Fifty Plus (50+) - Is this what you 50+ MTB'ers do?

This is supposedly a guy in his 40s or 50s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8mgFjvt8k8

I watch this and think that there is no way I'd want to go down this trail. No attraction whatsoever.

Well.... I've ridden trails that tight but at about 1/2 that speed. It also seems like a fairly aggresive slope angle so again yeah, I've ridden stuff that steep but not anywhere near as crowded or consistent.

He's a few levels up from me, that's for sure. But I know a lot of riders that this would be normal and even mild to ride and they are in their mid to late 40's... They are just a lot more hard core than I am and do nothing else BUT ride mountain bikes.

..... it needs to be noted that I'm about 20 minutes drive away from "The Shore" though. So the more serious riders around here are a LOT more serious. I should also add that around here I'd be looked at as a rank novice.

At the age of 50, I've ridden down similar trails. I've flipped over the handle bars, broke brake levers on trees and other bike parts, and fortunately never broke any of my parts. But the toughest part is riding back up, and I do mean UP, the same trail to the top.

I'm turning 51 in 1 month.

Just a little too agressive for me. At 62 I like my trails a little wider than that. I'm trying not to break any bones as that takes too long to heal and I'd rather be riding. Most of my trails are car width, as in fire roads, power lines access roads and unpaved and in many cases unimproved rail trails. Its easy enough to get into trouble on dirt at 15+ without having trees to wack. I prefer most of the rides that Stapfam sends pictures of.

I'd ride that, but slower than he is. I don't have a lot of tight trees where I usually ride, but have done it before. I think BluesDawg would feel at home there.

Tom, head to the Chequamegon Fat Tire Festival and check it out! It's in northwest Wisconsin.

I have neither the guts nor the physical coordination for technicals. My idea of a good mountain bike trail is a fire road. :)

I'm familiar with the Chequamegon Fat Tire Festival. It looks like it would be fun for someone who likes to do that sort of thing.

Just like the Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour looks like it would be a lot of fun for someone who could do that.

I have ridden trails that tight and with trees that close, but without the steep downslope and thus without so much speed. I rarely see a downhill section that long. I would probably consider riding that trail under dryer conditions and more slowly. The combination of downhill, tight turns, narrow trail between trees and wet surface is a recipe for disaster for all but the most highly skilled riders.

I do like fast and twisty trails through the trees with hills (both up and down) and with rocks and roots thrown in to make things interesting. I don't care much for the artificial jumps as seen in the video. I like a little more elbow room when I ride fast.

Just like the Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour looks like it would be a lot of fun for someone who could do that.

You've probably seen the great pictures Rick@OCRR has put up here from that event?

That doesn't interest me either. Looks way too dangerous. :twitchy: That's why I'm sticking with riding my cross bike during the cold months. In fact I've been on ebay quite a bit lately looking and bidding on a "new" cross bike. Haven't won yet. :o

This looks a lot more appealing to me.
YouTube - VQ DPR Trail Bike Ride

Much more attractive riding to me.....

You've probably seen the great pictures Rick@OCRR has put up here from that event?

Yes I have. It looks very nice.

There are also two days a year when motorcyclists circle Lake Pepin all day. Well, as least in between bar stops.

That looks like a nice ride on a smooth and narrow dirt road. Where is the trail?

My idea of a good MTB ride would fall somewhere between the two extremes shown.

In our local woods we have plenty of single track that can be taken at speed. The track is a bit wider between the trees so not quite as dangerous. They also have a bit of Downhill in them so speed can be quite high---Or slow if you are doing them in reverse. I do prefer the uphill climb as it takes more skill.

Then there is the Downhillers trail-- Plenty of ramps in it- plenty of changes of surface and plenty of steep sections. I do occasionally do it and feel quite pleased if I can get down it in under 2 minutes. Problem is that the Downhillers do it in about 1m 30s.

I got a good rush out of that video.

Oh, yeah. I ride like that all the time . . . . . . IN MY DREAMS!!

When looking at the trail I didn't think it was crazy dangerous, so I'd give it a try. I don't get air, though, so I'd be a lot, lot slower than that fellow.

Yes I ride MTB trails as tight as those portrayed in the first post, but that looks like a downhill, technical trail. I ride hilly terain, but not straight downhills. You need to add some logs to jump and some serious gullies to be similiar to the courses I ride.
I don't ride as fast as the film portrays.
IMHO, I think that film speed was increased. I'm basing that on the amount of lift on his front wheels coming off those berms. At the speed I travel, the front wheel stays on the ground or lifts slightly, just like the rider in the film. At the speed of that film I would have thought he would be completely airborn. I'd be interested to hear what BluesDawg thinks about that.
As for guys in their 40's riding those trails, I ride road bikes with a guy in his mid 40s who also rides MTBs. If he was on that trail, he would be yelling for the guy in the film to get out of his way. I can't keep up with him when he's cruising on single track, never mind when he races. He can bunny hop logs over 1 ft thick. As for me, I just crash into logs that big :D.
Mountain biking is like being a kid again, "playin in the dirt".

I don't ride as fast as the film portrays.
IMHO, I think that film speed was increased. I'm basing that on the amount of lift on his front wheels coming off those berms. At the speed I travel, the front wheel stays on the ground or lifts slightly, just like the rider in the film. At the speed of that film I would have thought he would be completely airborn. I'd be interested to hear what BluesDawg thinks about that.

It is hard to say how fast he is really going in the video, or for that matter, how far off the ground he is going. It appears to be a helmet mounted camera, so you have to take into account that the camera persective is constantly changing as he moves his head to look forward or look down at the front wheel. If I had to judge, I would say that the speed of the video is true.

The more I watch the video, the more I think that with enough repetitions to become very familiar with this trail, I could probably do it at that speed. But having said that, it is not the kind of riding I do often or enjoy most. The wetness of the trail would be my biggest concern. I suppose with good mud tires and enough muddy condition training, I could handle it. But The vast majority of my riding is on trails that drain well enough that we don't ride them when they have that much standing water, preferring to wait a day or two to let them drain in the interest of preserving the trail.

I would love to ride a trail like that and I am 56. I would not ride as fast and be very careful. Healing from a crash in those conditions would be hard to do.
Or you could try something like this trail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaY6zHZZ_Qs.
When I see rides like this I wish I was younger and/or more talented so I could do either with speed and control.
But again I would do both now but at a much slower speed and not do the air.

I see stuff like that in tree-covered hilly Virginia--but at much slower speeds. The magazine MTB Review describes our local trail network this way:

"Technical and rocky and rooty and at some times of the year, covered with leaves. Typical Virginia riding at it's finest. If you've never been into the big hills of the west, this is a great testing ground. For those of you with technical skills it will test you. For those of you without technical skills, it will teach you. But don't be intimidated. This is what it's all about. And just before the downhills get to you they end (which has the depressing side effect of LOTS of climbing) This is a great place to train for the Va championship series if you're a racer"

I, however, am not a racer training for the VA championship series, and wouldn't mind some less technical riding.

The wetness of the trail would be my biggest concern. I suppose with good mud tires and enough muddy condition training, I could handle it. But The vast majority of my riding is on trails that drain well enough that we don't ride them when they have that much standing water, preferring to wait a day or two to let them drain in the interest of preserving the trail.

One thing we do have over here is wet trails. Our trails are over chalk which does drain very well- but wet chalk is slippery. And after a couple of days of them being wet- you get "Green" chalk. A thin layer of moss and algae that turns it to a surface akin to Ice. So we are used to riding on slippery surfaces and you soon learn what tyre is the one that works for you.

Then we have mud. Mud is not slippery but it does cause some control problems. If you have the right tyre- you can cut through deep mud to the hard surface below and still get grip but this normally requires a 1.8 tyre with plenty of wide spaced Knobbles and using a gear just a bit higher than normal to stop torque causing wheel spin.

We do not have the wide open spaces that you have over there- our trails are heavily used all year round. Walkers- Horses and cycles. Then there are the forestry vehicles that churn up the mud so ruts 2ft deep and filled with mud slurry can be the norm.

And from now on- we expect the trails to be wet- and slippery- and well used. But it is not cycles that damage the trails. Ramblers not wishing to get their boots muddy will widen the trails and horses and tractors will churn it up.

No matter how bad you think the trails have been damaged in the winter-Come the end of spring and it will be like a jungle out there as you fight your way through the brambles and undergrowth and you wish you had better suspension to take the sting out of the hardpacked soil that is punishing you

The attachments show the Tandem on mud- Second is taken around the end of May and shows how the same trail has recovered- And the third is just to show that we do have trees and not just open hills that I normally show.

This is my home trail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sd1xXOcKdk

I go a bit slower and I don't do the section in the last 15 seconds of the movie.

Here is one of the trails I like to ride (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluesdawg/2643625898/in/set-72157605978018270/). There are many other sections of video (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluesdawg/sets/72157605978018270/) from this trail in the set.

Those trees look a lot tougher than my 68 year old bones! I'd pass on that ride.

I do more difficult than in the video and at significantly higher speed. The rider is hardly leaning the bike over on the turns. I'm 69. It's like everything else, you start easy (I started at about 62) and you build up to where it's no big deal. However, if you don't progressively push the envelope (carefully of course), you never get much better. Riding a lot helps as well.

Since June of 2006, I've done 3360 miles in 402 hours just on the mountain bike. I happen to know that as I just checked the last time I rebuilt my fork. I just rebuilt it again:it was way overdue.

You do hit a tree once in a while or hug the ground. A properly designed weight training program keeps you remarkably injury free, but not pain free. A properly designed program also maintains a healthy bunch of fast twitch fibers which are necessary to maintain balance and reaction/reflex speed with age. Check out Younger Next Year for the science.

By the way, I meet other old timers on the trails as well. One who is my age roughly, can ride circles around me. He's raced mountain bikes for many years. He still races and does well.

Al

This is supposedly a guy in his 40s or 50s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8mgFjvt8k8

I watch this and think that there is no way I'd want to go down this trail. No attraction whatsoever.I know that particular trail and it is, in reality, more of a freeride trail than a downhill one. It has some VERY large features that are a bit beyond my cajones to boost. There are stunts on that particular trail that require commitment as there are no 'wuss-out' lines. I wish I was a bit younger and less breakable to feel like attempting those.

My limit so far on gaps is about 20' - - that was the big double near the top of the DH course at Sea Otter this year. But I keep working on things to progress and get better and faster. Bigger stunts I roll up to many times and look 'em over pretty good before I finally attempt to boost them.

By the way, I meet other old timers on the trails as well. One who is my age roughly, can ride circles around me. He's raced mountain bikes for many years. He still races and does well.

Al

Never met any older riders than me on the trails round here. Seems that mountain biking is a sport for the youngsters. Get past 35 and you have had it- according to the youngsters I passed up one of our steep long hills a few years ago.

And I started road riding just over two years ago. That has taken the edge off my reactions for fast downhills- but What is hitting me more is the rock hard trails in the summer. This has meant going up a tyre size- so perhaps that is what is taking the edge off my reactions.

I know that particular trail and it is, in reality, more of a freeride trail than a downhill one. .

It may be, but the part shown on the video appeared to be mild cross country. That said, some of those rises could have been simpler jumps had the rider gone faster and unweighted. I don't do jumps preferring to keep the wheels on the ground.

Some friends went to Whistler in BC this last summer. When they came back one had a broken wrist and the other required shoulder surgery and he was wearing full armour.

Al

Oops, wrong video. I have to admit I didn't watch it through. Thought by the trail entrance it was going to be the Exits by Issaquah. You're right, it's a tame trail in the vid.

BTW Whistler is AWESOME. Especially if you get off A-line and get into the gnarlier trails like Crack Addict, Schleyer, Original Sin, etc. An absolute blast. Go with the younger guys so you're not tempted to wuss out or dog it. :D

I do more difficult than in the video and at significantly higher speed. The rider is hardly leaning the bike over on the turns.

Al
I rode motorcycles off road and there was a saying, "lean over in the tight trees and you'll get cleaned right off the bike".

Al, I'm impressed by what you're doing, where do you ride?

I know he's a kid to you, but I was climbing a local trail with a 57 year old friend when some 20 something guy wanted to chase "the old guy". My friend, an excellent climber, began toying with the young fool. Somewhere around the 9000 foot level I came upon the poor guy barfing in the bushes. I said "Hey, did you see an old guy go by?" Fun stuff.

I rode motorcycles off road and there was a saying, "lean over in the tight trees and you'll get cleaned right off the bike".

Al, I'm impressed by what you're doing, where do you ride?

I know he's a kid to you, but I was climbing a local trail with a 57 year old friend when some 20 something guy wanted to chase "the old guy". My friend, an excellent climber, began toying with the young fool. Somewhere around the 9000 foot level I came upon the poor guy barfing in the bushes. I said "Hey, did you see an old guy go by?" Fun stuff.

How true on getting "cleaned off the bike" if you lean with the bike. Not a good idea if you don't have a burm or something to ride against on a turn. You lean the bike into the turn, and you lean yourself out of the turn. On a real tight turn or at high speed or on rough trail, you should be out of the saddle with all your weight on the outside pedal (same for a road bike). That adds additional down-force on side cleats of the tire. Pushing down on the lower hand-grip (or both) helps the front tire grip better as well.

This is remarkably effective and minimizes your profile so you can squeeze through tightly spaced trees. A lighter bike helps swing the bike lean back and forth for the tight s-curves as does a steeper head-tube angle.

I rode only road motorcycles, so this was foreign to me until I got interested in mountain biking. I doubt the technique would work for motorcycles just because of the huge mass differences, but don't really know.

I kicked started my mountain biking by reading Ned Overend's book and repeatedly watching his excellent video Performance Mountain Biking, the basics and beyond. Being a retired engineer, I always investigate prior art rather than trying reinvent the wheel. Old Ned won five national cross-country championships and won the first world championship in Durango in his late 30's. He's an excellent teacher.

In his book and video, he covers three or four techniques for cornering including counter-steering which I used on the twisties with the motorcycle. The bike-only leaning thing is by far the most effective for most trails unless of course you have a raised "edge" on the outside of the turn.

I ride in two dramatically different areas. I split my time about 50/50 between N Georgia and N Florida (Panama city area). In Florida it's the Pine Log State forest which are relatively soft trails zig-zagging through the pines. We have no real hills, so we make the trails as interesting as possible with lots of tight turns and ride as fast as possible through them.

When I'm in North Ga, I ride the mountains in Georgia (Cohuttas), N Carolina (Like Tsali), and SE Tennessee (like Tanasi/Ocoee). It's all predominantly singletrack.

I love climbs, but I climb relatively slowly compared to a fit younger person. My last ride in the Cohuttas before coming back to FL, I covered 19 miles with two major elevation changes of 1600 ft to 2400 ft and probably half a dozen smaller changes of 300 ft or so and too numerous to count smaller up/downs. That's a typical ride for that particular area. You do get to rest on the down-hills.

About four weeks ago I had a similar experience with a college student at Tsali. I could run away from him on the climbs and stay with him on the down-hills and the levels sections. However, a fit younger person will leave me sitting on a climb. On a long ride, I may keep up with the more fit young as many don't practice good technique and don't know about conserving momentum; something Overend emphasizes in his book. The older you get, the better equipment you need and the more you rely on technique. What's interesting to me is how effective when combined with weight training all that is.

Al

I think we have established that there is a wide range of offroad riding ability and preferences among the BF50+ posters. As for age, it probably isn't a big factor in predicting what kind of offroading an individual would do. Those who ride fast and rough when they are young are more likely to continue to do so than those who keep to the mild stuff, although many riders do take up MTBing after they have reached 50+status.

The person who has influenced my offroad riding the most is a 63 y/o friend who has a room full of trophies from his 15 years of XC MTB racing. He was in his mid 40s when he first rode a MTB, but he had done some motocross racing in his younger days. He still races now, despite his history of back problems including arthritis and a few fused discs. He has an enviable stable of Moots and Yeti bikes with full suspension travel ranging from 4" to 6". He flies through the twistiest and most technical sections at speeds I can't imagine and he climbs like only a rail thin natural climber can do. But he is very uncomfortable riding on roads and only does so as a training technique. He thinks I am crazy for all the road riding in traffic that I do.

How true on getting "cleaned off the bike"


About four weeks ago I had a similar experience with a college student at Tsali. I could run away from him on the climbs and stay with him on the down-hills and the levels sections. However, a fit younger person will leave me sitting on a climb. On a long ride, I may keep up with the more fit young as many don't practice good technique and don't know about conserving momentum; something Overend emphasizes in his book. The older you get, the better equipment you need and the more you rely on technique. What's interesting to me is how effective when combined with weight training all that is.

Al

Experience does count offroad. At our age you have to pace yourself but I cannot remember the last time I walked a hill- or stopped halfway up to take rest. We may be slow but we get there. But I have a friend that will always beat me up the first hill. Second or third and he will drop back to keep me company and the next and he will have to stop to adjust his gears after following me up to see what line I am taking.

And getting cleaned off the bike. I ride Tandem offroad and the pilot takes great delight in not telling me of low branches on the trail. First sign I get is that his helmet is suddenly down on the bars and I have blood on the face---- Or he is pedalling away into the distance as I sit on my butt in 6" of mud.

Here is the trail vid I thought it was. This one will make your toes curl a bit:

YouTube - Insane Mountain Bike Trail

That last video is often called North Shore riding. I only do cross-country or the more traditional mountain biking. Not only is the type of riding different, but the culture of the riders is different as well.

Al

North Shore style or whatever they want to call it, it is fun to watch, but not something I want to try.

To Alcanoe and friends!

Good grief! I've just spent the last hour off this Thanksgiving weekend mesmerized by linking to endless Youtube videos started by this thread. I'm an ex-AMA motorcycle road racer who fears little on a bicycle or motorcycle, but I'm drawing a line at this stuff! (Of course I'm sitting here with a broken shoulder from falling off my tri-bike a few weeks ago!)

Anyway, Hats Off! to all the guys in this thread that can come close to doing this stuff! I love the breadth of the 50+ forum.

TysonB
Cushing, OK

^^ Were you an sportsman road racer or a pro? I'm an ex-AMA flattracker (and later MXer), but strictly sportsman class. I had to make the choice as a youth between going to college or getting my license for Novice Pro. I chose college (a wise move). I race downhill now and boost a lot of (smaller) stunts because it is the form of mountain biking that lets me recapture the adrenaline rush of motorcyle racing.

quote=alconoe]That last video is often called North Shore riding.[/quote]pfft! That's just a PNW trail - - Northshore is much more gnar ;).

I would say that it looks a lot like places I have ridden and it didn't look like he was going all that fast, but it is hard to tell from the video (video can be deceiving both for the speed and the steepness). The trail actually looked pretty friendly for tight single track because of the lack of big rocks and logs.

I will also say that I spend a lot more time getting to the top to do that than riding down and would walk a lot of that going up :)

Check out this trailer for a film about downhill cycling in Ireland.

http://vimeo.com/2333560

^^ Pretty courses. I'd like to race over there sometime.

Here is my 'home' course of Beacon Hill in Spokane - - the course I ride and train on a lot. Funny thing: the guy at the front of the vid who endos on the step-up jump was ME. Haha! Didn't know I was a YouTube crash-and-burn star.

YouTube - Beacon Blowout Downhill Race