Classic & Vintage - Vintage Confente on Ebay

Big Guys Alert!

um, Big Rich Guys...

180309398342.

The pictures are worth the looksee.

Could be the most beautiful bike I have ever seen. It is even my size. Unfortunately I don't have a spare $5000+ laying around.

Just gorgeous. I can see the lineage of the California Masi Gran Criteriums in its profile--slack-ish frame angles, moderate fork rake and wheel clearances, and the "spooned" seat stay caps. The detailing is at a whole other level, though.

Does the seller have a 60?

ya know, that bike has been well used, judging from the state of the almarc and the wear on the brake pads. Rufus knows how to keep his crap looking good, no?

damndamndamn dayum.
Makes me wish I were a bit taller (well ok a lot taller).
one of the most beautiful bikes I've seen in a long time.

Marty

Don't believe the hype! Cute sales pitch but for those in the know... Ain't worth 4K, even as a collectors piece. Maybe if you were related, as a family heirloom.

Does this statement in the auction raise red flags for anyone?

"yes, One Sweet Bicycle, I am Selling this bike for a friend of mine, the bike is in los Vegas, and can be seen by appointment befor Auction ends
call Rufus at (702)750-9430 or (709) 750-9430
there is a $200.00 deposit after the end of Auction. The bike can be pick up in Las Vegas.
we can make arrangement to ship at actual cost! plus the cost of packaging. Need to Contact Ralph or Rufus at end of auction"

Neal

The seller's legit. The bike's legit. The bike is also collectible, despite what Mr. RealFrames states.

Neal,

Unless his account has been hijacked rjcarnevale is a well known, and respected
ebay seller as well as CR list member.

RealFrames, care to elaborate?

Don't believe the hype! Cute sales pitch but for those in the know... Ain't worth 4K, even as a collectors piece. Maybe if you were related, as a family heirloom.

Just how do you figure that? Mike Kone's Confente in similar condition sold back in February within 3 hours for the asking price of $8,800 (http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10802.1067.eml). It's easily worth the starting price.

Neal,

Unless his account has been hijacked rjcarnevale is a well known, and respected
ebay seller as well as CR list member.


Good to know, though I'd feel better if he were more careful with the wording and correctness of his ad copy.

Neal

Don't believe the hype! Cute sales pitch but for those in the know... Ain't worth 4K, even as a collectors piece. Maybe if you were related, as a family heirloom.
Translation?

I'm bidding on it.


heh.

Don't believe the hype! Cute sales pitch but for those in the know... Ain't worth 4K, even as a collectors piece. Maybe if you were related, as a family heirloom.

The only thing on that machine that can make me feel that way is the fact that the headlugs haven't been filed up front. Otherwise - forget it, buster... ;)

-Kurt

The only thing on that machine that can make me feel that way is the fact that the headlugs haven't been filed up front. Otherwise - forget it, buster... ;)


Kurt, if you take a look at "RealFrames" posting record, it is a total of 4 negative one-liners in a half hour's space since he joined on the 26th - today.

The only thing on that machine that can make me feel that way is the fact that the headlugs haven't been filed up front. Otherwise - forget it, buster... ;)

-Kurt

Well, at least the front caliper is non-period-correct, which knocks it down a couple of thou. Then there are what might be post-CPSC (and also therefore non-period) QR levers on the skewers, but they're cleverly concealed by the booties, so you can't tell if they're the hand-bent kind. Then again, the rear skewer partakes of the Campy hi-lo hub mojo, so I guess that's not a deal breaker anyway.

Well, at least the front caliper is non-period-correct, which knocks it down a couple of thou. Then there are what might be post-CPSC (and also therefore non-period) QR levers on the skewers, but they're cleverly concealed by the booties, so you can't tell if they're the hand-bent kind. Then again, the rear skewer partakes of the Campy hi-lo hub mojo, so I guess that's not a deal breaker anyway.

I don't know why you assert any of those things are non-period correct. The super record group I bought in '78 had CPSC skewers. The front caliper looks right, except I don't see the engraving on it. I assume they got that O-ring from somewhere other than campy, but otherwise it looks right to me. Dunno if that hurts the value. I have exactly those brake shoes on my bike, they were available in that era. If any of you pony up the $8000 this may go for, I can get you some stock campy period correct brake shoe holders for a complete restoration.

I could point out 10 deficits in the workmanship on the frame, but that doesn't really detract from the value of the bike.

I don't know why you assert any of those things are non-period correct. The super record group I bought in '78 had CPSC skewers.

Except for the fact that this is supposed to be a first-gen SR group.


I could point out 10 deficits in the workmanship on the frame, but that doesn't really detract from the value of the bike.

I didn't take a close look - I only took note of the headlugs. Point the others out to me, then maybe I'll dislike this frame (preferably).

-Kurt

Except for the fact that this is supposed to be a first-gen SR group.
-Kurt
Is it? It looks like the rear skewer has aluminum parts, does that date it at all? Plus the CPSC skewers had a different nut than these. It was quite common on custom bikes to have the handles bent. By this time, people didn't really like the looks of the straight levers, it was common to heat them up and bend them. There is no doubt that the original owner put aftermarket parts on here.



I didn't take a close look - I only took note of the headlugs. Point the others out to me, then maybe I'll dislike this frame (preferably).

-Kurt
The overall presentation is very nice, but I'm trying to do you a favor here. :)
There are two that really jump out at me. If you look at the view with the shifters, the shore line of the lower ht lug is discontinuous. There is a nasty gash in the left rear dropout near the seat stay. The approach to the dropouts is haphazard, some of them are fully filled, but the chainstay to left rear dropout joint has a substantial cavity. These are the defects that really jumped out at me, I see hints of some other lapses in workmanship, but the photos are crummy. I'm sure with what I see there are plenty more nits to pic.

If you ever make it to the geographic center of Pennsylvania, I'll let you pic nits on some of the frames I've made in order to make up for this post

It's really horrible, isn't it? All those fiddly cut-outs, smooth paint, even hand-sewn leather bar wrap for heaven's sake - you'd think they would put some decent plastic Bike Ribbon or similar on it!

(Jealousy's a vile thing - I'm only glad it's too big for me and hope the new owner will be really pleased with it! I've never even seen a photo of a Confente before and I have to say it looks beautiful).

Except for the fact that this is supposed to be a first-gen SR group.

-Kurt
the only SR component I see on there at all is the rear derailleur, and maybe the chainrings. It strikes me as strange that the chainrings weren't pantographed. But the thing that's really strange is the front derailleur. As far as I know, there was no such thing as a brazed on front derailleur in the '70s -- suggests a repaint. The seatpost isn't period correct either. Can't tell if it is Confente, but I would be surprised if it was.

No jealousy here, it's sad that Confente died so young. That's the thing that's really driving these prices.

Have to admit its a very very nice bike, and certainly worth every penny, especially since its one of only 124 road frames, but that bike is clearly not the most beautiful bike I've ever seen.

Tis true! I've seen some bikes right here on BF (C&V of course) that are breathtaking gorgeous. Maybe not quite the collector appeal of Confente, but definitely 'show stoppers' in their own rite. :D

That's just a silly bike. Too nice for words.

NO thanks, I'd have to sell some Paramounts to do the deal.

Vegas is only about 6 hours away from here though.....

It has a braze-on front changer mount! Unless Mario rose from the dead, added later, therefore repainted. Which would also explain the chrome full chain stay.

Will that hurt the price? Probably not much.

Best guess even in this sour market, $7,000.

There are two that really jump out at me. If you look at the view with the shifters, the shore line of the lower ht lug is discontinuous. There is a nasty gash in the left rear dropout near the seat stay. The approach to the dropouts is haphazard, some of them are fully filled, but the chainstay to left rear dropout joint has a substantial cavity. These are the defects that really jumped out at me, I see hints of some other lapses in workmanship, but the photos are crummy.

Having seen one in the nude, I blame the paint here, and maybe the chrome job. Mario, did a slew of things that no one would ever see when the frame is built that were thought through, and nicely handled. Beyond reproach? No. but back in 1976, was the best anyone in America would see, at that time.

Too good to live, too young to die, bye buy.

The Pro Strada stickers on the chainstays? That too would be an afterthought, non? Maybe Medici did the repaint. I'm pretty sure about the pedigree, looking at the lugs, bottom bracket, etc., and comparing to other pics on the web.

The Pro Strada stickers on the chainstays? That too would be an afterthought, non? Maybe Medici did the repaint. I'm pretty sure about the pedigree, looking at the lugs, bottom bracket, etc., and comparing to other pics on the web.

the lowdown on Pro-Strada and Pro-Pista.

Mario's and his graphic designers doing. Now the plot thickens, also used by Medici, both financed by Rexart. The Pro- names being used by Medici were not originally known to Mario until he saw the transfers by mistake, this and a few other things unraveled the deal for Mario. Note that the Pro-Strada transfers on Medici's at First used a reversal of colors compared to Confente's theme, same screens though...after the blow-up, Medici used whatever they wanted or what was left at some point.

Kind of the same reasons that Medici used lugs that at first glance look like Confente lugs, just when compared side by side, are without finesse. Mario never used the investment cast lugs on his bikes, his are highly modified Bocama professional longpoint, I think he toyed with short point lugs like Masi, but did not settle on them.

One other thing about this bike. The top tube cable guides are wrong, or at least different than any other Confente I have seen.

The using of on top of the shell shift cable guides is uncommon, but not without sisters. Those cable guides, either changed out as the original ones were tight for almost all housing or the frame did not have them to begin with, and they were added later, with the shifter braze on.

Time to ask the seller a question or two or three, I think the bike is legit, but modified.

The Pro Strada stickers on the chainstays? That too would be an afterthought, non? Maybe Medici did the repaint. I'm pretty sure about the pedigree, looking at the lugs, bottom bracket, etc., and comparing to other pics on the web.

Luker, you mentioned something I overlooked, the chain stay transfers have black type and a YELLOW drop shadow. This is how Medici first did their initial version. I spent a bit of time going over all the images I could find, and while a few late Confente's did not have any chain stay transfers, all that did had yellow type with BLACK drop shadow, good catch.

Add up the top tube guides, braze on for the changer, chrome stay, transfer inversion, and I might add sloppy head lug paint on the shoreline and spade cutout. REPAINT & modified.

Medici or Cyclart would have had access to the transfers without much effort.

It has a braze-on front changer mount! Unless Mario rose from the dead, added later, therefore repainted. Which would also explain the chrome full chain stay.

Will that hurt the price? Probably not much.

Best guess even in this sour market, $7,000.

As a number of forum members can attest, my 1978 Marastoni has an original braze-on front derailleur. :thumb:

An interesting mod. there was a guy who machined a body which required two studs brazed onto the tube to secure, the body had two slots so different chainring sizes could be used, that was 1973-74.

Way back there were those French in the 50's who also played with brazed on mech.

here is an excellent article about Confente

http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2008/02/mario-confente.html

That initial article was a good recap of what was already out there.

http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/search?q=confente+sister

brings up the two additional blog posts where some new information and images appear, including an image with Eddy and Mario.

The ebay seller's agent clarified some stuff.

#64

Repainted, by Simonetti, but stated at Masi, I doubt that, but it was over 30 years ago.

Most likely then a color change repaint at Medici, with updates.

Back then it was just a nice bicycle.

I don't know why you assert any of those things are non-period correct. The super record group I bought in '78 had CPSC skewers. The front caliper looks right, except I don't see the engraving on it. I assume they got that O-ring from somewhere other than campy, but otherwise it looks right to me. Dunno if that hurts the value. I have exactly those brake shoes on my bike, they were available in that era. If any of you pony up the $8000 this may go for, I can get you some stock campy period correct brake shoe holders for a complete restoration.

I could point out 10 deficits in the workmanship on the frame, but that doesn't really detract from the value of the bike.

You're missing the fact that those are script logo calipers - circa 1983. Maybe a screen resolution issue, for you, though you can also tell by the more triangular profile of the caliper itself.

As a number of forum members can attest, my 1978 Marastoni has an original braze-on front derailleur. :thumb:

It does. Citoyen didn't photo shop that pic.

You're missing the fact that those are script logo calipers - circa 1983. Maybe a screen resolution issue, for you, though you can also tell by the more triangular profile of the caliper itself.

The auction page now states that the bike was assembled over a number of years, think of a version of the old Johnny Cash tune where the car was assembled one piece at a time over a period of years, so it was not really of any one year.

At the price it will close at, I am sure the new owner will be able to transplant the "correct" parts or leave it be. I would trade out that pump, the mismatch of the crest and bands just bugs me, its too close but no aligned.

It does. Citoyen didn't photo shop that pic.

Here is another Marastoni with braze-on front derailleur from the 70's (the SLX decal was added during the repaint, as were the cobalto brakes, the stem is original)

Don't believe the hype! Cute sales pitch but for those in the know... Ain't worth 4K, even as a collectors piece. Maybe if you were related, as a family heirloom.

How many times does it have to be said? An item is worth whatever a willing, arm's-length, informed purchaser is willing to pay. So I guess RealFrames is right - it isn't worth $4,000. It's actually worth over $5,000. And it might even end up beinbg worth over $6,000.

And I absolutely agree that it is simply bee-yoo-tee-full. It deserves better than to be just a "coffee shop bike" or a wall hanging. It deserves to be out on the open road, doing what it was built to do - go fast, or at least as fast as the rider can manage.

But if I paid that much for it, I'd probably have it hanging on my living room wall, too. Under pexiglass. With armed guards.

But if I paid that much for it, I'd probably have it hanging on my living room wall, too. Under pexiglass. With armed guards.

In the scheme of vintage bicycles, Confente is up there at the top tier of pricing for post war vintage lightweights, Rene Herse also can fetch this much on a slightly more regular basis.

Now, compared to modern stuff, even semi-production stuff from Trek, or "fill in the blank" running a new bike's bottom line up to $10k US is not that hard, and those bikes get ridden. The difference is if they get stolen or trashed, they can be replaced. The problem of replacement is the issue, not the price.

We have a few local artists who command that much for wall art in the northwest. all you have to do is convince your significant other that a Confente is equal to say, a Roy Reynolds, as far as fine art goes...

How many times does it have to be said? An item is worth whatever a willing, arm's-length, informed purchaser is willing to pay.

It has to be said until you're blue in the face. Even auction houses publish estimates, geez.

In the scheme of vintage bicycles, Confente is up there at the top tier of pricing for post war vintage lightweights, Rene Herse also can fetch this much on a slightly more regular basis.

Now, compared to modern stuff, even semi-production stuff from Trek, or "fill in the blank" running a new bike's bottom line up to $10k US is not that hard, and those bikes get ridden. The difference is if they get stolen or trashed, they can be replaced. The problem of replacement is the issue, not the price.

No, in my case, it's the money. :D

I just looked at the most recent issue of BuyCycling magazine - I guess I've reached the age of old-fartdom, as the prices of the "good stuff" they were shilling struck me as ridiculous. (And is it my imagination, or are most bike mags still recycling, with minor tweeks, the same articles that were being run 35 years ago?) As long as one is content for less-than-pristine paint on, say, a 1967 Paramount, or a 1982-ish Ron Cooper, frame/fork/headset in each case (just to take two examples with which I have personal and highly satisfactory experience), $400 or thereabouts gets you an amazingly good frame that is a virtual blank slate on which to paint one's component-lust and come in for a grand or less; $1,500 if you really splurge, and $1,800 with splurging and a respray.

But that Confente really is something special. I am not convinced that his frames are built or ride any better than frames built by Ron Cooper, or Rene Herse, or Ugo De Rosa, or Roland Della Santa, or Cino Cinelli, or Sante Pogliaghi, or any of a number of other builders, but the combination of top-drawer quality, proven pedigree and never-to-be-seen-again rarity really does make it unique.

I am impressed, the one-upmanship in the bidding has already begun. $5,450. with three days to go.

And it looks like a new serious player too.

new day new info, frame number is now #62.

Some more questions to the seller.

Some more bids.

I gave my estimate at a final bid price earlier. What do you guys think?

I'm still betting $7k. At $5.6k now. (and zero feedbacks!)

I'm still betting $7k. At $5.6k now. (and zero feedbacks!)

My buddy sold his last year for $8000 for the bike... less the wheels and few parts and in need of solid restoration (good shape.. just needs a good cleaning and acquiring the few parts). The bike was given to his dad back in 1984 for helping organize the LA Olympic cycling events.

So this bike could fetch a bit more, considering that they don't show up very often, the opportunity is there, and it's complete. It will be interesting to see!

It has a braze-on front changer mount!

Brian Bayliss suggested on the CR site that Confente probably had access to all things Campagnolo before they were generally available to others.

Brian Bayliss suggested on the CR site that Confente probably had access to all things Campagnolo before they were generally available to others.

With the admitted repaint and the other braze ons added. I am very sure it was added too.
What is interesting, it the seller wrote in an update to the auction, stating he had a conversation with Jim Cunningham of Cyclart. Aside from correcting the serial number again, he made no mention to answer the outstanding braze on questions. I would think the build card would have had that info as to braze ons ordered.

The earliest I can find any dated photodocumentation of a Campagnolo production front der. braze on was 1981, not before. Even assuming the catalog was printed in 1980 for the sake of argument, and this frame is now #39, which would be 1976 without a doubt, it was added.

Now, the French custom builders did a version of a chain rest long ago, but when did the chainrest brazed onto the seat stay come into vogue, on American or Italian bikes? 1976 is too early for that too.

My buddy sold his last year for $8000 for the bike... less the wheels and few parts and in need of solid restoration (good shape.. just needs a good cleaning and acquiring the few parts). The bike was given to his dad back in 1984 for helping organize the LA Olympic cycling events.

So this bike could fetch a bit more, considering that they don't show up very often, the opportunity is there, and it's complete. It will be interesting to see!

Was that the bike Cyclart brought to Velo Rendezvous in 2007?