Advocacy & Safety - Problem dogs -- what cyclists should do

I just finished posting our article about cyclists using Virginia's dangerous dog law:

http://www.vabike.org/dangerous-dogs-campaign/http://www.vabike.org/dangerous-dogs-campaign/

Under Virginia law, any dog that causes injury can be declared a dangerous dog, whether from a bite, or from a crash caused by the dog. Dog-induced crashes frequently result in serious injuries.

We've provided some hang tags for you to download and print, take with you on rides, and leave at homes where there are cyclist-chasing dogs. These are to advise the dog owner of the law, and the seriousness of having their dog declared a dangerous dog.

There's also an article explaining the law and how to use it, which you can link to, or download and print.

Please feel free to use this material on your own websites, etc.

Lassie took a chomp at my shoe a few months ago, but didn't get much deeper than the sole.

The biggest mistake I see cyclists doing is engaging in play with the dog, training it to chase.

Learn how dogs work and most are no trouble.

Pop rocks firework things do a nice job of driving them off.

So does the bottom of my shoe. Got one this year that way.

This thread reminds me of the "training scene" in American Flyers.

I miss my old Silca pump with the pronged Campagnolo head, but a water bottle can be just as effective. :)

I have been bitten twice by dogs. The first time I was cycling slowly up a 16% grade in an alley in west Los Angeles and got nipped by a golden retriever who was probably just playing. The damage was minimal and the dog owners were so nice about everything that I did not even ask them to pay for my tetanus booster.

The second time, I got chomped in the thigh by an American Staffordshire terrier (basically a pit bull) while jogging home from work. Since this dog was a known neighborhood menance who had previously attacked other dogs in the neighborhood, I immediately phoned animal control. The sympathetic officer wrote up my injury as "moderate" instead of "slight." Vindication came several months later when this dog self-euthanized while biting the tire of a moving car. (Yes, truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.)

I'll see your 'Dangerous Dog' law and raise you a STATE-WIDE leash law. :D

Citation: LA R.S. 3:2771
"No person shall suffer or permit any dog in his possession, or kept by him about his premises, to run at large on any unenclosed land, or trespass upon any enclosed or unenclosed lands of another."

Local law enforcement is familiar with this law, to the point where my riding group has actually made an appointment with a sheriff deputy to deal with a loose, problematic dog on a favorite route. He met us at the appointed time & place, then watched us ride past the house in question. When Fang came charging out from the car port, the deputy drove up to the house & cited the owner, with us cheering him on.:hug:

No more dog problem. Plus this law give cyclists clear right to press the case against the dog owner, in case of injury or damage. Or the right to shoot the dog. if threatened. Basically, a loose dog has little right to exist.

It the owner isn't responsible enough to follow the leash law for a dangerous, a collapsible nightstick should train the dog quickly.

You have to be nuts if you think it's a safe thing to hang a warning tag on someone's property. Things can happen to you that are a whole lot worse than a dog bite. Just ask any dog warden ( or what ever they are called in your area) or a cop. Very dangerous. I'd rather deal with the dog.

my problem is that all these laws are only trying to treat the symptoms not the problems. i ride with my dog Prana regularly and with out a leash. these law just make it so people do not have to take responsibility for properly training and socializing their animals.i got Prana when she was 6 months old and the people who had her didn't even have her house broken it took me 4 months to house break her because she was so old already. my point is don't go get a family dog if you do not want to train it properly and socialize them around new dogs and people regularly. i grew up with 12 rotties and never even have been nipped by them the only dog i have been bitten by was a springer spaniel and again he was a rescue who was kennel locked and un-socialized. so you can see where the problem lies we as a people made a pact with these animals for survival so long ago, and we as a people have violated that trust again and again.
so maybe the law should have a mandatory obedience class law for dogs in an urban setting. that would force people to have a better understanding of their animals. as for Prana she loves to run with me while i ride she does five to six miles in the woods with me an couldn't be happier. (Prana is the dog in the pic)
Thanks,
Jollygreen

The biggest mistake I see cyclists doing is engaging in play with the dog, training it to chase.

Learn how dogs work and most are no trouble.

Pop rocks firework things do a nice job of driving them off.

When I've been chased by dogs, I ride at a fast, but submaximal pace. When the dog is pretty close, I let out aloud yell to startle them and immediately speed up. As I can best recall, they always give up the chase.

I knew a guy who owned a Harley. In his neighborhood was a vicious dog who was always chasing him and trying to take a chunk out of his leg. One day he backed off the throttle to let the dog catch up, and then carefully modulated the throttle (and steering) to keep the dog just out of reach of his leg while the dog was at top speed. Now mind you the dog was on the right hand side of the bike, totally focused on taking a piece out of the guys leg just inches away, so he never saw that mailbox post coming.:lol:

Poison-laced, steel cycling boots. ;)

-Kurt

leash laws are so foolish. It is like banning all cars because some people are bad drivers. Whoa, maybe it is a good idea.

This thread reminds me of the "training scene" in American Flyers.



Hey Eddie !! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfv2diohUXE)

It the owner isn't responsible enough to follow the leash law for a dangerous, a collapsible nightstick should train the dog quickly.
Agreed. Around here, you will probably have better luck dealing with the dog than with the owner. A dog running loose is frequently more intelligent than its owner. Rednecks that let their dogs run loose just don't care and just get PO'd if you point out there is a countywide leash law.

What's the problem? My main worry is that pooch doesn't run under my front wheel, like in the tour. That might not be very good for it... Just ride around it and carry on. Why is everyone getting so worked up? Horse riding people don't ask for cyclists to be chained up just because we often (usually) spook their horses when we meet on the road. They say hello, we say hello, we pass carefully and continue with our journey. Follow the same rule with dogs and you'll usually be fine. If it goes for you, kick it in the face, but I've never seen this happen. Mostly they just woof a lot and run alongside, just doing their duty and all.

I've got bitten once. Dogs chased me a lot of times. Small wound. Couldn't have cared less if there was not a very slight chance of diseases.

They seem to have their area which they don't leave. If you got the speed thats good.
I've thinked about spraying them with water. Or get a whistle if that would work who knows. It's worse if you got food on you. I think even putting your food inside plastic makes dogs less likely to get interested even if they probably notice.

Some of dogs interested in poor bicyclist are real quiet and friendly and just beg for food with big eyes. Maybe they are raised better or just less hungry. Others are horrible beasts. A couple of times a big dangerous looking dog got too excited it would have been scary otherwise. Good they were locked up.

I think the touring crowd have most experience with this.

I just finished posting our article about cyclists using Virginia's dangerous dog law:

http://www.vabike.org/dangerous-dogs-campaign/http://www.vabike.org/dangerous-dogs-campaign/

Under Virginia law, any dog that causes injury can be declared a dangerous dog, whether from a bite, or from a crash caused by the dog. Dog-induced crashes frequently result in serious injuries.

We've provided some hang tags for you to download and print, take with you on rides, and leave at homes where there are cyclist-chasing dogs. These are to advise the dog owner of the law, and the seriousness of having their dog declared a dangerous dog.

There's also an article explaining the law and how to use it, which you can link to, or download and print.

Please feel free to use this material on your own websites, etc.

I think, ANY dangerous-dog law is a waste. Yes the dogs may behave badly but, their behavior is a product of their environment. Prosecute the owners, don't euthanize the dogs.

Dogs bark at me all the time. If it is a case of, they are being walked by their owners, instead of taking my response out on the owner, I stop and, show the dog that, they don't need to be afraid of me.

Dog bites in general and the severity of the bite notwithstanding, the dog needs compassion:) from the cyclist, not anger.:mad: Direct your response at the owner, not the dog.

I once had a dog in my rural neighborhood who regularly chased my car (an old Jeep BTW). So one day when he did it, I flipped a u-turn, engaged 4wd, then returned the favor, chasing him across a field. The dog never bothered me again.

-Old Army

I've been permanently injured by an aggressive, loose dog, and probably won't be able to bend my thumb for the rest of my life. I now carry Counter Assault bear spray in a cable-tie holster in my basket. It's just not worth wondering if they're playing or attacking, betting on the chance that they won't run under your wheel.

Yikes! Some of you people are pretty aggressively anti-dog! I'm wondering if this is a cultural difference again- my mind boggled when I saw a thread on another cycling forum about "do you carry a gun when you ride" and the response was mostly yes, cue lot's of gun-geeking about what calibre, how many bullets, how many bears can you kill with a single shot etc etc. Scary to me! In the UK you take a gun when you are hunting, and try to conduct yourself with some degree of civility around other peoples animals. I never heard of anyone in the UK carrying pepper spray to blast dogs with!

Yikes! Some of you people are pretty aggressively anti-dog! I'm wondering if this is a cultural difference again- my mind boggled when I saw a thread on another cycling forum about "do you carry a gun when you ride" and the response was mostly yes, cue lot's of gun-geeking about what calibre, how many bullets, how many bears can you kill with a single shot etc etc. Scary to me! In the UK you take a gun when you are hunting, and try to conduct yourself with some degree of civility around other peoples animals. I never heard of anyone in the UK carrying pepper spray to blast dogs with!

Most definitely a cultural difference. I seldom hear of dog issues from riders in the UK. Restrained dogs do not need pepper spray.

Dogs are everywhere. If one percent of them makes trouble it guarantees my encouter with one sooner or later. I would have nothing against some dog running beside me for less than a minute but theres the uncertainty. Before you can judge the situation you are already exposed to the risk of being bitten no matter how small.

The civility around other peoples animals goes straight out of the window if some dog begins to make small bites against my foot. If some random bicyclist feels threathened because of a dog I might say the problem is almost always caused by the dog and its owner.

Spraying an agressive dog with pepper spray might upset the dog owner. In my experience most of the owners of annoying dogs seem always to think there is never nothing wrong with their pet or they are just incapable in some other way.

About the biggest problems I see with dogs are not in terms of primary (i.e. the dogs biting the bikers), but secondary (the bikers swerving their bikes out of the path of a dog and into traffic). This one I really see as big with kids and dogs.
As for my solution, I have animal control on speed dial.

YouTube - Dogs Chasing Joe on a Bicycle

Had to laugh at how he barks back at them. :D

i have had very few encounters with dogs on my rides but when i have had a few chase me i either speed up or yell loudly at them, and most will turn away. You can usually tell when a dog is "playing" or actually trying to attack you. I had a problem with one dog i kept encountering on my route to work every morning. He kept getting braver and braver and actually growled and bit at me. So what i did was waited till there was safely no traffic and slowed to let him catch up, and right when he got even with me i swerved at him hard. I didnt hit, nor did i try to, but it made him think about it and i never had problems again. I guess in his brain i figured my bike was some kinda animal that attacked back and was bigger and dominate or something wierd like that. But i always carry a small .22 semi-auto pistol when i ride or even a 9mm sometimes because there have been plenty of other wildlife around in alabama were i ride. Coyotes, wild dogs, snakes, it never hurts to be prepared

Most of you are missing the point.

If a rogue dog in your neighborhood actually bit someone, most people would not hesitate to have it entered into the dangerous dog registry. And if a loose dog was clearly a threat, most people would find it appropriate to notify its owner.

This is all we're asking for, but with dog-bike crashes in mind -- which are more common than bites, and usually more serious than bites. So why not deal with them in an equally serious way?

For anyone not familiar with the threat: dogs commonly give chase and take a rider down before the rider has any chance at evasive action. You're mistaken if you think you can swerve to avoid a dog running alongside at 20 MPH that suddenly swerves under your wheels. Yes, it often kills the dog. But the riders are often injured badly too. Just in our club we've had 5 serious injuries in the last 3-4 years -- including broken pelvises, collarbones, and facial injuries requiring many rounds of reconstructive surgery.

Not to mention the totaled bikes!

This is no joke.

OTOH, dog bites rarely need more than a few stitches, even "serious" ones that would have all the neighbors clamoring to get a dog declared dangerous.

i am scared of people who cant use the shift key or punctuate who carry guns on bike rides.

i am scared of people who cant use the shift key or punctuate who carry guns on bike rides.
since i am sure this was directed at me, why are you scared of people with guns? I guess everyone who owns one just has an itchy trigger finger and cant wait to blast some innocent animal or person. Were just all maniac rednecks with guns right?

Seems that way to me. In the UK, you take a gun to go hunting. Over here it's more traditional to take a bike to go cycling.

yeah i hunt to but not so much here lately. I carry a gun for protection

I can go long stretches with no dog encounters and then had one on Sunday and three today. Fortunately, two of them couldn't reach me fast enough. The other was a Rottweiler cross that was walking down the middle of the road with a leash hanging from his collar. Oh great, I thought. I sniffed as I rode by and that was it. I always carry a couple of rocks in my pocket for an Akita I go by. The throwing motion of the arm and the rocks flying through the air always stop him in his tracks.

Shoot them.

If a dog goes to bite me I WILL kick it's head in. Leash laws need to be followed.

Yikes! Some of you people are pretty aggressively anti-dog!

I don't really think the people are anti-dog. I think people are anti-dog-owners-that-fail-to-control-their-dangerous-animals.

If you want to keep a dog, I think you have to control your dog. I'm pretty sure that the owners of the problem dogs are aware that they chase bikes/cars/joggers/whatever, but still fail to contain the animal. At that point, the gloves are off.

Pepper spray, guns, knives, bombs, poison, steel toed boots, or any other means of disposing of the dog [or owner] at that point are justified.

I had an idiot punk neighbor once that thought raising his doberman and pit bull to be mean was cool. One day when the kids were playing in the back yard the doberman busted through the fence and came after the kids. Luckily they escaped to the garage, but were pinned in by the dog. I came home from work and dispactched the dog back to his yard with a baseball bat in order to rescue the kids. Police and animal control dealt with the punk when he came home later.

Based on that incident I have 0 respect for any person that allows their beast to intimidate, chase, or attack another person.

since i am sure this was directed at me, why are you scared of people with guns? I guess everyone who owns one just has an itchy trigger finger and cant wait to blast some innocent animal or person. Were just all maniac rednecks with guns right?

Yeah, pretty much.....(at least ones that drag them around wherever they go..)

I never leave the house without mine. I have a CCW permit to carry so its legal

I like folks with guns as long as they have concealed weapons permits. On dogs, I like to sucker the incorregible ones by pretending to flee, then rapidly slow and get them with my foot. If that fails, I'll train them with pepper spray.

After a training session or two, they stay away.

Al

Not always possible, but in my hometown there are tons of dogs running around and after being chased and scared for years by dogs, I got fed up and angry. One day I figured out that if I stopped, turned around and started chasing them with true intent to do damage, they run away scared. You gotta really mean it, though- they can tell if you're faking.

Not always possible, but in my hometown there are tons of dogs running around and after being chased and scared for years by dogs, I got fed up and angry. One day I figured out that if I stopped, turned around and started chasing them with true intent to do damage, they run away scared. You gotta really mean it, though- they can tell if you're faking.

I've had very few problems. No repeats. If I ever have a repeat dog I'll just take my puppies for a walk near them. (Read that as 2 dogs 205 Lbs total).

The funniest in hindsight was one incident with 3 dogs, average size bigger than mine. They were coming at me from a height. Agvantage all theirs. Then I noticed, no barking and tails wagging. Biggest problem was getting them to stop wanting to be petted and go home. But for a second they were very scarry, mush more scarry than a feral pack I had to deal with once.

I've had very few problems. No repeats. If I ever have a repeat dog I'll just take my puppies for a walk near them. (Read that as 2 dogs 205 Lbs total).

The funniest in hindsight was one incident with 3 dogs, average size bigger than mine. They were coming at me from a height. Agvantage all theirs. Then I noticed, no barking and tails wagging. Biggest problem was getting them to stop wanting to be petted and go home. But for a second they were very scarry, mush more scarry than a feral pack I had to deal with once.

Yeah, dogs at head level are certainly more intimidating.

i am scared of people who cant use the shift key or punctuate who carry guns on bike rides.

The fact that this person actually posted a remark like this and didn't capitalize the first letter concerns me for the educational system across the pond. That's called irony. Not only that, but beginning a sentence with 'I' is really bad form. And the structure demonstates the poster napped through classes on proper grammar. Tsk, Tsk. After all it IS the Queen's English, mate.

It's a concern of mine that it's legal to carry firearms when cycling in the US while not being trained in the proper usage of the punctuation and shift keys on a computer keyboard.

See? Much more succinct...and actually funny instead of merely snarky. :rolleyes: You're welcome. :thumb:

What? They still have guns in the UK? Must be out in the provinces. Maybe that's why there is a growing problem with knifings - eh, what???

People will do what they will do - guns or no. So will dogs. I will generally credit dogs as being pretty good souls. Not at all sure of people. Til I am, I'll own guns and know their use well. However, they stay home unless I'm out for a plinking session. Too heavy for a bike ride anyway.

By the way, I'm one of those fools who sometimes stops to pet the dangerous, foul beasts. When I stop, they simply run out of options, and won't even look you in the eye, except for a split second. A couple times and you're friends.

Stopping serves to interrupt the chase response. It doesn't reward the chase, it stops it. Then, a good pet or snack for stopping. See?

Bark loudly at them! It works 90% of the time. They stop, ears stand tall and they look around for the other dog.

In my state it seems unless an officer witnesses the aggressive dog or there are witnesses nothing can be done. Dogs not in a fenced yard or on a leash can be reported to animal control. In my county, animal control is a joke. They want you to fill out tons of goverment paperwork, sign a certified letter and still nothing gets done about problems...unless a dog bite is involved.

The biggest mistake I see cyclists doing is engaging in play with the dog, training it to chase.

Learn how dogs work and most are no trouble.

Pop rocks firework things do a nice job of driving them off.

There's an idea.. You'd think that would cure them for all time.. I try to be patient with dogs, because we're dog lovers. Not so much tho, they permit me to crash... This one dog down the street. I've had my patience tested too many time... They wait till you pass and sneak up on you.. I've told the owners. They don't care.. So, today, I went on the attack. I chased him. Into his yard , while on the bike. And closed their gate.. I'm about to call the police. Law here does not take to kindly to dog attacking cyclists.

The fact that this person actually posted a remark like this and didn't capitalize the first letter concerns me for the educational system across the pond. That's called irony. Not only that, but beginning a sentence with 'I' is really bad form. And the structure demonstates the poster napped through classes on proper grammar. Tsk, Tsk. After all it IS the Queen's English, mate.

It's a concern of mine that it's legal to carry firearms when cycling in the US while not being trained in the proper usage of the punctuation and shift keys on a computer keyboard.

See? Much more succinct...and actually funny instead of merely snarky. :rolleyes: You're welcome. :thumb:

It was an attempt at parody, but I found it rather difficult to fit many grammatical errors into so short a sentence. But don't let that distract you from your ecstatic delight at the sight of your own written words appearing on a computer screen in front of you.

Bag of dark chocolate, anyone?