Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - sugino crank clarification

can someone please explain the differences in the sugino crank sets. there are so many and other than the prices i dont really know the differences in the xd, rd, rd messenger, rd2 messenger(is this different than rd messenger?), 75s...

thanks

i'd like to know as well. my buddy has the 75s and they feel so good.

I third this...I was looking at the xd for a good budget-minded crankset.

XD=110BCD
RD=130BCD
75s=144BCD more expensive cause they're stronger and actually used in track racing.

RD Messenger is your basic RD cranks with a beefier chainring
RD2 Messenger is the same thing only it's sugino's new model name

As far as differences go, the XD was designed for Mt bikes, the RD for Road, the 75s are true fixed gear track cranks which is why they cost more. They're all good cranks and the only real difference is in how much you're willing to spend. I doubt anyone can tell the difference between all these sets or that one "Feels" better than another.

Which ones are cold forged?

They're all good cranks and the only real difference is in how much you're willing to spend.

Wrong. So very, very wrong.

Wrong. So very, very wrong.

And your contribution to this thread is . . . .??? :rolleyes:

Yes 75s are Keirin approved racing cranks and therefore are much stronger and reliable but I have yet to see someone break or ruin a set of cranks under normal operation because they generated so much torque that the require something of that quality. Anyone who isn't racing on a velodrome and buys 75s or better is doing it for the simple fact of adding unnecessary bling to their bike. . . .which is where my comment applies. Buy what you can afford and are willing to spend.

And your contribution to this thread is . . . .??? :rolleyes:

Yes 75s are Keirin approved racing cranks and therefore are much stronger and reliable but I have yet to see someone break or ruin a set of cranks under normal operation because they generated so much torque that the require something of that quality. Anyone who isn't racing on a velodrome and buys 75s or better is doing it for the simple fact of adding unnecessary bling to their bike. . . .which is where my comment applies. Buy what you can afford and are willing to spend.

So because you've never met anyone who broke a pair of cranks under "normal" conditions, whatever that means, there is no different between them? How about the fact that RDs generate slightly offset chainlines because they are basically converted road cranks? How about the added stiffness of having a 144bcd, or for that matter, one's choice of quality chainrings in 144 vs 130 or 110 bcd? How about the fact that they're all just VASTLY DIFFERENT?

I'm not saying that these are necessarily going to be differences everyone can feel, or need, or want, but to say the only difference between XDs, RDs and 75s is the price is simply ignorant.

Trying to simplify something is not ignorant. If all you know about these cranks is so important why not post what you just did now, instead of commenting with an insult. He's looking for opinions and that's what I gave him whether you wanted to go further from what I said its up to you but it really boils down to how much he's willing to spend and if he wants to spend the price of 75s when RDs do just as well.

I have my popcorn.

Jabba, if you read Tank's post again, he merely stated that the quality/feel of these cranks are basically the same under normal usage.

Well, he also said "They're all good cranks and the only real difference is in how much you're willing to spend." which is wrong, and which is the only part of his post I quoted, because it's the part I disagree with. If you take the word "real" out of there so we can avoid devolving into a "no true Scotsman" argument, it's nothing more or less than a patently false assertion.

I agree, most people won't notice much of a difference, but that doesn't mean the differences in quality aren't there to begin with.

I thought the Sugino XD was a road double crank with the smaller ring removed by Ben's not a MTB crank?

I thought the Sugino XD was a road double crank with the smaller ring removed by Ben's not a MTB crank?

XD is a road triple converted to single ring, RD is the road double with a single ring. Hence the 110 bcd on the XD to accomodate 3 rings, the 130 bcd on the double to accomodate 2, and 144bcd on the 75 and other track cranks because they only need to accomodate a single, large chainring.

XD Details:
Cold Forged crank arms
578 grams
110 bolt circle
Will accept a second chainring for use as a compact road double
Use with a 103mm square taper bottombracket
http://www.benscycle.net/bmz_cache/8/823d5f7da8ad54a5bbd6f6df10093828.image.900x598.jpg


RD Details:
Forged - 6061 aluminum arms
Comes with 1/8" standard chainring. Also available w/o chainring.
130mm BCD
Use with a 103 mm square taper bottombracket for a 45mm Chainline
http://www.benscycle.net/bmz_cache/c/c3bc0fe6489c1649ca16db751a778cff.image.700x524.jpg



RD Messenger (RD2) Details:
Forged - 6061 aluminum arms
Comes with 1/8" Messenger chainring. Also available w/o chainring.
130mm BCD
Use with a 103mm square taper bottombracket for a 45mm chainline
http://www.benscycle.net/bmz_cache/8/85e6ef68d695980dc276e70c058d00fb.image.900x598.jpg

RD/RD2/Messenger w/o Chainring (same cranks):
http://www.benscycle.net/bmz_cache/1/17204b03efb5c035938ec17f99fbdcf0.image.900x598.jpg


75 Details:
NJS
144bcd
Includes chainring bolts
Cold-Forged Aluminum Alloy for strength
Use with a 109-110mm bottombracket. Made in Japan.
http://www.benscycle.net/bmz_cache/b/b6cad846425d75ddd6a681d0ce5a31b0.image.700x525.jpg


75 Grand Mighty Details:
Ultra stiff Sugino Super Duralumin Alloy. NJS.
Spindle Interface Type: Square Taper JIS
Spindle Length: 109 mm
144 mm BCD
Crank/FD Type: Single Ring
Chain Compatibility: 1/2" x 1/8"
Pedal Spindle Thread: 9/16"
Made in Japan
http://www.benscycle.net/bmz_cache/1/14b81ce52ee30ed0e95661e3d9fd727b.image.700x524.jpg

You should just get the Sugino Grand Mighty's

XD Details:
Cold Forged crank arms
578 grams
110 bolt circle
Will accept a second chainring for use as a compact road double
Use with a 103mm square taper bottombracket

RD Details:
Forged - 6061 aluminum arms
Comes with 1/8" standard chainring. Also available w/o chainring.
130mm BCD
Use with a 103 mm square taper bottombracket for a 45mm Chainline

RD Messenger (RD2) Details:
Forged - 6061 aluminum arms
Comes with 1/8" Messenger chainring. Also available w/o chainring.
130mm BCD
Use with a 103mm square taper bottombracket for a 45mm chainline


RD/RD2/Messenger w/o Chainring (same cranks):
75 Details:
NJS
144bcd
Includes chainring bolts
Cold-Forged Aluminum Alloy for strength
Use with a 109-110mm bottombracket. Made in Japan.

75 Grand Mighty Details:
Ultra stiff Sugino Super Duralumin Alloy. NJS.
Spindle Interface Type: Square Taper JIS
Spindle Length: 109 mm
144 mm BCD
Crank/FD Type: Single Ring
Chain Compatibility: 1/2" x 1/8"
Pedal Spindle Thread: 9/16"
Made in Japan






This is exactly what I was looking for...thanks for the great summary.

XD=110BCD
RD=130BCD
75s=144BCD more expensive cause they're stronger and actually used in track racing.

RD Messenger is your basic RD cranks with a beefier chainring
RD2 Messenger is the same thing only it's sugino's new model name

As far as differences go, the XD was designed for Mt bikes, the RD for Road, the 75s are true fixed gear track cranks which is why they cost more. They're all good cranks and the only real difference is in how much you're willing to spend. I doubt anyone can tell the difference between all these sets or that one "Feels" better than another.

This is probably some of the worst advice I have ever seen on this forum.

If you can honestly tell me that when you ride XD cranks and then 75s that you feel no difference at all you have no reason being on a bike.

XD cranks flex a ridiculous amount compared to 75s. That is why their is such a price difference, its not just for bling factor jackass.

You are a strong son of a b***h if you can flex any aluminum crank arm in normal use.

jim

Side to side flex is rediculous on those XDs

This is probably some of the worst advice I have ever seen on this forum.

If you can honestly tell me that when you ride XD cranks and then 75s that you feel no difference at all you have no reason being on a bike.

XD cranks flex a ridiculous amount compared to 75s. That is why their is such a price difference, its not just for bling factor jackass.

HAHA, really how many bikes with XDs have you ridden? And how many with 75s? Flex will come from your frame's BB before your cranks. The difference of course is manufacturing quality but for street use there is no need for anyone to use 75s or better unless they just have the money to spend/waste.

HAHA, really how many bikes with XDs have you ridden? And how many with 75s? Flex will come from your frame's BB before your cranks. The difference of course is manufacturing quality but for street use there is no need for anyone to use 75s or better unless they just have the money to spend/waste.

Agreed if your just going to be commuting on the bike here and there then who cares, but if your putting some serious miles on the bike and want more power to go directly to the wheel use 75's over the rest.

XDs and RDs are road bike cranks so how could they not be used to put some "Serious Miles" as roadies do more so than the rest who ride fixed. It has absolutely nothing to do with efficiency, it would take a very sensitive testing computer to even tell you the differences between those cranks and how efficient they are so I doubt any rider could tell the difference. Slapping a high priced crank because its NJS approved will not make you a faster rider because of your perceived improved efficiency.

XDs and RDs are road bike cranks so how could they not be used to put some "Serious Miles" as roadies do more so than the rest who ride fixed. It has absolutely nothing to do with efficiency, it would take a very sensitive testing computer to even tell you the differences between those cranks and how efficient they are so I doubt any rider could tell the difference. Slapping a high priced crank because its NJS approved will not make you a faster rider because of your perceived improved efficiency.

agreed. but bling counts for so much these days, you know? some people can't just go by that alone...

Which ones are cold forged?

?????

I thought the Sugino XD was a road double crank with the smaller ring removed by Ben's not a MTB crank?The XD started out as a mountain triple but after a few years Sugino also released a double version. The XD "Track" is just a double with one ring.
This is probably some of the worst advice I have ever seen on this forum.

If you can honestly tell me that when you ride XD cranks and then 75s that you feel no difference at all you have no reason being on a bike.

XD cranks flex a ridiculous amount compared to 75s. That is why their is such a price difference, its not just for bling factor jackass.Tell the countless number of people who tour, fully loaded, using XD's that they are riding subpar cranks with too much flex and you'll probably get your ass handed to you by people who have a right to tell you that "you have no reason being on a bike". You're right that the price difference reflects more than just the "bling factor"(although the NJS certification certainly plays a big part in it!) but it has nothing to do with the flex you speak of - the 75's go through different forging, machining, and finishing processes than the XD's. I seriously doubt you can tell the difference unless you have the Six Million Dollar Man's legs. Granted chainring flex is more likely with a 110bcd but there's another even more likely possibility -
Stiffness is also a non-issue on most bikes since the frame flex will dwarf crank flex. While, AFAIK, this hasn't actually been proven, IMO what you're blaming on the crank is most likely actually the frame flexing. Think about it. A crank arm is a pretty stout piece of metal while your frame is a thin tube, steel or whatever it may be.
?????Go back and read RichPugh's post. The XD2(the original XD was not) and 75(as well as the Grand Mighty) are cold forged while the RD is only labeled as forged, which could mean cold forged or maybe not. Why don't you go straight to the source? http://www.suginoltd.co.jp/contact_us_e.html

Why should we go to the sourse when we have you?

unless youre comparing crank flex by riding the same frame but diff cranks within a 20 minute time frame, its moot. most of it will be placebo effect if you feel a difference on the same frame. frames flex so much compared to cranks that its damn hard to blame cranks first

Yeah but if you don't blame crank flex then you can't justify spending $300 on some blingin' NJS goodies now can you? :D Also your screen name scares me.

75 Grand Mighty Details:
Ultra stiff Sugino Super Duralumin Alloy. NJS.
Spindle Interface Type: Square Taper JIS
Spindle Length: 109 mm
144 mm BCD
Crank/FD Type: Single Ring
Chain Compatibility: 1/2" x 1/8"
Pedal Spindle Thread: 9/16"
Made in Japan

Don't the NJS cranks use ISO taper, not JIS?

Don't the NJS cranks use ISO taper, not JIS?

The 75 crankset is ISO, and according to Ben's the Grand Mighty is JIS. But it also says Sugino recommends using the 75 BB, which is ISO, with the GM.

I is confused.

don't forget about the Sugino Kyoto Loco

pixxture of them?

**clicky for picture**
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-3773699254952_2026_8526872

OH yeah i was looking at those on Soma's site, anyone used?

don't forget about the Sugino Kyoto Loco
The KyotoLOCO is nothing more than a (supposedly)limited anodized version of the RD/Messenger.

This is exactly what I was looking for...thanks for the great summary.

Wow I was wondering this exact question tonight. However I started a search on google first, expecting to do massive legwork to get the info out of these strange Japanese web sites that have been translated, and a million e-commerce sites that just quote the translated Japanese with no extra details.

Thanks for the awesome post RichPugh!

i have a thought. try running a 39tooth ring a 144bcd crank. lol.
sugino 75 is not best option for all people.