Classic & Vintage - Kool Stop Replacement Pad Advice for Suntour Superbe Brakes
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11-24-08, 09:20 PM
Hi, I'm thinking about putting some Kool Stop salomon pads on my Suntour Superbe brakes for better wet braking. Any advice on which Kool Stop pads would fit best:
Pics of my front brake and fork:
If you think the Campagnolo Nuovo Record pads are an option, how do I replace the pad in the holder?, e.g. bend the sides of the holder up
I have Superbe Pro brakes and run with knock-offs of the Shimano Ultegra/DA holders (mine were branded Jagwire but appear similar to the Tektros on Sheldon's site) with the Kool Stop salmon Ultegra/DA refills ("BRK25"). It doesn't look stock but they work great.
11-24-08, 11:02 PM
If you want the same style and shape, the continental it is for you. http://www.koolstop.com/brakes/continental.gif
Although I've heard you can get better braking from some of the other pads, just in terms of contact with the rim.
11-25-08, 01:58 AM
These are great pads but before you rush out and buy some, consider whether they will fit your holders and also what you will need to do to replace the existing pads.
First of all, measure the length of your existing pads.
The Kool-Stop replacement pads are 40 mm long. These are great pads and the black ones look just like the original Campy N/R or S/R pads, except on close examination. They were in fact intended as replacements for the early (1960s-80s) Campagnolo pads.
However ... your holders appear to have both ends closed rather than one end open like old Campy. Still, I have also used those pads even on old Weinmann holders (with all 4 sides closed) when I could not quickly get suitable (and cheaper) copies of Weinmann pads complete with new holders. Those Weinmann "X-style" pads from the 1970s through 1990s measured 38 mm long, but the additional 2 mm length I did not consider a big deal and was certainly barely noticeable at all on the bike.
So, if these pads are the same length as your existing pads, or close enough for you to use... this is what I did on my holders to modify them to accept replacement pads:
1.) You can just push the old pads out by inserting a thin flat screwdriver blade into one end of the holder and then pushing (prying) the old pad upward and out.
2.) Since both ends of the holder will still be closed after removal of the old pad, you would need to firmly grip one end with a narrow jaw pliers (or a small cheap 5" long "vise-grip" plier works very nicely). Bend the end down to open up the holder. Personally, I just rocked the end repeatedly back an forth along the natural bend and let rapid metal fatigue quickly break the end at the elbow already formed from the original closure bend.
3.) To "finish" the now cleanly broken off but sharp or jagged end, I just used a simple 6" file. A few passes smoothed the edges of the open end quite nicely. I now had a holder suited to accepting future replacement pads.
4.) Then you can just slide the new pad in by pressing it along the channel of the holder from the open end. ~ A little grease rubbed on the part of the new pad which will be concealed inside the holder will help ease the naturally grippy rubber of the new pad into the holder.
I have also used these pads on Mafac holders, and also old Universal holders. They really work fine on a number of older brake pad holders. And they look a lot more natural and less distracting than the long high-tech modern pads.
Here is a very cheap pair of generic holders which had badly worn pads but happened to be a good length for these Kool-Stop pads. A quick and easy modification... and not bad looking at all.
[Excuse the quickie kitchen counter top photo...] :rolleyes:
11-25-08, 06:31 AM
I've done similar as Strong up there but I didn't break off the tab. I wedged it open with a blade, inserted the pad, and then bent it closed and secure by placing the whole shoe vertically between the platforms of a wood clamp, and slowly screwed the clamp tighter.
The problem I found was that the Dia Compe shoes I was putting the Kool Stops in have an fingernail-sized plate that is the anchor for the threaded post. Without gouging out a channel on the backside of the Kool-Stop, it was bowed out on the braking surface of the pad. This wore down flat quickly but I'm not positive how secure it is.
Also - if you break off the tab to insert the pad, wouldn't you have to make doubly-sure that you have the end WITH the tab facing correctly with the corresponding wheel rotation - or I'd think the spin would slowly remove the pad for you. Messy. Could be wrong though.
11-25-08, 09:38 AM
" ... if you break off the tab to insert the pad, wouldn't you have to make doubly-sure that you have the end WITH the tab facing correctly with the corresponding wheel rotation - or I'd think the spin would slowly remove the pad for you. Messy. Could be wrong though.
Very true! However, there were literally decades when ALL holders were simply produced with one end left open. The idea of closed holders was really a more recent evolution. I never heard of any accidents from classic Campy or Mafac holders being installed the reverse of how they should be placed... but perhaps a personal injury law suit (in California, no doubt) had inspired manufacturers to modify the designs. :rolleyes:
There was a period from the late 70s to mid 1980s when Shimano's holders were all fairly simple, and still had a tall profile, but were not made for replaceable pads. I wonder whether competition from after-market brake pad companies (such as Kool-Stop) which began making reusable holders for their own pads had gradually prompted the folks like Shimano to make re-usable holders and their own replacement pads, too.
By the late 1980s, the rather modern style holders for my Dura-Ace 7400 brakes had an open end... a decade later, the still similar Shimano holders (and copies from Tektro, etc.) had begun using small set-screws to hold the pads. Perhaps there was a greater issue with the slimmer profile rubber pad holders losing the pads? - On these more streamlined holders it is truly less evident at a glance which end is actually the open side.
I suspect the most simple style of closed holders for earlier brakes were just intended to force the consumer to buy a more expensive complete replacement pad & holder set. For example, the early 1970s Weinmann holders (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/3009162085_5aca7886db_o.jpg) were all open, and inexpensive insert pads were common in any bike shop... but, by the late 70s their holders were closed and of their replacement rubber pads alone were already becoming difficult to find. There was also an interim variant (which I mainly remember seeing on juvenile bikes from Schwinn) which had a "safety sleeve" (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/3009999206_ecd5d2f1e9_o.jpg) to prevent the pads from ever pulling out if anyone had placed them incorrectly on a caliper... but I wonder if this had ever been a realistic concern. Or, was this just another example of overprotective CPSC or Schwinn paranoia?
It would be very interesting to conclusively trace the actual chronology of it all... even within a single manufacturer's designs. :)
11-25-08, 11:40 AM
thanks all for the great insights and advice!
11-25-08, 03:23 PM
The Continentals are getting very hard to find. I bought my last ones from Harris.
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