"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Can someone explain racing catagories to me?

without making fun of me, can someone give me the basics to racing catagories. Or hook me up with a link to where i can learn about it...

USACycling is the U.S. governing body. They have a primer (http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=2622) for all your questions.

Go on, be a Cat V.

Everyone starts as a cat 5. You have to race 10 races as a 5, to get experience racing in a small pack, before you can move up to cat 4. After that, you move up in category based on a points gained from race results. Each category has different points requirements.

The details and all the other rules are in the USA Cycling handbook, which is on their web site.

Here are how the upgrades work.

http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580

Cat 3 is the Ultimate Cat (http://cat3phenom.blogspot.com/2008/04/cat-3-racing-is-toughest.html). That's all you need to know.

^
+1

Wow. After reading that I'm kind of sorry I upgraded :(

Cat 3 is the Ultimate Cat (http://cat3phenom.blogspot.com/2008/04/cat-3-racing-is-toughest.html). That's all you need to know.

As a recently branded cat3, I find that post funny. I've enjoyed my masters 35+ races though.

Cat 3 is the Ultimate Cat (http://cat3phenom.blogspot.com/2008/04/cat-3-racing-is-toughest.html).


Hilarious. Must read.

Racing categories: In an attempt to attract more people to a sport that isn't fun if you can't hang with the pack, they found a way to let the losers win.

There are two separate ways of classifying races - age and ability. The two work independently of each other.

"Ability" is "category". Most racers are Cat 4s or Cat 3s. This is because of a couple reasons. First, to become a Cat 5 all you have to do is pay money. You can become a 4 just by doing a bunch of races. You can do a 3 by beating the 4s, who, if you take the cynical view, are simply Cat 5s who are still learning how to race.

To earn upgrade points your races need to meet minimum distance and field size numbers. So doing a race with 5 other guys in a 2 mile race doesn't count (unless you're on the track).

Your ability/Category is independent of your age. You can be a Cat 1 at 15 years old, a Cat 5 at 50, or vice versa.

I believe that to become a Cat 2 takes some physiological talent or insane amounts of training. I've never been a 2. I was offered an upgrade based on a 2nd place (5 points) at a race that had maybe 15 starters, and I didn't think that was a fair 2nd place because I only beat one Cat 2 (the guy who got second was DQ'ed for dangerous sprinting, and the other Cat 2 won). The rest of the guys were 3s. I turned down the upgrade and never got close since (closest was 28 points, with 30 points making me eligible to request an upgrade). I don't have that physiological talent ("genetics") and I only trained an insane amount for about 10 years. I could never rack up the points necessary to upgrade in those 10 or so years. My main obstacle were some very strong Cat 3 Masters racers.

This brings me to the age thing.

Your age segregates you, just like your Category.

If you are older (say over 30) then you can enter Masters races for racers your age or younger. If you're 40, you can enter a 35+ race.

Since age segregated races usually don't have Categories (except "No Cat 5s allowed"), they are a free for all for Category. This means *many* of those Masters are very, very, very good racers, typically ex-Cat 1s or ex-Cat 2s. Now that they aren't trying to turn pro, or since they've retired from being a pro, they downgrade to Cat 3 and beat up one another in the Cat 3s and the Masters.

I find Cat 3 races to be infinitely easier than Masters races (at M35 anyway) because a Cat 3 race is a race with Cat 3s in it. An M35 race will probably have 1/4 Cat 1s or 2s, 1/2 Cat 3s, and 1/4 Cat 4s. This means a "Masters" race is usually a Cat 1-2 race with a bunch of Cat 3s either hanging on for dear life (if they are true Cat 3s). If the Cat 3s are NOT hanging on for dear life then they are sandbagging, i.e. they ought to move up to Cat 2 but for personal reasons they don't want to upgrade.

This usually has to do with ego or money or both.

There is one Cat 3 who for literally over a decade would win numerous races as a 3. He said that if he makes less than $1500 a weekend - in the mid 90s - that it wasn't a good week. He'd be forcibly upgraded to a Cat 2 at the end of the year (with 300+ points on his license - you need 20-30 to upgrade, and usually 40-60 to be forced to upgrade). Then he'd "get dropped" in a bunch of Cat 2 races, cite some lifestyle changes which cut into his training, and request a downgrade to a Cat 3. He'd get the downgrade and win 20+ times, second 20+ times, etc. Repeat.

The kicker is that he was a Master too, so he was winning/placing in multiple races each day - usually Cat 3s, M35 or M40, and Pro-1-2-3.

There are other, older Masters racers who will win/place in Cat 3s, M45, M55. Their biggest rivals are other Masters guys.

Here is another thing: Masters races do NOT count towards upgrade points. If I win all the Masters races I enter, they're considered, usually, a Cat 4 race (since a Cat 4 can enter them). It's up to a district rep's discretion to include the results, but they don't have to. If I win 6 Cat 3 races, I'm forcibly upgraded (42 points, and 40 I think is the auto upgrade points count now). So if I wanted to sandbag and I was a good 3, I'd get about 35-38 points in Cat 3 races then enter them just for training. I'd focus on winning/placing in Masters races. Since I'm not that good I actually try to win/place select (flat crit) Cat 3 races, but usually I get annihilated by 45-55+ year old racers, many of them ex-Cat 1s or 2s. The old guard are finally moving on so I see more and more younger winners.

Note: If you are under 18, you can enter a Junior race, and usually the same disparity in ability applies. When I was a Junior (and a Cat 4), I had to race against a younger but much faster Frank McCormack (ex-pro with Saturn), George Hincapie (of Columbia/Discovery/USPS fame), and a bunch of less known but very strong guys who ended up pros or Cat 1s. Life sucked for the 3 years I was a Junior (if I finished a race it was a huge triumph), but when I raced against Cat 4s, I could win handily. I upgraded to Cat 3 right away.

cdr

Note: If you are under 18, you can enter a Junior race, and usually the same disparity in ability applies. When I was a Junior (and a Cat 4), I had to race against a younger but much faster Frank McCormack (ex-pro with Saturn), George Hincapie (of Columbia/Discovery/USPS fame), and a bunch of less known but very strong guys who ended up pros or Cat 1s. Life sucked for the 3 years I was a Junior (if I finished a race it was a huge triumph), but when I raced against Cat 4s, I could win handily. I upgraded to Cat 3 right away.

cdr

Quick question on this...This season will be my first year of racing (I'm 15 years old). I was under the impression that I could only race juniors. Am I able to race in Cat 5? And then upgrade to 4, etc? Do I get upgrade points for cat 4 if I race juniors?

Second...Assuming I can. What do you recommend I do, Cat 5 or Juniors? Or both?.

You can race cat 5, but you have to do it on junior gearing. There are juniors who are cat 1s.

I think that's in Chapter 10 (http://www.velopress.com/cycling.php?id=256).

And one of the interesting aspects of this sport (with its categorization and age groups) is that it's possible to see a bike race with men and women competitors from age 15 to 72.

You can race cat 5, but you have to do it on junior gearing. There are juniors who are cat 1s.

and just make sure you know where the "junior roll out is" usually after the race... and an official will check your gearing... seen Junior's do well in the CAT 4/5 race.. and then forget about the roll outs...

Racing categories: In an attempt to attract more people to a sport that isn't fun if you can't hang with the pack, they found a way to let the losers win.

Very true, but rightly so. It'd be no fun otherwise.

But by the same token, prizes for low-Cats are sufficiently pointless that I'd really rather they didn't have them and kept the entry fees lower.

(also, as there is negligible hope that I'll ever win any cash, I'd rather not be shelling out for fees :) )
(I do have a flashy pewter tankard in winnings though - much better than gas money)

I would say that there are three ways to classify races: age, ability and gender. Women may (if they choose) race in "men's" races (USAC rule 1H2) - but men may not race in "women's" races. If the OP wants to read all the USA Cycling rules they are here http://www.usacycling.org/road/ . Roll your cursor over Road at the top of the page and then select Road Rulebook. 140 pages of fun reading.

There is one Cat 3 who for literally over a decade would win numerous races as a 3. He said that if he makes less than $1500 a weekend - in the mid 90s - that it wasn't a good week. He'd be forcibly upgraded to a Cat 2 at the end of the year (with 300+ points on his license - you need 20-30 to upgrade, and usually 40-60 to be forced to upgrade). Then he'd "get dropped" in a bunch of Cat 2 races, cite some lifestyle changes which cut into his training, and request a downgrade to a Cat 3. He'd get the downgrade and win 20+ times, second 20+ times, etc. Repeat.

cdr

Anyone I know ?

Very true, but rightly so. It'd be no fun otherwise.

But by the same token, prizes for low-Cats are sufficiently pointless that I'd really rather they didn't have them and kept the entry fees lower.
As someone who isn't winning squat in Cat 4, I agree completely. Do you think the removal of cash prizes (medals and primes only) in 3, 4, and 5 races would reduce sandbagging, reduce attendance, or have no measurable effect on amateur racing?

Very true, but rightly so. It'd be no fun otherwise.

But by the same token, prizes for low-Cats are sufficiently pointless that I'd really rather they didn't have them and kept the entry fees lower.

(also, as there is negligible hope that I'll ever win any cash, I'd rather not be shelling out for fees :) )
(I do have a flashy pewter tankard in winnings though - much better than gas money)

Hey, I framed the $20 bill I won :thumb:

As someone who isn't winning squat in Cat 4, I agree completely. Do you think the removal of cash prizes (medals and primes only) in 3, 4, and 5 races would reduce sandbagging, reduce attendance, or have no measurable effect on amateur racing?

I don't think money should be removed from the 3's. It's nice to have a competitive level of amateur racing where people can perform.

It's the ultimate cat, it should totally have prize money!

That being said, I don't think that 4/5 races should have prize money. Maybe winnings (schwag) but not cash...

I don't think money should be removed from the 3's. It's nice to have a competitive level of amateur racing where people can perform.

It's the ultimate cat, it should totally have prize money!

That being said, I don't think that 4/5 races should have prize money. Maybe winnings (schwag) but not cash...

I'd suspect that that cat 5s are like free fountain drink refills at fast food restaurants: Costs them very little to offer and it has zero overhead but it's also wildly popular and a good sell point with monster margin.

Personally, I'd like to see the system switch around with less emphasis placed on the higher-end riders. Imagine if there were two categories that worked like cat 3 does now and merge 1/2, as they always end up doing that anyway since the riders are interchangeable.

I'd suspect that that cat 5s are like free fountain drink refills at fast food restaurants: Costs them very little to offer and it has zero overhead but it's also wildly popular and a good sell point with monster margin.

Personally, I'd like to see the system switch around with less emphasis placed on the higher-end riders. Imagine if there were two categories that worked like cat 3 does now and merge 1/2, as they always end up doing that anyway since the riders are interchangeable.

Like the 2s?

Being a 2, I can tell you that there is definitely a difference between a 1 and a 2, and they are not "interchangeable".

Like the 2s?

Being a 2, I can tell you that there is definitely a difference between a 1 and a 2, and they are not "interchangeable".

yes, especially at NRC races, or otherwise when there is a separate 2 only race...

Like the 2s?

Being a 2, I can tell you that there is definitely a difference between a 1 and a 2, and they are not "interchangeable".

+1, when I'm in a break in the Tuesday Nighter, I can usually hang and contribute with some 2s, but with 1s, it only lasts about 5 minutes before I'm back with the pack. Unfortunately, the 2s and I can't stay out front with the 1s back there either (without proper team representation).

I like cats.

Yesterday was Caturday. Thread closed.

Hey, I framed the $20 bill I won :thumb:
That just proves my point. You could have hung a medal on the wall instead of taking $20 out of the circulation. It's quite obvious that people like you are responsible for our failing economy and not the banks. :D


I don't think money should be removed from the 3's. It's nice to have a competitive level of amateur racing where people can perform.

It's the ultimate cat, it should totally have prize money!

That being said, I don't think that 4/5 races should have prize money. Maybe winnings (schwag) but not cash...
Fine, since this is all imaginary, keep the money for your "utlimate cat" (yes, I read the blog). I don't think they'll take away cash prizes because it seems to attract riders, even if it's not enough to replace the entry fee and travel expenses.

The rest of you should realize that taking cash prizes away won't reduce the entry fees anyway. You know full well that they need the leftover money to pay race costs. Do the math.

Anyone I know ?

He ventures into our territory only for bigger races. I'll point him out to you if all of us are at a race.

cdr

Cat 3 is the Ultimate Cat (http://cat3phenom.blogspot.com/2008/04/cat-3-racing-is-toughest.html). That's all you need to know.

Sounds like Nancy-assed sandbagging to me.

This is what my home shop looks like, with me wearing a fredly zumi rain coat:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1005000/images/_1008356_copper300.jpg

It's not my fault though. They tell me I'm too young for Masters racing next year (unlike this year and last year). Plus, I'm not into 4 hour races as a Cat 2.

As a recently branded cat3, I find that post funny. I've enjoyed my masters 35+ races though.

I didn't know about the upgrade.

:beer:

This is what my home shop looks like, with me wearing a fredly zumi rain coat:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1005000/images/_1008356_copper300.jpg

It's not my fault though. They tell me I'm too young for Masters racing next year (unlike this year and last year). Plus, I'm not into 4 hour races as a Cat 2.

Nice helmut

ok, so im relatively new to cycling, but im in very good shape and i want to get into racing.

i know i will have to start in catagory 5, but what is something i should work for to know i will do well in my cat.

and, is it a necessity to get a trainer to train for racing, or is just riding outside when i can enough?

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=380788

ok, so im relatively new to cycling, but im in very good shape and i want to get into racing.

i know i will have to start in catagory 5, but what is something i should work for to know i will do well in my cat.

and, is it a necessity to get a trainer to train for racing, or is just riding outside when i can enough?

Prepare for a rude awakening.

You live in TX. Provided enough daylight, you should be able to ride outside year round.