General Cycling Discussion - Amtrak has taken a definate "anti cycling" stance.

On a recent Oceanside brunch ride OCRR found itself at the mercy of the latest Amtrak set of rules designed to make it unworkable for cyclist to make use of the Amtrak trains.

Eight OCRR riders found themselves in Oceanside waiting for the 12:49 train back to Irvine. The train arrived with no less than 6 cars and a baggage car. We were informed that only one (1) car had bicycle hooks limiting us to 3 bicycles. The Amtrak conductors REFUSED to open or even consider opening the baggage car citing a recent Amtrak Baggage committee policy of not loading bicycles in baggage cars. The ticket personal did make known that if we were willing to pay $20.00 per bicycle we could load our bicycles in the baggage car. The attitude of the train crew was arrogant and indifferent at best.

The ticket personal took that position that "its not my job" and they could have cared less.

As a result, 2 of us rode back to Orange County and 3 waited for later trains or Metrolink.

It is oblivious that Amtrak has become anti cycling and is doing nothing to encourage the use of their trains by the cycling community.

As a result of this, OCRR will no longer plan rides that depend on Amtrak as the mode of return.

So riders beware. Amtrak does not like cyclists. Use it at your peril.

I'm wondering if there might be a certain engineer/conductor (whatever the name for the guy in charge on the train is) on that route that has a dislike for bikes. A group of around 15 us were turned away from boarding a train in Solana Beach about a year ago. One of the ride organizers called ahead of time to confirm we would be allowed on and everything was ok.... until we went to board the train. The ticketers and baggage handlers were very helpful, but the engineer wouldn't let us on. The train was obviously very underloaded and we were going from Solana Beach to Anaheim so it likely wouldn't be filling up in that distance. Ultimately he didn't let us on and we had to wait for the next train whos engineer was much more helpful. They do only have so much space alotted for bikes, but the engineer the 2nd train was cool with us storing them in general storage as long as we were cool with the possibility that the bikes would get knocked around a bit. It might be worth contacting Amtrak about this and the Pacific Surfliner route in specific.

I've heard a lot of positive bike stores about Amtrak so I'm optimistic.

It is oblivious that Amtrak has become anti cycling and is doing nothing to encourage the use of their trains by the cycling community.




is it now?





well, yeah - obliviously so

AdamD..that will have been the conductor. Engineer runs the train and could care less about what is loaded on it.:p

Hey at least you guys have cars with bike facilities...the ones I ride in the SE the only way a bike gets on board is either a folder or boxed in the baggage car. Amtrak is going to need to clean up it's act in the very near future, but then again they may not have too because they are the only game in town for long haul passenger service.:(

Aaron:)

If you check their website, it tells you which stations will allow you to load and unload bicycles. Did you check their website before the ride?

How is this suprising? People who don't ride bikes view people who ride bikes as either

1) poor
2) beneath them

I was once refused access to the public subway during hours where it was explicitly stated in their policy that they were allowed - why? Probably because the ticket collector didn't like how I looked. Instead he simply made up his own policy.

In the end I ended up reciting word by word the exact time bicycles are allowed on the subway. I should've added some nasty remark at the end, but I didn't - and then proceeded to track level.

So riders beware. Amtrak does not like cyclists. Use it at your peril.

Amtrak never said anything to me when I take my folder. Seriously, I never had a problem and the conductor said nothing since the bike was in a bag. You might want to get a Bike Friday or some other folding bike because Amtrak's anti-bike rules are ONLY for full size non-folding bikes.

In fact, Amtrak's rules for folders are quite friendly.

IME Amtrak doesn't much like any of their passengers. Pity. I like well operated RR's.

Subsidy

If a company can’t make money doing what they do, the government shouldn’t pay them to do it poorly…

I once asked an Amtrak ticket clerk how much it would cost to go to Jacksonville Florida, with my bike.
She told me $86.00, but I would have to put my bike on another train, which would take the bike to Orlando, and they would send the bike back to Jacksonville on a BUS.
I said I wasn't interested at that point. The ticket clerk said she alrerady printed the ticket and I would have to pay a twenty dollar "Cancellation Fee". I walked away without paying.

folding bike! Dahon-Steve: Where do you put your folded and bagged bike on Amtrak--in the racks above the seats or in the in-car luggage rack at the front of the car (not all cars have these racks)?

Subsidy

If a company can’t make money doing what they do, the government shouldn’t pay them to do it poorly…

Need to stop subsidies for cars too...

Aaron:)

folding bike! Dahon-Steve: Where do you put your folded and bagged bike on Amtrak--in the racks above the seats or in the in-car luggage rack at the front of the car (not all cars have these racks)?

I have put them in the overhead rack, in the storage space at the end of the car (rack or not) and I suppose in a pinch you could put it under your feet. My experience with Amtrak has pretty much been limited to the Palmeto and the Silver Meteor/Star. They are the only two that service my area. We don't have any cars with bike hooks and if bikes go in the baggage car they need to be boxed. Which I have done a couple of times.

Aaron:)

Subsidy

If a company can’t make money doing what they do, the government shouldn’t pay them to do it poorly…

It didn't help passenger rail any that the government was subsidizing highway and airport infrastructure projects for much larger amounts than what it was receiving. Even the attempt to relieve rail lines from the "burden" of passenger service wasn't expected to last long, so it's no real surprise that it was so poorly conceived from the very start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak#Rail_Passenger_Service_Act

Subsidy

If a company can’t make money doing what they do, the government shouldn’t pay them to do it poorly…

:thumb:

The title of this thread is overly broad. While it sounds like the Southern California train (I assume you're talking about the Pacific Surfliner?) doesn't like bikes, the Capitol Corridor in Northern California goes out of its way to accommodate bikes.

I ride the Capitol Corridor with my bike daily as part of my multimodal commute. There's no baggage car on this line, and each coach car has hanging space for three bikes. In addition, you can bungee a bike wherever you can make it work, and even fold up the wheelchair seats on the bottom level to cram bikes in there. Some of the newer coaches now have a dedicated bike car. (http://bikecommutetips.blogspot.com/2008/10/amtraks-capitol-corridor-adds-bicycle.html)

I don't mean to defend Amtrak or the specific trains/conductors the OP had to deal with, but clearly this is not a systemwide policy. Who operates the Surfliner? Best bet is to contact them and communicate the concerns. In the Bay Area, bike-riding commuters are a big part of the success of the Capitol Corridor.

Wow, how cool is that. We could kill for something like that on the west coast. Amtrak out here considers cyclists as a "necessary evil" and goes out of their way to make it difficult to take our bikes anywhere within their system. When a train pulls in with 6 cars and only 1 car has 3 bike hooks, that is a very sad state of affairs.

Capitol Corridor is on the West Coast -- it goes from Sacramento to San Jose. :)

Of course its bass ackwards and makes no sense. They're from the government and there here to help, whether you like it or not, so shut up and pay your taxes...

Wow, how cool is that. We could kill for something like that on the west coast. Amtrak out here considers cyclists as a "necessary evil" and goes out of their way to make it difficult to take our bikes anywhere within their system. When a train pulls in with 6 cars and only 1 car has 3 bike hooks, that is a very sad state of affairs.

Back in 2000 (last time I road Amtrak from San Diego to the OC) the Pacific Surfliner staff used to be very accomodating of bicyclists on the weekends - bring a few bungee cords or tiedown straps and you could store your bike anywhere it was feasable in the rear car. They were pretty restrictive on weekdays, but that was to be expected with the heavy M-F commuter traffic. Things must have changed since then.

It didn't help passenger rail any that the government was subsidizing highway and airport infrastructure projects for much larger amounts than what it was receiving. Even the attempt to relieve rail lines from the "burden" of passenger service wasn't expected to last long, so it's no real surprise that it was so poorly conceived from the very start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak#Rail_Passenger_Service_Act

Even more than that it did not help that the rail lines were run by stubborn idiots(A problem with all captains of industry, see: US automaker troubles). If those guys had been forward thinking we would be taking the train everywhere and flying Pullman and Penn.

Subsidy

If a company can’t make money doing what they do, the government shouldn’t pay them to do it poorly…


You hear that 3 big major auto companies?

I agree 100%.

The policy is no bikes in the baggage car, but for $20 a bike they'll allow it? Sounds like someone is running a scam.

put your bike in a bike bag.

that's how the Japanese do it. It's not a bike. It's your luggage.

Link to Amtrak bicycle policies for those interested.

Bring Your Bicycle Onboard (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=am2Copy&pagename=Amtrak%2Fam2Copy%2FSimple_Copy_Page&cid=1080080554487)

Just a few ideas.

First, I can't speak to the 3 hook problem because I don't live in Southern Cal. However, I believe only one PSL (Pacific Surfliner) has a baggage car; and I believe for that reason, the bike policy is somewhat different than the other PSL's.

As far as the baggage car is concerned, IF the station has baggage service, then bicycles can be checked in a BOX for $5. You can use your own box or purchase a huge one from Amtrak for $15. However, I think the gotcha here is that baggage must be checked 30 minutes prior to departure. There are good reasons for this, some obvious and others not so obvious.

It is the station personnel who handles the checked baggage, including bikes. The conductor or assistant conductor will unlock the baggage car; but would never take baggage from a customer on the platform and put it in the baggage car, never has and unlikely ever will, again for good reasons, most not obvious. There has been no company change to implement an anti-bike policy. Of course, it would be nice if Amtrak was like European railroads regarding bikes (and a lot of other things). But Amtrak operates under severe political and financial limitations. Did you know that all baggage cars are over 60 years old; and they have a lot of trouble keeping them on the rails?

I can sympathize with the frustration of not being able to just appear on the platform with your bike, because that would be a nice service. However, a little planning and knowledge could have avoided problems like this. As several people have mentioned, the bike policy is actually pretty clear. It along with which trains have baggage cars and which stations have baggage service can all be found on the website.

The above being said, not all Amtrak personnel know and follow the published policy, bikes or otherwise, for two reasons: 1) lack of training or poor communication, and 2) laziness. If you know the rules; and a conductor, assistant conductor, or service staff (e.g., snack bar attendant) violates it and it causes a non-trivial problem, contact Amtrak CUSTOMER RELATIONS (call 1-800-USA_RAIL and ask for them). The first thing they will ask you is did you get the employee's name. If the problem was serious and you persist, they might even give you a voucher for free future travel. Of course, it you are really PO'd, this will be worthless. But give it a chance and your experience may be exactly the opposite the next time.

Having travelled over 110,000 miles on Amtrak, almost always with a bike, my experience has been, that for every employee who breaks the rules in their favor (to save them work, perhaps), several others will break them in your favor. For example, not long ago I saw a couple unload a tandem at Cumberland, MD, from a coach. Very much against the rules. When I recently boarded a Missouri Service train with a bicycle without the required reservation and ticket, the conductor sold me one anyway. He also had me put it in the overhead rack, very much agains the rules.

In the past several years, Amtrak's Downeaster has operated from Boston, MA to Portland ME, making stops at many towns along the way. Bicyclists can easily roll their bikes onto the train with then and place them in specific areas where there is extra space. But this only works for bicyclists who are traveling from Boston and Portland. This isn't allowed at the other stations the train stops at. How inconvienient.