Cyclocross - Building cyclocross bike

I'm planning on building a cyclocross bike and have a budget of about £1k (I think about $1.8k, if stuff is only avaliable in the U.S. I'll be able to get it shipped over). I'll probably base it around a kinesis 4t because I hear it's a good quality entry level frame (although I have been considering getting a really nice frame and doing a single speed).

I really don't know what to build on to it though. I hear that tiagra stuff is good for cyclocorss because of mud shedding abilitys (and also it's pretty cheap). Is this true or are there better alternatives.

I'm probably going to have just one ring at the front because previously when I've ridden double bikes I never use the very top gears (I find it easier to just spin faster) or the very bottom gears (I find it easier to just power through), so I figure having the extra 2 rings is just adding pointless weight. Should I put bashguards either side and if so how would I go about constructing this. Do I start off with a triple and just replace the top and bottom rings with bash guards? If I'm doing this would it be better to try and get the crank arms and everything serperate so I don't waste money on chain rings I don't need?

Seat post is defiantly going to be carbon. Handlebars and stuff I can probably sort out for myself but if anyone has any recommendations they are very welcome.

Also what wheels would you recommend that would keep my bike inside that budget?

I'd like to save as much weight as possible whilst still keeping within my budget with this bike. I'd consider buying some of the stuff of ebay (nothing carbon, or the wheels, frame or saddle, just because I'd rather have those new so I'm certain of condition).

Any tips would be extremly useful if anyone else has built up their own cross bike (I know quite a few of you out there have).

Thanks in advance for any help (sorry it was a bit of a wall and lots of questions).

P.S. If anyone would like to recommend a different frame then please feel free but I'd idealy like to have 2 water bottle mounts and rear rack mounts.

What are you going to be using this bike for?

Why carbon seatpost?

This bike is going to be used for commuting, general on road/off road lesuire rides and cyclocross races.

Carbon seatpost because I'm turning into a bit of a weight weenie (when your as light as me it's the only way to go really) and it seems like the cheapest place to shed a few grams. Also from what i've heard it increases comfort.

WRT weight it's all about frame, fork, and wheels. IMO carbon post, stem, or bars for cross is a bad idea, but that's just me, based on an unscientific sample of busted gear I've witnessed at cross and mtb races.

For gruppo I'd go 105 or Ultegra.

I recommend a compact road double crank.

I run single ring, 42 x 12/27, with a Salsa crossing guard and N-gear Jumpstop.

My recommendation for wheels is to go with something modest right now (Open Pro/105, for example) and upgrade down the road. That will allow you to outfit the rest of the bike with quality stuff. If you blow too much on wheels, you'll have to really skimp on the rest of the bike. Remember that your concern is rotating weight (i.e. rims) and durability, not aerodynamics. So IMO a light alloy rim with 32 spokes (double-butted, alloy nipples) is the way to go. Other people will have different opinions.

Heres my nubbishness showing through - whats the difference between a compact and normal crank?

Also what do you do about levers? Do you have the intergrated ones on both sides and just have one being used purely as a brake lever?

If I put a bash guard either side (partly because I just think it would look nicer) would buying a triple and removing the inner and outer ring be the easiest way to do it?

Sorry, but I don't want to waste any money on this if possible so would like to get it right first time, and seeing as I don't have the knowledge to do that I'm asking lots of questions. Hope I don't become too much of a nuisance.

Heres my nubbishness showing through - whats the difference between a compact and normal crank?

Also what do you do about levers? Do you have the intergrated ones on both sides and just have one being used purely as a brake lever?

If I put a bash guard either side (partly because I just think it would look nicer) would buying a triple and removing the inner and outer ring be the easiest way to do it?

Sorry, but I don't want to waste any money on this if possible so would like to get it right first time, and seeing as I don't have the knowledge to do that I'm asking lots of questions. Hope I don't become too much of a nuisance.1. Compact crank has 110mm bolt center diameter, normal has 130mm. The smallest chainring you can get on normal crank is 39t (or 38t?), compact double is a more versatile choice.
2. I actually use a lever shifter with a Paul thumbie mount, but my wife uses STI on the right and a Tektro brake lever on the left. There's a slight mismatch in the shape, but it's apparently not an issue for her. Georgia Gould, among others, does the same thing. You can find single levers on eBay, significantly cheaper than buying the pair.
3. AFAIK they don't make bashguards to fit on the granny mounts of a triple. People who run double guards use a double crank with the inner guard on the inner position, the chainring on the outer, then spacers between the chainring and the outer guard. cyclocrossworld.com sells the correct bolts and spacers in a kit. Personally, I think it's better to have the chainring further in, so you have a straighter chainline while in the largest sprockets.

Kk, I'll get a compact double then. With getting the chainring further in, would it be possible to fit the ring on the inner one, bash guard on outer and then use spacers to get the other bashguard inside the inner? (hope you understood all that)

Just a few more questions, I have no clue about the differences between different headsets/bottom brackets. What would you recommend?

Also whats the difference between a shrot/med/long cage rear mech and which would work best for what I want.

1 last thing. Is the thing about tiagra being better for cross true, and would you recommend SRAM or campagnolo instead or is there really not much difference in cross performance between groupsets from the 3 main companies?

Thanks again for the help.

>> With getting the chainring further in, would it be possible to fit the ring on the inner one, bash guard on outer and then use spacers to get the other bashguard inside the inner?

You'd run into the chainstay. Same issue. Other people use double guards and seem happy with it, I was just stating my personal preference.

>> Just a few more questions, I have no clue about the differences between different headsets/bottom brackets. What would you recommend?

BB usually comes with the crankset. I use Cane Creek headsets, but others ought to be fine. More important to keep them adjusted correctly and occasionally clean and grease.

>> Also whats the difference between a shrot/med/long cage rear mech and which would work best for what I want.

You want the der to work with the largest cog you imagine using. So if you think you'll ever want to use a 32, get a der that will fit.

>> Is the thing about tiagra being better for cross true

No. It's based on the idea that since it's cheaper, it's easier to replace, which is wrong-headed IMO. My wife and I have been very pleased with Shimano 105, Ultegra, and Dura-Ace stuff. Can't vouch for or against Tiagra, but it seems to be aimed at the beginner/recreation market. My LBS wrench, whose opinion I value, used to be a strict Campy-only guy, but has now converted completely to SRAM and says it's the best. So . . . just be thankful that there are three gruppo companies out there keeping each other honest. My personal belief is that the mystique of Campag allows them to charge a bit more for their stuff than its worth.

There's some talk that 8 or 9 speed is better for off-road than 10 speed, because of the relatively larger cog spacing. Personally, I think it's a crock. I don't think the cluster is where you run into mud issues. If anything, the thing to worry about is crud getting into your cables, in which case the solution is to run a housing the entire length of the wire (which requires messing with the cable stops on most frames).

Do you have any recommendations for other possible frames? Like I said, I'm gona be a weight weenie with this one and you mentioned the frame wheels and fork is where all the weight is. The kinesis comes in at 1.7kg for the 54cm (my size), but I really don't know how this compares.

I did go to one of my LBS for advice but was a bit doubtful, partly because all their stuff seemed a bit costly and partly because they were pertty certain I wasn't going to get a decent cross bike for much under 24lbs.

Do you have any recommendations for other possible frames? Like I said, I'm gona be a weight weenie with this one and you mentioned the frame wheels and fork is where all the weight is. The kinesis comes in at 1.7kg for the 54cm (my size), but I really don't know how this compares.

I did go to one of my LBS for advice but was a bit doubtful, partly because all their stuff seemed a bit costly and partly because they were pertty certain I wasn't going to get a decent cross bike for much under 24lbs.My source says 54cm frame is 1560g:
http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsP566.aspx
Which to me seems plenty light. I think the matching fork is in the 600g range, you can get under 500g with a full carbon fork like Origin8 or others.

The kinesis website (http://kinesisbikes.co.uk/geometry/4t.jpg) says 1.7kg.

I'm wondering if I skimp around for bargins on ebay what frame I'll be able to afford. Once you get past that price point is it possible to get frames with rack eyelets or would I have to use clamps/seat post rack (I'm probably never going to have more than 3kg on the rack so I suppose I could probably get away with it quite easily). I think I would definatly like 2 water bottle mounts though (1 absolute minimum but it would have to be a darn good frame) and alot of the better frames don't seem to have any at all.

Thanks for the speedy replies.

I quite like the look of the ridley crossbow actually, may have to look into it. I suppose everything is going to be within 500g of each other.

Do you have any recommendations for other possible frames? Like I said, I'm gona be a weight weenie with this one and you mentioned the frame wheels and fork is where all the weight is. The kinesis comes in at 1.7kg for the 54cm (my size), but I really don't know how this compares.

I did go to one of my LBS for advice but was a bit doubtful, partly because all their stuff seemed a bit costly and partly because they were pertty certain I wasn't going to get a decent cross bike for much under 24lbs.

A cyclocross bike isn't a good choice to be a weight weenie on. You want durability above all else...forget the weight weenie crap. Buy good solid, proven parts and enjoy.

It's not hard to build a cross bike below 20 lbs, but you have to be mindful of every component you hang on it. Especially with the fairly portly Kinesis frameset. When you think about it, a cross bike is about the same as a road bike. The only real difference is tires, tubes and brakes.

I'm only a tad over 50kg (110 pounds), so the strength and durabilty stuff isn't a huge concern to me.

The kinesis frame does seem a bit bulky. Atm I've got an ~8.2kg (18 pounds) theorectical build, which will cost a tad under £800 if I buy some new and some from ebay. Am I likely to get any lighter or cheaper. I may scourge around ebay a bit more for a while (have some spare time soon). What frame would you recommend?

Can you list your 18 lb build with this 3.8 lb frame? I've got a 18.5 lb cross bike (in road configuration), but it has a 3.3 lb frame and sub 1500g wheels with road tires to get it there. With cross wheels/tires, it's 19.5.

If indeed it is 18 lbs, then you've done a good job. I wouldn't go much lighter, especially if you race it. You'll just break stuff.

Now is probably going to be the point when I find out I've looked at stuff completely unsuitable for cross and have added up the weight wrong, but here goes.

Bar tape - Cinelli Gel Ribbon
Brake Cables - Campagnolo Brake cable set
Brakes - Tektro CR720 Cantilever
Cassette - Campagnolo Veloce 10 speed
Chain - Campagnolo ultra thin
Chainset - FSA MegaExo
Frame - Kinesis 4t
Forks - Kinesis Crosslight Pro Carbon
Gear Cables - Campagnolo Ergopower cable set
Gear Levers - Campagnolo Carbon Centaur Ergopower
Handlebars - Easton EA70
Headset - FSA XLII
Inner Tubes - Nutrak Inner tube
Rear Derailluer - Campagnolo Centaur 10 speed
Saddle - Specialized BG Avatar gel saddle
Seat Post - Ritchey Pro V2 seatpost
Stem - Raceface Candence
Tyres - Continental Twister
Wheels - Fulcrum Racing 7

It actually comes to about 8.4kg I think (18.5 pounds)

Like I said, I'm a complete nub to building bikes so have probably missed something and please tell me if I have.

I still can't decide on what frame I want though. The kinesis is starting to seem more and more weighty the more frames I look at.

Also do you think It would be wise to buy a complete bike off ebay and strip off the parts I want then just stick them on a frame of my choice?

I think you're probably looking at published weights, and not actual weight. Nothing you've listed screams lightweight, so I'd bet it's closer to 20+ lbs. Like I said before, mine's all 9 speed Dura Ace with mostly lighter components and frame than what you've listed and mine is 19.5.

Go to weightweenies.starbike.com (http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings.php) and look at true weights.

Just pulling out a few randowm numbers, the most anything seems to be out by on my build is ~5%, with most being less than 2%, which would still mean only a 19-19.5 pound weight (1 thing I checked is actually lighter than listed). Quite a few things seem to be missing of fthat site though so I can't check it all.

There aren't any parts that a bike needs that I haven't accounted for though are there?

Your build seems quite smart.
- Campagnolo parts are very cheap in the UK versus the USA. Buy from Ribble or Merlin etc.
- Carbon seat posts for cross are a bad idea due to mounting/remounting. I'd get a light aluminium one instead.
- Zepnat and Paul Milnes Cycles are UK based cross specialists. They both sell their own framesets, as well as Alan. Sonic Cycles sells Intec/Fort frames.
- If you're serious about saving weight, ditch the Nutrak tubes for Michelins or similar. Nutrak tubes tend to be pretty thick in my experience.
- I'd recommend going with the Campagnolo chainset rather than an FSA one. If you buy a groupset (this is usually cheaper than buying individual components) you'll get on with the group anyway. You can use a suitable TA or Stronglight ring to get you a nice set up with the lower gear you want (eg 34-44 or 36-46).
- I don't think you would be able to build it with Rival within your allotted budget, but I can't think of any bargain basement sources in the UK. You might be able to do Veloce, 105 or Centaur if you shop well.

If I bought it as a groupset and sold the unwanted parts on ebay I could probablyquite easily get rival under my budget. I've never tried it though. I geuss I need to find a bike fitted with equivilent level from each of the 3 and try them all out. I think this may sound easier than it is.

Does all campag groupsets have the inner lever for shifting one way and the thumb lever on the inside of the hood for shifting the other? If so I think I may automatically cross of campag.

I do quite like the sound of SRAM double tap but I've never used to before so it's the whole leap of faith thing.

I've still go to decide on a frame though (I'd rather go for a more well known one, I'm sure the intec frame on that website is good, but I can't find any reviews and I'm not into buying stuff completely blind). I'd love a kuota kross but the frame along would take up all my budget.

I think the absolute maximum I can afford to spend on frame and forks is £400, any recommendations?

All Campagnolo parts have the thumb shifter. If you doubt the power of the thumb shifter to change lives, you really ought not to be considering building a cross bike at all. You need a 3 speed ;)

Thumb shifters make me cry.

At least I know I can now cross campag off my list though.

So that means the 2 best groupsets that will squidge into my budget are ultegra (will prob get 105 in that case and spend the money else where) or SRAM rival.

Any other ideas for a frame?

Thanks for the info.

I think most of the links I supplied were for frames in the 1500g range. I don't think you will find much lighter for your budget. Paul Milnes has the Columbus X-Wing. That might be. You'd have to call them.
http://www.paulmilnescycles.com/cross.htm
http://www.zepnat.com/component/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,48/page,shop.browse/category_id,61/

I guess you might get lucky and find a Salsa Chilli Con Cross or Kona Major Jake in your size for a good price.
One of my local shops back home had some nice Viner frames last year. You could try them.
http://www.epic-cycles.co.uk/

You could try Fat Birds too. They have Kinesis and Guerciotti frames in your price range.
http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/store.asp/d=3/c=43

Enjoy!

FWIW, Rival has one definite advantage over 105 for Cross racing... when it's cold, you can wear lobster gloves, or even full mittens and still shift just fine. Try that with 105 and you'll be fumbling for upshifts all day.

NOTE: I raced 105 this year, and on the coldest days, I suffered w/ thinner gloves than I would have preferred.

What about the mid road Ridley frame with full carbon fork? That is probably pretty light and I think cyclocrossworld had a sale on them. Hopefully they are cheap in Europe. Van Dessel Hole Shot is also a nice frame, but not extraordinarily light. Salsa Con Crosso or the Pedal force CX1 might be the lightest, but they might be budget breakers

Ok, I think I've narrowed it down to either a kinesis pro 5 or 4t with SRAM rival set, and then cheapish finishing components (probably low end easton) and wheels (any recommendations). I decided on kinesis because a) one of my LBS stocks them, b) I've heard pretty much all positive stuff about them.

The one main negative thing is what I found when I tried a tricross, and that is they have flattened the bottom of the top tube too much, so the corner digs in. On the kinesis though it is more of a cutout rather them a completely weirdly shaped tube, so I'll probably shape a bit of foam to go in there.

Overall if I buy everything from my LBS (probably will because I like suporting independant businesses) it will come to about £900, which tbh I'm quite pleased with for a custom built bike (even if all the components aren't the best out there). I suppose having cheap finishing kit means I won't waste as much money when it comes to upgrading it :).

All I've got to do is decide between frames. The pro 5 costs £75 more and I would have to use funny bottle attachements and a seatpost rack, but it is nearly 200g lighter. I suppose it would probably be easier to use a different fork and save the weight that way... anyone know any good, cheap, carbon forks with mudguard eyelets (I know, something the pro fork doesn't have but something I would like)

How about this one? ITM Visia
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/productdetail.asp?productcatalogue=ITALFORS200

If I use sram shifters (which I think I've decided to do for the time being) would they work with a mtb derailleur because I'm wondering if I could possibly do with a slightly larger range at the back. For various reasons I want to stick with a single ring at the front but have a bit larger range than a 11-28 would offer, it may turn out that for alot of the riding I do I won't need the very top or bottom gear still but it would be nice to have for the few monsterous hills around.

Bascially though is it possible to have road shifters with mtb cassette and I geuss therefore mtb rear derailleur.

No; Sram road shifters don't work with Sram mtb derailleurs. Shimano road shifters do work with Shimano mtb derailleurs. You could also use Campagnolo shifters (which are cheap) with a JTEK shiftmate and run Shimano derailleurs.

I think you will find that a double ring set up is more reliable though.

Why would it be less reliable? I always though that one of the main purposes of doing a single ring for cross was that it can be more reliable.

Tbh one of the main reasons for me wanting to do it is because I hate when hill climbing, having to change down a ring and then move up 4 at the back, the shifting is just to much hassle and makes me loose my concentration/rhythm. People are probably now going to tell me that this is something that I just need to practise, but you can't honestly say it wouldn't be easier to just have evenly spaced gears with 1 shifter.

Also, can someone clarify something for me. With SRAM levers, it says that with a longer sweep you can downshift multiple gears at once. Does this means moving down the cassette onto a smaller cog or moving up the cassette (but by my way of thinking down the gears) onto a larger cog. If it's the first I may try them with a double ring because if all it takes is 1 knock on each to put my on the lower ring but only 1 gear lower than previous than it's something I would be more inclined to get used to.

I'd much rather not use campy shifters because I just don't get on with the thumb lever so if shimano is the only other option for a large cassette single ring setup I geuss that's the way I'll have to go.

Thanks for all the help so far.

I would recommend against a Campagnolo Crank. Reason is they use a proprietary BCD so you can readily get chainrings in sizes you want. On the road, yes definitely use Campy because you rarely get anything other than standard combos and it shifts better.

Stick with an FSA and get the cross versions with the 46/36 ring combo.

For cross, I avoid using carbon bars, stems, seatposts carbon railed saddles. These items get a lot of abuse and may break. Not that aluminum won't break either, but its a lot cheaper to replace.

I'd much rather not use campy shifters because I just don't get on with the thumb lever

When you get used to Campy, you'll never want to go back to Shimano. They're actually more intuitive than Shimano to shift. Just to remember to move your hand in the direction you want the chain to move. Campy has a larger thumb lever than Sora and is easier to manipulate from the drops. I have an extremely small hand and can easily shift from the drops with my Campy brifters. If you don't give them a try you'll never know. Buy a set of pre 2006 Centaur and below or any year Chorus/Record so you can shift the entire cassette in one motion. Try that with Shimano. Good luck on whatever you choose.

Can you shift the whole cassette in either direction?

I've been thinking I may just go with a flat bar, I don't really need the drops in all fairness and have never had any discomfort over long rides with a flat bar bike.

Can you shift the whole cassette in either direction?

Yes you can. Though I can't really see any reason to be able to dump 10 gears at once. It has to throw your cadence off with that big a change.

I was thinking more of moving down a ring and going through 5 gears at once so it doesn't take as long to get back to where I was before (assuming I decide to not use a single ring).

Aagh. I hate making desicions. I wish I could try everything for a week and then decide. I think flatbar will be cheaper and more what I want for the moment though. I suppose if I don't like it I can change over to drops and put the mtb stuff towards my other project so I won't make a loss, if I start with road bars then go flat though I'll make a bigger loss. Wott, looks like I've just answered my own question.

Thanks for all the help guys.

check out http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wheels.html

for cheap strong good light wheels

No; Sram road shifters don't work with Sram mtb derailleurs. Shimano road shifters do work with Shimano mtb derailleurs. You could also use Campagnolo shifters (which are cheap) with a JTEK shiftmate and run Shimano derailleurs.

I think you will find that a double ring set up is more reliable though.

What about SRAM brifters with a Shimano rear der? They are compatible out of the box. Either a road triple or MTB would work. Shimano rear ders are usually dirt cheap on ebay.

What about SRAM brifters with a Shimano rear der? They are compatible out of the box. SRAM road shifters are not compatible with Shimano rear derailleurs, even though the cassette spacing is the same. The rear ders require different amounts of cable pull, you have to match shifter to rear der or use some sort of converter:
http://jtekengineering.com/products.htm

Also, can someone clarify something for me. With SRAM levers, it says that with a longer sweep you can downshift multiple gears at once. Does this means moving down the cassette onto a smaller cog or moving up the cassette (but by my way of thinking down the gears) onto a larger cog. If it's the first I may try them with a double ring because if all it takes is 1 knock on each to put my on the lower ring but only 1 gear lower than previous than it's something I would be more inclined to get used to.


With Double Tap, you can shift down (to larger cogs) multiple gears in one motion (4 gears at a time IIRC so o it takes, at most, 3 downshifts to get to your lowest gear), but you can only upshift (to smaller cogs) one gear at a time.

If you run a single ring, you will also need bash guards and jump stops/dog fangs etc to stop the chain from dropping. By this time, you might as well be running two rings.

Campagnolo cranks are excellent and good value. I would buy one and take advantage of the ready availability of TA and Stronglight chainrings in the UK to obtain whatever combination I was after.

i run the campy>jtek>shimano mtn combo, it works fine. I like the campy thumb lever because of the cassette dumping ability, and that i can shift either direction from the drops. .

in regards to the sram question, it is moving up the cassette to the larger cogs.

also if you are doing single ring and involving compact cranks, keep i n mind that campy compact cranks have a nonstandard 110 bcd. While my TA chainring went on fine, the weizkom bash guard did not, and involved me filing out one of the holes to accommodate the stupid bolt that threads into the back of the spider.