy pants know it alls wearing spandex. In either case these people are seen as selfish in obstructing those who are busy doing something real with their lives. So the only way we will make ourselves popular with drivers is to stop riding our bikes (except in our own driveways), shut up and conform.

I routinely see motorists breaking traffic laws...snip...There's something about the "gives us all a bad name" argument that doesn't follow...

+1

motorists don't hate cyclists because we filter or do the occasional slow-and-go through stop signs.

they hate us for the same reason they hate road construction, stop lights that could be "synchronized" but aren't (because we all know there's a magical formula out there that would allow all drivers to always have green lights and it's only city hall's stupidity/laziness that makes drivers have to stop), and, most importantly, other drivers -- most of the honks, fingers and road rage, after all, is directed by motorists at motorists.

the bottom line is this*: motorists hate anything that gets in their way. driving in traffic, around obstacles is a frustrating and unhappy activity that most people are doing under the pressure of a deadline.

now we, as cyclists, seem to think that we get more than our fair share of abuse from frustrated motorists, and maybe that's true. maybe it's because we're softer targets (or at least perceived as such) or maybe we're regarded as the most egregious obstacles. or maybe we don't get a more-than-average amount of abuse from road rage set. maybe we just notice it more.


* i realize my "bottom line" is, in fact, second from the bottom. third if the footnote is counted. i plead artistic freedom.

I had a (barely controlled) discussion with an angry motorist once. He had "buzzed" me on a four-lane bridge, and honked at me.

When I got to the other side, I stopped at a convenience store to get something to eat, and he had stopped there also.

He told me I wasn't going the speed limit (it's an UPPER limit dummy), and that I was blocking the road (there were share the road signs on the bridge, and sharrows in the right lane).

When I asked him if he saw the signs, he told me I shouldn't wear spandex in public (It's lycra dummy, and why do you care what I wear).

I think most drivers think we are breaking the law by riding in the road, and feel the need to do something about it. Ah well, I'm more worried about how to change the attitude than what it is.

They hate our freedom.

But seriously, the whole scofflaw cyclist argument is BS. Just like the every driver is out to kill you nonsense on the cyclist side of advocacy.
The simple truth is that in every group of people a certain percentage are a-holes, some of them cycle, some of them drive, some of them troll internet forums. In the end it's just easier to be an a-hole in a car because of the anonymity. People blaming law breaking cyclists for their hatred of all cyclists are just making excuses for their ignorance and general a-holishness. Of course nobody is goiing to come right out and say, "I honked at you because I'm a jerk."

They are jealous because we are free.

Yup, that is exactly what it comes down to. They'll make about 110 excuses to cover it up though. A very easy thing to do if you don't wanna face the music.

wouldn't motorists give you crap for driving such a huge vehicle and not being able to see around you then hit that pedestrian that you moved out of the way to see?


I have no idea. I thought that is the thing to have now-a-days. Oh wait, it would eat as much gas as it would take for the owner to pay it of, in a month. Hey that is a good question.......


What is popular now-a-days????? .....WOW.... I can't really think of anything

I don't ride on most streets because I don't trust motorists. They are unsafe, they don't understand the cycling laws, and have a bad opinion of cyclists already. The drunks and poor people that ride bikes here ride on the wrong side of the road and blow through stop signs and lights.

I've yet to come across a motorist that hated me or my bicycle.

Maybe I'm just not as thin skinned as you all apparently are.

The whole, "they hate us, because of scofflaw cyclists" notion, is both untrue, and useless information for the law-abiding cyclist, who is not in control of other people's actions.

1) In our society, disparities in power set up a whole chain of "paying abuse forward" behavior. The boss chides the employee, the employee says something rude to the waiter, the waiter flips off another driver, the driver snips at her husband, the husband says something jerky to the kids... etc. etc.

2) Since we are impotent to lash out at our "superiors" we are constantly looking for a scapegoat to punish for our misery. Scapegoats are ideally a minority group, with at least a chunk of it's members behaving in socially "unacceptable" ways. Bicyclists fit the needs perfectly. Blame them for your long commute, or for the guilt you feel about not living an environmentally conscious life, or for your high car insurance rates, or for your insecurity over your growing belly-fat.

3) Once one has chosen a scapegoat, one must then blame the scapegoat for the cruel treatment it receives. This is to alleviate the guilt of being a cruel bully. So one says that the scapegoat is behaving illegally, or has no business on the road, or is asking for it.

This information is useful to a cyclist. First of all, it helps us to understand our own behavior, and how much of it is really based on this dynamic. We like to rationalize our behavior after the fact, and pretend that we operate logically, but most of our conflict revolves around a dynamic like the above. So we learn how to stop ourselves from doing this.

The antidote: Treat people with respect. Refuse to play the superior/inferior power games with service people, clients, etc. Instead, connect to people legitimately through listening, non-hostile eye contact, and frank, friendly conversation. Be present and open.

Of course, some people are really damaged, and you're not going to have the chance to practice this behavior with everyone. So in the meantime, buy a mirror, be vigilant, and take charge of your own behavior.

They are jealous because we are free.

yeah! Not. If they were truly jealous it would be an easy fix. Most people I have run into while out on my bike probably thought I was too poor to drive. They have a superiority complex and must assert their dominance via honking and shouting. Out of all of my friends, only one or two actually understand the idea of using a bike as transportation. Most think that me riding my bike 5+ miles a day is just insane, and that I have completely lost it. I normally ride way more than 5 miles, and that really blows them away. No driver drives by and thinks "Man, I wish I could ride a bike to where I am going"

they hate us for the same reason they hate road construction, stop lights that could be "synchronized" but aren't (because we all know there's a magical formula out there that would allow all drivers to always have green lights and it's only city hall's stupidity/laziness that makes drivers have to stop)

Actually, my town does have synchronized lights, but they are synchronized to stop the traffic most of the time. Occasionally they will mistakenly have them set to allow traffic to flow. In the morning, they are synchronized to allow traffic to flow out of town, and in the evening, they allow traffic to flow into town. I have no idea why this is, I think it's some sort of misguided notion of safety. Synchronizing lights doesn't work all the time, but it does work. There are a couple of problematic intersections where multiple lights have to synchronize or the whole town center would come to a halt. They have done a fairly good job with those.

Since I'm riding my bike to work now, it doesn't bother me often.

The law breaking idea does not hold water. I was given a ticket a while back for running a stop sign. There was no traffic in view. I had slowed down to about 1 mph and gone through. The police man was nailing people at this stop sign because no one was there. So the next few weeks, out of curiosity, I watched other motorists to see if they came to a complete stop at stop signs. I was wondering if my ommission of coming to a complete stop was out of the ordinary. As it turned out, I watched other motorists in situations where there was no traffic coming and I did not ever see one come to a complete stop over a period lasting several weeks. I think cyclists are just a bit more obvious and besides they ride bicycles which are seen as toys by motorists.

Most of the riders I know are popular. They, however, lack the power to control comments.

I think it's the typical "I hate my situation and therefore I'm going to reflect my anger on someone else rather than doing something about my own sh!tty life" attitude. The way I look at it is I can't do anything about it, so I ignore it. Good luck to all those people who hate their lives yet do nothing to improve them.

I agree that law breaking is a poor excuse for motorists venting road rage. I see a lot of bad cycling in town (Cambridge), but tend to get the abuse when out in the country riding as predictably as you like in a group. Motorists sure hate the lycra, but I think they really just feel angry that there are people keeping fit somewhere that isn't a gym.

1) In our society, disparities in power set up a whole chain of "paying abuse forward" behavior...
2) Since we are impotent to lash out at our "superiors" we are constantly looking for a scapegoat to punish for our misery....
3) Once one has chosen a scapegoat, one must then blame the scapegoat for the cruel treatment it receives...
The antidote: Treat people with respect.... take charge of your own behavior.

hm. i wish i'd said that.

I am very popular and everyone loves me and my bike.

I do understand though that not everyone can be as cool as me.

In the end it's just easier to be an a-hole in a car because of the anonymity.

I think that's it.

In the end it's just easier to be an a-hole on the internet because of the anonymity.

fixed.

It really makes me sad to see cyclist so adamantly refuse responsibility altogether. Face it, there ARE cyclists out there that draw a lot of negative attention by doing stupid, illegal things that force drivers to react. When driving my car, if a jerk runs a low speed red light in a car and I almost hit him, I think, "Darn you, I could have crashed and it would have damaged both our cars and inconvenienced us!!". When a biker does the same, it scares the HELL out of me, knowing that I could have been involved in an accident that would *KILL* a person. Can you blame me for remembering the latter with a lot more ire? Not to mention, I live in a heavy biking area - on my route to work, I honestly don't remember the last time I've seen a car blow through one of the signs or lights, but I see it regularly (at least once or twice a week) with cyclists.

Now sure, there's some level of unfair entitlement that contributes to the hate. It's probably most of it in fact... but to deny that the somewhat common disregard for stop signs and lights among cyclists in some areas is is a contributor as well is just stupid and irresponsible.

It really makes me sad to see cyclist so adamantly refuse responsibility altogether.
two points: first:
there is no reason for some criminal motorist to assault me because he saw some teenager run a stop sign yesterday.
second:
motorists are constantly getting in each others way and slowing each other down. Most people drive like self-centered idiots some of the time. In most areas of the U.S., nobody takes this as a reason to go insane. A cyclist riding legally is seen by some motorists as license to engage in threatening and criminal behavior.

And overall, I get tired of people that make veiled suggestions that we somehow deserve all the bad treatment we get. That's simply nonsense.



I honestly don't remember the last time I've seen a car blow through one of the signs or lights, but I see it regularly (at least once or twice a week) with cyclists.you must not live within 10 miles of the geographic center of Pennsylvania, because on my ride to work I see people drive through red lights and stop signs multiple times. My daughter did a study for drivers ed, and the only people who stopped for the stop signs she monitored were me and my wife, and we knew she was there. Lights are a bit different, but motorists around here blow through red lights if they are turning right. I don't see that very often when they are going straight. As far as cyclists blowing through red lights, I almost always see them follow Idaho rules, which are perfectly safe. I think that all states should have Idaho rules for cyclists.

Motorists sure hate the lycra, but I think they really just feel angry that there are people keeping fit somewhere that isn't a gym.

+1. It's part of society's compartmentalization. You aren't supposed to work out except at the gym. You aren't supposed to bike except as a child. You aren't supposed to heed the limit except when a cop's in sight. It goes on and on. The media helps propagate a very cookie-cutter (and commercial) approach to life.

two points: first:
there is no reason for some criminal motorist to assault me because he saw some teenager run a stop sign yesterday.[quote]

Agreed. And of course, completely irrelevant. Yes, it's unreasonable for anyone to assault you. But that doesn't change the fact that people get a bad impression of bikes when one of the most common exposures they have to them is dangerous lawlessness.


second:
motorists are constantly getting in each others way and slowing each other down. Most people drive like self-centered idiots some of the time. In most areas of the U.S., nobody takes this as a reason to go insane. A cyclist riding legally is seen by some motorists as license to engage in threatening and criminal behavior.


Agreed. And of course, completely irrelevant. Doesn't change the fact that by defending those cyclists who routinely break the law, we defend those who make an already horrible problem worse.




And overall, I get tired of people that make veiled suggestions that we somehow deserve all the bad treatment we get. That's simply nonsense.

Of course that's nonsense, and it's not at all what I said. The problem exists either way. Lawlessness of some cyclists makes it worse. Does that make it our fault? Of course not. Does that mean whe deserve it? Hell no. But to deny that some cyclists make the problem worse is, as I said earlier, stupid and irresponsible.


As for where I live, Little Rock. The intersection between Cedar Hill and Cantrell is one of the worst - Cyclists routinely weave across cantrell on a red here. I don't know why, and believe me there are few places it would be stupider to do this, but I see it all the time.

It really makes me sad to see cyclist so adamantly refuse responsibility altogether.

well, no one said that cyclists were "refusing responsibility altogether". what i think people here are saying is that drivers hate people who get in their way, period. and, from our perspective as cyclists, that's us. when you use loaded language like that it sounds like your accusing cyclists of some sort of reckless endangerment or something.

well, no one said that cyclists were "refusing responsibility altogether". what i think people here are saying is that drivers hate people who get in their way, period. and, from our perspective as cyclists, that's us. when you use loaded language like that it sounds like your accusing cyclists of some sort of reckless endangerment or something.

*I* say cyclists generally refuse responsibility altogether. Every time someone mentions it, the masses start raving about how drivers are worse, and they speed, and they hurt us worse in wrecks, and that someone yelled at them today ,and ANYTHING but the original subject. Sure, all those things are true, and they're all real problems, and generally they're larger problems than cyclists who can't seem to decipher the color red -- but they're all discussed ad nauseum, and they're not relevant to this question, so it comes across as an adamant rejection of responsibility.

For all these problems, there are two solutions: make peace with drivers, or make war with drivers. If you want to go to war, I'm switching sides: we're outnumbered and outgunned. If you want to make peace, it's important to take care of ANY aspect of the problem that is within our power, then it all comes down to education. No, it's not an easy solution, it's damn hard - but it's better than war.

I think we all need a big hug.

given that cyclists represent such a pitifully small percentage of road users it's amazing to me when I hear of automobilists reactions (re: over reactions).

I'm an everyday cyclist who racks up a fair number of miles on a bike per year but I also drive a car once in a while. I'm pretty cyclist aware as a driver and I still have few, if any, issues with the cyclists I see. To me it's much ado about nothing.

drivers should be angry at cops for not cracking down and ticketing illegal behavior. Drivers speed if they know they won't get caught--just like cyclists don't follow the rules because they are unlikely to be ticketed.

Hate the game, not the cyclist.

Depends on the type; please allow me a couple of personal generalizations:

MTBRs : Friendly :: Roadies : Annoying

Commuters : Helpful :: VCers : Survivors

Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway has all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle...

If I have all the rights, I should be able to ride in any lane or lane position that I please, including Interstate Highways.

I seem to have all of the rights, except for the ones I don't - yet I have to follow the rules as if I had all of the rights. Screw them.

[snip] ...No driver drives by and thinks "Man, I wish I could ride a bike to where I am going"
I do (when I'm driving)...

If I have all the rights, I should be able to ride in any lane or lane position that I please, including Interstate Highways.

I seem to have all of the rights, except for the ones I don't - yet I have to follow the rules as if I had all of the rights. Screw them. If you're going the same speed as the other road users you do have the right to ride in any lane or lane position that you please...except highways posted not allowing you to enter due to a safer alternate route existing. Bicycles are generally considered slow moving vehicles, especially on roads with speed limits of 65mph or higher...would you expect to see a tractor doing 15mph in the fast lane on an interstate highway?

*I* say cyclists generally refuse responsibility altogether. Every time someone mentions it, the masses start raving about ... bzz bzz bzz... Sure, all those things are true, and they're all real problems, and generally they're larger problems than cyclists who can't seem to decipher the color red

well, sounds like you have done a good job of prioritizing the problems. i vote we start making the solution by starting with the larger ones.


If you want to go to war, I'm switching sides:

melodramatic and mercenary. a rare combination indeed.

If you're going the same speed as the other road users you do have the right to ride in any lane or lane position that you please...except highways posted not allowing you to enter due to a safer alternate route existing. Bicycles are generally considered slow moving vehicles, especially on roads with speed limits of 65mph or higher...would you expect to see a tractor doing 15mph in the fast lane on an interstate highway?

I bike on state highways that have 60 mph limits. Most interstates in the city have 60 mph limits and huge shoulders too. No difference, except at the merge points where things would get real interesting.

I am told to act like a car only when it is convenient for the cars. Then I have to act like a rat in the gutter according to laws for which I have a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y no respect whatsoever.

If you have laws that tell you to act like a rat in the gutter they should be changed. I've never heard of such laws existing though. It's legal for me to ride on many 65mph freeways here (US101 for example) but the freeway would be out of my way for most trips.

HI,
remember the bottom line if you side swipe a car, you may have to pay to repaint the car and remove a dent. IF you side swipe a bike rider you may have commited a act of vehicular
homicide, so if you ride bikes its important to be very defensive even if your in the right, or you may be dead.:innocent:as they say dead right ..
Doug

*I* say cyclists generally refuse responsibility altogether. ...You sound like a brand new rider that does not commute. You still have a motorist mind set. Try cycle commuting, rather than just some recreational riding, and learn.

You really do not see motorist breaking the law? Arkansas must have the most law abiding motorist in the nation.:rolleyes:
On an average commute, I see an average of 12 motorist make left turns after the light has turned red at 4 separate intersections. Motorist rarely come to complete stops at stop signs. Many barely even slow (some even speed up, to beat cross traffic) when making a right turn on red; ignoring the pedestrians with the right of way. There is one section of my commute, when traffic backs up, motorist will move onto the shoulder without signal and illegally drive on the shoulder.