Classic & Vintage - What do I have here? PICS

So my brother-in-law tells me he picked up a bike to make a single speed out of. Cool. Asked me to come over and help out. I get there just as he is about to take a hacksaw to the cable guides on the top tube. I tell him to put the saw down, and that there are far better/safer/humane means to remove them. I start giving the bike a once over, and immediately discount the frame as a conversion based on the vertical dropouts. Then notice they are Campy to boot. At this point the frame was under 3 coats of brushed on paint, registration stickers, and cheap vinyl lettering on the down tube spelling Mondia.

Long story long, I purchased the bike from him and helped him get into a proper conversion. Then I started doing some research trying to figure out what it was. I am fairly certain it is not a Mondia, but not crap either. The base paint was gone, so I had it soda blasted. I've never had plans to keep it as it's too big, but I would like to be able to pass it on knowing what it is. Here is what I know, and other help would be great!

Fork ends and drops are Campy.
Bottom bracket threading is english.
Headtube lugs have "B M" stamped in them.
Serial number.
It is also deceptively light.
54.5 seat tube c-c 56 top tube c-c

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/3058772139_70bb93e3e8_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/3059608524_54df7ec755.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/3059608822_3579185d5d.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/3059608660_298d0f0ac6.jpg

what are those stamps on the front of the head tube lugs?

The seat stay caps and number stamped there say Mondia to me, not sure they used the vertical dropouts, but anything is possible...

I think that with the vinyl on the down tube, and the serial number on the left seat stay cap, it's safe to assume that it's a Mondia. Do a search here, and you may be able to identify the model.

No chrome anywhere?

what are those stamps on the front of the head tube lugs?

Looks like Bocoma lugs?

Mondia, swiss maker, good bikes, a couple of members here have nice examples. That's some deep engraving of the serial number (?) on the seat stays. Thank you for rescuing it from the hacksaw!

Mondia, swiss maker, good bikes, a couple of members here have nice examples. That's some deep engraving of the serial number (?) on the seat stays. Thank you for rescuing it from the hacksaw!


as cuda2k states . there are a couple memebers her eon the boards who have fine examples.
nice size . should not be a problem to move out .
Cheers
T

and yes , we dont need another DREW bike in this world .
to clarify drew bike .
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3282/3028614056_cac63099ac_o.jpg

Cheers
T

To clarify, the "Mondia" that was on the down tube was hardware store precut vinyl lettering. Not a real decal.

I did as much research on Mondia as I could, and it seems they all had cut outs or fancier nervex-ish lugs, and more importantly swiss BB threading.

onetwentyeight- The stamps on the headtube are "B M". I am guessing the frame builder or lug maker?

As for chrome, the only remnants were on the fork crown, which had been previously sanded. None of the frame lugs or stays were chromed.

The serial number location is right, but on all the Mondias I have found the wrapped seat stays connect in front of the seat collar...these are split?

Yea, I feel happy for saving it regardless.

Mondia also had a second brand, not as common, called Juvela. This may be one of those, but it could also be a regular Mondia, too. They don't ALL have Nervex lugs or full wrap stays.This may be a later model since it has BSC BB threading. That serial number placement is so distinctive I doubt that it's anything else...the lugs ARE Bocama (BCM) should be 531 tubing, congrats on a nice frame!

The raleigh competition GS came with bacoma lugs and match those exactly.

Frame looks kinda "Mondia", at least the stays, and the serial number suggests early '70's. However the lugs do not look like any that I've ever seen on a Mondia, nor does the design of the fork crown. The cable guides are in the right place for a later Mondia Super. Shifter mounts suggest an older model. This is a study in contradictions.

Mondia's have Swiss threads in the bottom bracket, and French threads in the headset. The holes in the head tube are positioned about right for a Mondia headbadge.

My Mondia does not have cut outs in the bottom bracket housing.



Since I've never seen a Juvela, this might be one.

Even if painted up like a Mondia, many of the features are distinctively different.

But you have a good frame in hand. I'm sure it would make a nice Reynolds based build up.

Frame looks Mondia, and the serial number suggests early '70's. The lugs do not look like any that I've ever seen on a Mondia, nor does the design of the fork crown. The cable guides are in the right place for a later Mondia Super. Shifter mounts suggest an older model. This is a study in contradictions.

Mondia's have Swiss threads in the bottom bracket, and French threads in the headset. The holes in the head tube are positioned about right for a Mondia headbadge.

My Mondia does not have cut outs in the bottom bracket housing.



Since I've never seen a Juvela, this might be one.

Even if painted up like a Mondia, many of the features are distinctively different.

But you have a good frame in hand. I'm sure it would make a nice Reynolds based build up.


The raleigh competition GS came with bacoma lugs and match those exactly.

Answer - its the rare Mondleigh Competition Super GS! :lol:

replacement fork?

maybe, but I don't think the Wagner(or Vagner) crown looks out of place,
jinx4: does it have a serial number stamped on the steerer? or any marks on the steerer?
it could be the result of a lot of braze-on additions to an older frame...in any case I'm sure it's a good one and good on ya for saving it from the saw.

replacement fork?

I think it is the original because there was the same sparkly green paint that was in the nooks of the frame under the bad brush paint. It looks original on the steerer tube.


maybe, but I don't think the Wagner(or Vagner) crown looks out of place,
jinx4: does it have a serial number stamped on the steerer? or any marks on the steerer?
it could be the result of a lot of braze-on additions to an older frame...in any case I'm sure it's a good one and good on ya for saving it from the saw.

I inspected the fork real close and could find nothing marked or stamped.

I really do dig the frame...I just wish it fit me.

I really appreciate the perspectives you guys are throwing on this by the way.

look at the stuff in the WoolJersey under "Mondia" and you'll see a couple examples with non-Nervex lugs, including this review of a cyclocross model "prestige" with...Bocama lugs...but not with campy vertical DOs.
http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/broderir/Catalogs-Posters/Road-Tests-Reviews/Bicycling-1977-01/Page+03.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Review done by none other than Gary Fisher, and he really liked the bike! Seems like there's enough variation in the late '70s models to include one as odd as yours, it could even be something done as a one-off for a customer or a tradeshow...who knows?

but not with campy vertical DOs.

Since I first saw this machine, those dropouts looked out of place - do you suppose that they're replacements?

-Kurt

look at the stuff in the WoolJersey under "Mondia" and you'll see a couple examples with non-Nervex lugs, including this review of a cyclocross model "prestige" with...Bocama lugs...but not with campy vertical DOs.
http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/broderir/Catalogs-Posters/Road-Tests-Reviews/Bicycling-1977-01/Page+03.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Review done by none other than Gary Fisher, and he really liked the bike! Seems like there's enough variation in the late '70s models to include one as odd as yours, it could even be something done as a one-off for a customer or a tradeshow...who knows?

I've had this article downloaded for a while, since I'm always looking for more information on Mondia's. Some additional information is also available on a Wiki entry.

The thing about the Fischer article is that you can't see some of the details very well. If jinx4 has Prestige Criterium, then it is one of the more uncommon Mondia's. The serial number still stymies me, because it falls in the range of 1972-74.

I also have Robert Broderick's homepage bookmarked that shows his Mondia Prestige which is significantly different than the model shown in the Fischer article. It seems to combine elements of a Super, and a Special with some original assembly thrown in. Broderick's bike looks a lot like my 1978 Super (same paint and color), but his has the Nervex Lugs, while I have the Prugnat. But then he has a Bocama fork like mine when most Specials had a flat crown, and so on.....

What you have is an early 70's Mondia Cyclocross frameset. Unworthy1 was pretty close. The vertical dropouts were used until 1976. Lugs are Bocama, tubing is probably Columbus EL. The only chrome appeared on the fork crown on their Cyclocross models. I have a 1972-3 Cyclocross, orange, with a mix of Campagnolo/Shimano components. Serial number is.......191294! Our frames were being built at almost the same time. I'll post some pics in a few days. Nice find, and thanks for saving it.

Wow. Thanks guys. I am really happy I decided to post it up here.

Now I am super bummed it's too big. I have been kicking around the idea of building up a vintage cross bike out of an old Schwinn Passage, and here I have been sitting on a real one for more than a year.

retyred - I would love to see your bike!

I believe in frame building nothing is set in stone. Case in point my early stamped drop Super Course with Prugnat instead of Nervex lugs. VERY nice frame, and good save!!!,,,,BD

What you have is an early 70's Mondia Cyclocross frameset. Unworthy1 was pretty close. The vertical dropouts were used until 1976. Lugs are Bocama, tubing is probably Columbus EL. The only chrome appeared on the fork crown on their Cyclocross models. I have a 1972-3 Cyclocross, orange, with a mix of Campagnolo/Shimano components. Serial number is.......191294! Our frames were being built at almost the same time. I'll post some pics in a few days. Nice find, and thanks for saving it.

Retyred:

Can't wait to see pictures of your Cyclocross. Is "cyclocross" also the model name or was the bike just decaled "Mondia."

Does the fork steerer have a flat filed or a slot to stop the washer from rotating?

Left hand threads in the drive side BB shell, could be Swiss threading. Have you verified the size?

Crown is a Wagner. headlugs are Bocama, BCM with the C filed off or poorly stamped.

frame number in the RH seat stay and deep shouts Mondia.

You need a Mondiaphile to measure in mm the hole spacing on the headtube.

You are correct, not a good fixie frame.

Okay guys, as soon as Thanksgiving passes I'll take some pics. Mondia is hanging up in my warehouse. I believe it is the same size as the OP's. No cyclocross designation on it. I did not know anything about Cyclocross models until I encountered R. Broderick's Mondia timeline. I recently spoke with him for two hours by phone regarding a vintage Mondia I was hoping to purchase. I was astounded by his knowledge of Mondias. Incredible is all I can say.

Here are a few pictures of my Mondia cyclocross. I haven't done anything to it since I bought it last year. I believe it is a 1974 model, not the 72-73 as previously stated. Notice the absence of any braze-ons.87834

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A few more pictures of my Mondia cyclocross plus some shots of its resting place.

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87846

cool! It just needs some knobbies...

Chase down the Campy Rear DO as to the year. Send the pic to Campyonly and someone might know. I have a 1964 Bianchi Track bike with the ser # 164301 Jan 1964 301st bike frame made. Could it be a date stamp??? I thought the Swiss BB threading was stopped a long time ago. My first bike was a 1955 Allegro Special with Swiss BB.

A few more pictures of my Mondia cyclocross plus some shots of its resting place.

87843

87844

87845

87846

Who is the girl in the poster........oh and nice bikes!

Who is the girl in the poster........oh and nice bikes!

She's my secretary............ I wish! :D

Now, back to bikes. One of my warehouse pics shows an orange Mondia. That was the companion to the cyclocross model, part of the package deal.

There's something about those pictures that tells me this is PX-10 heaven. Am I right? ;)

-Kurt

There's something about those pictures that tells me this is PX-10 heaven. Am I right? ;)

-Kurt

Absolutely, although some Forum members may not use the word 'heaven' in conjunction with anything having French threading. ;) The photo does show three of my eight PX10s; the green one is a PR10.

Retyred - awesome!! You certainly put all question to rest. VERY nice rack of French ladies you have there. This is my general knock around:

http://velospace.org/files/leorange.jpg

The paint was hammered, so it got a new coat in black since this picture.